Are there any MMOs with Dungeons that don't require YouTube study?

SeriphinX

I get that there is a time and place to learn things ahead of time.  But sometimes I want to just pick up and play.  I don't want to login..think 'hmm I'd love to do some dungeons with people...I think I will!...let me log back out and go watch Youtube for this'..then 2 hours later going in and hoping you don't eff up enough to get kicked.  

I just want an mmo with dungeon diving content that is more pick up and play and doesn't require Udemy before hand to be successful.  Yeah, I'm referencing one mmo in particular that expects this type of process.  Just looking to get out of that rat race and just play.

Is there such a thing?

Cazriel

Wish there was.  Along with that goes the assumption that even if you've never run a dungeon before you're supposed to know exactly what to do.  IMHO, this is one bar that keeps people from enjoying dungeons more broadly. 

Kahrek

I think you might have better luck finding a guild like that. I remember my Vanilla WoW guild, Agents of the Kirin-Tor. We were strictly forbidden from using any kind of cheat for dungeons or raiding.

Figuring out C'Thun(sp) was so annying and fun

Try to find a guild that fits the bill instead of an MMO. Technically any dungeon can be discovered as you go along, you just need people with the same mindset as you.

Cheers!

TheScavenger

Kahrek said:

I think you might have better luck finding a guild like that. I remember my Vanilla WoW guild, Agents of the Kirin-Tor. We were strictly forbidden from using any kind of cheat for dungeons or raiding.

Figuring out C'Thun(sp) was so annying and fun

Try to find a guild that fits the bill instead of an MMO. Technically any dungeon can be discovered as you go along, you just need people with the same mindset as you.

Cheers!

Finding a guild like that (at least in WoW) would be harder than finding a grain of sand in a haystack

I'm sure there is that one guild on some server that is like that. But...you'd have better luck and a much easier time finding an MMO where it isn't a requirement lol.

Sadly however, I think most MMO playerbases are going the way of "research or /kick". When the info should be IN THE GAME

danwest58

This is what happens when you have a LFD/DF tool in MMORPGS and dungeons that are designed for 20 minute runs.   The Random groups dont give a rats ass about you, expects you to know everything because you are not their friend you are their to make this run quick and easy then go away.     So this is why you get this type of crap.   

During Vanilla and TBC players like me and the guilds I ran we would teach players how to do the boss fight and run the dungeons.  We didnt expect them to watch YouTube not because it didnt exist, but more because it was enjoyable to work as a team and dungeons were not 20 minute streamline affairs.   Yep the EPEEN guilds expected you to know this stuff but how many of them guilds were around 1 to 5 on a server.  Yet you had 50 to 100 other very fun very active guilds that people joined and had fun.   

So until people who expect MMORPGS to be casual friendly give up that idea and allow MMORPGS to be something where the journey matters, the journey will take time no instant queues, no 20 minute runs, no rushing to end game, and you are responsible for finding friends to run content.  Then you will have the drama of go watch the video before you run the dungeon or people are going to treat you like an ass hole because they never again are going to see you.   So they dont CARE about you.   If you are forced to spend time creating groups just to do content these people wouldnt be as problematic as they are because either A they will be in a guild that fix them.  Or B they will have to be more personable because it means the difference between running the content or not.  

Was everything perfect without instant Queues and streamlined dungeons.  Hell no.  However the community was overall better because you had people like me playing who were extremely active helping people out.   Today I have not played but 2 or 3 months of an MMORPG since spring of 2017.   Because I would rather run content with friends and guilds today are, "Get up off your ass stop asking to forum a dungeon group and just queue for the dungeon for fuck sake."  Yep been told that.   So why be in a guild or make friends,  Hell Why play an MMORPG to play with other people just to press a button to join a group.     Nope not for me right now.  Looking forward to Ashes, CU, Pantheon and some Classic WOW because that is the style game I want to play.  

SeriphinX

And yeah there is an ingame guide on these...and I look at it.   But where in any other game do you really need to do this?  I didn't do it in Skyrim...didn't really do it in Everquest...Ultima Online...I just hate now that this is the common process...study all the things in dungeons and raids from videos...and implement all the known things from said videos.   That's boring and I just simply don't do it.  Haven't had to do it in Destiny either, which is what I mostly play now.  

Just looking for a sword and board version of Destiny lol

danwest58

TheScavenger said:

Kahrek said:

I think you might have better luck finding a guild like that. I remember my Vanilla WoW guild, Agents of the Kirin-Tor. We were strictly forbidden from using any kind of cheat for dungeons or raiding.

Figuring out C'Thun(sp) was so annying and fun

Try to find a guild that fits the bill instead of an MMO. Technically any dungeon can be discovered as you go along, you just need people with the same mindset as you.

Cheers!

Finding a guild like that (at least in WoW) would be harder than finding a grain of sand in a haystack

I'm sure there is that one guild on some server that is like that. But...you'd have better luck and a much easier time finding an MMO where it isn't a requirement lol.

Sadly however, I think most MMO playerbases are going the way of "research or /kick". When the info should be IN THE GAME

I agree almost with everything said here.   The info shouldnt be in the game, the games shouldnt be streamlined for 20 minute dungeon runs with instance queues.  Get rid of that go back to the old model of MMORPG with no queues and dungeons that take time to do and require teamwork and the problem will solve itself.  Then I would run a guild again that works with players that want to learn how to play the content.   If you are willing to play your role you are golden, if you want to be a prot warrior who where int an spi gear yep nope I will not play with you.  (Yes there was a warrior during vanilla named Hawkeye from Khadgar who did this shit.)   

Scorchien

go play DDO , and either get a couple friends to go with you or run the solo versions .. Dont look at any youtubes ..  Very fun experience ..

 Also ive been  playing UO for 20 years Never once watched a youtube vid on there dungeons , just go in explore learn and die

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danwest58

SeriphinX said:

And yeah there is an ingame guide on these...and I look at it.   But where in any other game do you really need to do this?  I didn't do it in Skyrim...didn't really do it in Everquest...Ultima Online...I just hate now that this is the common process...study all the things in dungeons and raids from videos...and implement all the known things from said videos.   That's boring and I just simply don't do it.  Haven't had to do it in Destiny either, which is what I mostly play now.  

Just looking for a sword and board version of Destiny lol

Honestly they dont need to be in the games when you have players that are willing to teach other players the content.   Hell when I played UO, SWG, Vanilla and TBC you learned by doing and sometimes that required hours of dying.  The problem is today's player base just does not accept that for low end content like dungeons.   That use to be common back 10 years ago.  Now everyone wants quick easy content because they dont want to spend their time learning.   

If players played MMORPGS like they were a Journey not as a 2 months raiding treadmill like they are today.   Players wouldnt be like I need to get to max level in 1 week, week 2 I need to run shit 50 times to get all my gear, week 3 start raiding.    Thats what these games devolved into.  Because of that mentality they expect you to just know the content on your own.   

danwest58

MisterZebub said:

SeriphinX said:

I get that there is a time and place to learn things ahead of time.  But sometimes I want to just pick up and play.  I don't want to login..think 'hmm I'd love to do some dungeons with people...I think I will!...let me log back out and go watch Youtube for this'..then 2 hours later going in and hoping you don't eff up enough to get kicked.  

I just want an mmo with dungeon diving content that is more pick up and play and doesn't require Udemy before hand to be successful.  Yeah, I'm referencing one mmo in particular that expects this type of process.  Just looking to get out of that rat race and just play.

Is there such a thing?

Sure there are. All of them. Just do it the old fashioned way, via trial and error. Run the dungeon, wipe, figure out what you did wrong, repeat until you triumph. I swear these speed running twat players have sucked all the fun of what dungeons are supposed to be about. Watching a video on youtube until you're word perfect is not a fucking challenge.

Yep.  Its because the games are designed like a treadmill now.  No one wants to enjoy the Journey.   Jump on run 100 mph for 4 weeks get off jump on the next treadmill do exactly the same thing.   

Like I said there are few players like me left playing MMORPGS.  Hell I am not even playing because I dont find it fun running dungeons daily to get X amount of tokens to buy all my gear just to raid.  Dungeons are too streamlined and I would rather run on a real treadmill and lose another 50lbs.

SeriphinX

Recently started transitioning back to table top rpg'ing (D&D5e) just for the camaraderie, hilarity, and not having to study before hand.  The surprise of what was going to happen was part of the fun.  But you cant easily play a lot, games have to be set up weeks in advance.  I got my eyes on Pantheon eventually but its a long ways off.  I'll look in Vermintide.  May even re-up on UO.  Thanks for the replies. 

Mendel

I'm not sure that it's a function of the game that causes this.  I think it is the community.  Players are intolerant of others who do not 'know' the encounter/camp/dungeon/raid, and there's little incentive to teach others.  Teaching takes away from our own accomplishments/play time/etc.  I just don't see people becoming more friendly and tolerant.  If anything, people are becoming more and more self-centered.  It may be a society-level trend that's showing up in games.

SeriphinX

Mendel said:

I'm not sure that it's a function of the game that causes this.  I think it is the community.  Players are intolerant of others who do not 'know' the encounter/camp/dungeon/raid, and there's little incentive to teach others.  Teaching takes away from our own accomplishments/play time/etc.  I just don't see people becoming more friendly and tolerant.  If anything, people are becoming more and more self-centered.  It may be a society-level trend that's showing up in games.

Well I'm not even asking to be taught.  No one taught me the strikes and raids in Destiny, it just seems more pick up and play, and I went in them.  No one really taught me the storm giant city in EQ, we just went and played it out.  I think its time MMOs adopted this and created ways for Dungeons to be this way as well....as an alternative, not a replacement.  I understand people like games like WOW so I'm not crapping on that in any way. 

I guess with WoW its due to all the introduced mechanics that go on.  There are some in games like Destiny but anyone can see and know whats going on almost instantly, feeling useful. 

Basically I need someone to make a fantasy realm Destiny lol

k61977

Pretty sure this falls under WoW for me.  I will not look at anything before hand, it ruins the experience for me.  I am usually a tank so I set the pace, I take a second to look at the boss strats before running into a boss, ask others in the group that might have done it if a certain mob should be targeted first.  Even with raids I will not watch anything, I want to see it for myself.  I will listen to others that have done it and will even ask for advice, but I am not ruining my enjoyment of seeing something for the first time by watching others do it.  Overall it all comes down to just paying attention, if you see something once in a fight you should know if it is coming again and what to do that second time.

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danwest58

Here is a video of exactly what I mean.  

This is why modern MMORPGS are not fun.

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danwest58

Mendel said:

I'm not sure that it's a function of the game that causes this.  I think it is the community.  Players are intolerant of others who do not 'know' the encounter/camp/dungeon/raid, and there's little incentive to teach others.  Teaching takes away from our own accomplishments/play time/etc.  I just don't see people becoming more friendly and tolerant.  If anything, people are becoming more and more self-centered.  It may be a society-level trend that's showing up in games.

Nope.   It 100% the fault of these games not of players who are intolerant.  Watch my video above.  It explains why todays MMORPGS suck and why people Pre WOW were much better and communities of players were way better.   Its because shit took time and you were not a one man god army.  You needed to play with other people or you didnt go anywhere.   

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Xiaoki

First, people would complain that MMOs are too easy.

Now, people are complaining that MMOs are too complicated that they need to watch Youtube videos and read guides to understand whats going on.

Also, in WoW BFA there are several difficult bosses that a mistake from one person can cause a wipe. Some people will actually say "Ive never done this before, what do I need to know?" and people will have no problem at all typing up the basics of the fight.

But, the people who dont know the fights are not willing to admit it, even when its asked "Does everyone know this fight?"

Mendel

danwest58 said:

Mendel said:

I'm not sure that it's a function of the game that causes this.  I think it is the community.  Players are intolerant of others who do not 'know' the encounter/camp/dungeon/raid, and there's little incentive to teach others.  Teaching takes away from our own accomplishments/play time/etc.  I just don't see people becoming more friendly and tolerant.  If anything, people are becoming more and more self-centered.  It may be a society-level trend that's showing up in games.

Nope.   It 100% the fault of these games not of players who are intolerant.  Watch my video above.  It explains why todays MMORPGS suck and why people Pre WOW were much better and communities of players were way better.   Its because shit took time and you were not a one man god army.  You needed to play with other people or you didnt go anywhere.   

What exact function or feature of a game requires you to know the strategy of a raid in order to group?  Even if you are a one man army, many raids still require a couple of groups of players to complete them.  I'd really like to know where that is coded and how.

The game doesn't put peer pressure on you, or call you names if you are visiting a specific raid for the first time.  The game doesn't automatically boot you from the group if you make a mistake.  Everyone has fat-fingered the keyboard and cast the wrong spell at the wrong time.

It doesn't matter how much time you play, people are still the ones behind the intolerance.  

Nebless

Dungeons & Dragons Online.  Especially if you've started playing PnP D&D, closest thing you'll find to it.

While there are some HARD dungeons, they're at the end game area.  All the rest, just take the quest, go in and have fun.  No YouTube required.

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Octagon7711

SeriphinX said:

And yeah there is an ingame guide on these...and I look at it.   But where in any other game do you really need to do this?  I didn't do it in Skyrim...didn't really do it in Everquest...Ultima Online...I just hate now that this is the common process...study all the things in dungeons and raids from videos...and implement all the known things from said videos.   That's boring and I just simply don't do it.  Haven't had to do it in Destiny either, which is what I mostly play now.  

Just looking for a sword and board version of Destiny lol

I didn't do it on Skyrim either at first but after I had gone through a lot of it, I started watching videos and they showed me all the interesting things I had missed and some good questing add-ons.

As to wanting to play a certain way you would have to search guilds until you found one with the same playstyle as yours or get a group of friends together.  Random groups seldom delivery anything special, it's just rush through stuff as fast as you can most of the time.  I once joined a guild looking for people who didn't want to be in a guild but did want the bonuses players get from just being in one.