If you don't like watching videos to clear endgame raids/dungeons don't you ever play FFXIV at endgame it doesn't matter how skillful you are or how smart you are the game design is stupid punishing if you don't do certain move or action as a group you wipe some fights even if one member hasn't seen video and messes up everyone dies. Game is easy as shit so they put stupid shit in it to look hard.
Our guild in ESO is specifically designed for people to learn content and we do not want or require people to worry about videos or guides. The journey is the goal.
I think its about finding like-minded people in the game you want to play. I have watched zero videos on ESO and have a majority of the dungeons (including vets) completed. I prefer to learn it the old fashioned way and thankfully found people who let me.
There is a huge difference in ESO between guild/friends groups and PUGs. Speed running asshattery is as bad in ESO PUGs as in any other MMO.
This is actually where level scaling hurts the game. At launch if you were PUGging Banished Cells you were likely running it with 3 others in the level 10-15 range with a roughly equal knowledge of the game, mechanics and dungeon.
These days you're likely to run it with a mix of players anywhere from level 10 to CP780 doing it for their random of the day or because it's one of the undaunted pledges. The CP780 people have run Banished Cells 100 times before and are there just for the reward and some of them - not all, mind you - tend to be impatient. They should actually have an option to run it solo and still get the rewards. That might stop a lot of the nonsense since a lot of players could solo it.
Queuing for PUGs in ESO requires a thick skin and being adaptable enough to run it with DPS pretend queuing as tanks or healers.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I've always found Gw2's dungeons to be pretty straightforward, especially the fractals. Move from point to point, kill/skip everything on your path, do an objective (kill a boss, capture a point, etc etc) get rewarded.
Thing is, Gw2 do not support their dungeons outside of Fractals of the Mists which is sort of a mini-dungeons with some fractured lore and shit. I don't know it's weird. I used to farm a lot of dungeons at launch, now it's still farmable and profitable but it was better when they were actively supporting and developing them.
Truth be told, outside of max difficulty instances, is it really so study intensive these days? Apart from the Tank role(which will ALWAYS have this flaw), I don't believe it is. A lot of content can be played as a healer by just healing properly and paying attention to the environment. For example ; but I do not know how the max difficulty plays(honestly? too much effort for too little reward).
These days most MMO have brought in some raid-like mechanics into many regular dungeons. Things like knowing that a certain boss will do some super powerful AOE blast when he starts acting a certain way but if you hide behind some columns in that room the AOE won't hurt you, or that when 4 adds chain a random player to the ground you need to kill just one of those adds to break the chains. That's the kind of stuff you wouldn't know to do unless you've been there before.
ESO is full of those mechanics in dungeons that become available at level 45. Although that's fairly recent and a lot of those dungeons with mechanics you need to know were available at level 10 until not long ago.
It's not uber tricky stuff but it is stuff you need to know how to deal with and it's not just the tank who needs to know it - everyone does.
They can still be done without YT research but that requires that at least one party member is civilized enough to ask if everyone knows the fight and explain it if someone doesn't when you come up to one of those.
The simple tank and spank dungeons are going the way of the dodo.
An example of one of those dungeons I mentioned above that used to be available at level 10 in ESO:
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
LFR and easy mode dungeon levels ruined WoW for me. I was never top tier raiding but not to far behind in content. Just knowing the fight tactics was not enough before. It required a lot of prep not just queue for a raid with quest greens and blues and clear a few bosses. I remember trying to kill BWL bosses for days on each boss. I miss those days.
I felt this the worst with FFXIV. That whole community seems YouTube-obsessed with dungeon and raid runs. The players who do the guides are community celebrities. The dungeons are so mechanic-intensive that one player not doing something correctly will often cause a wipe, even on simpler daily content. It makes it pretty stressful on a newer player or a first-run player. I know I would always watch a video before going in, despite that being pretty much the opposite of fun and taking away the excitement and exploration aspect of it.
WoW is like this as well, but I feel to a lesser extent. The mechanics for just your general or heroic dungeons can often be cleared even with a failed mechanic or two and you can use mods to warn you of mechanics, should you choose to use them.
I always entered into raids clueless. People asking me if I had watched some video "yeah mate it's all sweet". Had no idea what was going on. But then only raided years back, didn't seem as much crap happening. Found it way more fun that way. Which naturally, raided the same boss long enough. Turned way too boring.
Of course people are way too impatient and boring now. All about end game, gearing up. Quitting the game cause they have everything. They never seem to really enjoy themselves along the way.
You went from first to top level without needing a guide, but that's not enough now you want all end game content to be so simplistic it is immediately obvious what to do?
Truth be told, outside of max difficulty instances, is it really so study intensive these days? Apart from the Tank role(which will ALWAYS have this flaw), I don't believe it is. A lot of content can be played as a healer by just healing properly and paying attention to the environment. For example ; but I do not know how the max difficulty plays(honestly? too much effort for too little reward).
FF14 can be quite unforgiving in its mechanics in dungeons, even during levelling.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I mean, just don't watch videos. I could give a damn what anyone else thinks I should be doing; I enjoy learning content first-hand and videos kill any sense of surprise or wonder.....fuck that.
I get that there is a time and place to learn things ahead of time. But sometimes I want to just pick up and play. I don't want to login..think 'hmm I'd love to do some dungeons with people...I think I will!...let me log back out and go watch Youtube for this'..then 2 hours later going in and hoping you don't eff up enough to get kicked.
I just want an mmo with dungeon diving content that is more pick up and play and doesn't require Udemy before hand to be successful. Yeah, I'm referencing one mmo in particular that expects this type of process. Just looking to get out of that rat race and just play.
Is there such a thing?
Every MMO that has dungeons fits, none of them require youtube study before hand.
A lot of players, PuGs, and Guild's on the other hand, absolutely require it, and to go one step further, a lot of them seem to expect you to have a gearscore so high, you have no need to run the dungeon in the first place.
It is a funny world we live in. We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
I refuse to watch anyone else play something till after I have seen it first hand myself as far as instances and raids go, so for me that would be any game released. I learn by doing not wasting my time watching others have fun. Part of the fun is learning through mistakes and failures, it makes the win mean that much more. If I go in knowing every little thing from the start there is no point as it will be boring as hell before I even get going.
I get that there is a time and place to learn things ahead of time. But sometimes I want to just pick up and play. I don't want to login..think 'hmm I'd love to do some dungeons with people...I think I will!...let me log back out and go watch Youtube for this'..then 2 hours later going in and hoping you don't eff up enough to get kicked.
I just want an mmo with dungeon diving content that is more pick up and play and doesn't require Udemy before hand to be successful. Yeah, I'm referencing one mmo in particular that expects this type of process. Just looking to get out of that rat race and just play.
Is there such a thing?
Every MMO that has dungeons fits, none of them require youtube study before hand.
A lot of players, PuGs, and Guild's on the other hand, absolutely require it, and to go one step further, a lot of them seem to expect you to have a gearscore so high, you have no need to run the dungeon in the first place.
That's a problem with gearscore in MMO's. Groups want an easy run, so they require gear further than the dungeon to get into a group for the dungeon. It's a paradox that isn't easy to solve without joining a guild that is willing to help you, or finding a group that is willing to help.
Why don't you just let others lead the content rather than trying to take charge yourself? If you are new to a particular dungeon, tell people, "Hey, first time running this event, please let me know if there is anything in particular I should do." I don't play whatever mmo you're playing that requires youtube, but I've never been kicked from a group for admitting I am learning something new.
I see people stating that players need to slow down and enjoy the journey rather than race to the end game content. What about players who prefer the end game grind over the journey? I know so many people who have 100 alts and zero end game characters and to me, that is just stupid. I want my chosen character to be the best he can be and possibly, the best on the server. That by very nature means end game grind.
LOL wow, I was floored at how this thread took on a life of its own.
I grew up poor in the 80's, my first game for NES was an rpg game and it was Dragon Warrior. I only got the system (hand-me-down) a year before I had that game, mainly just playing Mario & Duck Hunt for the longest time. I'd see all these games like Dragon Warrior that had a guide out there or Final Fantasy had the Nintendo Power guide but I never got the chance to have those. I just played and played and figured out where to go, where to dig, how to find things on my own.
I also played a lot of oldschool D&D, delved in quite a few dungeons not knowing what was there, how to fight what was there, died some and lived through others. This was before the surge of the internet anyway. No youtube videos for modules. So I guess I'm just from another era. The concept of 'go study videos for lots and lots of dungeons', not even talking about raids, before coming along just seems too counter-immersive to what I am use to, and refuse to do it. Heck, other than a few maps printed off here and there, mostly what I made myself, I never watched a video of a dungeon for EQ or UO. We just went and did it. We did everything in our power to keep healer alive or escape as they were out means of getting brought back to life.
I understand that WoW and WoW-like games have mechanics to their bosses. If learning a group or raid wide synchronized dance, because that's basically all that is, gives you pleasure then great. This is the LFG forum, I was looking for a game. Don't let it bother ya.
I get that there is a time and place to learn things ahead of time. But sometimes I want to just pick up and play. I don't want to login..think 'hmm I'd love to do some dungeons with people...I think I will!...let me log back out and go watch Youtube for this'..then 2 hours later going in and hoping you don't eff up enough to get kicked.
I just want an mmo with dungeon diving content that is more pick up and play and doesn't require Udemy before hand to be successful. Yeah, I'm referencing one mmo in particular that expects this type of process. Just looking to get out of that rat race and just play.
Well WarEnsemble you would like Tera's current approach. Pumped up xp rate, bonus xp tokens, dungeons where the story is thrown under the bus for the sake of getting players up to the end game as fast as possible.
I like how everyone is so offended and angry over someone who doesn't want to be forced to watching youtube, when the info should be in the game to begin with.
The saddest thing about these people replying, is this isn't in the PUB for discussions. But in the LFG section for someone who wants to look for MMOs. But so many sad individuals replying that must live the saddest lives possible cause they can't stand someone who isn't like themselves or play exactly like they do. Most likely a bunch of bigots in real life that don't like anyone that isn't like themselves, just like the rest of the buffoon supporters.
Post edited by TheScavenger on
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
I like how everyone is so offended and angry over someone who doesn't want to be forced to watching youtube, when the info should be in the game to begin with.
The saddest thing about these people replying, is this isn't in the PUB for discussions. But in the LFG section for someone who wants to look for MMOs. But so many sad individuals replying that must live the saddest lives possible cause they can't stand someone who isn't like themselves or play exactly like they do. Most likely a bunch of bigots in real life that don't like anyone that isn't like themselves, just like the rest of the buffoon supporters.
I am so sad...sniff sniff.
I particularly liked the way you corralled those of us
who find it strange that someone should expect everything they do in a game to
not need any sort of instruction as evidence that we are Trump supporters. Quite
a bizarre piece of reasoning really, so
much so that it seemed rather buffoonish to me.
That's all I have time for now, Donald needs some help with his tweets.
I see wow being throw around a lot but honestly, you dont need anything past dbm until like you do heroic raiding maybe or higher M+ when you actually have to use your brain a bit more. If you can't be bothered to install and keep dbm up to date, then I dont know what else to say.
FFXIV is kind of chill in terms of dungeons and most people will give you tips if you say "first time" etc at the start of the dungeon since they probably want commendations so they wont be a dick. I honestly feel like if WoW had a commendation system, less people would be dicks. Even Smite implemented one recently and I notice that I run into more helpful/talkative ppl in matches vs the f6 warriors.
Our guild in ESO is specifically designed for people to learn content and we do not want or require people to worry about videos or guides. The journey is the goal.
I think its about finding like-minded people in the game you want to play. I have watched zero videos on ESO and have a majority of the dungeons (including vets) completed. I prefer to learn it the old fashioned way and thankfully found people who let me.
WTF, ESO is one of the worst mmo,s for speed running dungeons snobs....
Our guild in ESO is specifically designed for people to learn content and we do not want or require people to worry about videos or guides. The journey is the goal.
I think its about finding like-minded people in the game you want to play. I have watched zero videos on ESO and have a majority of the dungeons (including vets) completed. I prefer to learn it the old fashioned way and thankfully found people who let me.
WTF, ESO is one of the worst mmo,s for speed running dungeons snobs....
Probably why a guild was formed to support those who don't want to 'speed run' dungeons, though honestly, any MMO that has dungeons in it has speed runners, even FFXIV:ARR has players who demand others watch youtube videos etc. doesn't mean you don't have the right to ignore them, tbh as a healer i tend to let them hang themselves, but we all have our crosses to bear
Comments
The idea of having to watch a youtube video for a dungeon for a PUG? This is rePUGnant.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
This is actually where level scaling hurts the game. At launch if you were PUGging Banished Cells you were likely running it with 3 others in the level 10-15 range with a roughly equal knowledge of the game, mechanics and dungeon.
These days you're likely to run it with a mix of players anywhere from level 10 to CP780 doing it for their random of the day or because it's one of the undaunted pledges. The CP780 people have run Banished Cells 100 times before and are there just for the reward and some of them - not all, mind you - tend to be impatient. They should actually have an option to run it solo and still get the rewards. That might stop a lot of the nonsense since a lot of players could solo it.
Queuing for PUGs in ESO requires a thick skin and being adaptable enough to run it with DPS pretend queuing as tanks or healers.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Thing is, Gw2 do not support their dungeons outside of Fractals of the Mists which is sort of a mini-dungeons with some fractured lore and shit. I don't know it's weird. I used to farm a lot of dungeons at launch, now it's still farmable and profitable but it was better when they were actively supporting and developing them.
ESO is full of those mechanics in dungeons that become available at level 45. Although that's fairly recent and a lot of those dungeons with mechanics you need to know were available at level 10 until not long ago.
It's not uber tricky stuff but it is stuff you need to know how to deal with and it's not just the tank who needs to know it - everyone does.
They can still be done without YT research but that requires that at least one party member is civilized enough to ask if everyone knows the fight and explain it if someone doesn't when you come up to one of those.
The simple tank and spank dungeons are going the way of the dodo.
An example of one of those dungeons I mentioned above that used to be available at level 10 in ESO:
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
WoW is like this as well, but I feel to a lesser extent. The mechanics for just your general or heroic dungeons can often be cleared even with a failed mechanic or two and you can use mods to warn you of mechanics, should you choose to use them.
Of course people are way too impatient and boring now. All about end game, gearing up. Quitting the game cause they have everything. They never seem to really enjoy themselves along the way.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
A lot of players, PuGs, and Guild's on the other hand, absolutely require it, and to go one step further, a lot of them seem to expect you to have a gearscore so high, you have no need to run the dungeon in the first place.
We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
I grew up poor in the 80's, my first game for NES was an rpg game and it was Dragon Warrior. I only got the system (hand-me-down) a year before I had that game, mainly just playing Mario & Duck Hunt for the longest time. I'd see all these games like Dragon Warrior that had a guide out there or Final Fantasy had the Nintendo Power guide but I never got the chance to have those. I just played and played and figured out where to go, where to dig, how to find things on my own.
I also played a lot of oldschool D&D, delved in quite a few dungeons not knowing what was there, how to fight what was there, died some and lived through others. This was before the surge of the internet anyway. No youtube videos for modules. So I guess I'm just from another era. The concept of 'go study videos for lots and lots of dungeons', not even talking about raids, before coming along just seems too counter-immersive to what I am use to, and refuse to do it. Heck, other than a few maps printed off here and there, mostly what I made myself, I never watched a video of a dungeon for EQ or UO. We just went and did it. We did everything in our power to keep healer alive or escape as they were out means of getting brought back to life.
I understand that WoW and WoW-like games have mechanics to their bosses. If learning a group or raid wide synchronized dance, because that's basically all that is, gives you pleasure then great. This is the LFG forum, I was looking for a game. Don't let it bother ya.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
The saddest thing about these people replying, is this isn't in the PUB for discussions. But in the LFG section for someone who wants to look for MMOs. But so many sad individuals replying that must live the saddest lives possible cause they can't stand someone who isn't like themselves or play exactly like they do. Most likely a bunch of bigots in real life that don't like anyone that isn't like themselves, just like the rest of the buffoon supporters.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
I am so sad...sniff sniff.
I particularly liked the way you corralled those of us who find it strange that someone should expect everything they do in a game to not need any sort of instruction as evidence that we are Trump supporters. Quite a bizarre piece of reasoning really, so much so that it seemed rather buffoonish to me.
That's all I have time for now, Donald needs some help with his tweets.