FF XIV does not have to be a clone of WoW to be very influenced by it, WoW set a direction of travel and FF IV is one of the few along with the likes of Lotro that did something rather different. But they still followed the path set out by WoW they were not radical departures.
Final Fantasy I was published in 1987 and FFXI was launched in May 2002 - so before WoW. @Wizardry might be able to compare the two back then. Probably fare to say though that Final Fantasy had established its own path by then.
In all fairness, FFXIV 1.0 was 90% FF and maybe 10% WoW, FFXIV ARR is 60% FF and 40% WoW. They most definitely WoWefied the game for their rerelease. Not saying that that is a bad thing btw, FFXIV AAR is a superior product to me, 1.0 was a huge disappointment imo.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
FF XIV does not have to be a clone of WoW to be very influenced by it, WoW set a direction of travel and FF IV is one of the few along with the likes of Lotro that did something rather different. But they still followed the path set out by WoW they were not radical departures.
Final Fantasy I was published in 1987 and FFXI was launched in May 2002 - so before WoW. @Wizardry might be able to compare the two back then. Probably fare to say though that Final Fantasy had established its own path by then.
In all fairness, FFXIV 1.0 was 90% FF and maybe 10% WoW, FFXIV ARR is 60% FF and 40% WoW. They most definitely WoWefied the game for their rerelease. Not saying that that is a bad thing btw, FFXIV AAR is a superior product to me, 1.0 was a huge disappointment imo.
/Cheers,
Going by results and general acceptance, wouldn't you say that the revamped iteration is far superior to what was originally offered and died pretty much at launch?
The overall discussion on whether FFXIV is a WoW clone sounds like cheap troll bait and hardly warrants a column or a serious discussion.
FF XIV does not have to be a clone of WoW to be very influenced by it, WoW set a direction of travel and FF IV is one of the few along with the likes of Lotro that did something rather different. But they still followed the path set out by WoW they were not radical departures.
Final Fantasy I was published in 1987 and FFXI was launched in May 2002 - so before WoW. @Wizardry might be able to compare the two back then. Probably fare to say though that Final Fantasy had established its own path by then.
In all fairness, FFXIV 1.0 was 90% FF and maybe 10% WoW, FFXIV ARR is 60% FF and 40% WoW. They most definitely WoWefied the game for their rerelease. Not saying that that is a bad thing btw, FFXIV AAR is a superior product to me, 1.0 was a huge disappointment imo.
/Cheers,
Going by results and general acceptance, wouldn't you say that the revamped iteration is far superior to what was originally offered and died pretty much at launch?
The overall discussion on whether FFXIV is a WoW clone sounds like cheap troll bait and hardly warrants a column or a serious discussion.
Definitely! On both accounts btw
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"WoW clone" means the game is/has most of this list:
MMORPG Third person WASD movement Tab target Hotbars Global Cooldown on instants Guided leveling through quest hubs Instanced dungeons and raids Forgiving gameplay that doesn't punish mistakes (item and XP/level loss) Restricted PvP Color coded item quality Mounts summonable from thin air Talent trees to customize/specialize each class Playerbase divided into factions
FFXIV hits most of the points on this list. It's a WoW clone.
Is being a WoW clone a bad thing? Depends on how much you love/hate WoW. If you've burned through all of the content in WoW but want more of it, then having a bunch of similar games that you can jump into and enjoy your favorite style of game with new content and classes, it's obviously great. If you hate WoW then obviously you don't like so many game cloning their core design.
All the things you mentioned were in mmorpgs before WoW and were copied by WoW. Blizzard's thing was never innovating, which would excuse calling something a Blizzard clone game. Blizzard was always about copying the popular trends and polishing them to perfection. At least, that was true until Activision kicked the soul out of what we know as Blizzard.
All the things you mentioned were in mmorpgs before WoW and were copied by WoW. Blizzard's thing was never innovating, which would excuse calling something a Blizzard clone game. Blizzard was always about copying the popular trends and polishing them to perfection. At least, that was true until Activision kicked the soul out of what we know as Blizzard.
Wheels and motors existed before the automobile. At some point a designer put them together into a 4-wheeled, motor driven carriage with a steering wheel that has remained the template for every car made since. Some have more bells and whistles, but they're still cars and you know a car when you see it.
WoW created the template for an entire genre of MMORPGS colloquially known as "WoW clones". Some have better engines, more neat features, and run faster, but they're still following that template and you know a WoW clone when you see it.
All the things you mentioned were in mmorpgs before WoW and were copied by WoW. Blizzard's thing was never innovating, which would excuse calling something a Blizzard clone game. Blizzard was always about copying the popular trends and polishing them to perfection. At least, that was true until Activision kicked the soul out of what we know as Blizzard.
Wheels and motors existed before the automobile. At some point a designer put them together into a 4-wheeled, motor driven carriage with a steering wheel that has remained the template for every car made since. Some have more bells and whistles, but they're still cars and you know a car when you see it.
WoW created the template for an entire genre of MMORPGS colloquially known as "WoW clones". Some have better engines, more neat features, and run faster, but they're still following that template and you know a WoW clone when you see it.
Actually that would be AC, since WoW is a direct derivative of that mmorpg.
If you ignore FFXIV 1.0 (as you should), there is nearly a full decade between the release of the two games in question. OF COURSE the newer game is going to feature some improvements over the game(s) that inspired it, but that doesn't mean it's actually innovative or groundbreaking.
In fact, SquareEnix developers will fully acknowledge that they took a more conservative approach after the disastrous release of 1.0. They were in no position to take chances, so they stuck with tried-and-true formulas and tropes to make sure 2.0 would be a playable, approachable experience for FF fans and MMO players alike.
So let's not pretend that FFXIV is actually innovative. At its core, it is tethered to many of the same problems as WoW and EverQuest: vertical progression leading to dead zones, endless endgame gear grind, and "quality of life" features that sap the game of any sense of community.
When I hear "WoW clone," those are the problems I think of. Quibbling about other details doesn't matter at all if a game has not managed to innovate enough to solve one or more of those issues (among many others).
"WoW clone" means the game is/has most of this list:
MMORPG Third person WASD movement Tab target Hotbars Global Cooldown on instants Guided leveling through quest hubs Instanced dungeons and raids Forgiving gameplay that doesn't punish mistakes (item and XP/level loss) Restricted PvP Color coded item quality Mounts summonable from thin air Talent trees to customize/specialize each class Playerbase divided into factions
FFXIV hits most of the points on this list. It's a WoW clone.
Is being a WoW clone a bad thing? Depends on how much you love/hate WoW. If you've burned through all of the content in WoW but want more of it, then having a bunch of similar games that you can jump into and enjoy your favorite style of game with new content and classes, it's obviously great. If you hate WoW then obviously you don't like so many game cloning their core design.
Since FF pre-dated WoW - by your own argument - WoW must be ..... an FF clone! WoW, I think, had some unique features at launch - rest experience I believe - but those features pre-date WoW.
Oh come on, games have swapped mechanics and looks since the dawn of time. And if FFXIV is doing well then good for them. This is just bitter tears from Blizz. Let them weep, they screwed up WoW. FFXIV doesn't need to mimic that.
It's a quest grinding, gear farming, raid-hopping treadmill. That's why it's a WoW clone. The only thing they didn't clone was the good PvP WoW has (compared to what FFXIV does have).
Also, fanboy forum posts masquerading as news on MMORPG.com? Interesting...
People can find differences but when i talk about clones i look at the CORE game design,what are players predominantly playing for and doing.
Well WOW is played to grind gear from instance fights,Item level gear.
FFXIV fight instance fights to get item level gear..yep pretty much a clone.
FFXIV just does more,looks way better ,just a better overall version of Wow like Wow 3.0 or 4.0 instead of Wow 2.0.
What actually happened with FFXIV is sort of a long story.To cut it short...simple,FFXI fans adored the FF franchise,all they asked for was an upgrade in graphics.This was at a time when Square was struggling to port FFXI and developing a new engine so the execs were getting greedy.This is back when they said no way to remakes of old games,so yo ucan see they simply did not want half way profits,they wanted to make a NEW game to sell at max value,you know around $80 or so.
A FFXI graphic overhaul would NOT net SE any profits,they would not get $80 per player,so they went for the FFXIV idea.They tried sooooo hard to make FFXIV appear different ,they actually ruined the best mechanics,core designs of FFXI in doing so.They set out to copy other successful games,such as Wow as acknowledged by SE.
Anyhow,FFXIV was rushed because was costing SE too much money but was NEVER going to be as good as FFXI's core basic class/combat design.They did add new ideas,much better graphics ...obviously,but still after playing FFXIV for about 8 months or so,i felt let down,FFXI was just a better game.
No matter because at some point,their new regime decided to turn FFXI into an item level game as well....GRRRRRRR,so thanks to some dumb asshats,they managed to ruin BOTH FF games.Luckily FFXI is so deep i can still find a LOT of fun gaming there but my interest now lies with Atlas but that game is struggling to find someone with a clue on how to setup servers.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This article is a clone of a crappy reddit post I read a few years ago. I don't have a source for you, but luckily the author of this article did even less research than I did, so I think I'm in the clear. Also, could you be more in love with run-on sentences? Your grammar is atrocious and I'm pretty sure you should expect a lawsuit from the comma for abusing it in ways that no decent person would.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
Wow an EQ2 clone, EQ2 was the first modern day themepark with feathers for quest markers. It was also out before wow, 2weeks or not it still came first.
Ffxiv is nothing like wow, let's face it all mmo's follow the quest system.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
Following a success story is not a new thing. We only have to look at MOBAs and Battle Royales and all the trends that pop up from time to time.
The thing is, even if you have the exact starting point, you can end up with two games that are superficially similar, but play very differently. Case in point, WoW Classic and WoW normal.
As for the comparisons between WoW and FFXIV, WoW is an MMOrpg, while FFXIV is an mmoRPG.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
Following a success story is not a new thing. We only have to look at MOBAs and Battle Royales and all the trends that pop up from time to time.
The thing is, even if you have the exact starting point, you can end up with two games that are superficially similar, but play very differently. Case in point, WoW Classic and WoW normal.
As for the comparisons between WoW and FFXIV, WoW is an MMOrpg, while FFXIV is an mmoRPG.
If you are arguing that subtle differences make things technically not clones, then yeah, you are technically right. They are not exactly the same. But their similarities are so enormous that many people use short hand to refer to games like FFXIV, SWTOR, Rift and others as WoW clones. WoW clone has essentially become a genre itself.
Before WoW clones flooded the market (like 2008-2015), there was MMORPG diversity (FFXI, AC, DAoC, EVE, EQ, UO, Meridian 59, Shadowbane, SWG). And some MMORPG diversity is emerging right now as well. FFXIV is not part of that diversity.
And that last sentence is some strange bullshit. There is nothing more MMO about WoW and nothing more RPG about FFXIV. In fact, in FFXIV, within a job at least, there is almost no build diversity. WoW, with it's woefully lacking customization still has, effectively, 30+ classes with more customization options in each class.
I am curious though. What exactly did you mean by that comment in case I'm misinterpreting what you're saying?
Comments
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The most ancient of general chat incantations. I never thought I'd see it again.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
MMORPG
Third person
WASD movement
Tab target
Hotbars
Global Cooldown on instants
Guided leveling through quest hubs
Instanced dungeons and raids
Forgiving gameplay that doesn't punish mistakes (item and XP/level loss)
Restricted PvP
Color coded item quality
Mounts summonable from thin air
Talent trees to customize/specialize each class
Playerbase divided into factions
FFXIV hits most of the points on this list. It's a WoW clone.
Is being a WoW clone a bad thing? Depends on how much you love/hate WoW. If you've burned through all of the content in WoW but want more of it, then having a bunch of similar games that you can jump into and enjoy your favorite style of game with new content and classes, it's obviously great. If you hate WoW then obviously you don't like so many game cloning their core design.
WoW created the template for an entire genre of MMORPGS colloquially known as "WoW clones". Some have better engines, more neat features, and run faster, but they're still following that template and you know a WoW clone when you see it.
In fact, SquareEnix developers will fully acknowledge that they took a more conservative approach after the disastrous release of 1.0. They were in no position to take chances, so they stuck with tried-and-true formulas and tropes to make sure 2.0 would be a playable, approachable experience for FF fans and MMO players alike.
So let's not pretend that FFXIV is actually innovative. At its core, it is tethered to many of the same problems as WoW and EverQuest: vertical progression leading to dead zones, endless endgame gear grind, and "quality of life" features that sap the game of any sense of community.
When I hear "WoW clone," those are the problems I think of. Quibbling about other details doesn't matter at all if a game has not managed to innovate enough to solve one or more of those issues (among many others).
That's even still a thing?
Well WOW is played to grind gear from instance fights,Item level gear.
FFXIV fight instance fights to get item level gear..yep pretty much a clone.
FFXIV just does more,looks way better ,just a better overall version of Wow like Wow 3.0 or 4.0 instead of Wow 2.0.
What actually happened with FFXIV is sort of a long story.To cut it short...simple,FFXI fans adored the FF franchise,all they asked for was an upgrade in graphics.This was at a time when Square was struggling to port FFXI and developing a new engine so the execs were getting greedy.This is back when they said no way to remakes of old games,so yo ucan see they simply did not want half way profits,they wanted to make a NEW game to sell at max value,you know around $80 or so.
A FFXI graphic overhaul would NOT net SE any profits,they would not get $80 per player,so they went for the FFXIV idea.They tried sooooo hard to make FFXIV appear different ,they actually ruined the best mechanics,core designs of FFXI in doing so.They set out to copy other successful games,such as Wow as acknowledged by SE.
Anyhow,FFXIV was rushed because was costing SE too much money but was NEVER going to be as good as FFXI's core basic class/combat design.They did add new ideas,much better graphics ...obviously,but still after playing FFXIV for about 8 months or so,i felt let down,FFXI was just a better game.
No matter because at some point,their new regime decided to turn FFXI into an item level game as well....GRRRRRRR,so thanks to some dumb asshats,they managed to ruin BOTH FF games.Luckily FFXI is so deep i can still find a LOT of fun gaming there but my interest now lies with Atlas but that game is struggling to find someone with a clue on how to setup servers.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What does "better" actually mean? Because in this context, it is a word that means nothing.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
Ffxiv is nothing like wow, let's face it all mmo's follow the quest system.
The thing is, even if you have the exact starting point, you can end up with two games that are superficially similar, but play very differently. Case in point, WoW Classic and WoW normal.
As for the comparisons between WoW and FFXIV, WoW is an MMOrpg, while FFXIV is an mmoRPG.
Before WoW clones flooded the market (like 2008-2015), there was MMORPG diversity (FFXI, AC, DAoC, EVE, EQ, UO, Meridian 59, Shadowbane, SWG). And some MMORPG diversity is emerging right now as well. FFXIV is not part of that diversity.
And that last sentence is some strange bullshit. There is nothing more MMO about WoW and nothing more RPG about FFXIV. In fact, in FFXIV, within a job at least, there is almost no build diversity. WoW, with it's woefully lacking customization still has, effectively, 30+ classes with more customization options in each class.
I am curious though. What exactly did you mean by that comment in case I'm misinterpreting what you're saying?