I would say design has a lot to do with it. Early MMORPG interactions came from trade and difficulty. Those were largely eliminated. Offering SOW/teleport or face to face trading items or need to group up to kill something or need to group up to fight PKs/Anti's and etc have simply been eliminated. Even forced group content is so face roll you don't need to talk but to say hurry.
The social aspects are all in the elite end of things most players don't participate in.
*headscratch* Am I the only one who grew up being told "don't talk to strangers", "stranger danger", "be paranoid, be safe"...? My parents didn't seem to expect me to grow out of this kind of social programming, since they were still repeating the same thing when I was in college...
Nope, I was repeatedly told as a child to not ask questions; that if someone wanted me to know something then they would tell me. I'm over 60 and I still don't ask people questions. It just never occurs to me to do so.
People not talking to those outside their clique (not cliche) is and has been the norm for the U.S. for all of my life.
Also, we were told to "go play."
The parents didn't care where, could have been over in the foundry or abandoned coal mine, as long as we were...."home before dark."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
*headscratch* Am I the only one who grew up being told "don't talk to strangers", "stranger danger", "be paranoid, be safe"...? My parents didn't seem to expect me to grow out of this kind of social programming, since they were still repeating the same thing when I was in college...
Nope, I was repeatedly told as a child to not ask questions; that if someone wanted me to know something then they would tell me. I'm over 60 and I still don't ask people questions. It just never occurs to me to do so.
People not talking to those outside their clique (not cliche) is and has been the norm for the U.S. for all of my life.
Also, we were told to "go play."
The parents didn't care where, could have been over in the foundry or abandoned coal mine, as long as we were...."home before dark."
Add another "old timer remembrance" to this list. At 56, it surprises me what people share online with strangers. "My so and so died." So what? I don't know you. I don't know so and so. I'm sorry they died, but did I ask? What am I supposed to do? Ask for the time of the funeral?
When I was growing up, political associations were "hush hush." So was anything regarding sex, at least in my home. Now, these intimate details are shouted from every available rooftop and especially online to strangers.
However, I also "small talked" to cashiers or waitstaff. I said (and still do) say please and thank you. It's not like I never spoke to strangers. But like @sunandshadow, I was warned away from adults.
I also "lived" on AOL in the 90's. Those message boards were great. I had accounts with AIM, mIRC, and Yahoo messenger. I didn't use them much, unless something was planned, but I was aware of them
It seems like massively multiplayer games would have gotten more social, not less. But they certainly have become less social. I guess people just "don't have time" to be social anymore, thus the twitter character limit, the bastardization of the English language, the news in 5 second soundbytes and headlines, and the dismissal of good manners and etiquette.
I'm such an old fart! I even got a new badge when March began: "Ancient Membership" badge!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I don't think things have changed, way back when Everquest was new, gaming was pretty much the domain of 'gaming nerds' player numbers were very much lower than today where having even 200,000 players was a big deal, nobody thought about player numbers in terms of millions. As such it was a smaller perhaps 'more compatible' community where people could relate more easily, if there is one thing i remember from my days in Everquest, SWG, Earth and Beyond etc. is just how great the gaming community in those games was. The only change as i see things is that the larger and more inclusive games became and those 'millions' became a thing, is that community became less and less, people related less, its a shame but i think this is normal. As with communities IRL finding likeminded 'compatible' personalities takes time, Guilds are important but finding the 'right one' isn't easy and it often happens that you move from one game to the next without finding that 'right guild', i think a lot of players end up being mostly solo players because they just don't meet enough of the 'right people' or perhaps just communicating is difficult enough that the social aspects are insufficient to forming social communities, the recent games such as Anthem, Destiny 2 etc. are clear examples of games that have little to no social interraction by design.
I don't think things have changed, way back when Everquest was new, gaming was pretty much the domain of 'gaming nerds' player numbers were very much lower than today where having even 200,000 players was a big deal, nobody thought about player numbers in terms of millions. As such it was a smaller perhaps 'more compatible' community where people could relate more easily, if there is one thing i remember from my days in Everquest, SWG, Earth and Beyond etc. is just how great the gaming community in those games was. The only change as i see things is that the larger and more inclusive games became and those 'millions' became a thing, is that community became less and less, people related less, its a shame but i think this is normal. As with communities IRL finding likeminded 'compatible' personalities takes time, Guilds are important but finding the 'right one' isn't easy and it often happens that you move from one game to the next without finding that 'right guild', i think a lot of players end up being mostly solo players because they just don't meet enough of the 'right people' or perhaps just communicating is difficult enough that the social aspects are insufficient to forming social communities, the recent games such as Anthem, Destiny 2 etc. are clear examples of games that have little to no social interraction by design.
Heck, the MMORPG community of 1998 to 2003 was just smarter overall and certainly more computer saavy than it is today.
Don't believe me? One did not just load up a game and play. You had to buy a higher tier PC, specific video cards, config "Winduhs" and tweak the heck outta of it, and regularly troubleshoot problems.
When WOW came out I helped parents of 4 or 5 of my sons friends get their home PCs up to snuff so their children could play it. (And it was by no means a game which challenged a normal pPC)
Back when playing DAOC I recall trading optimization stories with the father of the only other friend my son knew who played MMORPGs, it just was not a thing for the average person.
Even today it appears many of the complaints people have about new games are a result of them using underperforming hardware which they have little understanding of how to troubleshoot.
Instead is saying "this game's performance sux" they should be looking at the quality of their gear.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Go to a store, and a lot of people choose the self checkout line and not an actual line with a checkout clerk"
That has nothing to do with "society" but rather that automation has made it easier and in many cases quicker to self checkout then go through the line.
People haven't changed, but the diversity and size of the modern online-game player group has changed dramatically since the days of EQ and UO.
MMO developers tried to adapt to the rapidly expanding player group, by stripping out all the so-called "down time" that existed in the old games. They reduced player inter-dependence massively, because the "average player" didn't like it...
All to no avail. Now we know what the "average player" really wanted: Fortnite and PUBG !
I do think it is a modern thing. People/players don't need to talk, and so don't bother. I was used to the DAoC way, you helped players, buffed players, handed out gold (if you had loads) to newbies, and others would be the same, you asked a question and got a real answer (instead of Git Gud, Learn to play or Google it!). Has later MMO's had a hand in it by making crap like LFG/LFR... I think so. If anything it's made me more antisocial, and wanting to play solo or with only family/friends. I quit FFXIV because of the "you must do the trials" to progress the story... wait around to play with strangers? Hell no! (yup, it's a sad state of affairs).
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
What did you expect OP? I dont want to be MeTooed because I said hi to some girl. Same rules apply here. I rather get what I want and keep it pushing respectfully.
Well on the under performing hardware idea,these devs are not doing their work to make sure the game runs efficiently.IMO the systems we have now a days and comparing the VERY small changes in games from yesteryear to today,these games should be running at breakneck speeds.
I mean we can obviously see how games are loading in as we go to lower the system strain but there is a lot more that can be done.There is in reality only one reason we need more power and that is graphics.Well so happens we had some pretty decent textures 20 years ago so that leaves just one arena left...mesh quality.This area has also been improved over the years to the point a developer can simply press a button and their mesh/work/model is automatically changed to lower the poly count.Point being the cost of having better looking models/work is no longer that tough to achieve,so then WHY are games running so poorly besides loading more objects on the screen?
Well geesh it's staring us right in the face>>EARLY ACCESS !!.You think devs are putting in more work than they want to,pfft,they are releasing total crap,bugs all over the place,memory leaks,they are using the early access gimmick/EXCUSE to support unfinished game design,POOR quality game design.
So then developers take notice,whoa this is an awesome idea,so now all the developers are doing it.So we are being forced developer agenda based on greed and undermining the law and unless we just stop spending money on gaming,it will only get worse when devs think of new ideas/scams.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I feel like marketing and advertising have always targeted young people, and the young people of today do seem more disconnected. Which comes first the chicken or the egg? Hard to say. Did we make them this way or have they made us this way?
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."
Was walking into work yesterday across a very long parking lot.. The temperature was 2 degrees freezing cold wind blowing hard and still dark. I passed by this girl playing a video game on her phone as she was walking in...... Would that qualify as a millennial ?
My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."
Was walking into work yesterday across a very long parking lot.. The temperature was 2 degrees freezing cold wind blowing hard and still dark. I passed by this girl playing a video game on her phone as she was walking in...... Would that qualify as a millennial ?
We like to take the micky out of what the "youth" get up to, but let's be honest we did far dafter things than that.
I don't think things have changed, way back when Everquest was new, gaming was pretty much the domain of 'gaming nerds' player numbers were very much lower than today where having even 200,000 players was a big deal, nobody thought about player numbers in terms of millions. As such it was a smaller perhaps 'more compatible' community where people could relate more easily, if there is one thing i remember from my days in Everquest, SWG, Earth and Beyond etc. is just how great the gaming community in those games was. The only change as i see things is that the larger and more inclusive games became and those 'millions' became a thing, is that community became less and less, people related less, its a shame but i think this is normal. As with communities IRL finding likeminded 'compatible' personalities takes time, Guilds are important but finding the 'right one' isn't easy and it often happens that you move from one game to the next without finding that 'right guild', i think a lot of players end up being mostly solo players because they just don't meet enough of the 'right people' or perhaps just communicating is difficult enough that the social aspects are insufficient to forming social communities, the recent games such as Anthem, Destiny 2 etc. are clear examples of games that have little to no social interraction by design.
Heck, the MMORPG community of 1998 to 2003 was just smarter overall and certainly more computer saavy than it is today.
Don't believe me? One did not just load up a game and play. You had to buy a higher tier PC, specific video cards, config "Winduhs" and tweak the heck outta of it, and regularly troubleshoot problems.
When WOW came out I helped parents of 4 or 5 of my sons friends get their home PCs up to snuff so their children could play it. (And it was by no means a game which challenged a normal pPC)
Back when playing DAOC I recall trading optimization stories with the father of the only other friend my son knew who played MMORPGs, it just was not a thing for the average person.
Even today it appears many of the complaints people have about new games are a result of them using underperforming hardware which they have little understanding of how to troubleshoot.
Instead is saying "this game's performance sux" they should be looking at the quality of their gear.
Ah the joys of editing the autoexec.bat and config.sys files to make game run our p.o.s old beige boxes. Good times good times.
If I never see a DMA requirement or jumper pair, it will be too soon
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I don't think things have changed, way back when Everquest was new, gaming was pretty much the domain of 'gaming nerds' player numbers were very much lower than today where having even 200,000 players was a big deal, nobody thought about player numbers in terms of millions. As such it was a smaller perhaps 'more compatible' community where people could relate more easily, if there is one thing i remember from my days in Everquest, SWG, Earth and Beyond etc. is just how great the gaming community in those games was. The only change as i see things is that the larger and more inclusive games became and those 'millions' became a thing, is that community became less and less, people related less, its a shame but i think this is normal. As with communities IRL finding likeminded 'compatible' personalities takes time, Guilds are important but finding the 'right one' isn't easy and it often happens that you move from one game to the next without finding that 'right guild', i think a lot of players end up being mostly solo players because they just don't meet enough of the 'right people' or perhaps just communicating is difficult enough that the social aspects are insufficient to forming social communities, the recent games such as Anthem, Destiny 2 etc. are clear examples of games that have little to no social interraction by design.
Heck, the MMORPG community of 1998 to 2003 was just smarter overall and certainly more computer saavy than it is today.
Don't believe me? One did not just load up a game and play. You had to buy a higher tier PC, specific video cards, config "Winduhs" and tweak the heck outta of it, and regularly troubleshoot problems.
When WOW came out I helped parents of 4 or 5 of my sons friends get their home PCs up to snuff so their children could play it. (And it was by no means a game which challenged a normal pPC)
Back when playing DAOC I recall trading optimization stories with the father of the only other friend my son knew who played MMORPGs, it just was not a thing for the average person.
Even today it appears many of the complaints people have about new games are a result of them using underperforming hardware which they have little understanding of how to troubleshoot.
Instead is saying "this game's performance sux" they should be looking at the quality of their gear.
Ah the joys of editing the autoexec.bat and config.sys files to make game run our p.o.s old beige boxes. Good times good times.
I'm glad the days of trying to free up as much conventional memory as possible are long gone.
From everquest > wow, companies began to see potential to make money. However they wanted to build them their way (short 30 days games). They ran a marketing campaign to tell people "this is what you like"... So that's what we got.
My daughter's phone broke a few years ago, She was sad and said "I have no phone. I'm a broken millennial."
Was walking into work yesterday across a very long parking lot.. The temperature was 2 degrees freezing cold wind blowing hard and still dark. I passed by this girl playing a video game on her phone as she was walking in...... Would that qualify as a millennial ?
We like to take the micky out of what the "youth" get up to, but let's be honest we did far dafter things than that.
Platform heel shoes, silk shirts, and plaid bell bottoms for men immediately come to mind.
Never wearing seatbelts while drinking and driving are right up there as well.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
The social aspects are all in the elite end of things most players don't participate in.
The parents didn't care where, could have been over in the foundry or abandoned coal mine, as long as we were...."home before dark."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When I was growing up, political associations were "hush hush." So was anything regarding sex, at least in my home. Now, these intimate details are shouted from every available rooftop and especially online to strangers.
However, I also "small talked" to cashiers or waitstaff. I said (and still do) say please and thank you. It's not like I never spoke to strangers. But like @sunandshadow, I was warned away from adults.
I also "lived" on AOL in the 90's. Those message boards were great. I had accounts with AIM, mIRC, and Yahoo messenger. I didn't use them much, unless something was planned, but I was aware of them
It seems like massively multiplayer games would have gotten more social, not less. But they certainly have become less social. I guess people just "don't have time" to be social anymore, thus the twitter character limit, the bastardization of the English language, the news in 5 second soundbytes and headlines, and the dismissal of good manners and etiquette.
I'm such an old fart! I even got a new badge when March began: "Ancient Membership" badge!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Don't believe me? One did not just load up a game and play. You had to buy a higher tier PC, specific video cards, config "Winduhs" and tweak the heck outta of it, and regularly troubleshoot problems.
When WOW came out I helped parents of 4 or 5 of my sons friends get their home PCs up to snuff so their children could play it. (And it was by no means a game which challenged a normal pPC)
Back when playing DAOC I recall trading optimization stories with the father of the only other friend my son knew who played MMORPGs, it just was not a thing for the average person.
Even today it appears many of the complaints people have about new games are a result of them using underperforming hardware which they have little understanding of how to troubleshoot.
Instead is saying "this game's performance sux" they should be looking at the quality of their gear.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I had to do that barefoot
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
That has nothing to do with "society" but rather that automation has made it easier and in many cases quicker to self checkout then go through the line.
Let's party like it is 1863!
MMO developers tried to adapt to the rapidly expanding player group, by stripping out all the so-called "down time" that existed in the old games. They reduced player inter-dependence massively, because the "average player" didn't like it...
All to no avail. Now we know what the "average player" really wanted: Fortnite and PUBG !
I was used to the DAoC way, you helped players, buffed players, handed out gold (if you had loads) to newbies, and others would be the same, you asked a question and got a real answer (instead of Git Gud, Learn to play or Google it!).
Has later MMO's had a hand in it by making crap like LFG/LFR... I think so. If anything it's made me more antisocial, and wanting to play solo or with only family/friends.
I quit FFXIV because of the "you must do the trials" to progress the story... wait around to play with strangers? Hell no! (yup, it's a sad state of affairs).
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I mean we can obviously see how games are loading in as we go to lower the system strain but there is a lot more that can be done.There is in reality only one reason we need more power and that is graphics.Well so happens we had some pretty decent textures 20 years ago so that leaves just one arena left...mesh quality.This area has also been improved over the years to the point a developer can simply press a button and their mesh/work/model is automatically changed to lower the poly count.Point being the cost of having better looking models/work is no longer that tough to achieve,so then WHY are games running so poorly besides loading more objects on the screen?
Well geesh it's staring us right in the face>>EARLY ACCESS !!.You think devs are putting in more work than they want to,pfft,they are releasing total crap,bugs all over the place,memory leaks,they are using the early access gimmick/EXCUSE to support unfinished game design,POOR quality game design.
So then developers take notice,whoa this is an awesome idea,so now all the developers are doing it.So we are being forced developer agenda based on greed and undermining the law and unless we just stop spending money on gaming,it will only get worse when devs think of new ideas/scams.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Question answered
Never wearing seatbelts while drinking and driving are right up there as well.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon