MMOs and games are changing because society is changing (in regards to social aspects)

Baalzharon

Ever wonder why you can autogroup with people, do an entire dungeon, finish and not say one word?

Why MMOs becoming more solo oriented and less socialness required?

It isn't specifically because devs want to make singleplayer games, or they'd make a singleplayer game...but because that is how society is now

Go any public place, any place...how many people are talking to each other? Not saying a group of friends talking to each other, but how many people are talking to others outside their cliches? Or how many are not even talking?

Almost everyone is looking at their phones, saying nothing

Go to a hospital waiting room, everyone is on their phones, no one speaking to anyone or barely paying attention to anything going on. Seen teens ignoring their sick family members (grandparent(s) for example is one I see often) just to be on their phone

Go to a mall, and its only people talking to their own cliche friend groups, or sitting on their phones saying nothing

Go to a store, and a lot of people choose the self checkout line and not an actual line with a checkout clerk

As just some examples

It isn't exactly MMOs changing to be less social, it is the human race becoming less social as everyone tunes into their music or glued to their smartphone and saying nothing to each other unless they are talking to their own friends/family. But if one only talks to their own friends and not random people and it seeps into the MMO world, that doesn't make for a very social MMO. Nor does all the vast majority glued to their phones make for a very social atmosphere, which often seeps into video games as well.

Hatefull

I see both sides of this. 

I have had similar experiences to what you describe, but I have had the opposite also. I recently...well like 4 months ago moved to Hawaii and resumed a sport I had given up on a couple of decades back, Surfing.

From buying a board to paddling out to the lineup at my local spot the first time, I ran into nothing but very friendly and helpful people. As a matter of fact, several surfers in the lineup skipped waves to let me try and gave me advice until I got my 2nd first wave as I call it now.

Point being, I think if the situation calls for being social, it is still there, its just there are a lot of places where it's better to stay in your own little world. imo.

One of the big problems I have with games is: once the majority of the challenge was removed, people got bored so they started to look for ways to amuse themselves and a lot of times (in my experience) this was by "trolling" other people. Gear score too, instead of taking people on adventures people would just ignore others if you didn't have the proper gear score.

So it started with having to be in a guild full of people you could (hopefully) get along with in order to want to be social. And even then it sometimes still becomes unpleasant.

Then, there are just people out there that thrive on drama, and they have found their way into games. So after a while, chat gets muted if possible, you only group when forced to and let's face it, I have not played a game in a long time that forced me to group in order to do something I wanted to do. Anthem forces me to group but there is no chat other than voice, and lol you can turn that off!

You can't force people to behave and without the ability to hold people accountable for their actions, I am convinced we will see more and more games where chat is an option in any form.

Probably a good reason MMORPG games aren't worth making. No one wants to be social online anymore. Or comparatively few do I should say.

iixviiiix

So now people blame on social for bad game design ... though i have to admit that that kiddo those day rarely say thank you .

"Ever wonder why you can autogroup with people, do an entire dungeon, finish and not say one word?

Why MMOs becoming more solo oriented and less socialness required?"

Because it's rush gameplay , you rush from A to B then again and again , there are no time to talk , there are no time . You can't even enjoy the cinematic so talking is luxury

Why become more solo ? because they are ****ing singleplayer contents .

I meet another guy another day , play with him and it's ready fun . Then we meet again , but our level is difference , our progression content is difference , we can't adventure together anymore so we fall a parts

What's MMORPG problem ? they become too complex to connecting players , to rush to let players understand each other .

Wizardry

I don't agree because this was the MAJORITY of mmorpg players that resided in Wow since what 2004/5?
I have actually mentioned it MANY years ago that the majority of mmorpg players were not true rpg gamer's,they were more just new online gamer's that wanted to be a part of the popularity crowd.
To make a claim it is more about modern society is leaning on what basis,there were only a VERY small handful of games that were not linear solo minded games pretending to be mmos.

As far as the other popularity,the cheaply made games like the LOL/dota's and the BR's,well games that utilized BRAGGING rights have long been popular and why the aimbot became so popular 20 years ago.
Even the Esport aspect has been around a long time,we even had the Twitch equivalent of Justin.tv,we had the World Cyber games in Korea,MANY years "2000" before this modern era of gamer.

The only thing that has changed is developers have run out of niche markets to target,so we see these new  gaming modes that are really just new names but the EXACT same game play we have had for a very long time.These become more popular because they are VERY easy and cheap for developers to make,it is sort of like developers have FORCED a CHEAP market onto us by flooding the market with these low budget games.The market is simply WAY too over crowded for develoeprs to risk going large budget and long term,everything is a push to the fast dollar.

iixviiiix

Baalzharon said:

iixviiiix said:

So now people blame on social for bad game design ... though i have to admit that that kiddo those day rarely say thank you .

"Ever wonder why you can autogroup with people, do an entire dungeon, finish and not say one word?

Why MMOs becoming more solo oriented and less socialness required?"

Because it's rush gameplay , you rush from A to B then again and again , there are no time to talk , there are no time . You can't even enjoy the cinematic so talking is luxury

Why become more solo ? because they are ****ing singleplayer contents .

I meet another guy another day , play with him and it's ready fun . Then we meet again , but our level is difference , our progression content is difference , we can't adventure together anymore so we fall a parts

What's MMORPG problem ? they become too complex to connecting players , to rush to let players understand each other .

And in real life, people rush to do one thing, rush to go another place, so many people rushing around. So yeah thats part of it too. Todays world is a world full of driving in traffic, taking sardine packed subways and getting somewhere as fast as possible. That is a generalization, but that is the vast majority of the civilized world...people want to go somewhere in the quickest way, and rush everywhere.

Many people never take the time to take a stroll in a park, but work to barely pay for food and bills and rushing to work and home in hours of traffic. Now of course that isn't everyone, but mostly I see people rushing there and wherever they go to do get to their destination as quick as possible without taking side streets or enjoying the beauty of earth.

So, that still relates to society changing and MMOs just keeping with that change.

Yeah yeah , sure .

dave6660

The cell phone zombie apocalypse is upon us!

I do find it funny when they blindly walk into traffic.  Unfortunately the drivers try not to hit them.

Akulas

There are more casual than hard core gamers out there and it makes good business choice to cater for the lowest common denominator. That's the danger of what happens when a genre becomes mainstream.

Xiaoki

Back the olden days of UO and EQ and the like MMOs were the social media of the time.

MMOs were how you talked to people from different countries, or shared complaints about your day with strangers or stayed in touch with friends.

But we have Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and whatever else is popular these days. So, people dont need MMOs for that kind of interaction anymore.

And without desire to talk to the other people in your group or guild or just in general you are playing just for the game and not the community. Thats why people use Group Finder to do a dungeon with complete randoms they dont talk to and rush through everything or just go solo the entire time. But MMOs dont have great gameplay so when the social aspect is removed and all you have left is the gameplay then people see how bad MMOs are.

iixviiiix

Akulas said:

There are more casual than hard core gamers out there and it makes good business choice to cater for the lowest common denominator. That's the danger of what happens when a genre becomes mainstream.

No , they make game for hard core , then low grade it to casual . But the core not change so we get a mess . Hard core players "yada yada too easy no no don't want it" while casual player say "what's this **** ?"

If they making game for casual players then there aren't any trash in first place . You know what's problem ? they don't even know what the **** they making .

If you want fact , why all casual game that not MMORPG is working well with great profit while MMORPG is falling ? because casual games make for casual player while MMORPG maker confused don't know what to do .

NorseGod

iixviiiix said:

Akulas said:

There are more casual than hard core gamers out there and it makes good business choice to cater for the lowest common denominator. That's the danger of what happens when a genre becomes mainstream.

No , they make game for hard core , then low grade it to casual . But the core not change so we get a mess . Hard core players "yada yada too easy no no don't want it" while casual player say "what's this **** ?"

If they making game for casual players then there aren't any trash in first place . You know what's problem ? they don't even know what the **** they making .

If you want fact , why all casual game that not MMORPG is working well with great profit while MMORPG is falling ? because casual games make for casual player while MMORPG maker confused don't know what to do .

Casuals are a revolving door of content locust. They complain for changes, but never stay long enough to see them implemented. meanwhile, the rest of us are left holding the bag for a game we never asked.

kitarad

If there was no auto join do you think people would talk more? I think they will macro the request and speak no more in the dungeon itself than if there was no auto join. Problem is you don't need strategy any more to do a dungeon. You don't need to mark mobs and crowd control and play carefully so no one speaks.

Spiider

No. Mmos changed because bankers see it now as income source. Games used to be made by gamers, and now they are made like IT projects in insurance companies. 6 years, millions spent and the result is 10% of what was promised 100% not liked by anyone, obsolete as soon as it came out. (Anthem for example). 

Scot

Xiaoki said:

Back the olden days of UO and EQ and the like MMOs were the social media of the time.

MMOs were how you talked to people from different countries, or shared complaints about your day with strangers or stayed in touch with friends.

But we have Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and whatever else is popular these days. So, people dont need MMOs for that kind of interaction anymore.

And without desire to talk to the other people in your group or guild or just in general you are playing just for the game and not the community. Thats why people use Group Finder to do a dungeon with complete randoms they dont talk to and rush through everything or just go solo the entire time. But MMOs dont have great gameplay so when the social aspect is removed and all you have left is the gameplay then people see how bad MMOs are.

The flaw of this argument (I agree with the rest) is we had bulletin boards forums and IRC before we had MMOs. It is not just that gamers started to use larger scale mediums of communication it is down to the increasing number of players who did not want to communicate, if you came from a soloing background why would you want to talk?

Ungood

I don't think we have changed socially, I think the nature of the game has changed and this has changed how people socialize.

If you look at EQ, a lot of the chatting was done during the down time, in-between fights and pulls, where you had to meditate back mana, and the like. These games had a lot of just sitting around and literally stuck doing nothing, I mean in EQ there were prep time for raids that would take hours just getting everyone together, sorted into groups, and ready to for this encounter, so this was a prime moment to chat with other players. But even in EQ, once the fight started, people shut up and fought, they knew their role, knew the rotations, and the better the group the faster the fights happened, the less people chatted. A great group was a group of constant pulls and no chit-chat even back then. 

Now in a modern game like GW2, when a player join s a group for a dungeon run, there is little to no downtime, even modern raids have little to no downtime, it is expected that players already know what they are doing, have researched the raid or dungeon, and you all get in and the goal is to get the dungeon over as fast as possible, and then go your merry way.

With things like Discord, it's easier to chat with your static and guild, it's also easier to realize people talk endless nonsense, which makes talking to just your static often the most enjoyable option. (Penny Arcade just did a few comic strips about this)

But even in games like GW2, if you hang around Lions Arch, where players are doing a lot of "Down Time" activity like crafting, buying and selling, etc, there is a huge amount of public chatting going on.

So people have not really changed, the game play has changed, it has become faster paced, less down time, and thus builds a situation where players do not have much opportunity or motive to just chat, and the more intense the game, the less players want to be distracted from it with non-game related ramblings.

But that is more the nature of the game design than players in fact not wanting to chat, as in games like GW2, there are often endless invites for players to join a discord channel for any long term events, like WvW for example.

Scorchien

ICQ for the win

Bananable

"MMOs and games are changing because society is changing"
Well yeah...but no.
Games always ve been for kids...and they are still for kids. Too bad new generation born with mobile in their hands havent seen real life at all. And like it wasnt enough...they have mobile internet now. >.>

First of all its not just about MMOs. SP/MP games, movies, cartoons and books are also affected (it happened like 5-4 years ago.)

But worst part is...that adults wont do anything about it...they start to pretend its good instead...in order to get MONEY ofc. 
SIGH

Here your beloved SE:
https://www.siliconera.com/2019/03/02/square-enix-appears-to-have-disabled-streaming-for-left-alive-amidst-a-rough-debut-in-japan/

AlBQuirky

Ungood said:

I don't think we have changed socially, I think the nature of the game has changed and this has changed how people socialize.

If you look at EQ, a lot of the chatting was done during the down time, in-between fights and pulls, where you had to meditate back mana, and the like. These games had a lot of just sitting around and literally stuck doing nothing, I mean in EQ there were prep time for raids that would take hours just getting everyone together, sorted into groups, and ready to for this encounter, so this was a prime moment to chat with other players. But even in EQ, once the fight started, people shut up and fought, they knew their role, knew the rotations, and the better the group the faster the fights happened, the less people chatted. A great group was a group of constant pulls and no chit-chat even back then. 

Now in a modern game like GW2, when a player join s a group for a dungeon run, there is little to no downtime, even modern raids have little to no downtime, it is expected that players already know what they are doing, have researched the raid or dungeon, and you all get in and the goal is to get the dungeon over as fast as possible, and then go your merry way.

With things like Discord, it's easier to chat with your static and guild, it's also easier to realize people talk endless nonsense, which makes talking to just your static often the most enjoyable option. (Penny Arcade just did a few comic strips about this)

But even in games like GW2, if you hang around Lions Arch, where players are doing a lot of "Down Time" activity like crafting, buying and selling, etc, there is a huge amount of public chatting going on.

So people have not really changed, the game play has changed, it has become faster paced, less down time, and thus builds a situation where players do not have much opportunity or motive to just chat, and the more intense the game, the less players want to be distracted from it with non-game related ramblings.

But that is more the nature of the game design than players in fact not wanting to chat, as in games like GW2, there are often endless invites for players to join a discord channel for any long term events, like WvW for example.

Unfortunately, "downtime" was deemed boring by too many players and was sliced away from MMOs. Along with many other "RPG" features

"Downtime" was when we not only interacted with our group, but also gave us time to eat, refresh our drinks, talk to the kids/significant other, walk the dog, do potty (bio) breaks, and so many "real life" interactions. "I'M NOT CLICKING THINGS! GET RID OF IT!!!!"

aummoid

Maybe we're just not that into you.

sausagemix

We all like to dawn nostalgia glasses and see things as better but you also have to remember how niche the MMO market was. Before WoW, MMOs werent common, major publishers didnt take note and they pretty much attracted people because of the RPG aspect. Heck, it was even rare at the time for many console games to have online modes or access. To expand the market, more tools and systems were implemented to appeal to a greater audience who simply wanted to play "the game." Pretty much all mass consumers of entertainment do so with little thoughtfulness, and considerations of others; they are just there for their immediate enjoyment. This has always been an part of popular media. I think players, majority wise, would have communicated just as little had the market been the same size. Most players play games just for "the game"... online or otherwise.

Amathe

My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."  

Kyleran

Scot said:

Xiaoki said:

Back the olden days of UO and EQ and the like MMOs were the social media of the time.

MMOs were how you talked to people from different countries, or shared complaints about your day with strangers or stayed in touch with friends.

But we have Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and whatever else is popular these days. So, people dont need MMOs for that kind of interaction anymore.

And without desire to talk to the other people in your group or guild or just in general you are playing just for the game and not the community. Thats why people use Group Finder to do a dungeon with complete randoms they dont talk to and rush through everything or just go solo the entire time. But MMOs dont have great gameplay so when the social aspect is removed and all you have left is the gameplay then people see how bad MMOs are.

The flaw of this argument (I agree with the rest) is we had bulletin boards forums and IRC before we had MMOs. It is not just that gamers started to use larger scale mediums of communication it is down to the increasing number of players who did not want to communicate, if you came from a soloing background why would you want to talk?

Thank you, thought I was only person who remembered "social media" was not invented when the first smart phone released. 

AOL was one of the largest,  my friend met his wife there 19 years ago, not to mention AIM.

MySpace launched in 2003, Facebook 2004, Twitter 2006, all existed during the heydays of early MMORPGS even if the masses were unaware. 

So I'm not willing to lay much of the blame on the existence of social media tools or their use on why MMORPGS are less social.

There is a far greater factor.....because their designs no longer encourage or even permit socialization in them.

I assume it's due to fact they cater now to a large audience which doesn't value it in their games.

These days I think I'm now one of the masses.

Tamanous

Well that's mostly shit, it's a limited point of view, and little to no proof of it translating across different genres of gaming. Your opinion sounds like a limited, large city dweller perspective and for social groups lacking a diversity of interest.

You asked:

"Why MMOs becoming more solo oriented and less socialness required?"

Then you go into social reasons as the only possible answer ... no proof, no metrics. Yet, ALL the metrics and historical proof clearly reveals that the trend toward mass audience, easy mode gaming is because the entire industry is kept afloat from F2P and micro-transactions models which only exist through maximum participate with maximum ease of entry so the RMT model is maximized.

Audiences vanish from markets when that market shifts dramatically to attract and entirely different audience. This isn't fucking rocket science. The audience is a reactive element of the transition and not the casual element.

Several mmorpg developers are creating legacy servers because of the increased interest for them. Nearly all big developers/distributors are re-organizing and shrinking because of their audience is becoming annoyed over their generic, meta-marketed products built to drain your wallet. The same push back will occur in the mobile market too ... just wait. The future mobile market crash will be massive. It is not sustainable.

The table top gaming industry is increasing around the world. These are real human beings getting together to play ... oddly despite them ALL having cell phones. Trends CLEARLY show that gamers are sick of the unified audience approach to development. 

The success of failure of Classic Wow will clearly reveal the true nature of the industry and it's culture. The trends however, clearly point to returning interests in niche gaming. 

sunandshadow

*headscratch*  Am I the only one who grew up being told "don't talk to strangers", "stranger danger", "be paranoid, be safe"...?  My parents didn't seem to expect me to grow out of this kind of social programming, since they were still repeating the same thing when I was in college...

Grunty

sunandshadow said:

*headscratch*  Am I the only one who grew up being told "don't talk to strangers", "stranger danger", "be paranoid, be safe"...?  My parents didn't seem to expect me to grow out of this kind of social programming, since they were still repeating the same thing when I was in college...



Nope,  I was repeatedly told as a child to not ask questions; that if someone wanted me to know something then they would tell me.  I'm over 60 and I still don't ask people questions.  It just never occurs to me to do so. 

People not talking to those outside their clique (not cliche) is and has been the norm for the U.S. for all of my life.