Or maybe those who have actual talent to create versus the vast majority of the world that does not. Geez. What people or companies create rightly belongs to them. End of story.
Anyway, obviously if NCSoft doesn't want you to play City of Heroes, then you should listen to NCSoft. They aren't trying to hurt you, they are trying to make the most of their properties to better their business to deliver superior products to you. Stop acting like just because you love (OR need) something that it belongs to you. It doesn't. Not in whole or in part. It belongs to someone worth a damn who actually knows how to turn a profit.
I understand the challenges of copyright law. NCSoft was required to take action. I'm not new to this game.
But ultimately, it is NCSoft that chose not to sell these properties, which have no value to them, to an interested party. They are just another dragon hoarding treasure that they have no want nor use for. It's high time to slay that dragon.
I just picked your post out of many to quote that all were saying in essence the same thing. Apparently a troll posing as a lawyer caused all of this. The server team is new at this and panicked. NCsoft did not send a C&D letter. As far as I know, NCsoft still has not said anything about the private servers.
So there is hope... Honestly, I am pretty well convinced that NCsoft wrote off the value, a process that finished April 15th, or whatever tax day is in South Korea. At this point they still own the IP but it is evidently of no value to them accounting-wise. So how will this whole drama play out in the future? No one knows...
The value is if at some point in the future they decide they want to use it.
They can sit on it, make a new mmo out of it, make a mobile game out of it or put the likeness on a pin ball machine. They could put it in a book, or place it in a nook, or tippy, tippy, tippy toe to place it on a hook!
It's theirs to use when they want to use it. That's what owning an IP is all about. It's theirs. Theirs. They own it. Theirs.
It's as if some players can't understand that a company doesn't have to immediately use something they own. They can wait until it's advantageous to do so. Or, eventually, if they do think they won't use it they can sell it.
And it's almost as if you guys are wholesale labeling anyone not 100% agreeing with your entire take here as masked thieves who orchestrated the theft themselves and are cackling about it.
Both sides need to get the fuck off the high horse. Neither side here has any clue wtf they're talking about from a legal sense, it's all guesstimation based on what we've heard or seen from similar cases. However, only one seems to be trying to play a legal trump card in this discussion.
What I don't understand is why they sit on a dead IP and adamantly refuse to let anyone else do something about it. Sell it, license someone, reach a consensus with pvt servers...anything!
God damn greedy scumbags. They're doing all of this out of pure spite. With that said, the pvt server should've laid low. Because it seems there is no agreement with these. I understand their need to protect the IP, but they're acting all Fafnir / Smaug right now.
Perhaps, the more and longer people clamour for the CoH IP the more possible future revenue potential they see in it. Why dispose of that potential when there is no pressing need to do so.
If they are ever in dire need of a quick cash influx they may get rid of some of their less used properties, or make them otherwise available, but barring that it doesn't seem likely.
Attributing negative aspects to companies that take actions you don't like doesn't really make them so. After all, profit seeking led to the existence of CoH to begin with. It is neither inherently negative or positive, but simply the driving force of economy in free markets.
Intellectual property laws are holding humanity back and are rewarding only those who can afford expensive lawyers.
Or maybe those who have actual talent to create versus the vast majority of the world that does not. Geez. What people or companies create rightly belongs to them. End of story.
The bad faith of some gaming companies does not mean it is fine to steal the game and run it for yourselves. I do appreciate that with no recourse this could seem like a fair option for fans, but it is not.
It isn't a legal option. Whether it is a fair one is a totally different issue.
Intellectual property laws are holding humanity back and are rewarding only those who can afford expensive lawyers.
Or maybe those who have actual talent to create versus the vast majority of the world that does not. Geez. What people or companies create rightly belongs to them. End of story.
The bad faith of some gaming companies does not mean it is fine to steal the game and run it for yourselves. I do appreciate that with no recourse this could seem like a fair option for fans, but it is not.
It isn't a legal option. Whether it is a fair one is a totally different issue.
I am glad someone else can delineate between the two discussions.
Intellectual property laws are holding humanity back and are rewarding only those who can afford expensive lawyers.
Spoken like someone who's never created anything themselves. IP laws are an important protection for people and companies that put vast resources and knowledge into making new "products". Stealing someones IP is absolutely no different then having someone break into your house and steal your tv, assuming you actually paid for the tv yourself. That tv is yours, you went to work to earn money to buy it and nobody else has a right to simply come take it because they want a tv and can't earn one themselves.
By your logic the company that made the TV could come into your house and take it back.
While I agree with your overarching point in that too many see disparities between physical and virtual ownership that are really baseless, I will admit that things like code or artwork can more easily be reproduced or copied digitally and, as such, deserves more protections than physical goods.
However, refusing to provide the necessary service to allow consumers to continue using a product they purchased AND actively preventing consumers from providing the service for themselves without seeking any financial gain is not a warranted protection.
Intellectual property laws are holding humanity back and are rewarding only those who can afford expensive lawyers.
Or maybe those who have actual talent to create versus the vast majority of the world that does not. Geez. What people or companies create rightly belongs to them. End of story.
"When copyright law was first codified in the United States pursuant to the United States Copyright Act, the copyright duration was limited to 14 years. Today, copyrights can last over 100 years. That’s a huge change, and there are an overwhelming number of copyright experts that will tell you that it is all because of a mouse."
They'll eventually push for copyright in perpetuity. Because...money.
Also, neo-legalists seem to think that because there's a law, everything works the way it's supposed. Real world is very different.
Also a note: NCSoft did not do any 'creation' in CoH. They didn't understand it, didn't particularly care for it, and let it lay fallow for years. They bought it, they killed it. Now they can't just go 'business' as usual. But they can decide what avenue is best for their company, given the new state of affairs.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
NCSoft is like the bratty spoiled child that shows everyone their toys but then whines and complains if someone touches them.
Seriously I don't understand why they care if a private server is up as long as it's not making a profit. If they are that up their own ass about COH, re-release the damn thing and make money off of it again. People *liked* it, I *liked* it, and I'm not one to like superhero games!
do you even understandf how ignorant your statement is ? Think gamers have a delusion that things they have no rights to, are theirs for the taking, now I wont get political, but this is trend that is building and it will destroy everything in its wake...
Entitled to playing a game they purchased, while also providing the server support services required to actually play the game they purchased after the original seller decides they don't want to be bothered with providing it anymore?
Yes, I could see how that attitude sets up society to completely and utterly destroy itself....
I wonder, if Ford announced that you'll no longer actually own the car you purchase from them because its design contains intellectual property... Instead, you're merely leasing the car until they decide they just really don't wanna manufacture any more parts for it, at which point they then force you to return the car or permanently park it and never use it again in favor of purchasing a new car... Would you guys still be espousing this same "WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?" nonsense?
Well since in the US anyway, you actually own the Ford car if you buy it. This does not give you the right to copy the car and go around selling Ford copies. In addition you do not have to use only ford parts on your ford car so this part of you statement makes little sense. As far as the game goes, you only purchased the game client which is the part that is on your computer and paid a monthly fee for access to the game servers. You did not purchase the server software. If you so want to play CoH then go work on an EMU but don't expect to use stolen software. They are much less likely to shut down and EMU but then that didn't stop blizzard so who knows.
In the EU companies took the issue to court. They were concerned about what would happen to their cusiness if the company they had bought software from pulled the plug etc. Logistics software, payroll software, HR, inventory management, order admin etc. etc. Software without which they couldn't do business if they suddenly had no right to use it.
And the court ruling was that software was a product, the company's had bought it, they could carry on using it just as if it was a PC or a car.
Expensive software vs. cheap software; few users vs. many users; customers able, if needed, to support and keep the software running (they were worried about the legality of this); customers with the money to take the software companies to court.
So questions: what did NCSoft sell with the box price? The game? What was the sub for? The justification used to be that hosting was expensive!!! (NCSoft did guarantee quarterly updates with the sub as justification for increasing it from $10 to $15 so maybe not.)
Its one thing for large companies with the resources to make things work quite another for individuals (or in this case groups of them).
Intellectual property laws are holding humanity back and are rewarding only those who can afford expensive lawyers.
Or maybe those who have actual talent to create versus the vast majority of the world that does not. Geez. What people or companies create rightly belongs to them. End of story.
"When copyright law was first codified in the United States pursuant to the United States Copyright Act, the copyright duration was limited to 14 years. Today, copyrights can last over 100 years. That’s a huge change, and there are an overwhelming number of copyright experts that will tell you that it is all because of a mouse."
They'll eventually push for copyright in perpetuity. Because...money.
Also, neo-legalists seem to think that because there's a law, everything works the way it's supposed. Real world is very different.
Also a note: NCSoft did not do any 'creation' in CoH. They didn't understand it, didn't particularly care for it, and let it lay fallow for years. They bought it, they killed it. Now they can't just go 'business' as usual. But they can decide what avenue is best for their company, given the new state of affairs.
EDIT- Also, as far as I know, the 14 year thing was renewed during the creator's lifespan. I.e., if the creator was alive at the end of the 14, it automatically renewed for another 14. If the creator were dead when the current iteration of the 14 years ended, the copyright expired.
Apropos to your underlying point of why copyrights need to expire:
"This isn't simply a matter of who gets to reproduce a work in print. Copyright owners can prevent anyone from reading a written work out loud to the public, adapting it for stage or screen, and translating it into another language or another format. Limiting how a work can be used limits speech. Has culture not benefited from Shakespeare's adaptations of tales told in Chaucer? The 1812 Overture's appropriation of the Marseillaise? We'd lack Verdi's Othello; Rhys's Wide Sargasso Sea; Updike's Gertrude and Claudius. The costs that perpetual copyright would place on creation would far exceed the prices that descendants would charge to use an author's works; remixers, authors and adaptors who lack sufficient funds may never get a project off the ground, and we lose the fruit of their subsequent efforts."
I understand the challenges of copyright law. NCSoft was required to take action. I'm not new to this game.
But ultimately, it is NCSoft that chose not to sell these properties, which have no value to them, to an interested party. They are just another dragon hoarding treasure that they have no want nor use for. It's high time to slay that dragon.
I just picked your post out of many to quote that all were saying in essence the same thing. Apparently a troll posing as a lawyer caused all of this. The server team is new at this and panicked. NCsoft did not send a C&D letter. As far as I know, NCsoft still has not said anything about the private servers.
So there is hope... Honestly, I am pretty well convinced that NCsoft wrote off the value, a process that finished April 15th, or whatever tax day is in South Korea. At this point they still own the IP but it is evidently of no value to them accounting-wise. So how will this whole drama play out in the future? No one knows...
The value is if at some point in the future they decide they want to use it.
They can sit on it, make a new mmo out of it, make a mobile game out of it or put the likeness on a pin ball machine. They could put it in a book, or place it in a nook, or tippy, tippy, tippy toe to place it on a hook!
It's theirs to use when they want to use it. That's what owning an IP is all about. It's theirs. Theirs. They own it. Theirs.
It's as if some players can't understand that a company doesn't have to immediately use something they own. They can wait until it's advantageous to do so. Or, eventually, if they do think they won't use it they can sell it.
And it's almost as if you guys are wholesale labeling anyone not 100% agreeing with your entire take here as masked thieves who orchestrated the theft themselves and are cackling about it.
Both sides need to get the fuck off the high horse. Neither side here has any clue wtf they're talking about from a legal sense, it's all guesstimation based on what we've heard or seen from similar cases. However, only one seems to be trying to play a legal trump card in this discussion.
While the legal ramifications are murky it is quite easy to look down when perched up on the moral high ground.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And it's almost as if you guys are wholesale labeling anyone not 100% agreeing with your entire take here as masked thieves who orchestrated the theft themselves and are cackling about it.
Both sides need to get the fuck off the high horse. Neither side here has any clue wtf they're talking about from a legal sense, it's all guesstimation based on what we've heard or seen from similar cases. However, only one seems to be trying to play a legal trump card in this discussion.
While the legal ramifications are murky it is quite easy to look down when perched up on the moral high ground.
On the cause of theft, there can be no question: all of the people involved broke a law and violated a paradigmatic moral view regarding taking someone else's goods (something I agree is wrong). This conversation, as all these conversations inevitably do, has moved beyond merely that onto a larger discussion of private servers, IP rights, and terms of service. It's there that the legal terms become quite a bit murkier, and the philosophical ones a very noticeable shade of grey.
meh, I call wolf, I don't think they did receive anything, too fast for one, and we have to belive in a reddit post?
Are you fucking high? How long does it take your lawyer to write a form letter?
and deliver it to who and how exactly? Normally has to be by physical mail, certified and all that. Very surprised if they could have done it so quickly.
I didn't see the names and addresses of the new private server owners published anywhere.
Should be easy to trace the owners through their ISP.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
LOL I said this would happen. For these PS to work you can't have this info being spread all over MMO sites because of the rabid COX fan base. A PS for this game will never happen now.
And it's almost as if you guys are wholesale labeling anyone not 100% agreeing with your entire take here as masked thieves who orchestrated the theft themselves and are cackling about it.
Both sides need to get the fuck off the high horse. Neither side here has any clue wtf they're talking about from a legal sense, it's all guesstimation based on what we've heard or seen from similar cases. However, only one seems to be trying to play a legal trump card in this discussion.
While the legal ramifications are murky it is quite easy to look down when perched up on the moral high ground.
On the cause of theft, there can be no question: all of the people involved broke a law <snip>
Solely on the issue of theft: What about players who bought the game? What if those hosting it are using generic server software?
Not talking IP issues etc. just commenting on your theft comment.
"We are sorry we cannot currently pay you your money that you want to withdraw from your bank account because our software provider has decided to discontinue the software. Glad you understand the issue as to why we cannot pay you ..... " Etc. Got to remember that there is no fundamental difference between consumer software and business software.
I understand the challenges of copyright law. NCSoft was required to take action. I'm not new to this game.
But ultimately, it is NCSoft that chose not to sell these properties, which have no value to them, to an interested party. They are just another dragon hoarding treasure that they have no want nor use for. It's high time to slay that dragon.
I just picked your post out of many to quote that all were saying in essence the same thing. Apparently a troll posing as a lawyer caused all of this. The server team is new at this and panicked. NCsoft did not send a C&D letter. As far as I know, NCsoft still has not said anything about the private servers.
So there is hope... Honestly, I am pretty well convinced that NCsoft wrote off the value, a process that finished April 15th, or whatever tax day is in South Korea. At this point they still own the IP but it is evidently of no value to them accounting-wise. So how will this whole drama play out in the future? No one knows...
The value is if at some point in the future they decide they want to use it.
They can sit on it, make a new mmo out of it, make a mobile game out of it or put the likeness on a pin ball machine. They could put it in a book, or place it in a nook, or tippy, tippy, tippy toe to place it on a hook!
It's theirs to use when they want to use it. That's what owning an IP is all about. It's theirs. Theirs. They own it. Theirs.
It's as if some players can't understand that a company doesn't have to immediately use something they own. They can wait until it's advantageous to do so. Or, eventually, if they do think they won't use it they can sell it.
And it's almost as if you guys are wholesale labeling anyone not 100% agreeing with your entire take here as masked thieves who orchestrated the theft themselves and are cackling about it.
Both sides need to get the fuck off the high horse. Neither side here has any clue wtf they're talking about from a legal sense, it's all guesstimation based on what we've heard or seen from similar cases. However, only one seems to be trying to play a legal trump card in this discussion.
I can’t speak for what others are saying. “I’m” saying that it is their property and they can do with it what they want. We don’t need any legal knowledge to know that.
Years ago I broke into an abandoned mental institution because a friend wanted to explore it (follow me here). He told told me that it could be dangerous and if we were caught we could be arrested. It wasn’t my property and it was clearly marked “stay out.”
Had I hurt myself I wouldn’t have sued even though it was easy (and a bit mission impossible) to break in. If I was arrested I wouldn’t have bitched and complained as I knew what I was doing and I try to own my actions.
the people who run these servers should know that they run the risk of legal action if the owners decide it’s worth it to them to press charges. And players should know, before they give money, what they are actually buying and what they get if the game closes. And they shouldn’t be surprised if the owners want to shelve their property if they don’t want to use it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Intellectual property laws are holding humanity back and are rewarding only those who can afford expensive lawyers.
Or maybe those who have actual talent to create versus the vast majority of the world that does not. Geez. What people or companies create rightly belongs to them. End of story.
"When copyright law was first codified in the United States pursuant to the United States Copyright Act, the copyright duration was limited to 14 years. Today, copyrights can last over 100 years. That’s a huge change, and there are an overwhelming number of copyright experts that will tell you that it is all because of a mouse."
They'll eventually push for copyright in perpetuity. Because...money.
Also, neo-legalists seem to think that because there's a law, everything works the way it's supposed. Real world is very different.
Also a note: NCSoft did not do any 'creation' in CoH. They didn't understand it, didn't particularly care for it, and let it lay fallow for years. They bought it, they killed it. Now they can't just go 'business' as usual. But they can decide what avenue is best for their company, given the new state of affairs.
EDIT- Also, as far as I know, the 14 year thing was renewed during the creator's lifespan. I.e., if the creator was alive at the end of the 14, it automatically renewed for another 14. If the creator were dead when the current iteration of the 14 years ended, the copyright expired.
Apropos to your underlying point of why copyrights need to expire:
"This isn't simply a matter of who gets to reproduce a work in print. Copyright owners can prevent anyone from reading a written work out loud to the public, adapting it for stage or screen, and translating it into another language or another format. Limiting how a work can be used limits speech. Has culture not benefited from Shakespeare's adaptations of tales told in Chaucer? The 1812 Overture's appropriation of the Marseillaise? We'd lack Verdi's Othello; Rhys's Wide Sargasso Sea; Updike's Gertrude and Claudius. The costs that perpetual copyright would place on creation would far exceed the prices that descendants would charge to use an author's works; remixers, authors and adaptors who lack sufficient funds may never get a project off the ground, and we lose the fruit of their subsequent efforts."
From what I remember reading Mickey Mouse should have been public domain many years ago. But Disney is doing everything they can to get those laws changed in their favor. They don't want Mickey and friends to become like, It's a Wonderful Life.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I understand the challenges of copyright law. NCSoft was required to take action. I'm not new to this game.
But ultimately, it is NCSoft that chose not to sell these properties, which have no value to them, to an interested party. They are just another dragon hoarding treasure that they have no want nor use for. It's high time to slay that dragon.
I just picked your post out of many to quote that all were saying in essence the same thing. Apparently a troll posing as a lawyer caused all of this. The server team is new at this and panicked. NCsoft did not send a C&D letter. As far as I know, NCsoft still has not said anything about the private servers.
So there is hope... Honestly, I am pretty well convinced that NCsoft wrote off the value, a process that finished April 15th, or whatever tax day is in South Korea. At this point they still own the IP but it is evidently of no value to them accounting-wise. So how will this whole drama play out in the future? No one knows...
The value is if at some point in the future they decide they want to use it.
They can sit on it, make a new mmo out of it, make a mobile game out of it or put the likeness on a pin ball machine. They could put it in a book, or place it in a nook, or tippy, tippy, tippy toe to place it on a hook!
It's theirs to use when they want to use it. That's what owning an IP is all about. It's theirs. Theirs. They own it. Theirs.
It's as if some players can't understand that a company doesn't have to immediately use something they own. They can wait until it's advantageous to do so. Or, eventually, if they do think they won't use it they can sell it.
And it's almost as if you guys are wholesale labeling anyone not 100% agreeing with your entire take here as masked thieves who orchestrated the theft themselves and are cackling about it.
Both sides need to get the fuck off the high horse. Neither side here has any clue wtf they're talking about from a legal sense, it's all guesstimation based on what we've heard or seen from similar cases. However, only one seems to be trying to play a legal trump card in this discussion.
I can’t speak for what others are saying. “I’m” saying that it is their property and they can do with it what they want. We don’t need any legal knowledge to know that.
Years ago I broke into an abandoned mental institution because a friend wanted to explore it (follow me here). He told told me that it could be dangerous and if we were caught we could be arrested. It wasn’t my property and it was clearly marked “stay out.”
Had I hurt myself I wouldn’t have sued even though it was easy (and a bit mission impossible) to break in. If I was arrested I wouldn’t have bitched and complained as I knew what I was doing and I try to own my actions.
the people who run these servers should know that they run the risk of legal action if the owners decide it’s worth it to them to press charges. And players should know, before they give money, what they are actually buying and what they get if the game closes. And they shouldn’t be surprised if the owners want to shelve their property if they don’t want to use it.
I agree they should be aware. No qualms with the idea folks should be aware of the law.
But as the discussion has moved beyond the initial act that set off the chain of events that led us here with CoH, we can discuss more than merely what the law reads, though as Beatnik explained earlier, even the law itself isn't as cut and dry as many wish to make it seem in this particular instance.
Folks advocating for the private servers for these defunct online games are not necessarily advocating that folks be allowed to swipe code at will from those who do not wish to give it. Their seemingly ignorant attitude is merely a product of the philosophical idea that a group of hardcore fans of something merely wanting to continue enjoying said thing they purchased, without ill intent towards the creators nor intent to meaningfully gain from such an endeavor, should not be considered criminals on that basis alone, nor does it necessarily follow that such a project would meaningfully damage (if at all) the underlying IP on that basis alone.
1 b#$#$% and moan call an attorny and spend money on trying in vain to put the BLAST back in a bomb that went off!
or
2 just give in, start up a few good servers and see if it makes money as is!
one they will bleed slowly for years
2 they make some money!
edit
found this on massively
City of Heroes’ rogue servers may abandon character restoration as 14000 gamers register to play
if true that 14,000 are waiting..10$ a head=NC soft ...money is flying away 1.4 million per month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tony V (@TonyV_CoH)
The Titan Network is in talks with NCSoft regarding a community-run City of Heroes server. Things are looking positive, so stay strong. We don't have a timeline right now, but we'll provide more updates as soon as we can. #SaveCoHhttps://t.co/zSq3nTEScM
Innocuous/Artificial IntelToday at 9:23 PM
Note: This is not the official update we were announcing.
We are also not affiliated with this tweet.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Tony V (@TonyV_CoH)
The Titan Network is in talks with NCSoft regarding a community-run City of Heroes server. Things are looking positive, so stay strong. We don't have a timeline right now, but we'll provide more updates as soon as we can. #SaveCoHhttps://t.co/zSq3nTEScM
Innocuous/Artificial IntelToday at 9:23 PM
Note: This is not the official update we were announcing.
We are also not affiliated with this tweet.
I can understand P99, SWG and even DAoC being allowed because they are no longer mainstream MMOs. However, given that Blizzard decided to create official classic servers says something. So if NCSoft doesn't want to fund official servers anymore, which should of been obvious to anyone with half a brain, than hopefully they can agree to allow this. To say no to a product they abandoned nearly decade ago, would simply make them look vain and nothing else.
NCSoft is doubtless going to want to maintain ownership of the IP, something that an official license to a community server could accomplish. Let's hope they are reasonable.
Hell, if they take the reasonable route, I'll go out and buy an NCSoft product in ritual acknowledgement.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
1 b#$#$% and moan call an attorny and spend money on trying in vain to put the BLAST back in a bomb that went off!
or
2 just give in, start up a few good servers and see if it makes money as is!
one they will bleed slowly for years
2 they make some money!
edit
found this on massively
City of Heroes’ rogue servers may abandon character restoration as 14000 gamers register to play
if true that 14,000 are waiting..10$ a head=NC soft ...money is flying away 1.4 million per month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 b#$#$% and moan call an attorny and spend money on trying in vain to put the BLAST back in a bomb that went off!
or
2 just give in, start up a few good servers and see if it makes money as is!
one they will bleed slowly for years
2 they make some money!
edit
found this on massively
City of Heroes’ rogue servers may abandon character restoration as 14000 gamers register to play
if true that 14,000 are waiting..10$ a head=NC soft ...money is flying away 1.4 million per month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comments
You're fucking killing me, mate.
Both sides need to get the fuck off the high horse. Neither side here has any clue wtf they're talking about from a legal sense, it's all guesstimation based on what we've heard or seen from similar cases. However, only one seems to be trying to play a legal trump card in this discussion.
If they are ever in dire need of a quick cash influx they may get rid of some of their less used properties, or make them otherwise available, but barring that it doesn't seem likely.
Attributing negative aspects to companies that take actions you don't like doesn't really make them so. After all, profit seeking led to the existence of CoH to begin with. It is neither inherently negative or positive, but simply the driving force of economy in free markets.
However, refusing to provide the necessary service to allow consumers to continue using a product they purchased AND actively preventing consumers from providing the service for themselves without seeking any financial gain is not a warranted protection.
https://www.theiplawblog.com/2016/02/articles/copyright-law/disneys-influence-on-united-states-copyright-law/
Disney.
They'll eventually push for copyright in perpetuity. Because...money.
Also, neo-legalists seem to think that because there's a law, everything works the way it's supposed. Real world is very different.
Also a note: NCSoft did not do any 'creation' in CoH. They didn't understand it, didn't particularly care for it, and let it lay fallow for years. They bought it, they killed it. Now they can't just go 'business' as usual. But they can decide what avenue is best for their company, given the new state of affairs.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
And the court ruling was that software was a product, the company's had bought it, they could carry on using it just as if it was a PC or a car.
Expensive software vs. cheap software; few users vs. many users; customers able, if needed, to support and keep the software running (they were worried about the legality of this); customers with the money to take the software companies to court.
So questions: what did NCSoft sell with the box price? The game? What was the sub for? The justification used to be that hosting was expensive!!! (NCSoft did guarantee quarterly updates with the sub as justification for increasing it from $10 to $15 so maybe not.)
Its one thing for large companies with the resources to make things work quite another for individuals (or in this case groups of them).
Apropos to your underlying point of why copyrights need to expire:
"This isn't simply a matter of who gets to reproduce a work in print. Copyright owners can prevent anyone from reading a written work out loud to the public, adapting it for stage or screen, and translating it into another language or another format. Limiting how a work can be used limits speech. Has culture not benefited from Shakespeare's adaptations of tales told in Chaucer? The 1812 Overture's appropriation of the Marseillaise? We'd lack Verdi's Othello; Rhys's Wide Sargasso Sea; Updike's Gertrude and Claudius. The costs that perpetual copyright would place on creation would far exceed the prices that descendants would charge to use an author's works; remixers, authors and adaptors who lack sufficient funds may never get a project off the ground, and we lose the fruit of their subsequent efforts."
https://www.publicknowledge.org/news-blog/blogs/why-copyrights-must-expire-reply-mark-helprin
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Not talking IP issues etc. just commenting on your theft comment.
"We are sorry we cannot currently pay you your money that you want to withdraw from your bank account because our software provider has decided to discontinue the software. Glad you understand the issue as to why we cannot pay you ..... " Etc. Got to remember that there is no fundamental difference between consumer software and business software.
Years ago I broke into an abandoned mental institution because a friend wanted to explore it (follow me here). He told told me that it could be dangerous and if we were caught we could be arrested. It wasn’t my property and it was clearly marked “stay out.”
Had I hurt myself I wouldn’t have sued even though it was easy (and a bit mission impossible) to break in. If I was arrested I wouldn’t have bitched and complained as I knew what I was doing and I try to own my actions.
the people who run these servers should know that they run the risk of legal action if the owners decide it’s worth it to them to press charges. And players should know, before they give money, what they are actually buying and what they get if the game closes. And they shouldn’t be surprised if the owners want to shelve their property if they don’t want to use it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
But as the discussion has moved beyond the initial act that set off the chain of events that led us here with CoH, we can discuss more than merely what the law reads, though as Beatnik explained earlier, even the law itself isn't as cut and dry as many wish to make it seem in this particular instance.
Folks advocating for the private servers for these defunct online games are not necessarily advocating that folks be allowed to swipe code at will from those who do not wish to give it. Their seemingly ignorant attitude is merely a product of the philosophical idea that a group of hardcore fans of something merely wanting to continue enjoying said thing they purchased, without ill intent towards the creators nor intent to meaningfully gain from such an endeavor, should not be considered criminals on that basis alone, nor does it necessarily follow that such a project would meaningfully damage (if at all) the underlying IP on that basis alone.
1 b#$#$% and moan call an attorny and spend money on trying in vain to put the BLAST back in a bomb that went off!
or
2 just give in, start up a few good servers and see if it makes money as is!
one they will bleed slowly for years
2 they make some money!
edit
found this on massively
City of Heroes’ rogue servers may abandon character restoration as 14000 gamers register to play
if true that 14,000 are waiting..10$ a head=NC soft ...money is flying away
1.4 million per month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Hell, if they take the reasonable route, I'll go out and buy an NCSoft product in ritual acknowledgement.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.