Enjoy your age verification process lads in the land of the free!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
This needs to happen. It happened in RL gambling, so it's bound to happen in digital one. Whether the baseline rules that need to be established will be the right ones are open for debate. However, I don't think anyone can argue that just because gambling is coming from mega-corporations, it should not be regulated for some reason.
Riiiiight parenting vs a billion dollar corporation who think they're entitled to as much of your money as possible. No contest.
yes I know the power of "no" is hard to use
It isn't that the poster you replied to can't say no to kids.
It's that trying to police millions of individuals is much harder than policing a handful of companies, instead.
What's easier to corral? 20 dogs you're already familiar with, or 400 cats?
Are the millions of individuals you're referring to the children? If that's the case, there are millions of people available to do the policing. They're called parents. If they would do their jobs by utilizing the proper parental locks available to them already, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
No, it's the parents.
Say what you like about who should he responsible, it's much easier to effectively address the issue via manipulating the behavior of a relative few companies, as opposed to changing the habits of millions of consumers.
yeah because every single time a goverment put his little paw on something they make things so much better.
and this bill not even passed and i'm thinking on 5 ways to bypass such law, so please go own, ask the big brother to take care of things
I don't think there needs to be an outright ban, but it does need to be regulated. Brick & mortar casinos are regulated, in the USA, & since the gaming industry has taken it upon themselves to create casinos now with side games they should be regulated as such too. Not having to publish the official odds & answer to no one offers no accountability.
Bro... kickstand on the loot boxes, and microtransactions for now. We'll live.
Just FYI, this will have no effect on Loot Boxes, or mincrotarsnions in the game, in regards to adults. This is all about the children, and a means by which they will not be able to spend their parents money without their parents knowing about it.
Will it work better than parental lock/parental control features?
I wager it will be different, as those features don't stop your kid from buying something on a phone game, after you set them up a purchasing account.
I get the vibe this is a situation where, if the phone is flagged as a Minors Phone, no purchases can me made in any game, even after a payment system has been set up, without the parents approval for each transaction.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
This is purely a case of finances and companies allowing children to make a purchase without the parents full knowledge of said purchase, and it's caused because game companies allow parents to set up a purchasing account, and then the kids can freely buy whatever the want without the parents knowing.
This bill is designed to stop them from doing that, and need parent approval for each purchase.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It is not a role of the federal government to be overseeing transactions.
Do you want freedom or do you want authoritarian government? We do not need another loss of freedom.
This problem can be handled at the family level. There is not even a ghost of a need for government involvement.
Our country is economically drowning in regulation.
Just because you have a personal value is not a reason to make a law about it. Remember the idea of freedom? You can make choices for yourself. It is a very good thing. We can all have different values and get along, too, if there is a free market.
Government is not smarter than the average gamer about games. Keep them away from our great pastime.
Big Daddy government is a need and wish for you? You will be sorry when you get what you ask for. Don't go picking a Daddy for me, either.
Bro... kickstand on the loot boxes, and microtransactions for now. We'll live.
Just FYI, this will have no effect on Loot Boxes, or mincrotarsnions in the game, in regards to adults. This is all about the children, and a means by which they will not be able to spend their parents money without their parents knowing about it.
Will it work better than parental lock/parental control features?
I wager it will be different, as those features don't stop your kid from buying something on a phone game, after you set them up a purchasing account.
I get the vibe this is a situation where, if the phone is flagged as a Minors Phone, no purchases can me made in any game, even after a payment system has been set up, without the parents approval for each transaction.
If they don't have those features to prevent my child from using my CC, my child isn't playing the game. It's that simple.
Bro... kickstand on the loot boxes, and microtransactions for now. We'll live.
Just FYI, this will have no effect on Loot Boxes, or mincrotarsnions in the game, in regards to adults. This is all about the children, and a means by which they will not be able to spend their parents money without their parents knowing about it.
Will it work better than parental lock/parental control features?
I wager it will be different, as those features don't stop your kid from buying something on a phone game, after you set them up a purchasing account.
I get the vibe this is a situation where, if the phone is flagged as a Minors Phone, no purchases can me made in any game, even after a payment system has been set up, without the parents approval for each transaction.
If they don't have those features to prevent my child from using my CC, my child isn't playing the game. It's that simple.
why your kid have access to your CC would be my first question
As a Libertarian I am against most government interference with every day pursuits. Including the ones they are already trying to control which they shouldnt.
The only thing I might agree with is if they made it a crime for these companies to process transactions without several authentication steps. Or better yet a full refund of any charges made that werent made by the actual owner of the card or someone with iron clad proof they could access the accounts/funds they bought something with.
it isnt a crime to be stupid (yet) but we are slowly but surely getting there with everyone willingly letting governments all over the world take control of their everyday lives.
Its the boiling frog experiment being played out in real life. They take away a little bit of freedom here a little bit of choice there then they start introducing laws and regulations that are 'no brainers' and everyone hops on board because they have been trained to let big brother take care of them. It gets worse and worse with every generation.
Irony is most kids watch these dystopian movies that right now seem like science fiction but are actually a blur print of what will actually happen if they keep thinking the way they do.
It's against the law and common decency to be a scam artist, yet many here think it's fine for corporations to behave like scam artists with no consequence? The hypocrisy is astounding.
Say what you like about who should he responsible, it's much easier to effectively address the issue via manipulating the behavior of a relative few companies, as opposed to changing the habits of millions of consumers.
yeah because every single time a goverment put his little paw on something they make things so much better.
and this bill not even passed and i'm thinking on 5 ways to bypass such law, so please go own, ask the big brother to take care of things
When was the last time you had to sincerely guess whether your lunch meat was gonna poison you?
Anyone who claims that they should just not let kids buy MTX clearly do not have children. Parents don't want to be forced to focus on everything their kids do. Some parents prefer that their kids learn responsibility, some prefer a more aggressive / overbearing approach. Do parents want to have to scrutinize every single purchasing decision their 12-15 year old kid makes with their own money? That is insane. This is not to mention that kids can easily buy "points" for games in stores and use them in a game without their parent's knowledge.
If you want to make sure that every single time your kid buys anything you are there or require receipts for everything until they are an adult be my guest, but that won't help them learn any responsibilities or stop them if they really want to participate in this stuff.
Anyone who claims that they should just not let kids buy MTX clearly do not have children. Parents don't want to be forced to focus on everything their kids do. Some parents prefer that their kids learn responsibility, some prefer a more aggressive / overbearing approach. Do parents want to have to scrutinize every single purchasing decision their 12-15 year old kid makes with their own money? That is insane. This is not to mention that kids can easily buy "points" for games in stores and use them in a game without their parent's knowledge.
If you want to make sure that every single time your kid buys anything you are there or require receipts for everything until they are an adult be my guest, but that won't help them learn any responsibilities or stop them if they really want to participate in this stuff.
I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would think leaving it to the whims of the parents is a good idea considering the current anti-vaxxer phenomenon occurring. It's quite painfully obvious that leaving it to parents is the same as saying to some children "Yea, fuck off. We don't care."
Huh? I'm not looking at it in terms of protecting kids. I just want a better game-play experience. The removal of loot boxes will be a superb change for adults, too.
In the early days of ArcheAge, there was this donkey mount that gave a major advantage to crafters/traders. The only way to get this mount was by getting lucky with a loot box.
A lot of people spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars via loot crates with hopes of getting this donkey. It's dumb on them, but also dumb on the developers. Trion, a once respected entity, will now forever be known as a pile of vomit due to their greedy sass.
I'd rather deal with pay 2 win vs pay for chance to win.
Agree, it's totally depressing how people cant see that its literally destroyed game design. And in a state of paranoia just see it as a "control" issue.
The Entertainment Software Association has said that it is looking "forward to sharing with the senator the tools and information the industry already provides that keeps the control of in-game spending in parents' hands."
And once they make a donation to his reelection campaign all of this will just quietly go away.
And he will nor longer have a career in politics with such a smoking gun, so doubt that's going to happen. I assume that just like the UK, in the US politicians have to declare donations?
We must all remember for a moment that we never own any of the items we "win" in loot boxes. We rent them for a period of time until the owner decides that we can't "rent" it anymore. In the few situations where we are allowed to "resell" items we purchased the real owner(developer) reserves the right to terminate business with us whenever they want. Everything won in loot boxes and p2w schemes are just visual and mental stimulation with a price tag.
They design cosmetics and p2w/rng systems to make the most money they can off our desires >>> desire to win, desire to look good.
I know it won't happen but what I hope is revealed in all this is what % of company profits come from loot boxes.
The Entertainment Software Association has said that it is looking "forward to sharing with the senator the tools and information the industry already provides that keeps the control of in-game spending in parents' hands."
And once they make a donation to his reelection campaign all of this will just quietly go away.
And he will nor longer have a career in politics with such a smoking gun, so doubt that's going to happen. I assume that just like the UK, in the US politicians have to declare donations?
Have to put a very big asterisk next to the word "yes" here.
Yes* politicians do have to declare donations, but foundations and pacs don't necessarily have to, which can be used to obfuscate where the donations are coming from. It's been common practice for a long time.
The Entertainment Software Association has said that it is looking "forward to sharing with the senator the tools and information the industry already provides that keeps the control of in-game spending in parents' hands."
And once they make a donation to his reelection campaign all of this will just quietly go away.
And he will nor longer have a career in politics with such a smoking gun, so doubt that's going to happen. I assume that just like the UK, in the US politicians have to declare donations?
Have to put a very big asterisk next to the word "yes" here.
Yes* politicians do have to declare donations, but foundations and pacs don't necessarily have to, which can be used to obfuscate where the donations are coming from. It's been common practice for a long time.
And actually upheld by the Supreme Court.
I think it was a shit decision, but it was theirs.
Huh? I'm not looking at it in terms of protecting kids. I just want a better game-play experience. The removal of loot boxes will be a superb change for adults, too.
In the early days of ArcheAge, there was this donkey mount that gave a major advantage to crafters/traders. The only way to get this mount was by getting lucky with a loot box.
A lot of people spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars via loot crates with hopes of getting this donkey. It's dumb on them, but also dumb on the developers. Trion, a once respected entity, will now forever be known as a pile of vomit due to their greedy sass.
I'd rather deal with pay 2 win vs pay for chance to win.
Agree, it's totally depressing how people cant see that its literally destroyed game design. And in a state of paranoia just see it as a "control" issue.
The argument is not about whether or not it has ruined game design. Most of us detest P2W and loot crates. The argument is whether or not we need government intervention because of [insert current political buzzwords here.]
My take is that anti-gambling laws exist to protect people who become addicted to gambling. It is absolutely a failing of the biological human response to expect reward after high risk venture and I completely understand why there should be laws against gambling in certain places and for certain people.
Gacha/lootbox are the new wave of gambling. Instead of paying money to win money, we are paying money to win virtual items, but it amounts to the same thing - people who are susceptible to addiction to traditional forms of gambling will also be susceptible to gacha. The same or similar laws should absolutely apply. However, one problem is that it's much harder to enforce laws in a virtual realm and most lawmakers don't even understand how gaming works, let alone how it could be a problem other than "oh isn't it violent?" Most are completely out of touch with popular culture, especially in regards to technology, so another problem is making laws that are appropriately tailored to gacha instead of traditional gambling. I know there are laws against betting real money in online poker and that they took a while to be enacted, but I'm not sure how different they are from traditional gambling laws.
I don't believe we're far from seeing gacha laws, though. Belgium has already enacted anti-virtual gambling laws. They're the pioneers in this case, with more sure to follow. I play one gacha game regularly, and the prices it charges for currency packs are high enough to deter me from buying them. Plus, I don't have a gambling problem. But online communities for gacha games are rife with tales of gambling addicts who never thought they would become so, who spent well outside their comfort zone chasing that one character or that one weapon, to the point where it's ruined their relationships and their finances. It's a slippery slope from "casual player" to "obsessively spending money on gambling" and gambling laws should be there to protect these people.
Note that the pricing being unfair or the method of implementation in games has nothing to do with this. If a law is going to be enacted it's going to be to protect people against gambling, not to make games fair or pricing more justified.
Bro... kickstand on the loot boxes, and microtransactions for now. We'll live.
Just FYI, this will have no effect on Loot Boxes, or mincrotarsnions in the game, in regards to adults. This is all about the children, and a means by which they will not be able to spend their parents money without their parents knowing about it.
Will it work better than parental lock/parental control features?
I wager it will be different, as those features don't stop your kid from buying something on a phone game, after you set them up a purchasing account.
I get the vibe this is a situation where, if the phone is flagged as a Minors Phone, no purchases can me made in any game, even after a payment system has been set up, without the parents approval for each transaction.
100% ignorant. WTF would anybody leave a kid with a purchasing account where they can make transactions without any guardian approval? Even the worst parents don't want some rugrat wiping their credit card clean.
Also iPhone and Androids have family management tools, hell so do game systems, so does Steam, so do routers.
I'm not one of those "do gudder at parenting" guys when it comes to corporate abuses, but in this instance they're kinda right. Right now, part of being a household leader means being an IT person for your family. If it's too much work, remove the tech. Invoking ignorance isn't a good excuse.
I just think chasing a bill like this RIGHT NOW on a federal level is like trying to fix pH levels of faucet water during a biblical flood.
If your kid keeps banging your credit card because they have a lootbox problem, I think the immediate and safer bet is to maybe manage your credit card and peripherals so it doesn't happen again. Waiting for a bill to pass in todays climate with minors well being in the balance isn't wise.
The mental retard population of the US can't even get to common sense fire arm restrictions. They'd rather walk around with civil liberty rifles in front of unarmed Americans or suck Wayne La'Pierres beef for a 20% discount. Frankly, who things happen to and where = chickens coming home to roost.
I'm sorry for the rant, but politicians priorities are annoying AF man.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Funny thing about the US is that the country rakes in 80+ billion a year on state and gov't lotteries that I don't think they really care. Powerball and all that crap rakes in the money taking advantage of lower socioeconomic populations more than others because they are the ones that buy them the most.
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I get the vibe this is a situation where, if the phone is flagged as a Minors Phone, no purchases can me made in any game, even after a payment system has been set up, without the parents approval for each transaction.
This is purely a case of finances and companies allowing children to make a purchase without the parents full knowledge of said purchase, and it's caused because game companies allow parents to set up a purchasing account, and then the kids can freely buy whatever the want without the parents knowing.
This bill is designed to stop them from doing that, and need parent approval for each purchase.
It is not a role of the federal government to be overseeing transactions.
Do you want freedom or do you want authoritarian government? We do not need another loss of freedom.
This problem can be handled at the family level. There is not even a ghost of a need for government involvement.
Our country is economically drowning in regulation.
Just because you have a personal value is not a reason to make a law about it. Remember the idea of freedom? You can make choices for yourself. It is a very good thing. We can all have different values and get along, too, if there is a free market.
Government is not smarter than the average gamer about games. Keep them away from our great pastime.
Big Daddy government is a need and wish for you? You will be sorry when you get what you ask for. Don't go picking a Daddy for me, either.
If they don't have those features to prevent my child from using my CC, my child isn't playing the game. It's that simple.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The only thing I might agree with is if they made it a crime for these companies to process transactions without several authentication steps. Or better yet a full refund of any charges made that werent made by the actual owner of the card or someone with iron clad proof they could access the accounts/funds they bought something with.
it isnt a crime to be stupid (yet) but we are slowly but surely getting there with everyone willingly letting governments all over the world take control of their everyday lives.
Its the boiling frog experiment being played out in real life. They take away a little bit of freedom here a little bit of choice there then they start introducing laws and regulations that are 'no brainers' and everyone hops on board because they have been trained to let big brother take care of them. It gets worse and worse with every generation.
Irony is most kids watch these dystopian movies that right now seem like science fiction but are actually a blur print of what will actually happen if they keep thinking the way they do.
But yes: REGOOLAYSHUNZ IZ BAD.
And he will nor longer have a career in politics with such a smoking gun, so doubt that's going to happen. I assume that just like the UK, in the US politicians have to declare donations?
They design cosmetics and p2w/rng systems to make the most money they can off our desires >>> desire to win, desire to look good.
I know it won't happen but what I hope is revealed in all this is what % of company profits come from loot boxes.
Yes* politicians do have to declare donations, but foundations and pacs don't necessarily have to, which can be used to obfuscate where the donations are coming from. It's been common practice for a long time.
I think it was a shit decision, but it was theirs.
The argument is not about whether or not it has ruined game design. Most of us detest P2W and loot crates. The argument is whether or not we need government intervention because of [insert current political buzzwords here.]
Gacha/lootbox are the new wave of gambling. Instead of paying money to win money, we are paying money to win virtual items, but it amounts to the same thing - people who are susceptible to addiction to traditional forms of gambling will also be susceptible to gacha. The same or similar laws should absolutely apply. However, one problem is that it's much harder to enforce laws in a virtual realm and most lawmakers don't even understand how gaming works, let alone how it could be a problem other than "oh isn't it violent?" Most are completely out of touch with popular culture, especially in regards to technology, so another problem is making laws that are appropriately tailored to gacha instead of traditional gambling. I know there are laws against betting real money in online poker and that they took a while to be enacted, but I'm not sure how different they are from traditional gambling laws.
I don't believe we're far from seeing gacha laws, though. Belgium has already enacted anti-virtual gambling laws. They're the pioneers in this case, with more sure to follow. I play one gacha game regularly, and the prices it charges for currency packs are high enough to deter me from buying them. Plus, I don't have a gambling problem. But online communities for gacha games are rife with tales of gambling addicts who never thought they would become so, who spent well outside their comfort zone chasing that one character or that one weapon, to the point where it's ruined their relationships and their finances. It's a slippery slope from "casual player" to "obsessively spending money on gambling" and gambling laws should be there to protect these people.
Note that the pricing being unfair or the method of implementation in games has nothing to do with this. If a law is going to be enacted it's going to be to protect people against gambling, not to make games fair or pricing more justified.
Also iPhone and Androids have family management tools, hell so do game systems, so does Steam, so do routers.
I'm not one of those "do gudder at parenting" guys when it comes to corporate abuses, but in this instance they're kinda right. Right now, part of being a household leader means being an IT person for your family. If it's too much work, remove the tech. Invoking ignorance isn't a good excuse.
I just think chasing a bill like this RIGHT NOW on a federal level is like trying to fix pH levels of faucet water during a biblical flood.
If your kid keeps banging your credit card because they have a lootbox problem, I think the immediate and safer bet is to maybe manage your credit card and peripherals so it doesn't happen again. Waiting for a bill to pass in todays climate with minors well being in the balance isn't wise.
The mental retard population of the US can't even get to common sense fire arm restrictions. They'd rather walk around with civil liberty rifles in front of unarmed Americans or suck Wayne La'Pierres beef for a 20% discount. Frankly, who things happen to and where = chickens coming home to roost.
I'm sorry for the rant, but politicians priorities are annoying AF man.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.