I know these 2 games released at around the same time, but why compare them?
I'm just glad they aren't the only 2 choices because I'm not too interested in either actually.
Both are simple games that don't really let you do much.
It's really lame that the game industry is so far behind the curve on product development.
How can you say both games don't allow you to do much if you have have never played them? Division 2 has so much to do that its overwhelming at times. Most of them tasks are varied as well. Sure you will do a handful of things multiple times but they really do a lot to mix it up and I have heard that is even amplified during end game
Because . . . they actually tell you what you can do in the game? Or was that a trick question?!?!
So, what did you mean by let you do much? Because if you meant content, you're just flat out wrong. Division 2 has launched with more content than any other title in the genre.
How much of that content is you looking like a homeless person walking somewhere and killing people with weapons that shoot pieces of lead at high velocity?
This is an MMORPG site, MMORPGs tend to have the widest variety of available activities, is it really so surprising that a simple MMO shooter wouldn't be enough? What do you think is so awesome about this game?
Even looking at it and as an MMO shooter, which some would say it isn't even, what can you do in the game besides fight and do the usual type array of combat adjacent activities? Escorts, fetches, scouting. There are no vehicles, no base building, right?
The Division is a hard sell from the beginning for me, as I have never been than interested in "realistic" games. I tried the first one to play with some friends who wanted to try it out, but I found that playing with disparate level characters didn't work well. Anthem should be more along my line being SF, but it is very limiting only playing humans in power armour. There are only about 5 bazillions games where you do that. If everyone can fly it's just how you get somehwere. And once again only a fighting game. If I compare either of those games to Borderlands 2 (fresh on my mind for some reason) a 7 year old game, they should be better in every way, right? The winners are: Story: BL2 Variety of gameplay: BL2 Art Style: BL2 Player Character Variety: BL2 Team play: BL2 Vehicles: BL2 Neurotic robot content: BL2 VidCalls from antagonist: BL2
I know some of those are silly, and all are personal opinion, but to me, the game industry is now so stagnant. Game technology is way behind the hardware side. Companies aren't learning from previous games. The Division 2 may be better than the original, which is good, and comparing it with other games recently it might be outstanding, but in the refuse heap that is the industry now, it's really nothing special.
Shooters, as a genre, have always, always had entries that focused almost solely on the shooting experience. Way before looter shooters. Unreal Tournament. Call of Duty. Quake. L4D. Half-Life. Need I go on?
You mentioned base building and stuff like that's a prerequisite, then used a game as an example that has nothing of the like. Seriously, the biggest differences between BL2 and Div2 have very little to do with the gameplay systems themselves, and more to do with three things: the narrative focus of BL2, point of view, and setting/art style. That's it.
Indeed, not every game needs to be chock full of random BS activities or features- just take a look at WoW. How many of those pet battles and other sideshow bullshit are gonna keep that game afloat if it continues to slide? None. Nobody looked at BfA and said "but hey, they added some great battle pets!! 8/10!!"
I'm fact, with the condition of most crafting systems in modern MMORPGs, those systems are little more than a sideshow, too. Survival games do it better. And that's a theme for MMORPGs, by the way:
Combat? Even for melee, Arkham series, Kingdom Come, Witcher 3- all do it better.
Exploration? Dark Souls, Kingdom Come, Red Dead Redemption, Elder Scrolls, list goes on and on. They do it better.
Character building? Pillars, Diablo, Neverwinter Nights, Elder Scrolls, again, on and on.
What use is it to shove your game full of half-baked, shallow systems when it's quite obvious gamers as a whole seem to appreciate doing one or a few things really well? MMORPGs can learn a thing or two from other genres, bringing a sharper focus on doing a handful of things really well and putting those things in a massively multiplayer setting.
Div2 is exactly what Massive wanted it to be: a looter shooter in a near-future sci-fi setting chock full of quality content to play. Had they attempted adding a bunch of random stuff to that mix, they would've likely ended up like Anthem.
Ok . . . I'll just have to go back to my stance of my comment not being that unusual on an mmorpg site then.
I guess you missed the part where I was expecting games now to be all around better than games from 7 years ago.
You post overall seems more apologetic for the game then explaining how awesome it is. As long as you are enjoying it who cares what I expect?
My bar is reasonably set higher though. I know much better games can be made.
What? Kingdom Come, Witcher 3... Pillars. None of these games are 7 years old.
Not every game needs to push the boundaries of what is possible. Some games can just refine the formula into a really fun experience. That's what Div2 is.
There's nothing to be apologetic about- critical reviews echo the sentiment I've laid out here, universally and without controversy. Your avoiding acknowledging that means nothing but that you're unable to acknowledge a quality product that you don't personally have a taste for.
Ok . . . I'll just have to go back to my stance of my comment not being that unusual on an mmorpg site then.
I guess you missed the part where I was expecting games now to be all around better than games from 7 years ago.
You post overall seems more apologetic for the game then explaining how awesome it is. As long as you are enjoying it who cares what I expect?
My bar is reasonably set higher though. I know much better games can be made.
What? Kingdom Come, Witcher 3... Pillars. None of these games are 7 years old.
Not every game needs to push the boundaries of what is possible. Some games can just refine the formula into a really fun experience. That's what Div2 is.
There's nothing to be apologetic about- critical reviews echo the sentiment I've laid out here, universally and without controversy. Your avoiding acknowledging that means nothing but that you're unable to acknowledge a quality product that you don't personally have a taste for.
You said Borderlands didn't have the gameplay I mentioned, hence the 7 year old comment.
I didn't say all games do need to push that boundary. If you see what my original comment was I don't see what we are arguing about. You seem to be agreeing with me that you can't do that much in these games. I never inferred what you can do is sub-par. I'm just not interested in a game like that. And on an MMORPG site that seems like a normal reaction.
Ok . . . I'll just have to go back to my stance of my comment not being that unusual on an mmorpg site then.
I guess you missed the part where I was expecting games now to be all around better than games from 7 years ago.
You post overall seems more apologetic for the game then explaining how awesome it is. As long as you are enjoying it who cares what I expect?
My bar is reasonably set higher though. I know much better games can be made.
What? Kingdom Come, Witcher 3... Pillars. None of these games are 7 years old.
Not every game needs to push the boundaries of what is possible. Some games can just refine the formula into a really fun experience. That's what Div2 is.
There's nothing to be apologetic about- critical reviews echo the sentiment I've laid out here, universally and without controversy. Your avoiding acknowledging that means nothing but that you're unable to acknowledge a quality product that you don't personally have a taste for.
You said Borderlands didn't have the gameplay I mentioned, hence the 7 year old comment.
I didn't say all games do need to push that boundary. If you see what my original comment was I don't see what we are arguing about. You seem to be agreeing with me that you can't do that much in these games. I never inferred what you can do is sub-par. I'm just not interested in a game like that. And on an MMORPG site that seems like a normal reaction.
My first post asked you to clarify "let you do much," and you defined it as being able to do a ton of random different things, implying the game was of lower quality than you expect because of it. My counter is that the fact Div2 knows what it is and doesn't try to shovel a bunch of other stuff into it IS the reason it's such a fun and high-quality game.
It has crafting but it's not the focus. The results. Well, it's as useful as crafting in any MMORPG. Moreso, really, because you definitely want to use the weapon attachments you craft, while leveling and at endgame.
It has base building via mission completion, but it's again, not a focus. But most MMORPGs offer no base building systems whatsoever. It serves the purpose of pacing the addition of other systems over the course of the main mission line.
And again: had they attempted to make these systems into something more, they likely would've ended up with a game that was less fun and less polished. Anthem showed us that taking gamers away from the core loop over and over is frustrating. Division 2 doesn't make that mistake.
Ok . . . I'll just have to go back to my stance of my comment not being that unusual on an mmorpg site then.
I guess you missed the part where I was expecting games now to be all around better than games from 7 years ago.
You post overall seems more apologetic for the game then explaining how awesome it is. As long as you are enjoying it who cares what I expect?
My bar is reasonably set higher though. I know much better games can be made.
What? Kingdom Come, Witcher 3... Pillars. None of these games are 7 years old.
Not every game needs to push the boundaries of what is possible. Some games can just refine the formula into a really fun experience. That's what Div2 is.
There's nothing to be apologetic about- critical reviews echo the sentiment I've laid out here, universally and without controversy. Your avoiding acknowledging that means nothing but that you're unable to acknowledge a quality product that you don't personally have a taste for.
You said Borderlands didn't have the gameplay I mentioned, hence the 7 year old comment.
I didn't say all games do need to push that boundary. If you see what my original comment was I don't see what we are arguing about. You seem to be agreeing with me that you can't do that much in these games. I never inferred what you can do is sub-par. I'm just not interested in a game like that. And on an MMORPG site that seems like a normal reaction.
My first post asked you to clarify "let you do much," and you defined it as being able to do a ton of random different things, implying the game was of lower quality than you expect because of it. My counter is that the fact Div2 knows what it is and doesn't try to shovel a bunch of other stuff into it IS the reason it's such a fun and high-quality game.
It has crafting but it's not the focus. The results. Well, it's as useful as crafting in any MMORPG. Moreso, really, because you definitely want to use the weapon attachments you craft, while leveling and at endgame.
It has base building via mission completion, but it's again, not a focus. But most MMORPGs offer no base building systems whatsoever. It serves the purpose of pacing the addition of other systems over the course of the main mission line.
And again: had they attempted to make these systems into something more, they likely would've ended up with a game that was less fun and less polished. Anthem showed us that taking gamers away from the core loop over and over is frustrating. Division 2 doesn't make that mistake.
I'm pretty sure quality and the variety of options a product has aren't at all related. You are taking what may very well be a very good knife and pushing it on a food processor site. Sure other people into food processors may also want a good knife, and they aren't mutually exclusive tools, but am I wrong to say the knife doesn't have all the features I want? Something can be good and simple, no? I just didn't see the point in comparing 2 different knives when they should be reviewed individually, and especially not on a food processor site.
And agree to disagree that simpler games are better. Will a game with a simple budget be able to make a good complex one? No, and that is the problem. You should be able to make a high-quality multifaceted game with enough appeal to make a good ROI. It's been done with phones, and TVs shows and no one is looking back. Hopefully someday soon someone will pull a Steve Jobs on the game industry and I will say I told you so but you'll accept it because we have much better games to play
Happened to see this today....wonder if it's true?
I guess I'd be under "guilt," but I wouldn't call it guilt.
I fucking love Anthem's gameplay still. I still play every few days. It's just that it fails in so many of its periphial aspects that it's hard not to get incredibly frustrated.
It's like a 12/10 combat system hiding in a 3/10 shell.
I know some of those are silly, and all are personal opinion, but to me, the game industry is now so stagnant. Game technology is way behind the hardware side. Companies aren't learning from previous games. The Division 2 may be better than the original, which is good, and comparing it with other games recently it might be outstanding, but in the refuse heap that is the industry now, it's really nothing special.
The game industry is not stagnant or a refuse heap. You are just being cynical for cynicals sake. There are plenty of games that are pushing into new and exciting areas of creativity. Not being able to find the specific types of games you alone want to play does not mean the industry is failing to create. It means you are finding it hard to discover those titles. Maybe phone a friend or find a trusted curator to help you discover some of the amazing projects out there for you to explore!
I'm actually an optimist or I would be trying to contact people at like Reed Hastings about bigger better games :P But I also call em like I see em.
I never said there aren't any good games. I just think there could be way better bigger ones, especially in the MMORPG arena. And there are way more crap games than good ones. So if it's mostly garbage with a few exceptions I think I am safe in calling it a refuse heap. Technology isn't keeping The Oasis from appearing. It's lack of insight at the top of the gaming industry.
I know some of those are silly, and all are personal opinion, but to me, the game industry is now so stagnant. Game technology is way behind the hardware side. Companies aren't learning from previous games. The Division 2 may be better than the original, which is good, and comparing it with other games recently it might be outstanding, but in the refuse heap that is the industry now, it's really nothing special.
The game industry is not stagnant or a refuse heap. You are just being cynical for cynicals sake. There are plenty of games that are pushing into new and exciting areas of creativity. Not being able to find the specific types of games you alone want to play does not mean the industry is failing to create. It means you are finding it hard to discover those titles. Maybe phone a friend or find a trusted curator to help you discover some of the amazing projects out there for you to explore!
I agree. I have said this multiple times, but I believe we're in a golden age, not a refuse heap. Gaming is the best it has ever been, unless you have specific tastes which are not being supplied, with multiple best-games-of-all-time flooding in annually.
Problem is, we're too busy focusing on the negatives. The Activisions and EAs of the world are receiving so much of our attention that the many gems we're getting from more competent developers are being taken for granted.
And no, I don't think you have to play indie games to appreciate gaming. I don't, aside from the more major indie studios like CDProjekt.
Comments
This is an MMORPG site, MMORPGs tend to have the widest variety of available activities, is it really so surprising that a simple MMO shooter wouldn't be enough? What do you think is so awesome about this game?
Even looking at it and as an MMO shooter, which some would say it isn't even, what can you do in the game besides fight and do the usual type array of combat adjacent activities? Escorts, fetches, scouting. There are no vehicles, no base building, right?
The Division is a hard sell from the beginning for me, as I have never been than interested in "realistic" games. I tried the first one to play with some friends who wanted to try it out, but I found that playing with disparate level characters didn't work well. Anthem should be more along my line being SF, but it is very limiting only playing humans in power armour. There are only about 5 bazillions games where you do that. If everyone can fly it's just how you get somehwere. And once again only a fighting game. If I compare either of those games to Borderlands 2 (fresh on my mind for some reason) a 7 year old game, they should be better in every way, right?
The winners are:
Story: BL2
Variety of gameplay: BL2
Art Style: BL2
Player Character Variety: BL2
Team play: BL2
Vehicles: BL2
Neurotic robot content: BL2
VidCalls from antagonist: BL2
I know some of those are silly, and all are personal opinion, but to me, the game industry is now so stagnant.
Game technology is way behind the hardware side. Companies aren't learning from previous games. The Division 2 may be better than the original, which is good, and comparing it with other games recently it might be outstanding, but in the refuse heap that is the industry now, it's really nothing special.
You mentioned base building and stuff like that's a prerequisite, then used a game as an example that has nothing of the like. Seriously, the biggest differences between BL2 and Div2 have very little to do with the gameplay systems themselves, and more to do with three things: the narrative focus of BL2, point of view, and setting/art style. That's it.
Indeed, not every game needs to be chock full of random BS activities or features- just take a look at WoW. How many of those pet battles and other sideshow bullshit are gonna keep that game afloat if it continues to slide? None. Nobody looked at BfA and said "but hey, they added some great battle pets!! 8/10!!"
I'm fact, with the condition of most crafting systems in modern MMORPGs, those systems are little more than a sideshow, too. Survival games do it better. And that's a theme for MMORPGs, by the way:
Combat? Even for melee, Arkham series, Kingdom Come, Witcher 3- all do it better.
Exploration? Dark Souls, Kingdom Come, Red Dead Redemption, Elder Scrolls, list goes on and on. They do it better.
Character building? Pillars, Diablo, Neverwinter Nights, Elder Scrolls, again, on and on.
What use is it to shove your game full of half-baked, shallow systems when it's quite obvious gamers as a whole seem to appreciate doing one or a few things really well? MMORPGs can learn a thing or two from other genres, bringing a sharper focus on doing a handful of things really well and putting those things in a massively multiplayer setting.
Div2 is exactly what Massive wanted it to be: a looter shooter in a near-future sci-fi setting chock full of quality content to play. Had they attempted adding a bunch of random stuff to that mix, they would've likely ended up like Anthem.
I guess you missed the part where I was expecting games now to be all around better than games from 7 years ago.
You post overall seems more apologetic for the game then explaining how awesome it is.
As long as you are enjoying it who cares what I expect?
My bar is reasonably set higher though. I know much better games can be made.
Not every game needs to push the boundaries of what is possible. Some games can just refine the formula into a really fun experience. That's what Div2 is.
There's nothing to be apologetic about- critical reviews echo the sentiment I've laid out here, universally and without controversy. Your avoiding acknowledging that means nothing but that you're unable to acknowledge a quality product that you don't personally have a taste for.
I didn't say all games do need to push that boundary. If you see what my original comment was I don't see what we are arguing about. You seem to be agreeing with me that you can't do that much in these games. I never inferred what you can do is sub-par. I'm just not interested in a game like that. And on an MMORPG site that seems like a normal reaction.
It has crafting but it's not the focus. The results. Well, it's as useful as crafting in any MMORPG. Moreso, really, because you definitely want to use the weapon attachments you craft, while leveling and at endgame.
It has base building via mission completion, but it's again, not a focus. But most MMORPGs offer no base building systems whatsoever. It serves the purpose of pacing the addition of other systems over the course of the main mission line.
And again: had they attempted to make these systems into something more, they likely would've ended up with a game that was less fun and less polished. Anthem showed us that taking gamers away from the core loop over and over is frustrating. Division 2 doesn't make that mistake.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
You are taking what may very well be a very good knife and pushing it on a food processor site. Sure other people into food processors may also want a good knife, and they aren't mutually exclusive tools, but am I wrong to say the knife doesn't have all the features I want? Something can be good and simple, no? I just didn't see the point in comparing 2 different knives when they should be reviewed individually, and especially not on a food processor site.
And agree to disagree that simpler games are better. Will a game with a simple budget be able to make a good complex one? No, and that is the problem. You should be able to make a high-quality multifaceted game with enough appeal to make a good ROI. It's been done with phones, and TVs shows and no one is looking back. Hopefully someday soon someone will pull a Steve Jobs on the game industry and I will say I told you so but you'll accept it because we have much better games to play
I fucking love Anthem's gameplay still. I still play every few days. It's just that it fails in so many of its periphial aspects that it's hard not to get incredibly frustrated.
It's like a 12/10 combat system hiding in a 3/10 shell.
But I also call em like I see em.
I never said there aren't any good games. I just think there could be way better bigger ones, especially in the MMORPG arena. And there are way more crap games than good ones. So if it's mostly garbage with a few exceptions I think I am safe in calling it a refuse heap. Technology isn't keeping The Oasis from appearing. It's lack of insight at the top of the gaming industry.
Problem is, we're too busy focusing on the negatives. The Activisions and EAs of the world are receiving so much of our attention that the many gems we're getting from more competent developers are being taken for granted.
And no, I don't think you have to play indie games to appreciate gaming. I don't, aside from the more major indie studios like CDProjekt.