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NorseGod

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Erillion

As these are player made threads reflecting some of MANY player opinions, I would not get too dismayed about it. We know private servers are one of the last things to do on the CIG list (one needs a game first to port it on private servers ;-) ) 

I recommend to wait and see how it REALLY looks like after the game has launched. Then you can always decide wether you like it or not. 


Have fun

NorseGod

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Arglebargle

Thought the private servers were nixed long ago?  Personally I thought it was a great idea, as guilds could recruit other like minded guilds to set up in a game universe they prefered.   

I think you are laying the blame in the wrong place.  The devs are disorganized and incoherent at times, and last I heard, nothing in the game was locked down.   So it will continue to be amorphous, as selling you back your dreams is their business model. 

Your discontent is an example of this failing.

NorseGod

k61977

So two different responses here. 

One yeah having the player base spread out is a bad thing with certain caveats to that. 

Secondly you seem like you are mad because people that don't want to PVP will be able to play on PVE servers so you don't have people to go gank other than people that want to PVP.  This is the same thing every time why not let the people that just want a PVE experience have it and play with the others that want the PVP experience on a PVP server.  Personally think all games should have two servers one for PVP and one for PVE, it removes all the main issues other than people realizing that the hard core PVP groups are a niche small crowd compared to the other side of the coin. 

Anyway not going to talk about the whole PVE vs. PVP debate anymore as it comes up in every game ever made these days.

Overall this game may be released by 2050 who the hell knows so until then I will just sit back and watch more and more people throw money at a game that may not ever truly see release, I hope it does one day, but really got my doubts it will ever reach a release state because of how much they move the goal post.

NorseGod

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NorseGod

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Slapshot1188

If they are supporting private servers does that mean that multiplayer can be back in Squadron 42?

NorseGod

Raquis

most people will play on the main servers and most people are not scared of pvp even if they casual;)

NorseGod

Octagon7711

To be fair CR has always played both sides of the fence when fielding questions about PvP and PvE.  When first asked about PvE he mentioned a slider which kept a lot of PvE people from walking away from the game.  Them he mentioned some areas would be pretty safe with a small chance of PvP.  Then he mentioned the game wouldn't be an Eve extension.  CIG also mentioned griefing will be anything that disrupts a players regular gameplay.  This is what is keeping PvE people interested, that and exploration.  So blame PvE people of you want but all CIG has to say is, "Open world PvP only game. If you want PvE just play SQ42."  And all doubts will be removed.  But they will never make such a statement.  Of course people will focus more on what's related to their interests.

Also instead of comparing the game to BBQ joints and vegetarians how about comparing it to other space games that have open world PvP and how they're more successful then those that have both?  That would make for better logic imo, or even other MMO's in general that have one or both?

NorseGod

Kyleran

If you were reading a thread from someone who is a member of CODE it's just an old EVE Goon conversation and I wouldnt put a lot of stock in it.

At this point no one knows how everything will turn out, not even Chris Roberts.

All will depend on how well their efforts go to optimize the game which they are currently working on in several different ways. (Special thanks to @MaxBacon who shared some good articles on it)

But....I do not recall them ever promising to build a MMORPG with thousands of players in a fight, was always going to be some sort of linked shard system but I'm not familar with the details.

If someone has spent $200 (or $20K) based on a vision 5 years ago and is now disappointed with how things are turning out then that's on them and a valuable lesson learned.

Hey, even I did it, believing the promises of Marc Jacob and CU, and throwing in a few hundred.

No more though, won't even consider spending anything until there is a very playable, almost completely finished game available, which is why SC nor a half dozen other projects haven't seen anything from me yet.

I  enjoy discussing SC here, giving its supporters a bit of a razzing from time to time but as I haven't spent anything,  no harm, no foul from my perspective. 

Well except for the fact I'm not getting any younger here, so I do hope they speed it up a bit. 

MaxBacon

What you heard about servers is currently wrong, SC in terms of allowing private servers currently that is just a possibility for after the release.

For release SC is one MMO it's one persistent online PvPvE game-world where (with likely different EU/US/AU worlds), it can't be played offline, as one typical MMO is.

Population is also not going to be segregated through many isolated servers as you are understanding it, the game-world runs in the cloud hence it has many servers to cope with the population, but the data is persistent and not isolated, this is the same thing as you see in MMO's like Elder Scrolls Online or even Guild Wars 2.

Un-official private servers were indeed nixed from the scope of the game by release, and stand as nothing but a possibility as what they might want to develop post-launch.


And in technical terms it just won't realistically happen, the developers putting the effort to transform and maintain one MMO backend running in the cloud (where multiple physical servers work together to brings features online such as FOIP), into a single software for players to host themselves... I would bet private servers will not happen.

rodarin

MaxBacon said:

What you heard about servers is currently wrong, SC in terms of allowing private servers currently that is just a possibility for after the release.

For release SC is one MMO it's one persistent online PvPvE game-world where (with likely different EU/US/AU worlds), it can't be played offline, as one typical MMO is.

Population is also not going to be segregated through many isolated servers as you are understanding it, the game-world runs in the cloud hence it has many servers to cope with the population, but the data is persistent and not isolated, this is the same thing as you see in MMO's like Elder Scrolls Online or even Guild Wars 2.

Still claims and suppositions. Even if its true. The OP sifted through years of video (or claimed to) and has also apparently looked at and asked pertinent questions. If you want to contradict everything he has found out youre going to have to have more than words youre going to have to have links that have precedence over what he found. Especially considering youre co top apologist for this nonsense.

Youre supposition on persistence is most telling because they dont have persistence fully implemented. Even with the bare bones skeletal make up of the tech demo they are presenting as an alpha they still cant have everything stay once you log off. As far as the actual core mechanics of ANY game that is maybe the most disturbing part of the potential for this to be mechanically called an MMO in the first place. So while people can argue about this or that and the white knights and fanbois can defer and deflect, the fact remains that persistence does not yet exist in this project. Which at 3.2 or whatever make believe number theyre spouting in terms of version is pretty disturbing. Especially for something with so many moving parts as this thing wants to have.

So these fancy new moons and planets. I spend 30 minutes real life time getting to one. I land on it and walk around. I crash or log off. Am I still there when I get back on? Is anything I may have picked up or collected still in my possession or is it gone too? Real questions because I dont know. Not sure if anyone else does either.

MaxBacon

rodarin said:

Still claims and suppositions. Even if its true. The OP sifted through years of video (or claimed to) and has also apparently looked at and asked pertinent questions. If you want to contradict everything he has found out youre going to have to have more than words youre going to have to have links that have precedence over what he found. Especially considering youre co top apologist for this nonsense.

Wrong Wrong Wrong.

What is stated officially, years ago already, is that private servers are not part of the scope of this game, and will not be there by release and may be there after. Private servers were one of the rare things they were clear about not being part of the scope anymore.

The fact the OP found threads of people discussing this, really means nothing to the official stand, as there have always been discussions about private servers.

It is misleading to be saying private servers are in, they are not and still as a maybe for post launch, nothing has changed. He is welcome to provide the links that give recent official information that contradicts such.

Kyleran

NorseGod said:

Check out 1 of 2, where I discuss gimmicks and what lead me here.

https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/476118/i-think-i-made-a-mistake-1-of-2#latest

So, I'm just hanging out reading up on stuff. Waiting on the Mercury Q&A. It's a dud. It's slow, sold as fast smuggling ship. Data limitations, but more computers than any other sub-capital ship.

Then, I noticed in the last 2 days, threads about private servers and getting rid of PVP from the game popping up.

I'm sitting there reading all this about PVP needs to go, it's not fair, I just want to play with my friends, etc etc. Like, great, here we go with casual carebears ruining another MMORPG.

So casual carebears, whom will leave the game after their first 30 days, are asking for a PVP/PVE toggle, PVE servers, and outright getting rid of PVP.

THEN, I found a thread about private servers. And from the thread discussions, there will be:

Private servers

Public servers

Official Public servers

PvE servers

PvP servers

Capital Ships Only servers

Sub-Capital Ships Only servers

[Insert another way to split up the playerbase] server

I asked for citations. Yep, it's true. Everybody is going to be spread out across a million different private servers. The casuals support this so they don't have to play with others or PVP, etc.

So, if you think server pop in an MMORPG is important. There ya go.

Those citations were from 2013, but no updates. They are hard to find, as with any important information with this game.

Kinda mad about it.

It's not because of the $200 I threw at them. Not because of the new SSD I bought this past Saturday, solely for the game. Not the hours of reading and watching videos.

No, I'm mad because I have been waiting over a decade to have a large, OWPVP, sandbox MMORPG that I could get lost in again. Now it's a co-op or single-player game or, MMORPG if you're willing to pay to play on an empty Official server (why would you if there are 100K free ones to play on?)

So, another game I have to move on from. I'm so damn sick of casuals ruining games. I hope you people that care about PVP and challenging MMORPGs start speaking up loudly. I don't know what casuals do or say to devs, but, it's not a joke or something that should be ignored. If you get in an alpha or beta and see some casual thread, stomp it into the mud and make it clear to the devs that little Billy who only plays 2 hours on Saturdays isn't worth more than you.

The game you want already exists, its called EVE but I assume you aren't playing for "reasons."

Babuinix

You should really do some research before spitting out lie after lie...

Persistence is indeed already in the game... Every quest you make persists and gets you reputation which persists, same for gear and weapons... You buy new gear and weapons and they persist, You fill a ship with cargo and log off it persists. You travel to a asteroid base and log off on the ship's bed next time you log you are in the exact same spot, with your cargo with your gear and the same reputation progress.

I dunno how you can know nothing about Star Citizen after obsessing about it for so long lol

Like most it's just the usual circle of frustration fueled by ignorance, misconceptions or mischief that shrouds the same #concerns disguised as discussion.

As for the OP it seems that the problem comes from the fact that you're having a carebear aproach to crowdfunding and game development.

Your mindset is focused on you and your potential gains when pledging should be about supporting a project financially. You are worried about viability of ships or mechanics in a game in development after you already gave money upfront when you probably should have worried before and act accordingly.

Again the problem is on you not crowdfunding, game development or the company. Own it. 

Ps - The Cutlass is the best ship atm in terms of cost/fun benefit because it's well rounded enough to test almost all content.

rodarin

MaxBacon said:

rodarin said:

Still claims and suppositions. Even if its true. The OP sifted through years of video (or claimed to) and has also apparently looked at and asked pertinent questions. If you want to contradict everything he has found out youre going to have to have more than words youre going to have to have links that have precedence over what he found. Especially considering youre co top apologist for this nonsense.

Wrong Wrong Wrong.

What is stated officially, years ago already, is that private servers are not part of the scope of this game, and will not be there by release and may be there after. Private servers were one of the rare things they were clear about not being part of the scope anymore.

The fact the OP found threads of people discussing this, really means nothing to the official stand, as there have always been discussions about private servers.

It is misleading to be saying private servers are in, they are not and still as a maybe for post launch, nothing has changed. He is welcome to provide the links that give recent official information that contradicts such.

all this and still not a single link.

rodarin

Babuinix said:

You should really do some research before spitting out lie after lie...

Persistence is indeed already in the game... Every quest you make persists and gets you reputation which persists, same for gear and weapons... You buy new gear and weapons and they persist, You fill a ship with cargo and log off it persists. You travel to a asteroid base and log off on the ship's bed next time you log you are in the exact same spot, with your cargo with your gear and the same reputation progress.

I dunno how you can know nothing about Star Citizen after obsessing about it for so long lol

Like most it's just the usual circle of frustration fueled by ignorance, misconceptions or mischief that shrouds the same #concerns disguised as discussion.

As for the OP it seems that the problem comes from the fact that you're having a carebear aproach to crowdfunding and game development.

Your mindset is focused on you and your potential gains when pledging should be about supporting a project financially. You are worried about viability of ships or mechanics in a game in development after you already gave money upfront when you probably should have worried before and act accordingly.

Again the problem is on you not crowdfunding, game development or the company. Own it. 

Ps - The Cutlass is the best ship atm in terms of cost/fun benefit because it's well rounded enough to test almost all content.

Really? I suppose all these guys are 'haters' too?

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8c402s/dont_mind_312s_persistence/

Granted thats 5 months old but I dont think there has been any significant updates to the tech demo since these were coming in.

This is basically all I could find from a seemingly unbiased point of view.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/8mydy6/psa_persistence_list_in_the_most_recent_patch/

So it seems like at best its all conditional and still hit or miss on whether it will WAI or not.

Plus there is still a lot of things not implemented yet, these lists only cover the stuff that is supposedly implemented and should work. But even then it looks like it doesnt half the time.

Babuinix

News flash. 5 months old info in a game who's been getting updates every 3 months gets outdated.

You really should refrain from posting about stuff you only read about. You lack context and more important knowledge about what and how things are being developed.

That's why you have trouble understanding basic stuff that has been explained thousands of times before lol

Sovrath

NorseGod said:

Arglebargle said:

Thought the private servers were nixed long ago?  Personally I thought it was a great idea, as guilds could recruit other like minded guilds to set up in a game universe they prefered.   

I think you are laying the blame in the wrong place.  The devs are disorganized and incoherent at times, and last I heard, nothing in the game was locked down.   So it will continue to be amorphous, as selling you back your dreams is their business model. 

Your discontent is an example of this failing.

Nah, they're still in.

They are being celebrated in a number of threads right now because casuals think it's a solution to avoid PVP and having to be "forced" to play with other people, or it isn't "fair" because they have to go to school and study and can't keep up and private servers give them a level play field.

I just said "fuck it" and walked away. Need to rant though, or at least pass what I learned.

Great game, if you're into private modded servers, co-ops, or single player games. Not for me though.

So what?

How does someone making their own servers with "who knows what" really affect you? Go play on the servers that are of interest to you.

Too many people too interested in what others are doing/not doing.

edit: also, from your part 1:

"The moral of the story is, don't purchase a ship that depends on gimmicks. It's a big risk"

The moral of the story is don't ever preorder, pre buy pre "anything" if you are dead set against anything changing during development and want everything during development to be exactly the same at release.

Just wait until the game is released and then consider buying if your purchase is contingent on very specific things.

MaxBacon

"Private servers are the absolute last thing on the list. I mean they are the last, there is nothing that comes after private servers." 
"...we will be live and in operation for some time before anybody even looks at private servers."

Source

This stands as the official information that has not been contradicted since, and in the wording, it also gets clear it's also a "may or may not happen" because it will and logically so, depending on demand for such feature after the game releases.

@rodarin there you go, now feel free to keep on ranting about how an online persistent game is not fully finished.

NorseGod