Mike Morhaime explained recently what happened to the SEQUEL of WoW (yes, Titan was the 2.0 game of WoW), straight from the horse's mouth (and you can blame 2 things that went wrong: the engine wasn't ready and Overwatch ... they abandoned Titan FOR Overwatch)...
Interestingly Morhaime claimed it would've been subscription based, too.
No, Titan was not WOW 2.0, set in an entirely different universe. Spiritual successor is a more accurate descriptor.
Sometimes game developers misuse words, you know like MMO or sandbox, same thing here.
While sequel can be used to describe an action which occurs due to a previous one, in the terms of published works the meaning is specific, "a published, broadcast, or recorded work that continues the story or develops the theme of an earlier one"
Doesn't seem like Titan really fit this description especially considering how its assets were repurposed into Overwatch.
Not that I play it, but didn't see any Orcs or Taurens in the video clips.
Its like saying Red Sparrow is the sequel to Atomic Blond because they both have female assassins who cleverly double cross their employers, kill people and have Russian villains in them.
Never mind they are set over 20 years apart, have totally different actors, both are movies right, so must be a sequel.
No.
Though I did read they might bring Charlize Therons character into the next John Wick movie, if so they'll need to use time travel or something and it will muddy the waters a bit on which movie it is a sequel of.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Mike Morhaime explained recently what happened to the SEQUEL of WoW (yes, Titan was the 2.0 game of WoW), straight from the horse's mouth (and you can blame 2 things that went wrong: the engine wasn't ready and Overwatch ... they abandoned Titan FOR Overwatch)...
While sequel can be used to describe an action which occurs due to a previous one, in the terms of published works the meaning is specific, "a published, broadcast, or recorded work that continues the story or develops the theme of an earlier one"
Doesn't seem like Titan really fit this description especially considering how its assets were repurposed into Overwatch.
Not that I play it, but didn't see any Orcs or Taurens in the video clips.
Titan would've brought the much needed engine update (WoW current engine doesn't use multiprocessors well, Blizzard offloaded some threads to another processor, but it's not multi-threading friendly. It was designed for 2001 processors [Core2duo wasn't even out], not 8+ processors on a die we have now). Since it's held together with 15 years of spaghetti code (for example, the 16 slot bag problem, it's so hard coded they don't want to touch editing it), the engine improvement would've been a godsend itself.
They also could use more vectors for assets, so the game isn't so 2D looking, too. That stuff is locked into the engine.
The engine is OLD and as much as they hack it to stay around, it's over 15 years-old. A lot of tech has changed since then, and patching an engine doesn't improve it. It simply gets bogged down.
What hit Titan hard was it takes at least 4 years to build a new engine (why you see the mess with EA trying to force fit a FPS Frostbyte engine in ALL their games -- that is a mess if they tried. Each genre has specific needs, a one-size-fits-all engine wouldn't work). The teams were waiting on the engine, and Blizzard couldn't have that many on the payroll doing nothing, either. While they waited 2 months for improvements, they brainstormed the concept of Overwatch. That was easier to produce and went from there.
So videos like this got it wrong. Overwatch wasn't even an idea until LONG after they were working on Titan...
^^ You can even see the Draenai and Pandarian architecture in that video. So, yes, it was a continuation of WoW. See the hole entrance of the Pandarian homes even??? The Shard like buildings of WoD's Shattath??? The Stormwind clock tower and church???
WoW was made for the solo players. Now the market is full with such games. So WoW2 should not be WoW to be something new and successful. The new milestones for success are LoL and Fortnite. I doubt Blizzard could make a competitive MMORPG. That is why you got WoW Classic - you know, when something failed, they always could release a "classic" version.
WARCRAFT series was made for solo players. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG. Two different games.
WoW was made for the solo players. Now the market is full with such games. So WoW2 should not be WoW to be something new and successful. The new milestones for success are LoL and Fortnite. I doubt Blizzard could make a competitive MMORPG. That is why you got WoW Classic - you know, when something failed, they always could release a "classic" version.
WARCRAFT series was made for solo players. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG. Two different games.
WoW was kind of MMO at the beginning. But even then it was a solo player focused game. Can I play WoW singleplayer from the start to the maximum level? I can, as anybody else. So it is not a MMO. There is some multiplayer content, that I could use if I want, but it is not mandatory.
It is 20 hours of solo content, and 1000 hours of group content after.
There is another person on this forum keep bashing me when I told her people complain wow is too solo focused(she claim wow don't have much solo end game content).
WoW was made for the solo players. Now the market is full with such games. So WoW2 should not be WoW to be something new and successful. The new milestones for success are LoL and Fortnite. I doubt Blizzard could make a competitive MMORPG. That is why you got WoW Classic - you know, when something failed, they always could release a "classic" version.
WARCRAFT series was made for solo players. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG. Two different games.
WoW was kind of MMO at the beginning. But even then it was a solo player focused game. Can I play WoW singleplayer from the start to the maximum level? I can, as anybody else. So it is not a MMO. There is some multiplayer content, that I could use if I want, but it is not mandatory.
It is 20 hours of solo content, and 1000 hours of group content after.
There is another person on this forum keep bashing me when I told her people complain wow is too solo focused(she claim wow don't have much solo end game content).
How do you count the content? Because 80% of the content of WoW is solo. You could make only raids for example - so 100% multiplayer experience. But this is less than 10% of the content of the game. Do you realize, you even count the content of a MMO as that of a singleplayer game? In a singleplayer game the content and your playing experience are almost alike. But in a MMO - you could grind 1000 hours in a content that needs less than 1 hour to be made. So your claim for WoW is obviously false.
There is also dungeon and pvp, not just raid. I think what people are saying is it takes 20 hours to reach max level right? And the only thing to do at max level is dungeon, raid, and pvp.
You can also grind easy mob in the open world and farm for money, or remake an alt. But there isn't much thing to do solo beside that.
I'm saying it in a simplified manner. Obviously developer try to throw some shallow solo player content like daily everyday. And they put out solo events every now and then...
I personally spend half of the time solo and half the time grouping in those type of game. And my play time is a few thousand hours. Most of my solo play times is making new alt.
While sequel can be used to describe an action which occurs due to a previous one, in the terms of published works the meaning is specific, "a published, broadcast, or recorded work that continues the story or develops the theme of an earlier one"
Doesn't seem like Titan really fit this description especially considering how its assets were repurposed into Overwatch.
Not that I play it, but didn't see any Orcs or Taurens in the video clips.
Titan would've brought the much needed engine update (WoW current engine doesn't use multiprocessors well, Blizzard offloaded some threads to another processor, but it's not multi-threading friendly. It was designed for 2001 processors [Core2duo wasn't even out], not 8+ processors on a die we have now). Since it's held together with 15 years of spaghetti code (for example, the 16 slot bag problem, it's so hard coded they don't want to touch editing it), the engine improvement would've been a godsend itself.
They also could use more vectors for assets, so the game isn't so 2D looking, too. That stuff is locked into the engine.
The engine is OLD and as much as they hack it to stay around, it's over 15 years-old. A lot of tech has changed since then, and patching an engine doesn't improve it. It simply gets bogged down.
What hit Titan hard was it takes at least 4 years to build a new engine (why you see the mess with EA trying to force fit a FPS Frostbyte engine in ALL their games -- that is a mess if they tried. Each genre has specific needs, a one-size-fits-all engine wouldn't work). The teams were waiting on the engine, and Blizzard couldn't have that many on the payroll doing nothing, either. While they waited 2 months for improvements, they brainstormed the concept of Overwatch. That was easier to produce and went from there.
So videos like this got it wrong. Overwatch wasn't even an idea until LONG after they were working on Titan...
^^ You can even see the Draenai and Pandarian architecture in that video. So, yes, it was a continuation of WoW. See the hole entrance of the Pandarian homes even??? The Shard like buildings of WoD's Shattath??? The Stormwind clock tower and church???
It was really the sequel of the WoW we know.
Err, did you actually watch this video? MMOFPS based on an average Joe i.e. cook turned superhero in a futuristic Sci fi world?
Makes sense they repurposed / reused the art assets in WOW but in calling it a sequel is really reaching regardless what the CEO said. (As if they ever know what really is going on)
It's like trying to claim Warhammer Online and ESO are sequels to DAOC..
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While sequel can be used to describe an action which occurs due to a previous one, in the terms of published works the meaning is specific, "a published, broadcast, or recorded work that continues the story or develops the theme of an earlier one"
Doesn't seem like Titan really fit this description especially considering how its assets were repurposed into Overwatch.
Not that I play it, but didn't see any Orcs or Taurens in the video clips.
Titan would've brought the much needed engine update (WoW current engine doesn't use multiprocessors well, Blizzard offloaded some threads to another processor, but it's not multi-threading friendly. It was designed for 2001 processors [Core2duo wasn't even out], not 8+ processors on a die we have now). Since it's held together with 15 years of spaghetti code (for example, the 16 slot bag problem, it's so hard coded they don't want to touch editing it), the engine improvement would've been a godsend itself.
They also could use more vectors for assets, so the game isn't so 2D looking, too. That stuff is locked into the engine.
The engine is OLD and as much as they hack it to stay around, it's over 15 years-old. A lot of tech has changed since then, and patching an engine doesn't improve it. It simply gets bogged down.
What hit Titan hard was it takes at least 4 years to build a new engine (why you see the mess with EA trying to force fit a FPS Frostbyte engine in ALL their games -- that is a mess if they tried. Each genre has specific needs, a one-size-fits-all engine wouldn't work). The teams were waiting on the engine, and Blizzard couldn't have that many on the payroll doing nothing, either. While they waited 2 months for improvements, they brainstormed the concept of Overwatch. That was easier to produce and went from there.
So videos like this got it wrong. Overwatch wasn't even an idea until LONG after they were working on Titan...
^^ You can even see the Draenai and Pandarian architecture in that video. So, yes, it was a continuation of WoW. See the hole entrance of the Pandarian homes even??? The Shard like buildings of WoD's Shattath??? The Stormwind clock tower and church???
It was really the sequel of the WoW we know.
Err, did you actually watch this video? MMOFPS based on an average Joe i.e. cook turned superhero in a futuristic Sci fi world?
Makes sense they repurposed / reused the art assets in WOW but in calling it a sequel is really reaching regardless what the CEO said. (As if they ever know what really is going on)
It's like trying to claim Warhammer Online and ESO are sequels to DAOC..
I bet people'll say the same thing about Camelot Unchained when it population dwindled.
WoW was made for the solo players. Now the market is full with such games. So WoW2 should not be WoW to be something new and successful. The new milestones for success are LoL and Fortnite. I doubt Blizzard could make a competitive MMORPG. That is why you got WoW Classic - you know, when something failed, they always could release a "classic" version.
WARCRAFT series was made for solo players. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG. Two different games.
WoW was kind of MMO at the beginning. But even then it was a solo player focused game. Can I play WoW singleplayer from the start to the maximum level? I can, as anybody else. So it is not a MMO. There is some multiplayer content, that I could use if I want, but it is not mandatory.
It is 20 hours of solo content, and 1000 hours of group content after.
There is another person on this forum keep bashing me when I told her people complain wow is too solo focused(she claim wow don't have much solo end game content).
How do you count the content? Because 80% of the content of WoW is solo. You could make only raids for example - so 100% multiplayer experience. But this is less than 10% of the content of the game. Do you realize, you even count the content of a MMO as that of a singleplayer game? In a singleplayer game the content and your playing experience are almost alike. But in a MMO - you could grind 1000 hours in a content that needs less than 1 hour to be made. So your claim for WoW is obviously false.
There is also dungeon and pvp, not just raid. I think what people are saying is it takes 20 hours to reach max level right? And the only thing to do at max level is dungeon, raid, and pvp.
You can also grind easy mob in the open world and farm for money, or remake an alt. But there isn't much thing to do solo beside that.
I'm saying it in a simplified manner. Obviously developer try to throw some shallow solo player content like daily everyday. And they put out solo events every now and then...
I personally spend half of the time solo and half the time grouping in those type of game. And my play time is a few thousand hours. Most of my solo play times is making new alt.
You are missing the point. The content is made by the developers. The main content of WoW is the world map. The rest are the different instances. How you will play that content and how long is your personal choice. But your experience as a player is not the content of the game. In a singleplayer game, as you often follow some story-line, the content and the experience are related very close. But in a MMO, you decide. So the game may be 80% solo, but you can play only the multiplayer parts.
SO you think the game is a solo game when the game only have 20 hours of solo content and people some how manage to play 1000 hours...
I'm a few months behind, but just read an article about the making of Everquest in PCGamer.
It was pretty interesting how a team of 20 with a few million dollars was able to pretty much invent the concepts of 3D open world MMORPG with the expansive worlds and classes and races from scratch in 3 years alone from the ground up.
That was in around '97-'99 with a fledgling internet/network, and everything against them.
With the advances in online architecture not being such a roadblock anymore, why are teams of 100's with 100 times the budget not able to release a game within 3 years?
We're all waiting for MMORPG 2.0 to happen, so what is holding it back now?
Internet doesn't cost $6/minute any more, so it's not internet costs right?
3D graphics cards and most other components are way cheaper now right?
Where's the bottleneck?
Asking seriously, because I don't understand, TBH.
Are salaries/benefits too much to pay now for knowledgeable programmers?
Is it way too expensive to build a new game engine when compared to back then?
Is it too hard to find talented people to make a game now?
The article mentioned that since they were creating things from scratch it helped in a lot of ways by them not knowing most things, because they weren't aware of any limitations holding them back.
So are our bad experiences keeping us trapped in a creative box now?
I'd play WoW 2.0 if they learned and grew from WoW 1 and made an awesome new game...
I'm a few months behind, but just read an article about the making of Everquest in PCGamer.
It was pretty interesting how a team of 20 with a few million dollars was able to pretty much invent the concepts of 3D open world MMORPG with the expansive worlds and classes and races from scratch in 3 years alone from the ground up.
That was in around '97-'99 with a fledgling internet/network, and everything against them.
With the advances in online architecture not being such a roadblock anymore, why are teams of 100's with 100 times the budget not able to release a game within 3 years?
We're all waiting for MMORPG 2.0 to happen, so what is holding it back now?
Internet doesn't cost $6/minute any more, so it's not internet costs right?
3D graphics cards and most other components are way cheaper now right?
Where's the bottleneck?
Asking seriously, because I don't understand, TBH.
Are salaries/benefits too much to pay now for knowledgeable programmers?
Is it way too expensive to build a new game engine when compared to back then?
Is it too hard to find talented people to make a game now?
The article mentioned that since they were creating things from scratch it helped in a lot of ways by them not knowing most things, because they weren't aware of any limitations holding them back.
So are our bad experiences keeping us trapped in a creative box now?
I'd play WoW 2.0 if they learned and grew from WoW 1 and made an awesome new game...
Gut Out!
I have come to the conclusion that the talent in the gaming industry too spread out because the gaming industry is too big.
It's like when you have a sports league. Let's say you increased the amount of teams to 60 from 30. There are 20 serviceable QBs and out of that 20 10 are good and 5 legendary. You know have 60 teams with 2 to 3 QBs on each team. Imagine how bad the 60th worst QB is.
Then you add in the suits pulling so many strings it is not hard to see why things may not get done correctly.
WoW was made for the solo players. Now the market is full with such games. So WoW2 should not be WoW to be something new and successful. The new milestones for success are LoL and Fortnite. I doubt Blizzard could make a competitive MMORPG. That is why you got WoW Classic - you know, when something failed, they always could release a "classic" version.
WARCRAFT series was made for solo players. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG. Two different games.
WoW was kind of MMO at the beginning. But even then it was a solo player focused game. Can I play WoW singleplayer from the start to the maximum level? I can, as anybody else. So it is not a MMO. There is some multiplayer content, that I could use if I want, but it is not mandatory.
It is 20 hours of solo content, and 1000 hours of group content after.
There is another person on this forum keep bashing me when I told her people complain wow is too solo focused(she claim wow don't have much solo end game content).
How do you count the content? Because 80% of the content of WoW is solo. You could make only raids for example - so 100% multiplayer experience. But this is less than 10% of the content of the game. Do you realize, you even count the content of a MMO as that of a singleplayer game? In a singleplayer game the content and your playing experience are almost alike. But in a MMO - you could grind 1000 hours in a content that needs less than 1 hour to be made. So your claim for WoW is obviously false.
There is also dungeon and pvp, not just raid. I think what people are saying is it takes 20 hours to reach max level right? And the only thing to do at max level is dungeon, raid, and pvp.
You can also grind easy mob in the open world and farm for money, or remake an alt. But there isn't much thing to do solo beside that.
I'm saying it in a simplified manner. Obviously developer try to throw some shallow solo player content like daily everyday. And they put out solo events every now and then...
I personally spend half of the time solo and half the time grouping in those type of game. And my play time is a few thousand hours. Most of my solo play times is making new alt.
You are missing the point. The content is made by the developers. The main content of WoW is the world map. The rest are the different instances. How you will play that content and how long is your personal choice. But your experience as a player is not the content of the game. In a singleplayer game, as you often follow some story-line, the content and the experience are related very close. But in a MMO, you decide. So the game may be 80% solo, but you can play only the multiplayer parts.
SO you think the game is a solo game when the game only have 20 hours of solo content and people some how manage to play 1000 hours...
The content is not measured with hours. I never played WoW, but let say you can reach max level by playing solo on the world map for 20 hours. So for 20 hours you could play trough 80% (probably, maybe more than 80%) of the content of WoW. (I doubt 20 hours is correct, but anyway). Then you may spend 1000 hours doing multiplayer dungeons and arenas - 20% of the content. Honestly that ratio 20/1000 obliviously shows how wrong is the design of WoW. (Maybe it is not 20, but anyway the ratio is very much in the favor of a small part of the actual content) You simply use the word content at a wrong way. The content are the maps, lore, quests, mobs, NPCs, physics and etc. features created by the developers. How much time you spend playing that content is a different question.
And you somehow think that just because you can get ganked in some games, that make it more group focused?
I actually spend almost all my time soloing in that games.
WoW was made for the solo players. Now the market is full with such games. So WoW2 should not be WoW to be something new and successful. The new milestones for success are LoL and Fortnite. I doubt Blizzard could make a competitive MMORPG. That is why you got WoW Classic - you know, when something failed, they always could release a "classic" version.
WARCRAFT series was made for solo players. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG. Two different games.
WoW was kind of MMO at the beginning. But even then it was a solo player focused game. Can I play WoW singleplayer from the start to the maximum level? I can, as anybody else. So it is not a MMO. There is some multiplayer content, that I could use if I want, but it is not mandatory.
It is 20 hours of solo content, and 1000 hours of group content after.
There is another person on this forum keep bashing me when I told her people complain wow is too solo focused(she claim wow don't have much solo end game content).
How do you count the content? Because 80% of the content of WoW is solo. You could make only raids for example - so 100% multiplayer experience. But this is less than 10% of the content of the game. Do you realize, you even count the content of a MMO as that of a singleplayer game? In a singleplayer game the content and your playing experience are almost alike. But in a MMO - you could grind 1000 hours in a content that needs less than 1 hour to be made. So your claim for WoW is obviously false.
There is also dungeon and pvp, not just raid. I think what people are saying is it takes 20 hours to reach max level right? And the only thing to do at max level is dungeon, raid, and pvp.
You can also grind easy mob in the open world and farm for money, or remake an alt. But there isn't much thing to do solo beside that.
I'm saying it in a simplified manner. Obviously developer try to throw some shallow solo player content like daily everyday. And they put out solo events every now and then...
I personally spend half of the time solo and half the time grouping in those type of game. And my play time is a few thousand hours. Most of my solo play times is making new alt.
You are missing the point. The content is made by the developers. The main content of WoW is the world map. The rest are the different instances. How you will play that content and how long is your personal choice. But your experience as a player is not the content of the game. In a singleplayer game, as you often follow some story-line, the content and the experience are related very close. But in a MMO, you decide. So the game may be 80% solo, but you can play only the multiplayer parts.
SO you think the game is a solo game when the game only have 20 hours of solo content and people some how manage to play 1000 hours...
The content is not measured with hours. I never played WoW, but let say you can reach max level by playing solo on the world map for 20 hours. So for 20 hours you could play trough 80% (probably, maybe more than 80%) of the content of WoW. (I doubt 20 hours is correct, but anyway). Then you may spend 1000 hours doing multiplayer dungeons and arenas - 20% of the content. Honestly that ratio 20/1000 obliviously shows how wrong is the design of WoW. (Maybe it is not 20, but anyway the ratio is very much in the favor of a small part of the actual content) You simply use the word content at a wrong way. The content are the maps, lore, quests, mobs, NPCs, physics and etc. features created by the developers. How much time you spend playing that content is a different question.
And you somehow think that just because you can get ganked in some games, that make it more group focused?
I actually spend almost all my time soloing in that games.
60% group !!! Thats right, at least for vanilla World of Warcraft, later expansions are a different subject all together. I've played Vanilla WoW from both retail and beyond on emulators for many years.
With that I can safely 60% group. MOST quest can't be done solo at the level range it was intended. It was made that way for people to find others. Can you play to level 60 solo.... Sure you can... why ?.... Because the game is that large !!!!
WoW was kind of MMO at the beginning. But even then it was a solo player focused game. Can I play WoW singleplayer from the start to the maximum level? I can, as anybody else. So it is not a MMO. There is some multiplayer content, that I could use if I want, but it is not mandatory.
Lord have mercy, I know new players come to gaming, but that statement is clearly wrong. Point blank.
MMORPGs doesn't mean you HAVE to play multiplayer all the time (there's plenty you can solo, even in the "old skool" MMOs -- you do know a major part of RPGs is crafting, for example???). It does mean it's designed to be played with others, though.
It's not a personal serfdom, like true solo games. If you cheat/exploit/bot in a MMO you can lose your account, for example, because the game isn't designed to be a solo game where you can do as you please. It's not Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim.
Err, did you actually watch this video? MMOFPS based on an average Joe i.e. cook turned superhero in a futuristic Sci fi world?
Makes sense they repurposed / reused the art assets in WOW but in calling it a sequel is really reaching regardless what the CEO said. (As if they ever know what really is going on)
It's like trying to claim Warhammer Online and ESO are sequels to DAOC..
Did you read the article about what WoW's former CEO said? Not ideas of what you think? He specifically said Titan was the WoW sequel. The newer remake of the old world.
Titan was being worked on for 7 years and it was BEFORE Overwatch was even an idea (that came later, and the regret he had was the teams lost scope, because they became excited with Overwatch). Overwatch came when they were waiting on the tools to make production faster (they were retooling, and it was a 2 month down time). Overwatch came much later, and after the main assets were done.
WoW 2.0 wasn't a shooter.
The video is a view of Overwatch, not Titan. A reminisce of what could've been.
The assets were CLEARLY WoW as people know it, even down to the MOP buildings and Stormwind.
WoW was made for the solo players. Now the market is full with such games. So WoW2 should not be WoW to be something new and successful. The new milestones for success are LoL and Fortnite. I doubt Blizzard could make a competitive MMORPG. That is why you got WoW Classic - you know, when something failed, they always could release a "classic" version.
WARCRAFT series was made for solo players. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG. Two different games.
WoW was kind of MMO at the beginning. But even then it was a solo player focused game. Can I play WoW singleplayer from the start to the maximum level? I can, as anybody else. So it is not a MMO. There is some multiplayer content, that I could use if I want, but it is not mandatory.
It is 20 hours of solo content, and 1000 hours of group content after.
There is another person on this forum keep bashing me when I told her people complain wow is too solo focused(she claim wow don't have much solo end game content).
How do you count the content? Because 80% of the content of WoW is solo. You could make only raids for example - so 100% multiplayer experience. But this is less than 10% of the content of the game. Do you realize, you even count the content of a MMO as that of a singleplayer game? In a singleplayer game the content and your playing experience are almost alike. But in a MMO - you could grind 1000 hours in a content that needs less than 1 hour to be made. So your claim for WoW is obviously false.
There is also dungeon and pvp, not just raid. I think what people are saying is it takes 20 hours to reach max level right? And the only thing to do at max level is dungeon, raid, and pvp.
You can also grind easy mob in the open world and farm for money, or remake an alt. But there isn't much thing to do solo beside that.
I'm saying it in a simplified manner. Obviously developer try to throw some shallow solo player content like daily everyday. And they put out solo events every now and then...
I personally spend half of the time solo and half the time grouping in those type of game. And my play time is a few thousand hours. Most of my solo play times is making new alt.
You are missing the point. The content is made by the developers. The main content of WoW is the world map. The rest are the different instances. How you will play that content and how long is your personal choice. But your experience as a player is not the content of the game. In a singleplayer game, as you often follow some story-line, the content and the experience are related very close. But in a MMO, you decide. So the game may be 80% solo, but you can play only the multiplayer parts.
SO you think the game is a solo game when the game only have 20 hours of solo content and people some how manage to play 1000 hours...
The content is not measured with hours. I never played WoW, but let say you can reach max level by playing solo on the world map for 20 hours. So for 20 hours you could play trough 80% (probably, maybe more than 80%) of the content of WoW. (I doubt 20 hours is correct, but anyway). Then you may spend 1000 hours doing multiplayer dungeons and arenas - 20% of the content. Honestly that ratio 20/1000 obliviously shows how wrong is the design of WoW. (Maybe it is not 20, but anyway the ratio is very much in the favor of a small part of the actual content) You simply use the word content at a wrong way. The content are the maps, lore, quests, mobs, NPCs, physics and etc. features created by the developers. How much time you spend playing that content is a different question.
And you somehow think that just because you can get ganked in some games, that make it more group focused?
I actually spend almost all my time soloing in that games.
Well, what you do is up to you, and it is not the content of any game. Solo content is such without competition and need of cooperation. So count.
I notice you just keep using "MMO" and not "MMORPG", too. Do you even play A MMORPG and especially the RPG part? There's PLENTY to do BUT raid/dungeon/PvP.
I don't do group content but with my sis or a stray world boss these days. I don't play MMORPGs for PvP (that I'd play FPS games for). MMORPGs are for doing OTHER things BUT what you can do with PvP games. It's a virtual living world, and 1001 things to do in it...
^^ Uuna's quest line is a very sad tale. If you haven't done it yet, it's worth doing. It adds more background into just how awful those demons are. You'll need her for Ba'al (and that quest line is a nice challenge, too).
While it may bore you to tears, there are other worlds of play to do in WoW. You can specialize in it even (pets [and those achieves are getting larger DUE TO IT'S POPULARITY], especially).
Anyone says that there's ONLY XYZ to do in WoW, check their achieves. You can bet they haven't done even 1/4 of the content, too.
Thecnically theres a lot to do of such sort in many games. How well mini-games tether back into the bigger scope of the gameplay tends to more be where relevance, and interest, drops off because "more to do" does not itself translate into "more relevant (or at least entertaining) stuff to do.
Unless your entertainment is in achievement hunting itself(or something similar like cosmetic/collectible hunting) that's not likely enough justification to participate in the frayed ends of a game.
If you are wondering @ikcin is one of those people keep claiming wow is solo focused. I think he go as far as saying wow is solo player.
I'm not sure what you thought of it. But remember you saying there isn't enough solo content of sort(or you are just complaining about ways to acquire gear).
You're rather far from reality there, as the conversation you are referencing was about a variety of things as it related to narrow endgame focus (which as it applies here, relates back to the point of "relevant content", IE content that ties back to the core progression of the game rather than being an isolated tangent), which it was you that chose to focus on solo content in spite of myself and others talking about many multiplayer and community-focused elements.
You're rather far from reality there, as the conversation you are referencing was about a variety of things as it related to narrow endgame focus (which as it applies here, relates back to the point of "relevant content", IE content that ties back to the core progression of the game rather than being an isolated tangent), which it was you that chose to focus on solo content in spite of myself and others talking about many multiplayer and community-focused elements.
I'm just saying you are complaining about no end game solo content, while the other guy is complaining that there is only solo content when he is leveling up(and he go as far calling wow solo player game).
Maybe you can educate the guy wow isn't a solo player game.
And quite honestly I spend half of my time soloing/grouping. Grant that is because I'm an altaholic. But the solo content isn't half bad in theme park games.
Yet again, that is not the complaint. Are you capable of saying anything that's not a lie?
How many ways does it need to be professed that the only person here that's focused on solo content is yourself, that you would be so annoying as to bring it up in an entirely separate thread just to rant about it?
Stop projecting your own psychosis on others.
If you want to respond to what I actually wrote, regarding the case of disparate game content bearing little relevancy to other components of the game, or to feeding back into the core gameplay loop(s) of the game, then feel free to do so.
If you're going to keep making nonsense up, I'd rather you stop trolling.
Yet again, that is not the complaint. Are you capable of saying anything that's not a lie?
How many ways does it need to be professed that the only person here that's focused on solo content is yourself, that you would be so annoying as to bring it up in an entirely separate thread just to rant about it?
Stop projecting your own psychosis on others.
If you want to respond to what I actually wrote, regarding the case of disparate game content bearing little relevancy to other components of the game, or to feeding back into the core gameplay loop(s) of the game, then feel free to do so.
If you're going to keep making nonsense up, I'd rather you stop trolling.
lol, you are the one saying there isn't enough solo content in wow.
It is just hilarious you rather argue with me than people who claiming wow is already a solo player game. And should focus more on group content.
Yet again, that is not the complaint. Are you capable of saying anything that's not a lie?
How many ways does it need to be professed that the only person here that's focused on solo content is yourself, that you would be so annoying as to bring it up in an entirely separate thread just to rant about it?
Stop projecting your own psychosis on others.
If you want to respond to what I actually wrote, regarding the case of disparate game content bearing little relevancy to other components of the game, or to feeding back into the core gameplay loop(s) of the game, then feel free to do so.
If you're going to keep making nonsense up, I'd rather you stop trolling.
l-
And yet you are incapable of providing a single quote where I make such a claim because your comments are works of fiction.
Go argue with yourself instead of dragging others into your delusions.
In the Southern part of my country is a saying " The South will rise again "
I think this is Blizzard's motto too
The industry is now WIDE OPEN....History will repeat itself
Um, that saying does not mean what you think it means, especially if you are referring the U.S. South.
Blizzard, I am sure, wants to rise but here is a counterpoint. Once again you have set yourself against the world and already managed to say if you disagree with me you are not a gamer. Well at least your writing is improving, kudos on that.
You said it yourself, gamers have changed. The people that want a true MMORPG, the dungeon crawls, social experience, the thrill of exploring a new world, challenging content, they are extremely minimal. The majority of gamers can barely focus on a game for 15 minutes, they need constant action, big rewards for minimal input, and they don't really want to socialize beyond what is needed to get to the next. Keep in mind, nowhere did I say all.
I think if anything is going to shake up the industry it will be something similar to what WoWW did back in the day. They took what was working in MMO's at that point, put it all together in a bright easy to play difficult to master game, and advertised it to the masses.
WoW (blizz) made gaming (in the West) mainstream more so than anything else out there. It brought in people that had never gamed before, it brought in people from other games, you saw it everywhere.
I also think that because gaming is so mainstream now, and so diverse we won't see that again. Millions used WoW as their gateway game, and now they have moved on to what they prefer, they have settled into their own niche and most, as far as I have seen, are comfortable there. I agree it will take a developer taking a big risk on a not popular concept to do what WoW did to gaming ion the early 2K's. I also think no one wants to take that risk. Why risk going broke, or out of business when you can publish a sure thing and be on to your next money making project? To try to topple Blizzard? Everyone that has tried thus far has failed, some to the extent of going straight out of business.
TLDR: You're right, but the risk is not worth the reward and it won't happen.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Comments
Sometimes game developers misuse words, you know like MMO or sandbox, same thing here.
While sequel can be used to describe an action which occurs due to a previous one, in the terms of published works the meaning is specific, "a published, broadcast, or recorded work that continues the story or develops the theme of an earlier one"
Doesn't seem like Titan really fit this description especially considering how its assets were repurposed into Overwatch.
Not that I play it, but didn't see any Orcs or Taurens in the video clips.
Its like saying Red Sparrow is the sequel to Atomic Blond because they both have female assassins who cleverly double cross their employers, kill people and have Russian villains in them.
Never mind they are set over 20 years apart, have totally different actors, both are movies right, so must be a sequel.
No.
Though I did read they might bring Charlize Therons character into the next John Wick movie, if so they'll need to use time travel or something and it will muddy the waters a bit on which movie it is a sequel of.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
WARCRAFT series was made for solo players. World of Warcraft is a MMORPG. Two different games.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
There is another person on this forum keep bashing me when I told her people complain wow is too solo focused(she claim wow don't have much solo end game content).
You can also grind easy mob in the open world and farm for money, or remake an alt. But there isn't much thing to do solo beside that.
I'm saying it in a simplified manner. Obviously developer try to throw some shallow solo player content like daily everyday. And they put out solo events every now and then...
I personally spend half of the time solo and half the time grouping in those type of game. And my play time is a few thousand hours. Most of my solo play times is making new alt.
Makes sense they repurposed / reused the art assets in WOW but in calling it a sequel is really reaching regardless what the CEO said. (As if they ever know what really is going on)
It's like trying to claim Warhammer Online and ESO are sequels to DAOC..
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It was pretty interesting how a team of 20 with a few million dollars was able to pretty much invent the concepts of 3D open world MMORPG with the expansive worlds and classes and races from scratch in 3 years alone from the ground up.
That was in around '97-'99 with a fledgling internet/network, and everything against them.
With the advances in online architecture not being such a roadblock anymore, why are teams of 100's with 100 times the budget not able to release a game within 3 years?
We're all waiting for MMORPG 2.0 to happen, so what is holding it back now?
Internet doesn't cost $6/minute any more, so it's not internet costs right?
3D graphics cards and most other components are way cheaper now right?
Where's the bottleneck?
Asking seriously, because I don't understand, TBH.
Are salaries/benefits too much to pay now for knowledgeable programmers?
Is it way too expensive to build a new game engine when compared to back then?
Is it too hard to find talented people to make a game now?
The article mentioned that since they were creating things from scratch it helped in a lot of ways by them not knowing most things, because they weren't aware of any limitations holding them back.
So are our bad experiences keeping us trapped in a creative box now?
I'd play WoW 2.0 if they learned and grew from WoW 1 and made an awesome new game...
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
It's like when you have a sports league. Let's say you increased the amount of teams to 60 from 30. There are 20 serviceable QBs and out of that 20 10 are good and 5 legendary. You know have 60 teams with 2 to 3 QBs on each team. Imagine how bad the 60th worst QB is.
Then you add in the suits pulling so many strings it is not hard to see why things may not get done correctly.
So basically spread talent and company culture.
I actually spend almost all my time soloing in that games.
Thats right, at least for vanilla World of Warcraft, later expansions are a different subject all together. I've played Vanilla WoW from both retail and beyond on emulators for many years.
With that I can safely 60% group. MOST quest can't be done solo at the level range it was intended. It was made that way for people to find others. Can you play to level 60 solo.... Sure you can... why ?.... Because the game is that large !!!!
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Unless your entertainment is in achievement hunting itself(or something similar like cosmetic/collectible hunting) that's not likely enough justification to participate in the frayed ends of a game.
If you are wondering @ikcin is one of those people keep claiming wow is solo focused. I think he go as far as saying wow is solo player.
I'm not sure what you thought of it. But remember you saying there isn't enough solo content of sort(or you are just complaining about ways to acquire gear).
Maybe you can educate the guy wow isn't a solo player game.
And quite honestly I spend half of my time soloing/grouping. Grant that is because I'm an altaholic. But the solo content isn't half bad in theme park games.
How many ways does it need to be professed that the only person here that's focused on solo content is yourself, that you would be so annoying as to bring it up in an entirely separate thread just to rant about it?
Stop projecting your own psychosis on others.
If you want to respond to what I actually wrote, regarding the case of disparate game content bearing little relevancy to other components of the game, or to feeding back into the core gameplay loop(s) of the game, then feel free to do so.
If you're going to keep making nonsense up, I'd rather you stop trolling.
It is just hilarious you rather argue with me than people who claiming wow is already a solo player game. And should focus more on group content.
Go argue with yourself instead of dragging others into your delusions.
Blizzard, I am sure, wants to rise but here is a counterpoint. Once again you have set yourself against the world and already managed to say if you disagree with me you are not a gamer. Well at least your writing is improving, kudos on that.
You said it yourself, gamers have changed. The people that want a true MMORPG, the dungeon crawls, social experience, the thrill of exploring a new world, challenging content, they are extremely minimal. The majority of gamers can barely focus on a game for 15 minutes, they need constant action, big rewards for minimal input, and they don't really want to socialize beyond what is needed to get to the next. Keep in mind, nowhere did I say all.
I think if anything is going to shake up the industry it will be something similar to what WoWW did back in the day. They took what was working in MMO's at that point, put it all together in a bright easy to play difficult to master game, and advertised it to the masses.
WoW (blizz) made gaming (in the West) mainstream more so than anything else out there. It brought in people that had never gamed before, it brought in people from other games, you saw it everywhere.
I also think that because gaming is so mainstream now, and so diverse we won't see that again. Millions used WoW as their gateway game, and now they have moved on to what they prefer, they have settled into their own niche and most, as far as I have seen, are comfortable there. I agree it will take a developer taking a big risk on a not popular concept to do what WoW did to gaming ion the early 2K's. I also think no one wants to take that risk. Why risk going broke, or out of business when you can publish a sure thing and be on to your next money making project? To try to topple Blizzard? Everyone that has tried thus far has failed, some to the extent of going straight out of business.
TLDR: You're right, but the risk is not worth the reward and it won't happen.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.