Yoshi took a failing game and recreated it using elements from proven formulas. It worked. That said, there were many elements in FFXIV ARR that did not come from WoW. So even at the start, there were similarities and differences. But to define it as a clone of another game or not would be entirely subjective based on your experience and what you are looking for. In a technical checklist, I'd say you could make the argument. But to sit down and actually play them through, you will find the experience to be nothing alike.
You do misinterpret, because I was giving emphasis to the actual words those abbreviations come from.
FFXIV (for me) is more of a Role Playing Game, with more emphasis to the story elements and to the interaction with other players and the world. WoW on the other hand (and a lot of other mmorpgs) focus heavily on the mechanics part of the Massively Multiplayer Online part.
So your comment on build diversity (which some would argue that it's minimal even in WoW terms) does reinforce my point that WoW is focused more on the mechanical elements of the game. Chasing the next achievement. Playing the next minigame and so on. It's not that those elements don't exist in FFXIV. But they do take a back sit where the storytelling is involved, where the captivating element is the heart of the experience rather than the skinner box endorphin gratification.
You do misinterpret, because I was giving emphasis to the actual words those abbreviations come from.
FFXIV (for me) is more of a Role Playing Game, with more emphasis to the story elements and to the interaction with other players and the world. WoW on the other hand (and a lot of other mmorpgs) focus heavily on the mechanics part of the Massively Multiplayer Online part.
So your comment on build diversity (which some would argue that it's minimal even in WoW terms) does reinforce my point that WoW is focused more on the mechanical elements of the game. Chasing the next achievement. Playing the next minigame and so on. It's not that those elements don't exist in FFXIV. But they do take a back sit where the storytelling is involved, where the captivating element is the captivating experience rather than the skinner box endorphin gratification.
First, I don't think FFXIV has more player interaction than WoW in any universe. They are essentially the same in that regard and to be honest, it has more to do with the guild you are in and the friends you meet than any system that is in either game.
But the story is where FFXIV does stand apart somewhat in my opinion. In typical Final Fantasy fashion, they try to get really epic. But this also causes the game to feel a lot more linear and on rails. One of my main complaints when I played the game was the tedious amount of fetch quests and running back and forth. It was absurd back then. I don't know if they've changed that.
Either way, you're right that FFXIV focuses more on story and cut-scenes. There are REALLY long cut-scenes in FFXIV. But lets not pretend that FFXIV isn't just a skinner box with cut-scenes. It is. And so is WoW except with less cutscenes.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
Which is perfectly fine. I also think that BDO is an excellent game. Zero story. Practically no quests. Great gameplay. Invasive microtransaction cash shop that erased any desire I had to play it.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
WoW shares little in common with EQ really.
WoW vs EQ >Forgiving - punishing >questing - grinding >guided tour - exploration >instances - shared dungeons and raids (somebody else did the raid you wanted this week? Too bad) >ability bloat - very restrictive ability choices at any given time (you get what, 8 memorized spells?) >fast gameplay (by 2004 standards) - very slow gameplay >short downtime - very long downtime
They share little in common beyond being fantasy MMOs with raiding end game.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
Which is perfectly fine. I also think that BDO is an excellent game. Zero story. Practically no quests. Great gameplay. Invasive microtransaction cash shop that erased any desire I had to play it.
BDO has a story. It's not a very good one, and has been retconned repeatedly to the point that the launch story has little to do with the modern story, but it's long and quite detailed. In addition to the main story, it also has thousands of quests that flesh out the lore of individual areas.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
WoW shares little in common with EQ really.
WoW vs EQ >Forgiving - punishing >questing - grinding >guided tour - exploration >instances - shared dungeons and raids (somebody else did the raid you wanted this week? Too bad) >ability bloat - very restrictive ability choices at any given time (you get what, 8 memorized spells?) >fast gameplay (by 2004 standards) - very slow gameplay >short downtime - very long downtime
They share little in common beyond being fantasy MMOs with raiding end game.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
Which is perfectly fine. I also think that BDO is an excellent game. Zero story. Practically no quests. Great gameplay. Invasive microtransaction cash shop that erased any desire I had to play it.
BDO has a story. It's not a very good one, and has been retconned repeatedly to the point that the launch story has little to do with the modern story, but it's long and quite detailed. In addition to the main story, it also has thousands of quests that flesh out the lore of individual areas.
I agree with you. I think FFXIV is far closer to WoW than WoW is to EQ.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
WoW shares little in common with EQ really.
WoW vs EQ >Forgiving - punishing >questing - grinding >guided tour - exploration >instances - shared dungeons and raids (somebody else did the raid you wanted this week? Too bad) >ability bloat - very restrictive ability choices at any given time (you get what, 8 memorized spells?) >fast gameplay (by 2004 standards) - very slow gameplay >short downtime - very long downtime
They share little in common beyond being fantasy MMOs with raiding end game.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
Which is perfectly fine. I also think that BDO is an excellent game. Zero story. Practically no quests. Great gameplay. Invasive microtransaction cash shop that erased any desire I had to play it.
BDO has a story. It's not a very good one, and has been retconned repeatedly to the point that the launch story has little to do with the modern story, but it's long and quite detailed. In addition to the main story, it also has thousands of quests that flesh out the lore of individual areas.
I agree with you. I think FFXIV is far closer to WoW than WoW is to EQ.
It's a carbon copy with a new skin. The gameplay loop and content cycle is EXACTLY the same.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
WoW shares little in common with EQ really.
WoW vs EQ >Forgiving - punishing >questing - grinding >guided tour - exploration >instances - shared dungeons and raids (somebody else did the raid you wanted this week? Too bad) >ability bloat - very restrictive ability choices at any given time (you get what, 8 memorized spells?) >fast gameplay (by 2004 standards) - very slow gameplay >short downtime - very long downtime
They share little in common beyond being fantasy MMOs with raiding end game.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
Which is perfectly fine. I also think that BDO is an excellent game. Zero story. Practically no quests. Great gameplay. Invasive microtransaction cash shop that erased any desire I had to play it.
BDO has a story. It's not a very good one, and has been retconned repeatedly to the point that the launch story has little to do with the modern story, but it's long and quite detailed. In addition to the main story, it also has thousands of quests that flesh out the lore of individual areas.
I agree with you. I think FFXIV is far closer to WoW than WoW is to EQ.
It's a carbon copy with a new skin. The gameplay loop and content cycle is EXACTLY the same.
You named two very general items and call it a "carbon copy with a new skin". Contradiction much? An analogy to your absurd point would be a Hyundai Sonata is a carbon copy of a Toyota Corolla because the way they propel themselves (tires and an engine) is exactly the same.
What specifically is a "gameplay loop" and "content cycle" to you. And how does any progression-style MMO differ in these two categories?
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
WoW shares little in common with EQ really.
WoW vs EQ >Forgiving - punishing >questing - grinding >guided tour - exploration >instances - shared dungeons and raids (somebody else did the raid you wanted this week? Too bad) >ability bloat - very restrictive ability choices at any given time (you get what, 8 memorized spells?) >fast gameplay (by 2004 standards) - very slow gameplay >short downtime - very long downtime
They share little in common beyond being fantasy MMOs with raiding end game.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
Which is perfectly fine. I also think that BDO is an excellent game. Zero story. Practically no quests. Great gameplay. Invasive microtransaction cash shop that erased any desire I had to play it.
BDO has a story. It's not a very good one, and has been retconned repeatedly to the point that the launch story has little to do with the modern story, but it's long and quite detailed. In addition to the main story, it also has thousands of quests that flesh out the lore of individual areas.
I agree with you. I think FFXIV is far closer to WoW than WoW is to EQ.
It's a carbon copy with a new skin. The gameplay loop and content cycle is EXACTLY the same.
You named two very general items and call it a "carbon copy with a new skin". Contradiction much? An analogy to your absurd point would be a Hyundai Sonata is a carbon copy of a Toyota Corolla because the way they propel themselves (tires and an engine) is exactly the same.
What specifically is a "gameplay loop" and "content cycle" to you. And how does any progression-style MMO differ in these two categories?
FFXIV isn't progression-based, it's gear treamdill based. There is zero progression outside of gear. At least WoW has more than that, so yeah I guess it's actually worse.
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
WoW shares little in common with EQ really.
WoW vs EQ >Forgiving - punishing >questing - grinding >guided tour - exploration >instances - shared dungeons and raids (somebody else did the raid you wanted this week? Too bad) >ability bloat - very restrictive ability choices at any given time (you get what, 8 memorized spells?) >fast gameplay (by 2004 standards) - very slow gameplay >short downtime - very long downtime
They share little in common beyond being fantasy MMOs with raiding end game.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
Which is perfectly fine. I also think that BDO is an excellent game. Zero story. Practically no quests. Great gameplay. Invasive microtransaction cash shop that erased any desire I had to play it.
BDO has a story. It's not a very good one, and has been retconned repeatedly to the point that the launch story has little to do with the modern story, but it's long and quite detailed. In addition to the main story, it also has thousands of quests that flesh out the lore of individual areas.
I agree with you. I think FFXIV is far closer to WoW than WoW is to EQ.
It's a carbon copy with a new skin. The gameplay loop and content cycle is EXACTLY the same.
You named two very general items and call it a "carbon copy with a new skin". Contradiction much? An analogy to your absurd point would be a Hyundai Sonata is a carbon copy of a Toyota Corolla because the way they propel themselves (tires and an engine) is exactly the same.
What specifically is a "gameplay loop" and "content cycle" to you. And how does any progression-style MMO differ in these two categories?
FFXIV isn't progression-based, it's gear treamdill based. There is zero progression outside of gear. At least WoW has more than that, so yeah I guess it's actually worse.
I’ve played both extensively, what more options does WoW have?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Yes, the fundamental systems are so similar, that you would have to be stupid not to notice that they drew an enormous amount of design directly from WoW.
Give me a break. Blizzard is the biggest plagiarist on the market. All their games, all their systems are derivatives of something else in the market, copied in part or whole and implemented (to their credit) in the best possible way in their own games.
So if you see something in a Blizzard game, better ask who they borrowed the idea from, not whether others copied Blizzard.
Duh. WoW was largely based on EQ and streamlined a lot of it. But back before WoW, there were a lot of different types of MMORPGs. After WoW... well, you got a lot of clones like FFXIV. And that's because that's where the money was.
But I'm perfectly fine with you calling WoW an EQ clone if you want to.
WoW shares little in common with EQ really.
WoW vs EQ >Forgiving - punishing >questing - grinding >guided tour - exploration >instances - shared dungeons and raids (somebody else did the raid you wanted this week? Too bad) >ability bloat - very restrictive ability choices at any given time (you get what, 8 memorized spells?) >fast gameplay (by 2004 standards) - very slow gameplay >short downtime - very long downtime
They share little in common beyond being fantasy MMOs with raiding end game.
I know alot of you like FFXIV, but I thought it was a really bad game...It was way too much on rails for my liking...I like way more freedom than that game offers.
Which is perfectly fine. I also think that BDO is an excellent game. Zero story. Practically no quests. Great gameplay. Invasive microtransaction cash shop that erased any desire I had to play it.
BDO has a story. It's not a very good one, and has been retconned repeatedly to the point that the launch story has little to do with the modern story, but it's long and quite detailed. In addition to the main story, it also has thousands of quests that flesh out the lore of individual areas.
I agree with you. I think FFXIV is far closer to WoW than WoW is to EQ.
It's a carbon copy with a new skin. The gameplay loop and content cycle is EXACTLY the same.
You named two very general items and call it a "carbon copy with a new skin". Contradiction much? An analogy to your absurd point would be a Hyundai Sonata is a carbon copy of a Toyota Corolla because the way they propel themselves (tires and an engine) is exactly the same.
What specifically is a "gameplay loop" and "content cycle" to you. And how does any progression-style MMO differ in these two categories?
FFXIV isn't progression-based, it's gear treamdill based. There is zero progression outside of gear. At least WoW has more than that, so yeah I guess it's actually worse.
I’ve played both extensively, what more options does WoW have?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Talents and Azerite traits right now. To a very lesser extent, gems and enchants.
FFXIV:ARR and onward used WoW as its core model, as admitted to by the devs themselves. Is it a clone of WoW no it is not, but is it very WoW like in ways... yes.
They added new stuff to it that wow does not have and changed some things but it is more or less WoW at its core with a final fantasy skin on it.
Honestly I consider most Themepark MMO to be in a sense WoWish in style as they all use WoW's Item Levels system, gear tier system, linear progression, Quest Centric Leveling, raid tier system, patch models, and expansion models. (In my eye this is what makes it a WoW Style mmo)
Honestly in my Eye there are only really a hand full of models out there. The WoW themepark model. The (Oldschool) EQ Model (most older mmos Lineage, FFXI, EQ ect). The Sandbox model (AA, BDO). Each one is designed very different from the other.
You can more or less put all the mmos into one of these. Yes thing are different in terms of battle system, theme, and how indept it is in different areas but at its core it is almost always one of these. So in my eyes FFXIV is very WoWish when comparing it to its predecessor FFXI which was horizontal focused, hard cap on lvl increase across 4 expansions, content never negated, not quest focused, and was highly group and guild centric in every aspect of the game.
I will say you can Materia for gear and augment relic gear but yeah FF is lacking a bit in that department. Then again I am sure one could argue that there is a best way to use those talents and traits in WoW so everyone chooses the same stuff anyway. Of course that statement could be wrong I just found that to be the case in a lot of games now days. The whole illusion of choice deal lol.
You're not wrong. There are generally accepted best talents for raiding specifically. Some choices are dependent on where your gear is at. Some are always take no matter what. Some choices are actually choices. If you're a legit raider, you will switch choices based on boss as well (more or less AoE, maybe an extra cc helps, etc.).
The azerite stuff adds another layer and whether or not there is choice in the matter for raiding really depends on what class/build you are. Some are cookie cutter all the way and some have a lot of choice.
Then there are a bunch of PvP talents where I think there is a lot of good options for players to make a few choices.
BfA was great to play through the story once on each side, but that's about it.
I played FF14 not too long after ARR released, but it was still rough at that time, and haven't really been back since. If the story is interesting to play through I'll guarantee I'll be back in there to experience it all at least once. I like the job system also.
Currently enjoying my slow slog through ESO on my Nord Templar right now, looting everything not tied down, now that I have a bottomless crafting bag....ha
Comments
FFXIV (for me) is more of a Role Playing Game, with more emphasis to the story elements and to the interaction with other players and the world. WoW on the other hand (and a lot of other mmorpgs) focus heavily on the mechanics part of the Massively Multiplayer Online part.
So your comment on build diversity (which some would argue that it's minimal even in WoW terms) does reinforce my point that WoW is focused more on the mechanical elements of the game. Chasing the next achievement. Playing the next minigame and so on. It's not that those elements don't exist in FFXIV. But they do take a back sit where the storytelling is involved, where the captivating element is the heart of the experience rather than the skinner box endorphin gratification.
But the story is where FFXIV does stand apart somewhat in my opinion. In typical Final Fantasy fashion, they try to get really epic. But this also causes the game to feel a lot more linear and on rails. One of my main complaints when I played the game was the tedious amount of fetch quests and running back and forth. It was absurd back then. I don't know if they've changed that.
Either way, you're right that FFXIV focuses more on story and cut-scenes. There are REALLY long cut-scenes in FFXIV. But lets not pretend that FFXIV isn't just a skinner box with cut-scenes. It is. And so is WoW except with less cutscenes.
WoW vs EQ
>Forgiving - punishing
>questing - grinding
>guided tour - exploration
>instances - shared dungeons and raids (somebody else did the raid you wanted this week? Too bad)
>ability bloat - very restrictive ability choices at any given time (you get what, 8 memorized spells?)
>fast gameplay (by 2004 standards) - very slow gameplay
>short downtime - very long downtime
They share little in common beyond being fantasy MMOs with raiding end game.
BDO has a story. It's not a very good one, and has been retconned repeatedly to the point that the launch story has little to do with the modern story, but it's long and quite detailed. In addition to the main story, it also has thousands of quests that flesh out the lore of individual areas.
You named two very general items and call it a "carbon copy with a new skin". Contradiction much? An analogy to your absurd point would be a Hyundai Sonata is a carbon copy of a Toyota Corolla because the way they propel themselves (tires and an engine) is exactly the same. What specifically is a "gameplay loop" and "content cycle" to you. And how does any progression-style MMO differ in these two categories?
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The azerite stuff adds another layer and whether or not there is choice in the matter for raiding really depends on what class/build you are. Some are cookie cutter all the way and some have a lot of choice.
Then there are a bunch of PvP talents where I think there is a lot of good options for players to make a few choices.
I played FF14 not too long after ARR released, but it was still rough at that time, and haven't really been back since. If the story is interesting to play through I'll guarantee I'll be back in there to experience it all at least once. I like the job system also.
Currently enjoying my slow slog through ESO on my Nord Templar right now, looting everything not tied down, now that I have a bottomless crafting bag....ha
Gut Out!
What, me worry?