When a game provides so much fodder for legitimate complaint and yet it continues over the addition of a feature that many would value in their game of choice, negativity for the sake of it becomes quite obvious.
Here are some facts. More than a quarter million people signed up for the forums, more than 67,000 accounts purchased, more than two years in persistence and right now there are only 220 people online per Steamcharts data.
You missed the fact Steam isn't the main source of players for SotA, nevermind the only one, and as such their population numbers aren't representative of the overall situation, and thus aren't as telling as you and others think they are.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Here are some facts. More than a quarter million people signed up for the forums, more than 67,000 accounts purchased, more than two years in persistence and right now there are only 220 people online per Steamcharts data.
You missed the fact Steam isn't the main source of players for SotA, nevermind the only one, and as such their population numbers aren't representative of the overall situation, and thus aren't as telling as you and others think they are.
People keep saying this but no one can ever produce any proof that it's true. Steam numbers are what they are. There is no reason to just take their dev words for it that things are significantly different behind the curtain
They have a API that could show people this information, but they hide it from us. You can see in their forms there are only 30 or so people there plus bots and lurkers and the same people are always there. Just like the Steamcharts, it's always around the same number of people logged in.
When they do a big event or telethon livestream you can see the twitch numbers and viewers are always 300-400 average. Sometimes 450.
Steam is probably more like 90% of all players since most of the original backers have already left and all that's left are people that bought the game from Steam anyways.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) It shows only SotA accounts (84 active ATM), player number is lower - possibly significantly lower;
2) Every piece of statistics and data available indicates that the majority of active SotA players uses Steam, plus I don't remember devs ever trying to deny that;
3) The fact that Portalarium hides total numbers as a snake hides it's legs, speaks volumes;
4) During last two days SotA's "Steam average in last 30 days" dropped from 147 to 145, continuing it's steady decline. Just do the math
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One thing that is very "telling" is the devs aren't saying what the actual numbers are.
Clearly nothing to be proud of for sure.
Is it telling, in and of itself?
Some of the most successful MMORPG providers don't provide the actual numbers. I think it is rather more par for the course.
However, I would be inclined to think in the case of SotA that the number of players is fairly low, though clearly not as low as Steam only numbers suggest.
That the game has somewhat of a niche appeal to begin with is part of that, but a good deal of it stems from the many issues still ongoing with the game.
One thing that is very "telling" is the devs aren't saying what the actual numbers are.
Clearly nothing to be proud of for sure.
Is it telling, in and of itself?
Some of the most successful MMORPG providers don't provide the actual numbers. I think it is rather more par for the course.
However, I would be inclined to think in the case of SotA that the number of players is fairly low, though clearly not as low as Steam only numbers suggest.
That the game has somewhat of a niche appeal to begin with is part of that, but a good deal of it stems from the many issues still ongoing with the game.
It is extremely telling.
The game has been losing players since final wipe when it began persistence more than two full years ago. Since commercial launch just five months ago it's been hemorrhaging players, and it's undeniable.
One of the Portalarium executives, and the company's sole Community Manager was canned during the completely normal post-launch staff reductions right after launch. Yeah, that's normal for a healthy growing community. /s
Here are some facts. More than a quarter million people signed up for the forums, more than 67,000 accounts purchased, more than two years in persistence and right now there are only 220 people online per Steamcharts data.
People keep saying this but no one can ever produce any proof that it's true. Steam numbers are what they are. There is no reason to just take their dev words for it that things are significantly different behind the curtain
They have a API that could show people this information, but they hide it from us. You can see in their forms there are only 30 or so people there plus bots and lurkers and the same people are always there. Just like the Steamcharts, it's always around the same number of people logged in.
When they do a big event or telethon livestream you can see the twitch numbers and viewers are always 300-400 average. Sometimes 450.
Steam is probably more like 90% of all players since most of the original backers have already left and all that's left are people that bought the game from Steam anyways.
It is rather obvious, for a couple of reasons.
The game client was first released outside of Steam, making it the only choice available for quite some time. As such, the most ardent of SotA's supporters already had the game installed by the time Steam rolled around, so they wouldn't show in Steam numbers.
Also, prospective players would be inclined to download the client from Portalarium's site rather than Steam, to take advantage of the perpetual free trial on there, so they could explore the game at their leisure without cost to see if they would want to buy into it. Seeing as they would have already downloaded the client it is quite possible they may simply stick with it if they do wish to continue.
Game companies that don't provide detailed numbers regarding their player population aren't exactly rare, so that in itself is rather a moot point.
Personally, I haven't bothered watching any of their livestream telethons but play regardless. I have no idea what percentage of active players do watch them, so while the number of viewers is interesting to know it can't be used as a measure of active population.
Steam is 90% of the players... Most of the original backers left... After actually providing numbers I can accept as credible regarding telethon viewers, you immediately follow up with sensationalistic, baseless dross. Disappointing.
1) It shows only SotA accounts (84 active ATM), player number is lower - possibly significantly lower;
2) Every piece of statistics and data available indicates that the majority of active SotA players uses Steam, plus I don't remember devs ever trying to deny that;
3) The fact that Portalarium hides total numbers as a snake hides it's legs, speaks volumes;
4) During last two days SotA's "Steam average in last 30 days" dropped from 147 to 145, continuing it's steady decline. Just do the math
Your first point is incontestable, but irrelevant in terms of overall SotA population.
Your third point shows your second to be rubbish. The only available date is for a platform released after the one that would be used by their most ardent followers, and anyone wishing to try out the free trial mode of their stand alone client. Releasing accurate player data isn't so common in this industry that the absence of it is telling is some way.
Given that Steam numbers aren't representative of the overall player base, your fourth point that I will assume is accurate is also irrelevant.
You missed the fact Steam isn't the main source of players for SotA, nevermind the only one, and as such their population numbers aren't representative of the overall situation, and thus aren't as telling as you and others think they are.
Inb4 the, "Only a fraction of the player base is on Steam" excuse. More smoke and mirrors right out of the SotA cult's playbook.
Took longer than expected. Less white-knights to hand out cult propaganda.
It is simply a recognition of the facts, when it comes to where the lion's share of the population is, based on how the game was developed.
If it was released only on Steam, or the existing population was forced to migrate there by the closing of the original client when the Steam one was released, then the numbers there would be as telling as many imagine them to be. This isn't the case, so they aren't.
Kyleran's contention that Steam trends are indicative of the overall trend is possible, but hardly safe to assume. The most ardent of fans and early adopters make up a much larger percentage of the population on the stand alone client, so trends on one may not be indicative to the other.
The only thing safe to say about the population of SotA is that Portalarium wishes that it be much, much larger than it is, regardless of which client they played on.
You missed the fact Steam isn't the main source of players for SotA, nevermind the only one, and as such their population numbers aren't representative of the overall situation, and thus aren't as telling as you and others think they are.
Inb4 the, "Only a fraction of the player base is on Steam" excuse. More smoke and mirrors right out of the SotA cult's playbook.
Took longer than expected. Less white-knights to hand out cult propaganda.
It is simply a recognition of the facts, when it comes to where the lion's share of the population is, based on how the game was developed.
If it was released only on Steam, or the existing population was forced to migrate there by the closing of the original client when the Steam one was released, then the numbers there would be as telling as many imagine them to be. This isn't the case, so they aren't.
Kyleran's contention that Steam trends are indicative of the overall trend is possible, but hardly safe to assume. The most ardent of fans and early adopters make up a much larger percentage of the population on the stand alone client, so trends on one may not be indicative to the other.
The only thing safe to say about the population of SotA is that Portalarium wishes that it be much, much larger than it is, regardless of which client they played on.
The Lions share of the population no longer logs in. The remaining accounts have been traded so many times who even knows if there really are any original backers even there at all.
There was a time when using the client was in your best interest because it couldn't be traded if it was Steam linked. No one trades the accounts anymore, you hardly ever even see one for sale. People just quit.
Steam is where the community pushes people to go and make positive reviews. Over the years, even the devs have asked for Steam reviews. All indicators point to Steam numbers being the most accurate.
Here are some facts. More than a quarter million people signed up for the forums, more than 67,000 accounts purchased, more than two years in persistence and right now there are only 220 people online per Steamcharts data.
This is all anyone needs to know about SotA. Good job.
Inb4 the, "Only a fraction of the player base is on Steam" excuse. More smoke and mirrors right out of the SotA cult's playbook.
Fact, Steam is not the primary launcher and only reflects a fraction of the 67,000 accounts.
Here are some facts. More than a quarter million people signed up for the forums, more than 67,000 accounts purchased, more than two years in persistence and right now there are only 220 people online per Steamcharts data.
This is all anyone needs to know about SotA. Good job.
Inb4 the, "Only a fraction of the player base is on Steam" excuse. More smoke and mirrors right out of the SotA cult's playbook.
Fact, Steam is not the primary launcher and only reflects a fraction of the 67,000 accounts.
Fact, you shared an opinion.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Here's a nice idea, why doesn't someone close to Portalarium, a RMT whale perhaps, just tell them to put the numbers for all the different online modes on the main page of the forums? The hook should be simple enough, they only have three online modes to show.
If they still refuse is it because they are afraid people will learn the truth about population numbers? Not just the players, but the board of directors, investors, and maybe creditors? Why is stating how many people are playing a MMO so scary for them?
Speaking of facts (and "facts"), SotA's average number of players accounts per Steam in last 30 days is already down to 142, continuing it's steady fall. To remind you, it dropped from 147 three days ago to 145 yesterday - thus it's falling much quicker than I expected.
They had a brief "peak" of ~300(!) in April, after launch(!!). It's interesting to compare available numbers with Darkstarr's famos quote:
...at a modest number, we only need about 50k people per month active users to be profitable and that's a pretty low number considering that the fan base for a Richard Garriott Ultima game is in the millions.
He speaks of millions, 50k players is "prety low number"...So what do you think will happen in the end? No amount of spin and bullshit can change reality.
Speaking of facts (and "facts"), SotA's average number of players accounts per Steam in last 30 days is already down to 142, continuing it's steady fall. To remind you, it dropped from 147 three days ago to 145 yesterday - thus it's falling much quicker than I expected.
They had a brief "peak" of ~300(!) in April, after launch(!!). It's interesting to compare available numbers with Darkstarr's famos quote:
...at a modest number, we only need about 50k people per month active users to be profitable and that's a pretty low number considering that the fan base for a Richard Garriott Ultima game is in the millions.
He speaks of millions, 50k players is "prety low number"...So what do you think will happen in the end? No amount of spin and bullshit can change reality.
Amen to that. **No amount of spin and bullshit can change reality.**
1) It shows only SotA accounts (84 active ATM), player number is lower - possibly significantly lower;
2) Every piece of statistics and data available indicates that the majority of active SotA players uses Steam, plus I don't remember devs ever trying to deny that;
3) The fact that Portalarium hides total numbers as a snake hides it's legs, speaks volumes;
4) During last two days SotA's "Steam average in last 30 days" dropped from 147 to 145, continuing it's steady decline. Just do the math
Your first point is incontestable, but irrelevant in terms of overall SotA population.
Your third point shows your second to be rubbish. The only available date is for a platform released after the one that would be used by their most ardent followers, and anyone wishing to try out the free trial mode of their stand alone client. Releasing accurate player data isn't so common in this industry that the absence of it is telling is some way.
Given that Steam numbers aren't representative of the overall player base, your fourth point that I will assume is accurate is also irrelevant.
Why don't you send an email to Portalarium and ask them if you can get the numbers and prove us that, as you said, the game is healthy in term of player base. I doubt you'll get something, but still. Until you or anyone else get the numbers, I'll trust their annual report saying the game is in financial problem due to the LACK of players. No players = No money
It's easy to be a naysayer without any links to prove your points.
Being a naysayer with links is a challenge because there is nothing to prove your points.
Portalarium hides total numbers and you don't wonder why ? Well, it's because if they release the total number of their players, the situation will get worse and nobody is going to buy their product as the game will be tagged as empty and dead. So, yes , they re doing the right thing in term of survival state.
Anyone who doesn't agree with this is not aware of anything concerning Portalarium.
You missed the fact Steam isn't the main source of players for SotA, nevermind the only one, and as such their population numbers aren't representative of the overall situation, and thus aren't as telling as you and others think they are.
Inb4 the, "Only a fraction of the player base is on Steam" excuse. More smoke and mirrors right out of the SotA cult's playbook.
Took longer than expected. Less white-knights to hand out cult propaganda.
It is simply a recognition of the facts, when it comes to where the lion's share of the population is, based on how the game was developed.
If it was released only on Steam, or the existing population was forced to migrate there by the closing of the original client when the Steam one was released, then the numbers there would be as telling as many imagine them to be. This isn't the case, so they aren't.
Kyleran's contention that Steam trends are indicative of the overall trend is possible, but hardly safe to assume. The most ardent of fans and early adopters make up a much larger percentage of the population on the stand alone client, so trends on one may not be indicative to the other.
The only thing safe to say about the population of SotA is that Portalarium wishes that it be much, much larger than it is, regardless of which client they played on.
The Lions share of the population no longer logs in. The remaining accounts have been traded so many times who even knows if there really are any original backers even there at all.
There was a time when using the client was in your best interest because it couldn't be traded if it was Steam linked. No one trades the accounts anymore, you hardly ever even see one for sale. People just quit.
Steam is where the community pushes people to go and make positive reviews. Over the years, even the devs have asked for Steam reviews. All indicators point to Steam numbers being the most accurate.
Baseless assumptions are baseless. Steam numbers are accurate, when it comes to those that play through Steam. They are meaningless in terms of over population.
Comments
You missed the fact Steam isn't the main source of players for SotA, nevermind the only one, and as such their population numbers aren't representative of the overall situation, and thus aren't as telling as you and others think they are.
Clearly nothing to be proud of for sure.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You missed the fact Steam isn't the main source of players for SotA, nevermind the only one, and as such their population numbers aren't representative of the overall situation, and thus aren't as telling as you and others think they are.
People keep saying this but no one can ever produce any proof that it's true. Steam numbers are what they are. There is no reason to just take their dev words for it that things are significantly different behind the curtain
They have a API that could show people this information, but they hide it from us. You can see in their forms there are only 30 or so people there plus bots and lurkers and the same people are always there. Just like the Steamcharts, it's always around the same number of people logged in.
When they do a big event or telethon livestream you can see the twitch numbers and viewers are always 300-400 average. Sometimes 450.
Steam is probably more like 90% of all players since most of the original backers have already left and all that's left are people that bought the game from Steam anyways.
Fairly safe bet to assume the non Steam logins are going in the same direction, downwards.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) It shows only SotA accounts (84 active ATM), player number is lower - possibly significantly lower;
2) Every piece of statistics and data available indicates that the majority of active SotA players uses Steam, plus I don't remember devs ever trying to deny that;
3) The fact that Portalarium hides total numbers as a snake hides it's legs, speaks volumes;
4) During last two days SotA's "Steam average in last 30 days" dropped from 147 to 145, continuing it's steady decline. Just do the math
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The game has been losing players since final wipe when it began persistence more than two full years ago. Since commercial launch just five months ago it's been hemorrhaging players, and it's undeniable.
One of the Portalarium executives, and the company's sole Community Manager was canned during the completely normal post-launch staff reductions right after launch. Yeah, that's normal for a healthy growing community. /s
Also, prospective players would be inclined to download the client from Portalarium's site rather than Steam, to take advantage of the perpetual free trial on there, so they could explore the game at their leisure without cost to see if they would want to buy into it. Seeing as they would have already downloaded the client it is quite possible they may simply stick with it if they do wish to continue.
Game companies that don't provide detailed numbers regarding their player population aren't exactly rare, so that in itself is rather a moot point.
Personally, I haven't bothered watching any of their livestream telethons but play regardless. I have no idea what percentage of active players do watch them, so while the number of viewers is interesting to know it can't be used as a measure of active population.
Steam is 90% of the players... Most of the original backers left... After actually providing numbers I can accept as credible regarding telethon viewers, you immediately follow up with sensationalistic, baseless dross. Disappointing.
Kyleran's contention that Steam trends are indicative of the overall trend is possible, but hardly safe to assume. The most ardent of fans and early adopters make up a much larger percentage of the population on the stand alone client, so trends on one may not be indicative to the other.
The only thing safe to say about the population of SotA is that Portalarium wishes that it be much, much larger than it is, regardless of which client they played on.
There was a time when using the client was in your best interest because it couldn't be traded if it was Steam linked. No one trades the accounts anymore, you hardly ever even see one for sale. People just quit.
Steam is where the community pushes people to go and make positive reviews. Over the years, even the devs have asked for Steam reviews. All indicators point to Steam numbers being the most accurate.
Source?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Fact, Steam is not the primary launcher and only reflects a fraction of the 67,000 accounts.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
If they still refuse is it because they are afraid people will learn the truth about population numbers? Not just the players, but the board of directors, investors, and maybe creditors? Why is stating how many people are playing a MMO so scary for them?
They had a brief "peak" of ~300(!) in April, after launch(!!). It's interesting to compare available numbers with Darkstarr's famos quote:He speaks of millions, 50k players is "prety low number"...So what do you think will happen in the end? No amount of spin and bullshit can change reality.
Why don't you send an email to Portalarium and ask them if you can get the numbers and prove us that, as you said, the game is healthy in term of player base.
I doubt you'll get something, but still. Until you or anyone else get the numbers, I'll trust their annual report saying the game is in financial problem due to the LACK of players.
No players = No money
It's easy to be a naysayer without any links to prove your points.
Being a naysayer with links is a challenge because there is nothing to prove your points.
Portalarium hides total numbers and you don't wonder why ? Well, it's because if they release the total number of their players, the situation will get worse and nobody is going to buy their product as the game will be tagged as empty and dead.
So, yes , they re doing the right thing in term of survival state.
Anyone who doesn't agree with this is not aware of anything concerning Portalarium.