The next leap in virtual world technology will have to come from A.I. and interaction.
For me that was the saddest part of the EQN cancellation. Dave Mark and Sorybricks were trying to do just that in a AAA MMORPG project.
That lecture was meant, at the time, to be a thought experiment — what would happen if we actually did put decent AI in MMOs? In it, I challenged a lot of tropes that the MMO scene had fallen into: the Holy Trinity (specifically as it applied to ridiculously contrived aggro systems), static, unchanging (and unchangeable) worlds, simplistic “big bag of hit points” enemies that operated more like a mechanical wind-up toy than an intelligent being, etc. My point was that we could do better in many facets
That's a quote from Dave summarizing his 2009 GDC lecture on MMO AI.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think many believe big budget mmorpgs are dead. Not big budget games in general. The mmorpg genre is stale. Not gaming as a whole. I say let the genre wither away until hardly anything is left. Then allow for new talent and new ideas and a new vision to take hold and focus on virtual worlds and not the 'idea' of a mmorpg. The next leap in virtual world technology will have to come from A.I. and interaction.
Sure, but it was DMkano bringing gaming in general into the conversation that I was replying to.
I am actually 100% behind the return to grass roots development, much of the kind we are seeing with Pantheon and others. I have been saying this for 5 years plus. The AAA mmorpg has been a cancer that has almost killed the genre.
I agree a huge leap in mmorpgs won't be seen until new tech becomes mainstream and an every household thing, but in the meantime the games coming up look fun to play to me and I am excited for the near future.
That's all I am saying. Revolutionary thought around these parts, I know.
Actually it is bad times right now for mmorpgs. All our hopes were on some games like Crowfall, Pantheon, CU to name some of them. All of these games wont come out or are absolutely dated when they come out, because the development of these games take too long. It seems that they just take the money from crowdfunding to fund their jobs and try to make it last as long as they can. Crowdfunding was a big mistake in gaming industry.
Actually it is bad times right now for mmorpgs. All our hopes were on some games like Crowfall, Pantheon, CU to name some of them. All of these games wont come out or are absolutely dated when they come out, because the development of these games take too long. It seems that they just take the money from crowdfunding to fund their jobs and try to make it last as long as they can. Crowdfunding was a big mistake in gaming industry.
No offense, but this is probably the weakest post of the thread yet. CU and Pantheon, for example, show no signs of being 'outdated'. Part of their charm is that they are side stepping mainstream trends and this places them outside of being 'dated' or not.
In all honesty, you just seem annoyed that they weren't created in a couple of years, when their dev cycles have been perfectly normal.
The truth is that crowdfunding is only a mistake because it involves entitle impatient backers from an early stage, and this means being visible for far longer than they used to be, feeding that impatience. The other truth is that crowdfunding, while ofc has gone wrong, has also gone very very right in the gaming industry. Crowdfunding has delivered some amazing games that the AAA devs would never have touched. While I am critical of each project on it's own merits, I am actually quite an avid crowdfunding advocate for the power it gives grass roots passion led devs. It's too easy to constantly look at the negatives in everything and just moan.
Actually it is bad times right now for mmorpgs. All our hopes were on some games like Crowfall, Pantheon, CU to name some of them. All of these games wont come out or are absolutely dated when they come out, because the development of these games take too long. It seems that they just take the money from crowdfunding to fund their jobs and try to make it last as long as they can. Crowdfunding was a big mistake in gaming industry.
If they wouldn't feel dated if they launched today, but do feel dated by the time they actually launch, it will be because of those other games that launch in the meantime. And in that case, those other games might be very interesting.
Studios closing down. Major studios struggling financially Mmo devs specifically leaving the industry in droves (most have moved on already)
And yet OP says... future looks bright?
Is this one of those "alternate universe" threads where OP is posting from a parallel universe where the twin towers are still standing and CoH never got shut down?
I am just done with the same game with a different skin repeat. Over and over again. The mmorpg never evolved. It just rehashed the same mechanics and gameplay over and over again. I have been there done that for over 20 years with no real change it has just grown stale for me.
See... What we have is one guy earlier in the thread saying that there are no trad mmorpgs upcoming, which there are, and you saying that it's the same old thing over again, which it isn't.
There are plenty of fresh ideas on the table in these upcoming games.
But, it sounds like you are just done with the genre in general, so nothing I am gonna say will chnage that.
Both are partially true to an extent. Most of the upcoming MMO are not traditional in the WoW or LOTRO sense of the idea. But all of the ideas that are coming have been done before and there is a reason people keep failing at them. A lot of the upcoming MMO are promising to be everything to everyone or they are nostalgia vehicles blasting us back to the past. First you cannot be all things to everyone, look at AA as an example. And as far as blasting back to 1999 or 2004, all of those games are for a small audience at best due to time commitments most of us cannot give anymore.
Dual Universe is only one I am on board with currently that is an upcoming MMO. I still play a couple as well but the genre is in a bad place currently. Take out the top 3 MMO and a very small percentage of people even play these anymore in the west anyway.
If by AA you mean ArcheAge, the only reason that became a heaping pile of garbage is greedy fuckers at the helm with the cash shop. The game itself was phenomenally great, exspecially when it was launched. But they ruined it with the cash shop.
See I take a different stance. I am not jaded or let down by crowdfunding or whatever. I am just done with the same game with a different skin repeat. Over and over again. The mmorpg never evolved. It just rehashed the same mechanics and gameplay over and over again. I have been there done that for over 20 years with no real change it has just grown stale for me. There are just other hybrid model games that have come along and taken over and pushed the mmorpg aside. Millions of prior mmorpg players have left the genre behind as the genre could not keep up and continue to change. Many things in life are cyclical so perhaps the mmorpg will reinvent itself at some point but I hardly think it will resemble what many of us from the golden age would recognize. What we once knew is gone.
I am confused. Here you claim the problem with the genre is it has failed to evolve.
Yet in this same forum people will claim the genre's problems are because it changed far too much from the early designs.
So which is it?
Or maybe its "we" (the playerbase) who has changed?
Weird.
Because some people's "early designs" are DAOC and others would be WoW. DAOC's designs are very much removed from todays playable mmorpgs whereas WoW's is still mostly in use.
Essentially, it depends who's talking at the moment.
If by AA you mean ArcheAge, the only reason that became a heaping pile of garbage is greedy fuckers at the helm with the cash shop. The game itself was phenomenally great, exspecially when it was launched. But they ruined it with the cash shop.
People keep saying that...i have a hard time believing that a good game can be ruined by a cash shop.
A good game will be good if it is designed well....and if a shop can "ruin" it, then it was never that good.
The same thing with the OLD SWG, it was never that good, for a large audience...and them re-doing it, did not change much in that regard.
The original players that loved the above games, were not happy with some changes, and just hastened people leaving.
This type of thing happens on every game. Same thing on EQ and WOW, and others... people clamor for "original" servers, but they rarely do as well as people think they will.
The truth is, what some feel is a perfect game...just isn't. But they would love to keep it the same, even after they stop playing, and paying, for the game:)
OK the OP is happy, excited even. But hey! If everything is so wonderful why is there not a single MMORPG that I want to play? I have the money, I have more than enough time, and I love playing MMORPGS. The only one that I am looking forward to is Pantheon, and I worry that that game will be DOA.
Sorry, it's never been worse. The MMORPG has been dead for quite some time now
If you want to do a deeper dive into why MMORPGs are so bad just look at the developers who build them. To be blunt, today's generation does not have...
I think the reality is that there are 2 things that have to change..
1. The business model where they spend massive amount of resources on figuring out how to rape players for every penny they can.
2. Time.. it's going to be a few more years before the millennials age out of game development and a new generation...
Yeah, I normally stop at the get off my lawn 'this generation' stuff. Of course millenials can build and launch great games. Thinking that they can't is a ridiculous mindset.
But, look, I get the monetisation complaints. I was one of the few voices here that was hardline anti cash shop here on mmorpg.com when they and the rot of the F2P model were appearing in western MMORPGs. I was always of the view that they were anti consumer and unethical exploitation, even when the majority of the forum members were 100% on board the hype train of it all and cash shops were being hailed as the saviour of gaming by most. The threads we had arguing this were huge and the pro sub people were a small minority. I agree that cash shops are not ideal and I still won't play a game with loot boxes. I get it, but I also have to say... I tried telling everyone this would all happen years ago and very few listened. At this point I am... Well, mmorpg players made their bed, time to lay in it. But, yes, the current state of monetisation is shitty.
But, I just don't see the upcoming crop of games being overly weighed down by unethical revenues, or suffering from having to put resources into building a cash shop. I don't think the complaint is that justified.
Wait, what crack are you smoking man. You were one of the few voices that was anti cash shop? Every single person I know hates the damn things with a passion.. don't pretend like you foretold this, pretty much everybody saw it for what it was but were powerless to do anything about it.
And yes... games today are shallow, lack depth and are basically built with the current product marketing mindset that you only build enough to get somebody to pay for it and nothing more. Go read the lean product hand book and that will help you understand why you think you are getting something grand but in reality you are getting a stinking pile of shit but yet you still buy it.
And to be clear, you can ignore the millenial problem because let's face it, you probably are one and one of the things they do best is ignore problems and pretend they aren't there. Trust me when I say this, in software development your product represents your team, and if you have a team of millenials that product rarely gets done. All you have to do is look at the list of MMORPGs in the past 5 years that basically are not even close to releasing.
And one more thing that is kind of fun, if you ever want to see just how bad the millenial problem is go into a store, walmart whatever and when you are checking out question something.. anything, doesn't matter what it is. You can say I thought this milk was $1.99 but it rings up as $2.50? The millenial will crack every single time, they panic and don't know how to handle somebody actually confronting them on anything, they will give you the milk for free because they are to lazy to price check it.. they are so damn lazy they don't even want to type 1.99 into the register. I get so much free stuff this way it's hilarious, I'm not mean, not hateful in any way.. I just ask a question as nice as I can and they can't handle it.
It's kind of become a game, how nice can I be asking a question and still get free stuff. Just yesterday I picked up a pizza at Dominos and I said, "oh did I get a drink with that, maybe I didn't"... boom, they cracked, here have a mt dew.. don't worry about paying. lol
I have to agree with the OP, there are more MMO's out now then there have ever been, many have top quality content, graphics, and mechanics.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
oh, you mean people are jaded because they have been burned in the past?
They should have done what i did and taken a break from it all for a while until it started to look fun again.
Mostly burnout at this point due the never ending story development is taking.
I am CU KSer backer and I knew the 2 year promise date was not likely.
Never expected to be at the 6 year mark (April) with the game still in beta and no realistic promise date still.
Crowfall, Star Citizen, Pantheon, etc, all just part of the Song that Doesn't End.
I'm like that with City of Titans. I'm in no hurry to see it released, though. I backed it with the game and 3 month subscription already paid, but they recently announced... CASH SHOPS! yay... another subscription nullifier.
At this point, I'm doubtful I will get my money's worth. C'est la vie
It's not really that MMOs today are terrible. They just don't hit what I'm looking for anymore. The players today are the main reason, along with this incessant rush to some vaunted "end game", which I do not enjoy. Raiding has always been too chaotic for me. "Daily Chores" should be killed slowly and painfully. The lack of character advancement (How many MMOs have something like EQ's AA system?) makes the games pretty much meaningless to me.
Yet! I am happy that so many players today find a plethora of free, new games to rush through
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Sorry, it's never been worse. The MMORPG has been dead for quite some time now
If you want to do a deeper dive into why MMORPGs are so bad just look at the developers who build them. To be blunt, today's generation does not have...
I think the reality is that there are 2 things that have to change..
1. The business model where they spend massive amount of resources on figuring out how to rape players for every penny they can.
2. Time.. it's going to be a few more years before the millennials age out of game development and a new generation...
Yeah, I normally stop at the get off my lawn 'this generation' stuff. Of course millenials can build and launch great games. Thinking that they can't is a ridiculous mindset.
But, look, I get the monetisation complaints. I was one of the few voices here that was hardline anti cash shop here on mmorpg.com when they and the rot of the F2P model were appearing in western MMORPGs. I was always of the view that they were anti consumer and unethical exploitation, even when the majority of the forum members were 100% on board the hype train of it all and cash shops were being hailed as the saviour of gaming by most. The threads we had arguing this were huge and the pro sub people were a small minority. I agree that cash shops are not ideal and I still won't play a game with loot boxes. I get it, but I also have to say... I tried telling everyone this would all happen years ago and very few listened. At this point I am... Well, mmorpg players made their bed, time to lay in it. But, yes, the current state of monetisation is shitty.
But, I just don't see the upcoming crop of games being overly weighed down by unethical revenues, or suffering from having to put resources into building a cash shop. I don't think the complaint is that justified.
Wait, what crack are you smoking man. You were one of the few voices that was anti cash shop? Every single person I know hates the damn things with a passion.. don't pretend like you foretold this, pretty much everybody saw it for what it was but were powerless to do anything about it.
And yes... games today are shallow, lack depth and are basically built with the current product marketing mindset that you only build enough to get somebody to pay for it and nothing more. Go read the lean product hand book and that will help you understand why you think you are getting something grand but in reality you are getting a stinking pile of shit but yet you still buy it.
And to be clear, you can ignore the millenial problem because let's face it, you probably are one and one of the things they do best is ignore problems and pretend they aren't there. Trust me when I say this, in software development your product represents your team, and if you have a team of millenials that product rarely gets done. All you have to do is look at the list of MMORPGs in the past 5 years that basically are not even close to releasing.
And one more thing that is kind of fun, if you ever want to see just how bad the millenial problem is go into a store, walmart whatever and when you are checking out question something.. anything, doesn't matter what it is. You can say I thought this milk was $1.99 but it rings up as $2.50? The millenial will crack every single time, they panic and don't know how to handle somebody actually confronting them on anything, they will give you the milk for free because they are to lazy to price check it.. they are so damn lazy they don't even want to type 1.99 into the register. I get so much free stuff this way it's hilarious, I'm not mean, not hateful in any way.. I just ask a question as nice as I can and they can't handle it.
It's kind of become a game, how nice can I be asking a question and still get free stuff. Just yesterday I picked up a pizza at Dominos and I said, "oh did I get a drink with that, maybe I didn't"... boom, they cracked, here have a mt dew.. don't worry about paying. lol
There's that generational stereotyping again. It's always SO accurate, why wouldn't you do it??
Now, I admit... I toook some time away from mainstream MMORPGs because the whole thing was boring to me, preferring to play classic Everquest, but I have to say... The future looks so bright to me. So many choices from Ashes of Creation to Hytale to watch grow and maybe eventually play.
I think I am back!
Why is the general vibe in the genre so deflated and negative? I don't get it.
Enjoy the long boring show of games that disappoint at 5 years of waiting.
lol, it's a minor sideshow for me, nothing more. I am back in DaoC tommorow on a new server, so I have that to look forward to, and Kunark will drop sometime in the future on my EQ server. I'm not bored
And those microcosms are fine for what they are. The up coming MMORPGs that don't need a gigantic player base to survive should do just fine. However the people that keep preaching against all logic that any of these games will cause a new renascence in MMORPG gaming and bring in millions of new, or even old time, gamers, I just can't take seriously.
I agree. These old MMORPGs will not increase the playerbase significantly. What they do offer is variety, so that not almost every MMO looks and plays the same.
I know that is too much to ask for while big business/suits run this shit show. Variety doesn't bring in the "big bucks" fast enough for them
This is why I have no problem with these new MMOs, other than there is little, or minuscule variety. They just don't click with with me, which is fine. I don't "need" an MMORPG to play
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
They most certainly are not dead but good ones coming out,rubbish talk. We need a break in the lines to get back to game design quality,right now devs want to sell us promises,basic shells of a game. When we step back look at the big picture we realize it will take a large developer,lots of money,this narrows down our chances dramatically.
My best hope/hunch was Epic games who had not yet broken out of the fps genre.Fortnite was their attmept,sadly even a giant like Epic went cartoony,lower budget,less risk.
This tells us that there is only a small handful,maybe 3/4/5 large devs that would even attempt a hq MMORPG.Then what are the odds those few games actually turn out HQ AAA,so now you see the problem we face hoping for HQ AAA mmorpg's.Expect more reskinned,copycat low budget offering for quite awhile.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have to agree with the OP, there are more MMO's out now then there have ever been, many have top quality content, graphics, and mechanics.
Does "more" mean "good?"
I agree that there are certainly more MMOs out today (20 to 30+ 15 years ago vs 600+ today), but mathematically, there has to be, since there are still a lot of old MMOs still up and running with new ones releasing quite often.
Cable/satellite TV has "more channels", but unless one loves "Scripted, Edited-For-Drama" Reality Shows, there isn't much to choose from.
If, like the OP, one is excited for the changes in new MMOs, you're in heaven! More power to you! But don't expect all of us to drink the kool-aid
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Cant be serious. Back in the 'golden' era of MMOs and releases you had 5 or 6 premium MMOS (at the time all getting ready to release withing 18 months or so of each other...Rift, Lotro, AOC, Warhammer. Then you had some decent lower tier stuff like Pirate of the Burning Sea, Fallen Earth, Runes of Magic, Star Trek Online, Aoin, Tabula Rasa, and Allods. Technically thats like a 3 year window but most of those were within a two year window.
All we have now is a bunch of kickstarter trash that more than likely wont ever release or if they do they wont be of any consequence.
The top hyped games on this place (when they were announced and currently) one is going to go mobile (already has) and the other was what everyone said it was going to be...epic failure. Pantheon ironically is the one now seemingly with the most credibility. But it looks to be another fail for most with its group oriented design and lack of any real specifics other than the usual catch phrases everyone wants to read and hear.
Camelot that this has been getting made for how long now? I doubt it ever comes out. Crowfall same thing. Group focused and PvP focused double negative (which in this case doesnt make a positive). Lost Ark a failure around the world now coming to the west.... Saga of Lucimia. Another group focused game that is also using the term 'sandbox' which used to excite people but now should make them cringe. Especially the way its delivered.
Thats just the top ones on the hype page which doesnt mean much but other than Star Citizen I dont know of any other 'serious' (used in the loosest sense) efforts at making an MMO right now.
So from 4-2007 to 9-2009 you had at least 10 very playable to very good MMOS that actually released compared to a half dozen perpetual development games with questionable mechanics with maybe 3 of them having a real shot at delivering even a base game within the next 3-5 years and THIS is the time to be excited?
I have to agree with the OP, there are more MMO's out now then there have ever been, many have top quality content, graphics, and mechanics.
Does "more" mean "good?"
I agree that there are certainly more MMOs out today (20 to 30+ 15 years ago vs 600+ today), but mathematically, there has to be, since there are still a lot of old MMOs still up and running with new ones releasing quite often.
Cable/satellite TV has "more channels", but unless one loves "Scripted, Edited-For-Drama" Reality Shows, there isn't much to choose from.
If, like the OP, one is excited for the changes in new MMOs, you're in heaven! More power to you! But don't expect all of us to drink the kool-aid
It's not about drinking Kool-Aid, or anything like that, I am not trying to convince anyone to enjoy what is out there, I am simply enjoying it.
If what is out there is not appealing to you, then that is what it is.
That does not mean in any sense that there is not a lot of out there to enjoy, nor that any of it is bad or good, as "Bad and Good" (Outside Direct Mechanical Issues) are matters of tastes as opposed to any kind of absolute.
Like for example, I enjoy BDO for a little while, but I just could not stand the UI. Ok.. matter of taste on my part, not working for me, but that in no way makes it a bad game, and buy the numbers many people are enjoying it. My wife loved the horses and had a lot of fun with that, one Guild mate even made a Barge to sale the Oceans with.. amazing stuff.. but.. the UI drove me nuts, so.. I burned out pretty quick on it. Still a great game and I would recommend it to anyone to at least try.
But, to each their own. It's like going out to eat, there could be a thousand restaurants in your city, but if none of them appeal to you, then there is "No place to eat out" equally so, there are many other people that may enjoy just trying a different one each week, and return to the ones they liked. But like eating out, I am not going to force you to dine out with me, if I am in some grease ball dive, slopping up a heart attack special with extra cheese and a side of seasoned double deep fried steak fries, and this is not where you want to eat, then, it's not for you.
The fact that you think I drank Kool-Aid because I am having fun playing what is available to me.. nahh bro.. that is not how it works.. this is my play time.. I am having fun, and that is all that matters. If you are not that is on you man... keep your sorrow to yourself.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If by AA you mean ArcheAge, the only reason that became a heaping pile of garbage is greedy fuckers at the helm with the cash shop. The game itself was phenomenally great, exspecially when it was launched. But they ruined it with the cash shop.
People keep saying that...i have a hard time believing that a good game can be ruined by a cash shop.
A good game will be good if it is designed well....and if a shop can "ruin" it, then it was never that good.
The same thing with the OLD SWG, it was never that good, for a large audience...and them re-doing it, did not change much in that regard.
The original players that loved the above games, were not happy with some changes, and just hastened people leaving.
This type of thing happens on every game. Same thing on EQ and WOW, and others... people clamor for "original" servers, but they rarely do as well as people think they will.
The truth is, what some feel is a perfect game...just isn't. But they would love to keep it the same, even after they stop playing, and paying, for the game:)
I have to agree. Cash shop and loot boxes don't bother me. I've played some games for years without buying anything from their cash shops. I have 1000 silver given to me that came along with a DLC in Destiny 2 that's been setting there for months because I haven't use their cash shop to buy anything since I bought the game.
I could see people getting upset if you PvP and people could buy gear and weapons with OP stats only in a cash shop. But I mostly PvE and find cash shops and loot boxes easy to ignore.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If by AA you mean ArcheAge, the only reason that became a heaping pile of garbage is greedy fuckers at the helm with the cash shop. The game itself was phenomenally great, exspecially when it was launched. But they ruined it with the cash shop.
People keep saying that...i have a hard time believing that a good game can be ruined by a cash shop.
A good game will be good if it is designed well....and if a shop can "ruin" it, then it was never that good.
Do you play ArcheAge though? I don't think you can make that comment unless you played it. It's not so much about cash shop. It is how bad the cash shop is.
Maybe you are right, ArcheAge might not be successful even if with a moderate cash shop.
But I'm just saying some games have really bad cash shop. There is a level of pay 2 win between cashshop of different games.
Comments
That's a quote from Dave summarizing his 2009 GDC lecture on MMO AI.
http://intrinsicalgorithm.com/IAonAI/2016/03/on-everquest-next-and-ai-driven-mmos/
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I am actually 100% behind the return to grass roots development, much of the kind we are seeing with Pantheon and others. I have been saying this for 5 years plus. The AAA mmorpg has been a cancer that has almost killed the genre.
I agree a huge leap in mmorpgs won't be seen until new tech becomes mainstream and an every household thing, but in the meantime the games coming up look fun to play to me and I am excited for the near future.
That's all I am saying. Revolutionary thought around these parts, I know.
In all honesty, you just seem annoyed that they weren't created in a couple of years, when their dev cycles have been perfectly normal.
The truth is that crowdfunding is only a mistake because it involves entitle impatient backers from an early stage, and this means being visible for far longer than they used to be, feeding that impatience. The other truth is that crowdfunding, while ofc has gone wrong, has also gone very very right in the gaming industry. Crowdfunding has delivered some amazing games that the AAA devs would never have touched. While I am critical of each project on it's own merits, I am actually quite an avid crowdfunding advocate for the power it gives grass roots passion led devs. It's too easy to constantly look at the negatives in everything and just moan.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
A good game will be good if it is designed well....and if a shop can "ruin" it, then it was never that good.
The same thing with the OLD SWG, it was never that good, for a large audience...and them re-doing it, did not change much in that regard.
The original players that loved the above games, were not happy with some changes, and just hastened people leaving.
This type of thing happens on every game. Same thing on EQ and WOW, and others... people clamor for "original" servers, but they rarely do as well as people think they will.
The truth is, what some feel is a perfect game...just isn't. But they would love to keep it the same, even after they stop playing, and paying, for the game:)
But hey! If everything is so wonderful why is there not a single MMORPG that I want to play? I have the money, I have more than enough time, and I love playing MMORPGS. The only one that I am looking forward to is Pantheon, and I worry that that game will be DOA.
And yes... games today are shallow, lack depth and are basically built with the current product marketing mindset that you only build enough to get somebody to pay for it and nothing more. Go read the lean product hand book and that will help you understand why you think you are getting something grand but in reality you are getting a stinking pile of shit but yet you still buy it.
And to be clear, you can ignore the millenial problem because let's face it, you probably are one and one of the things they do best is ignore problems and pretend they aren't there. Trust me when I say this, in software development your product represents your team, and if you have a team of millenials that product rarely gets done. All you have to do is look at the list of MMORPGs in the past 5 years that basically are not even close to releasing.
And one more thing that is kind of fun, if you ever want to see just how bad the millenial problem is go into a store, walmart whatever and when you are checking out question something.. anything, doesn't matter what it is. You can say I thought this milk was $1.99 but it rings up as $2.50? The millenial will crack every single time, they panic and don't know how to handle somebody actually confronting them on anything, they will give you the milk for free because they are to lazy to price check it.. they are so damn lazy they don't even want to type 1.99 into the register. I get so much free stuff this way it's hilarious, I'm not mean, not hateful in any way.. I just ask a question as nice as I can and they can't handle it.
It's kind of become a game, how nice can I be asking a question and still get free stuff. Just yesterday I picked up a pizza at Dominos and I said, "oh did I get a drink with that, maybe I didn't"... boom, they cracked, here have a mt dew.. don't worry about paying. lol
At this point, I'm doubtful I will get my money's worth. C'est la vie
It's not really that MMOs today are terrible. They just don't hit what I'm looking for anymore. The players today are the main reason, along with this incessant rush to some vaunted "end game", which I do not enjoy. Raiding has always been too chaotic for me. "Daily Chores" should be killed slowly and painfully. The lack of character advancement (How many MMOs have something like EQ's AA system?) makes the games pretty much meaningless to me.
Yet! I am happy that so many players today find a plethora of free, new games to rush through
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I know that is too much to ask for while big business/suits run this shit show. Variety doesn't bring in the "big bucks" fast enough for them
This is why I have no problem with these new MMOs, other than there is little, or minuscule variety. They just don't click with with me, which is fine. I don't "need" an MMORPG to play
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
We need a break in the lines to get back to game design quality,right now devs want to sell us promises,basic shells of a game.
When we step back look at the big picture we realize it will take a large developer,lots of money,this narrows down our chances dramatically.
My best hope/hunch was Epic games who had not yet broken out of the fps genre.Fortnite was their attmept,sadly even a giant like Epic went cartoony,lower budget,less risk.
This tells us that there is only a small handful,maybe 3/4/5 large devs that would even attempt a hq MMORPG.Then what are the odds those few games actually turn out HQ AAA,so now you see the problem we face hoping for HQ AAA mmorpg's.Expect more reskinned,copycat low budget offering for quite awhile.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I agree that there are certainly more MMOs out today (20 to 30+ 15 years ago vs 600+ today), but mathematically, there has to be, since there are still a lot of old MMOs still up and running with new ones releasing quite often.
Cable/satellite TV has "more channels", but unless one loves "Scripted, Edited-For-Drama" Reality Shows, there isn't much to choose from.
If, like the OP, one is excited for the changes in new MMOs, you're in heaven! More power to you! But don't expect all of us to drink the kool-aid
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Cant be serious. Back in the 'golden' era of MMOs and releases you had 5 or 6 premium MMOS (at the time all getting ready to release withing 18 months or so of each other...Rift, Lotro, AOC, Warhammer. Then you had some decent lower tier stuff like Pirate of the Burning Sea, Fallen Earth, Runes of Magic, Star Trek Online, Aoin, Tabula Rasa, and Allods. Technically thats like a 3 year window but most of those were within a two year window.
All we have now is a bunch of kickstarter trash that more than likely wont ever release or if they do they wont be of any consequence.
The top hyped games on this place (when they were announced and currently) one is going to go mobile (already has) and the other was what everyone said it was going to be...epic failure. Pantheon ironically is the one now seemingly with the most credibility. But it looks to be another fail for most with its group oriented design and lack of any real specifics other than the usual catch phrases everyone wants to read and hear.
Camelot that this has been getting made for how long now? I doubt it ever comes out. Crowfall same thing. Group focused and PvP focused double negative (which in this case doesnt make a positive). Lost Ark a failure around the world now coming to the west.... Saga of Lucimia. Another group focused game that is also using the term 'sandbox' which used to excite people but now should make them cringe. Especially the way its delivered.
Thats just the top ones on the hype page which doesnt mean much but other than Star Citizen I dont know of any other 'serious' (used in the loosest sense) efforts at making an MMO right now.
So from 4-2007 to 9-2009 you had at least 10 very playable to very good MMOS that actually released compared to a half dozen perpetual development games with questionable mechanics with maybe 3 of them having a real shot at delivering even a base game within the next 3-5 years and THIS is the time to be excited?
Like I said the OP has to be a joke.
If what is out there is not appealing to you, then that is what it is.
That does not mean in any sense that there is not a lot of out there to enjoy, nor that any of it is bad or good, as "Bad and Good" (Outside Direct Mechanical Issues) are matters of tastes as opposed to any kind of absolute.
Like for example, I enjoy BDO for a little while, but I just could not stand the UI. Ok.. matter of taste on my part, not working for me, but that in no way makes it a bad game, and buy the numbers many people are enjoying it. My wife loved the horses and had a lot of fun with that, one Guild mate even made a Barge to sale the Oceans with.. amazing stuff.. but.. the UI drove me nuts, so.. I burned out pretty quick on it. Still a great game and I would recommend it to anyone to at least try.
But, to each their own. It's like going out to eat, there could be a thousand restaurants in your city, but if none of them appeal to you, then there is "No place to eat out" equally so, there are many other people that may enjoy just trying a different one each week, and return to the ones they liked. But like eating out, I am not going to force you to dine out with me, if I am in some grease ball dive, slopping up a heart attack special with extra cheese and a side of seasoned double deep fried steak fries, and this is not where you want to eat, then, it's not for you.
The fact that you think I drank Kool-Aid because I am having fun playing what is available to me.. nahh bro.. that is not how it works.. this is my play time.. I am having fun, and that is all that matters. If you are not that is on you man... keep your sorrow to yourself.
I could see people getting upset if you PvP and people could buy gear and weapons with OP stats only in a cash shop. But I mostly PvE and find cash shops and loot boxes easy to ignore.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Maybe you are right, ArcheAge might not be successful even if with a moderate cash shop.
But I'm just saying some games have really bad cash shop. There is a level of pay 2 win between cashshop of different games.
LOLZ