I keep seeing some talking about honeymoon phase or whatever, I think they miss the main thing this is not just a games classic this is what made mmorpg genre popular and everyone in game I've talk to have long term plans not play just to try/nostalgia. By the way to me all it matters is having fun and classic is more fun I ever had and still having since last decade.
The Honeymoon phase will be over, when the majority start reaching level60 and start experiencing what the endgame truly was like back in the day.
4-6 hour long dungeon runs. Abysmal drop rates. Fighting over loot. More fighting over loot. Even more fighting over loot. Guilds disbanding due to drama fighting over loot. More guild drama. Even more guild drama. Etc.
All in all. Endgame in Vanilla WoW was extremely toxic! Or have people already forgotten about the countless news articles, endless comedy jokes on TV, Southpark Episode. Etc.
There was a good reason why Blizzard abandoned 40man raiding and started splitting up dungeons in different wings and made the run times shorter. Starting with TBC.
I for one, will never ever do Vanilla Endgame ever again! Just the thought of running UBRS 60+ times for that stupid hunter chest piece I never got.
60+ full evenings wasted for nothing really. It was the worst MMO experience in my life.
You didn't play vanilla... you played retail. I say this because all you talk about is loot, loot, loot, and time, time, time. The vanilla I played was all about being with friends and having fun. Raiding was just an aside, not a destination. Loot was just a bonus, not a goal. And yes I raided everything including Naxx by the time was all said and done.
I didn't play to be the most decked out, bestest of the best, I played to have fun. I literally played 24/7 at times just because I lost track of all time. Yes raiding I did, but it was never a chore nor about gear... it was about fun. Why in the hell would I stay up 24/7 if I wasn't having fun? Why would I play with people who made playing the game a drama?
You played an entirely different version of vanilla... certainly not one worth playing again because it exists now on retail. The version I played can't be recreated because the times and the people have long since changed. I have no interest in the gear or the raids because why would I? I've done them all before and I didn't care about it then and I don't care about it now. If it's not the people you are playing with that draw you to play, then it's not worth playing.
Vanilla never needed raids or gear... all it needed was people who wanted to have fun. It was the social experiment of a lifetime. One that likely will never exist again, but it's still like a reunion for many who have returned to see their old buddies again... not the world or its raids.
I think this review is fair. I can't speak for anyone else, but I played WoW up until shortly after Legion came out, and this is the most I've been excited about the game since 2010.
It's great having an MMO where:
- Progression feels like it matters, and milestones feel like a genuine achievement.
- Good gear drops / rewards can last for 10+ levels.
- Every instance run is different due to the players and classes involved.
- I can chose what I want to do when I login instead of having a list of 'daily' chores.
- It feels like I am playing my class at level 20 instead of only after hitting level cap.
- The world presents enough danger and inconvenience that people actually help and talk to each other.
- The world is actually a WORLD and not just a linear series of zones.
I laughed at this one, this is most mmo's. Dont be naive. I get it your having fun, but this is ESO, GW2, FF. 10+ levels for a good item drop, lol.
You know, we get the same arguments in every thread about every game. No matter how many times we all agree, not everyone enjoys the same games, we still argue like we just don't care. Seems people have the mentality that, either games get developed my way or I'm going to trash on it all day. Sadly, this game was launched 15 years ago and it seems millions, yes you heard me, millions of WoW veterans came back to play this. No one is expected to enjoy Classic and THIS is exactly why people stopped playing WoW in the first place, because those of us who enjoy Classic, can't stand Retail. See how that works? Now stop crying about Classic stealing Retail's thunder, oh wait, aside from the badass BFA trailer, there was no thunder. Anyhow, I'm enjoying my time back in Classic and I couldn't thank Blizzard more for allowing those of us who asked for it, to bring it to life.
I am pretty sure the WoW classic fans threw dirt first. For years all we heard is "WoW is dying, bring back old WoW" Then when they do and people talk about how classic is not as good/perfect as people proclaim it is, they get butthurt. There is nothing in classic WoW that is unqiue or even done better IMO then whats out there today.
You say millions came back, no, no they didnt. Thats foolish, like i mean come on man. Even if it were millions, which it was NOT, look how quick it thinned out. Faster turnover rate then most f2p games right now. Claims like that are another reason why people post against it. If the classic fans werent talkin smack all day about others preffered games, about how easy and freemode they are, then classic threads wouldnt be bombarded with negative posts.
I see most people are still going with the binary love all of it or hate all of it options. I've been playing it casually for a couple of weeks and I'm enjoying parts of it and am annoyed by the parts of it I consider just bad game design that do not contribute in any meaningful way to those parts of Classic I enjoy. Sorry for my heresy but competitive mob tagging and competitive loot drops with the need/greed system both suck donkey balls. Cooperative mob XP and instanced loot per player are two of the best things ever to have been improved in MMOs.
But the key part here is that I'm still playing it some because the positives still outweigh the negatives for me so far.
But then I've also been playing WOW retail for the first time in more than 5 years and have a whole different set of annoyances and enjoyments there. Maybe it's the 5 year gap in playing retail but I'm having fun there too leveling a couple of new characters to get the feel for it again.
Keep on trucking
Put on a fresh pair of depend and get your safe space ready cause if the need/greed system at lower levels bothers you then what happens at 60 in dungeons and raids will 100% make you rage quit the game.
"Cooperative mob XP and instanced loot per player are two of the best things ever to have been improved in MMOs." Some people would say that those two things contributed to the start of the downfall of mmo's. There is no motivation to do anything well cause you can be the weakest link in the group but if the game rng decides you should get something you get it for completely sucking over the person who worked their butt off. Having the game determine who gets what without any input from the player is like virtual socialism. Let the players decide what happens and if someone is a jerk then it's on them but taking control/freedom away from players is what started us down this shitty road in the first place. I admit though that when two features you mentioned were first introduced I thought they were great ideas cause it felt like "security" which reminds of that saying...
"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither" Benjamin Franklin
I assume you only play full on FFA PvP games then - anything else being what you describe as "virtual socialism".
That being so I would suggest that there are games that will deliver for you and that WoW isn't, and has never been, one of them. And if it you are not practising what you claim to want.
I laughed at this one, this is most mmo's. Dont be naive. I get it your having fun, but this is ESO, GW2, FF. 10+ levels for a good item drop, lol.
Except the sad part is it really doesn't ... take the latest FFXIV expansion for example:
- Nothing matters as everything short of savage is braindead easy
- Levelling gear lasts maybe 2 levels; your first 'end-game' gear lasts maybe 2 hours before you buy an upgrade; and even savage raid gear will be replaced by 'greens' in few months with a new tier.
- Every instance run is exactly the same; even the instance doesn't matter as they are all just clones of the same linear template.
- All you ever do (after maybe a week of levelling) is daily / weekly chores for time gated tokens.
- Most classes short of level cap feel incomplete or flat out broken (which can be a major pain in a game with de-level sync)
- The 'world' is nothing but a linear series of zones to level through before largely being forgotten (except maybe to do hunts or grind FATEs)
- And don't even get me started on the utterly pointless and unrewarding sides quests... if there was an option to turn off quest markers I would us it (if only to have a clean map).
Which is not to say FFXIV is necessarily a bad game, it does several things quite well, and has a great story, it just feels more like a single player game with a grind tacked on than actual MMO.
And yes I will eventually get sick of classic when I run out of content, but it beats the hell out of the daily grind in modern 'MMOs'.
I think after spending 800+ hours binge playing ESO during 6-7 months in 2018 and owning the game since 2015 and spending 100+ hours in that version before Tamriel Unlimited, I must say that ESO is one of the most shallow, dumbed-down MMOs catering at casuals I've ever had the misfortune of buying and playing.<snip>
Same point I have made to others who make this type of comment - about any game.
I decide whether a game is "bad" very, very quickly. If it is I don't play it.
If "you" - and not just you - spent a huge amount of time in a game then it has to be doing something right. In your case 800+ and 100+ hours right. That is a serious amount of play time.
And when I decide a game, for me, is worth playing I do so knowing that I will get bored. Knowing that games are not perfect. They are like TV shows; over time they get stale. Single player, multi-player - whatever.
At that point however I don't go and tell people that the game is bad since - well I would have to question my own judgement.
Games are not perfect. Companies want to make money. Companies may keep things the same and not make changes - maybe because people are spending 1,000 hours in their game? - or they may make many changes because people leave.
We know - now - that many 100M+ people left WoW over the first decade. And clearly Blizzard went the way of "change" to try and attract new players / bring back old players / retain current players. Were they attracted by the changes? Did they leave because of the changes? We will never know.
For Blizzard though adding "change" worked for them for a long time since 100M+ people is a big number (even if a chunk of them only ever had an internet cafe subscription.)
For me this is the kind of game I like to play. I dont like the modern MMORPGS because they take a way the need for social interactions. They also offer fast pace game play which I dont like to have. This to me is the type of game I will be playing for a long time.
I laughed at this one, this is most mmo's. Dont be naive. I get it your having fun, but this is ESO, GW2, FF. 10+ levels for a good item drop, lol.
Except the sad part is it really doesn't ... take the latest FFXIV expansion for example:
- Nothing matters as everything short of savage is braindead easy
- Levelling gear lasts maybe 2 levels (which is basically a few hours); Your first 'end-game' gear lasts maybe 2 hours before you buy an upgrade; and even savage raid gear will be replaced in a few months with a new tier.
- Every instance run is exactly the same; even the instance doesn't matter as they are all just clones of the of the same linear template.
- All you ever do (after maybe a week of levelling) is daily / weekly chores for time gated tokens.
- Most classes short of level cap feel incomplete or flat out broken (which is major pain in a game with de-level sync)
- The 'world' is nothing but a linear series of zones to level through before largely forgetting about it (except maybe to do hunts or grind FATEs)
- And don't even get me started on the utterly pointless and unrewarding sides quests... if there was an option to turn off quest markers I would us it (if only to have a clean map).
Which is not to say FFXIV is necessarily a bad game, it does several things quite well, and has a great story, it just feels more like a single player game with a grind tacked on than actual MMO.
And yes I will eventually get sick of classic when I run out of content, but it beats the hell out of the daily grind in modern 'MMOs'.
Daily grind? Thats MMOs in general. How are WoW instances so unique? I dont follow this logic. Pointless unrewarding side quests???? WoW is full of them. Once you outlevel a zone in WoW how often do you really return, outside the major city ones and end game zones, you dont, so even tho its open world, the handfull of populated areas make it linear. You say classes feel incomplete, yet in WoW its practically the same, you get a few spells/attacks to use for the first 30 levels before you start unlocking the rest along with dozens of useless unneeded spells, so again, this makes no sense. If your questing for 2 hours straight in WoW, and gaining levels in those hours, your replacing gear.
Im glad your enjoying, but these comparisons dont hold any weight, as WoW can easily be picked apart for the same flaws. Theres nothing "great" about classic WoW that isnt being done by other games.
For me this is the kind of game I like to play. I dont like the modern MMORPGS because they take a way the need for social interactions. They also offer fast pace game play which I dont like to have. This to me is the type of game I will be playing for a long time.
One of the "attractions" of the early mmos was the ability to interact. Need - there was an element of that in WoW but much less so that e.g. EQ1 (You could solo in both so it was just a question of degree.)
A "significant development" was the growth of "communication protocols" - a modern incarnation of which is Discord.
Members of such a group, a percentage usually, will move to a new game taking all their established social links with them. Drift back to other games maybe until the next big launch.
The point being that - today - the actual game is a bolt-on. The core social interaction happens regardless of the game being played; fast or slow; new or old.
Daily grind? Thats MMOs in general. How are WoW instances so unique? I dont follow this logic. Pointless unrewarding side quests???? WoW is full of them. Once you outlevel a zone in WoW how often do you really return, outside the major city ones and end game zones, you dont, so even tho its open world, the handfull of populated areas make it linear. You say classes feel incomplete, yet in WoW its practically the same, you get a few spells/attacks to use for the first 30 levels before you start unlocking the rest along with dozens of useless unneeded spells, so again, this makes no sense. If your questing for 2 hours straight in WoW, and gaining levels in those hours, your replacing gear.
Im glad your enjoying, but these comparisons dont hold any weight, as WoW can easily be picked apart for the same flaws. Theres nothing "great" about classic WoW that isnt being done by other games.
Either you never played Vanilla (and you obviously haven't played Classic), or you have a bad memory, so allow me to correct you on a few things...
Vanilla never had a ‘dailies’, those came in with TBC, and short of raids there was no time gating, so what you did was up to you.
Vanilla / Classic has very unique instance layouts; from the short and sweeting 'intro' instance of Rage Fire Chasm, to the maze-like Wailing Caverns, to the more linear Shadow Fang Keep, to the multiple wings of Scarlet Monastery, etc.
Instances also feature different mob types, and mobs with different abilities: Wailing Caverns is mostly beasts, some of which do poison; Shadow Fang Keep is mostly humanoid with some undead, some of which do curses; Scarlet Monastery is mostly humanoid. but one wing is undead; and in Vanilla / Classic mob types and their abilities matter as some classes are better at dealing with certain types than others… which means party composition matters and changes how a run will go (though less so in Classic than Vanilla as Classic is using the pre-expansion 'nerf' patch).
Any quest in Vanilla / Classic will at least net you decent XP (5-10% of a level in early levels), to say nothing of XP from mobs, and most give some sort of item (to say nothing of drops from mobs) which at the very least is worth money, and money matters in Vanilla / Classic as new skills are expensive, as are mounts at 40 and 60, to say nothing of on-going costs for most classes.
Blue (rare) drops in level 20 dungeons are better than most level 30 greens, so yes, good (e.g. blue) gear does last 10+ levels because gear progression in Vanilla / Classic is slow, and stats matter. Also, not everything is a direct upgrade, some upgrades are a trade-off... e.g. more damage but less stats, so which do you value more?
In Classic most classes have all their basic abilities by level 20, levels 20-30 add a few more, and there aren't many beyond that. This means that by level 20 you are effectively playing your class, with later abilities simply adding to it rather than completely changing the gameplay.
And yes, you may not return to all the zones you levelled through, but that depends how you play... one thing is for certain though, you aren't just sitting in cities clicking menu buttons (unless you know a very generous Warlock).
So please, you may want to boil 'WoW' down to some repetitive
end-game grind, but that is honestly the worst part of it, and MMOs in the past 15 years have been poorer for focusing so heavily on it.
Daily grind? Thats MMOs in general. How are WoW instances so unique? I dont follow this logic. Pointless unrewarding side quests???? WoW is full of them. Once you outlevel a zone in WoW how often do you really return, outside the major city ones and end game zones, you dont, so even tho its open world, the handfull of populated areas make it linear. You say classes feel incomplete, yet in WoW its practically the same, you get a few spells/attacks to use for the first 30 levels before you start unlocking the rest along with dozens of useless unneeded spells, so again, this makes no sense. If your questing for 2 hours straight in WoW, and gaining levels in those hours, your replacing gear.
Im glad your enjoying, but these comparisons dont hold any weight, as WoW can easily be picked apart for the same flaws. Theres nothing "great" about classic WoW that isnt being done by other games.
Either you never played Vanilla (and you obviously haven't played Classic), or you have a bad memory, so allow me to correct you on a few things...
Vanilla never had a ‘dailies’, those came in with TBC, and short of raids there was no time gating, so what you did was up to you.
Vanilla / Classic has very unique instance layouts; from the short and sweeting 'intro' instance of Rage Fire Chasm, to the maze-like Wailing Caverns, to the more linear Shadow Fang Keep, to the multiple wings of Scarlet Monastery, etc.
Instances also feature different mob types, and mobs with different abilities: Wailing Caverns is mostly beasts, some of which do poison; Shadow Fang Keep is mostly humanoid with some undead, some of which do curses; Scarlet Monastery is mostly humanoid. but one wing is undead; and in Vanilla / Classic mob types and their abilities matter as some classes are better at dealing with certain types than others… which means party composition matters and changes how a run will go (though less so in Classic than Vanilla as Classic is using the pre-expansion 'nerf' patch).
Any quest in Vanilla / Classic will at least net you decent XP (5-10% of a level in early levels), to say nothing of XP from mobs, and most give some sort of item (to say nothing of drops from mobs) which at the very least is worth money, and money matters in Vanilla / Classic as new skills are expensive, as are mounts at 40 and 60, to say nothing of on-going costs for most classes.
Blue (rare) drops in level 20 dungeons are better than most level 30 greens, so yes, good (e.g. blue) gear does last 10+ levels because gear progression in Vanilla / Classic is slow, and stats matter. Also, not everything is a direct upgrade, some upgrades are a trade-off... e.g. more damage but less stats, so which do you value more?
In Classic most classes have all their basic abilities by level 20, levels 20-30 add a few more, and there aren't many beyond that. This means that by level 20 you are effectively playing your class, with later abilities simply adding to it rather than completely changing the gameplay.
And yes, you may not return to all the zones you levelled through, but that depends how you play... one thing is for certain though, you aren't just sitting in cities clicking menu buttons (unless you know a very generous Warlock).
So please, you may want to boil 'WoW' down to some repetitive
end-game grind, but that is honestly the worst part of it, and MMOs in the past 15 years have been poorer for focusing so heavily on it.
Im sorry, but your wrong. Your gonna come back and say your not. Wanna know why your wrong? Cause each of your points are easily stripped down. Unique instance layouts, rofl, reaching for straws. ESO wants to have a word with you.
I mean your opening about talking about dailies, I never mentioned daily quests, at any point I said daily grind, rep grind,xp grind,material grind, gold grind. So did you even read what I said?
Diffrent mobs and abilities, lol, again most mmo's when it comes to dungeons. Unique maps, mob attacks. And classes by level 20, come on, most mmo's you play the class the same as u do at level 20 towards max cause you have the basic attack line. Some games replace your early spells with better ones, that offer more but it rarely actually changes the class gameplay IE you dont play a mage to level 20 in another game then all of a sudden hes rocking full melee attacks, which means you still attack from ranged. That honestly is the dumbest "pro" to a game. All games classes feel like there classes after several levels, so your outta touch?
Honestly imma just stop there, your arguements are so weak. I tried telling you with my last post, and you came back with the exact same points with little changes to words. You never played vanilla or classic, nice fall back. Sorry my view of what you say is available in alot of other mmos and some even do it better. Again, im glad you enjoy this game, but stop trying to preach it as something its not. Its a minority game, and always will be. Why is that hard to accept?
"Overall World of Warcraft Classic is a solid effort and a ton of fun. Like I mentioned previously, I never wanted to bring back Vanilla and yes, there are some things which have been annoying me. Like having to face my target when I Moonfire or clicking on a quest item out in the world, but someone else clicks first and gets it. I’m not sure how long I will keep with Classic, but right now I am having fun and only logging onto retail for raid nights, which says a lot."
Don't worry. The tedium of the long travel times, low drop rates for quest items, never having enough gold to progress, ninja looters, broken gear and corps running will wear you down faster then you expect after your first nostalgia trip.
How on earth does this get a 9? Or should I read this as a 9 on the scale of 1-10 nostalgia?
Hard to believe people are actually still enjoying old Wow. It might have been great 15 years ago, but really people? It has not aged well at all. So many better MMO's out there now, even the Asian ones are MUCH better.
It feels like a mmorpg and takes effort compared to new games where you 1 shot everything.
WoW Classic is certainly more challenging than current day WoW.. but out of the other main MMOs popular in the west right now? ESO, GW2, FFXIV? You do not run around 1 shotting everything in any of them and have to be constantly on the move in ESO and GW2 whilst using skills all the time.
I mean, WoW Classic challenge comes down to this... Pull too many mobs, you're dead. Don't pull too many mobs, do your rotation and win.
Hmmm it's as if the design of the game was meant to be tactical with your pulls rather than to "Leeroy" into everything.
Im sorry, but your wrong. Your gonna come back and say your not. Wanna know why your wrong? Cause each of your points are easily stripped down. Unique instance layouts, rofl, reaching for straws. ESO wants to have a word with you.
I mean your opening about talking about dailies, I never mentioned daily quests, at any point I said daily grind, rep grind,xp grind,material grind, gold grind. So did you even read what I said?
Diffrent mobs and abilities, lol, again most mmo's when it comes to dungeons. Unique maps, mob attacks. And classes by level 20, come on, most mmo's you play the class the same as u do at level 20 towards max cause you have the basic attack line. Some games replace your early spells with better ones, that offer more but it rarely actually changes the class gameplay IE you dont play a mage to level 20 in another game then all of a sudden hes rocking full melee attacks, which means you still attack from ranged. That honestly is the dumbest "pro" to a game. All games classes feel like there classes after several levels, so your outta touch?
Honestly imma just stop there, your arguements are so weak. I tried telling you with my last post, and you came back with the exact same points with little changes to words. You never played vanilla or classic, nice fall back. Sorry my view of what you say is available in alot of other mmos and some even do it better. Again, im glad you enjoy this game, but stop trying to preach it as something its not. Its a minority game, and always will be. Why is that hard to accept?
Oh OK, so you're an expert on all MMOs now? And have extensive experience with Vanilla / Classic WoW? How about FFXIV? Because those are two games I was comparing. If ESO has those features as well, then great, good for it, too bad about the lootboxes.
And look, I know there is no point arguing
with you, you don't like WoW, and that's fine, what I do have a problem with is you pretending that you know what you are talking about; it is obvious that you do not.
NB. And if you are going to break any activity in a game down to a 'grind' then :faceplam:
Really enjoying WoW again , leveling a Hunter/Shaman and Druid .. Having a great time with all 3 ..
Its taking up most of my gaming time ....
I know ... its just Nostalgia we've been told ......................right ...?
lol
Thats good, but why are you enjoying it? Basic combat? Outdated graphics? Freedom of character builds against meta that under perform at every angle? Oh, but some will say ya, but its MY build, ok awesome, you came up with subpar choices, good on you for not being good? (not trying to be rude) Spending 20 mins travel from quest hub to quest hub? (speaking of which wasnt this forum plagued with posts about quest hub games being trash? but because this is classic its ok?) Everyone hated on the rails questing for the past several years till this was released? Oh, but theres no quest helper aids in game, wanna know a fact, that only got introduced because people made mods, and it was so widely used it was added to the actually game. Just like calendar events for guilds, used to be a add on. People dont want the help, but the stats show different.
Theres more to be touched on but i dont wanna make a wall of text, but i mean lets be real here, it is nostalgia for a major portion of the population. Theres 2 things people discuss the majority of the time, that is difficulty and community.
Those will not last, the community WILL thin out, and what happens in a month time when you get your quests in a level 28 in zone for kill elite creatures for a quest, and because the hype is gone theres no one around doing the same quest. Oh, ask your guild, but you cant expect everyone to endure the lengthy travel times to help everyone who needs it. Especially since flying has been removed and mounted ground speed has been set back to needing max level to go max speed. Thats why these types of quests were removed, they stop getting done after a few months, so they become wasted data. People just abandon or avoid them. People dont think elitism kicks in for dungeons when people are on there 5th toon going thru scarlet monastary? I mean, come on, Rag was killed. The mindset of people still remains the same.
As you get used to the "older" style of mechanics when it comes to combat (difficulty) which is only hard cause ur rocking greens/whites/greys, you will get used to the ins and outs of mass pulling eventually. Go into BFA weraing white gears, see how well you do and hard the game is then. Im not kidding, you have a sub, go get some white gear and head to bfa and tell us how it went. People cry retail WoW is easy, yet most lack mythic raid/challenge mode achievements.
Dont get me wrong, im glad you and many others are having fun, and im not trying to rain on peoples parades. This may not even be you, you might be a exception to these things i said, but for a huge part of its population, yes it is nostalgia.
You seem to forget you can't define what is fun to someone else, even when you seem not to like it.
Classic is a true RPG which had choice and options where BfA is more an action RPG which is not deep, narrow and focused. There are two different experiences on opposite ends of the spectrum, and where you land depends solely on what you like to do from a gaming perspective. I'm perfectly happy with Classic and dont intend to return to retail.
That guy who said "You think you do but you don't", does he still have a job at Blizzard?
Give it time. Every US server this morning (2 hours before downtime) was Low population, a farcry from a week ago.
And to the reviewer who installed an add-on: you are the 'problem'. Add-ons are what started getting added into the game as retai features. Damage Meter in groups ruined WoW community way before LFD/LFR.
Now, honestly, add anything you want, I don't care. But don't clamor about how much everyone wants to be returned to Vanilla when the evidence is clearly supporting that, no, nobody wants Vanilla. They want retail WoW with removed.
As for me, I bought into the hype and subbed. It's ok. It's a basic, kind of relaxing, MMO to play. But I also unsubbed right after I played ESO for a minute. Classic WoW is old, outdated, and kind of clunky compared to PvE appeal and environment of ESO. THAT said, I may sub back to Classic WoW, it is relaxing, after all. /shrug
See I'm the opposite. I've played ESO since beta back in 2014. It gets boring after awhile as you just steamroll all the overland content and I'm not a fan of the combat. Classic on the otherhand holds my attention longer and gives me a healthy challenge for my focused long term goals.
I don't know how long you have been playing classic but I've been playing since the servers went live on Bloodsail. Every single night including this one the world has been full, but more important than sheer number of players is the *interaction* between players. Players buffing people, helping you kill mobs even though they wont get ANY experience. Its a sense of community that doesn't exist in modern MMOs. Will it last? Who knows and honestly who cares. Right now I'm enjoying myself and thats what is critical right now.
I can't wrap my brain around this one. I played WoW since 2004 til 2017 off and on again. I don't want to play retail, and i sure don't want to play a game this dated, and aged. Yeah i had fun at launch, but why would i want to go back to a game that i remember in it's non-duplicitous state? None of the quality of life things I've come to expect with an MMO, a presentation that was considered sub-par even at it's launch year, seriously? I had my fun with it.. i want a new MMORPG, not rehashed monetized nostalgia.
If someone pulled this off the year that WoW was released, they would be introducing the "GameBoy classic" or "SimCity Classic" as those games released in 1989 15 years prior to WoW releasing.
What a crazy concept, in an age when innovation needs to keep up to produce a viable product people have become so intuned to rehashed/remastered products being resold with minor adjustments that the answer to the issue wasn't to re-release a game 1 year old with minor enhancement, it was to do the same thing, but with a game 15 years old.
For the first time in my long life as a gamer, i don't think i want to be a gamer any more as i feel more, and more like the ride is over, we had our fun, but now the industry is recycling upon itself, and i will never again feel that feeling of "Omg" that a next-gen new release once gave me. Pity.
I can't wrap my brain around this one. I played WoW since 2004 til 2017 off and on again. I don't want to play retail, and i sure don't want to play a game this dated, and aged. Yeah i had fun at launch, but why would i want to go back to a game that i remember in it's non-duplicitous state? None of the quality of life things I've come to expect with an MMO, a presentation that was considered sub-par even at it's launch year, seriously? I had my fun with it.. i want a new MMORPG, not rehashed monetized nostalgia.
If someone pulled this off the year that WoW was released, they would be introducing the "GameBoy classic" or "SimCity Classic" as those games released in 1989 15 years prior to WoW releasing.
What a crazy concept, in an age when innovation needs to keep up to produce a viable product people have become so intuned to rehashed/remastered products being resold with minor adjustments that the answer to the issue wasn't to re-release a game 1 year old with minor enhancement, it was to do the same thing, but with a game 15 years old.
For the first time in my long life as a gamer, i don't think i want to be a gamer any more as i feel more, and more like the ride is over, we had our fun, but now the industry is recycling upon itself, and i will never again feel that feeling of "Omg" that a next-gen new release once gave me. Pity.
That guy who said "You think you do but you don't", does he still have a job at Blizzard?
I think eventually he'll still be proven correct after the honeymoon is over.
Just because a ton of people quit does not mean that people didn't want it. You can enjoy a game for a while then quit, still having enjoyed the game. Just because you only play something for a month or two does not mean you didn't want it in the first place.
I can't wrap my brain around this one. I played WoW since 2004 til 2017 off and on again. I don't want to play retail, and i sure don't want to play a game this dated, and aged. Yeah i had fun at launch, but why would i want to go back to a game that i remember in it's non-duplicitous state? None of the quality of life things I've come to expect with an MMO, a presentation that was considered sub-par even at it's launch year, seriously? I had my fun with it.. i want a new MMORPG, not rehashed monetized nostalgia.
If someone pulled this off the year that WoW was released, they would be introducing the "GameBoy classic" or "SimCity Classic" as those games released in 1989 15 years prior to WoW releasing.
What a crazy concept, in an age when innovation needs to keep up to produce a viable product people have become so intuned to rehashed/remastered products being resold with minor adjustments that the answer to the issue wasn't to re-release a game 1 year old with minor enhancement, it was to do the same thing, but with a game 15 years old.
For the first time in my long life as a gamer, i don't think i want to be a gamer any more as i feel more, and more like the ride is over, we had our fun, but now the industry is recycling upon itself, and i will never again feel that feeling of "Omg" that a next-gen new release once gave me. Pity.
Gaming is a "new" activity. And one that is still forming as well as changing with current technology.
Most of my pastimes involve content that was created before you great grandfather was born. Now that there is more "history" to video games you are seeing what was always going to happen, people enjoying things that "came before."
Just like you'd sit down to watch a play by Molière Just like you'd listen to a String Quartet by Schubert Or read a book by Nabokov
Won't be long before people load up video games they consider actual classics because they were made 100 years before.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
9 out 10 for a running simulator.... well someone liked playing this version of thegame again for sure. I see classic differently. To me the quest hubs in the game are of a horrible design. instead of using the local area around the quest hub the quests sends you to all over the place, you end up spending 15 minutes maybe to get to the quest area. You complete said quest, run back and then get a follow up quest at the same area so off you go again for another 15 minutes...The graveyard. Many areas if you happen to die at the edge of the zone, then you can end up with a 10 minute corpserun. If your unlucky and die again, you end up with another corpserun and you will have wasted 20 minutes of your life. The game does not hold up sadly. There was a reason cata broke and redid the world. and it was to fix these issues. People are saying classic is a hard game. no its not hard, just snail slow.
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I didn't play to be the most decked out, bestest of the best, I played to have fun. I literally played 24/7 at times just because I lost track of all time. Yes raiding I did, but it was never a chore nor about gear... it was about fun. Why in the hell would I stay up 24/7 if I wasn't having fun? Why would I play with people who made playing the game a drama?
You played an entirely different version of vanilla... certainly not one worth playing again because it exists now on retail. The version I played can't be recreated because the times and the people have long since changed. I have no interest in the gear or the raids because why would I? I've done them all before and I didn't care about it then and I don't care about it now. If it's not the people you are playing with that draw you to play, then it's not worth playing.
Vanilla never needed raids or gear... all it needed was people who wanted to have fun. It was the social experiment of a lifetime. One that likely will never exist again, but it's still like a reunion for many who have returned to see their old buddies again... not the world or its raids.
You say millions came back, no, no they didnt. Thats foolish, like i mean come on man. Even if it were millions, which it was NOT, look how quick it thinned out. Faster turnover rate then most f2p games right now. Claims like that are another reason why people post against it. If the classic fans werent talkin smack all day about others preffered games, about how easy and freemode they are, then classic threads wouldnt be bombarded with negative posts.
That being so I would suggest that there are games that will deliver for you and that WoW isn't, and has never been, one of them. And if it you are not practising what you claim to want.
Except the sad part is it really doesn't ... take the latest FFXIV expansion for example:
- Nothing matters as everything short of savage is braindead easy
- Levelling gear lasts maybe 2 levels; your first 'end-game' gear lasts maybe 2 hours before you buy an upgrade; and even savage raid gear will be replaced by 'greens' in few months with a new tier.
- Every instance run is exactly the same; even the instance doesn't matter as they are all just clones of the same linear template.
- All you ever do (after maybe a week of levelling) is daily / weekly chores for time gated tokens.
- Most classes short of level cap feel incomplete or flat out broken (which can be a major pain in a game with de-level sync)
- The 'world' is nothing but a linear series of zones to level through before largely being forgotten (except maybe to do hunts or grind FATEs)
- And don't even get me started on the utterly pointless and unrewarding sides quests... if there was an option to turn off quest markers I would us it (if only to have a clean map).
Which is not to say FFXIV is necessarily a bad game, it does several things quite well, and has a great story, it just feels more like a single player game with a grind tacked on than actual MMO.
And yes I will eventually get sick of classic when I run out of content, but it beats the hell out of the daily grind in modern 'MMOs'.
Same point I have made to others who make this type of comment - about any game.
I decide whether a game is "bad" very, very quickly. If it is I don't play it.
If "you" - and not just you - spent a huge amount of time in a game then it has to be doing something right. In your case 800+ and 100+ hours right. That is a serious amount of play time.
And when I decide a game, for me, is worth playing I do so knowing that I will get bored. Knowing that games are not perfect. They are like TV shows; over time they get stale. Single player, multi-player - whatever.
At that point however I don't go and tell people that the game is bad since - well I would have to question my own judgement.
Games are not perfect. Companies want to make money. Companies may keep things the same and not make changes - maybe because people are spending 1,000 hours in their game? - or they may make many changes because people leave.
We know - now - that many 100M+ people left WoW over the first decade. And clearly Blizzard went the way of "change" to try and attract new players / bring back old players / retain current players. Were they attracted by the changes? Did they leave because of the changes? We will never know.
For Blizzard though adding "change" worked for them for a long time since 100M+ people is a big number (even if a chunk of them only ever had an internet cafe subscription.)
Im glad your enjoying, but these comparisons dont hold any weight, as WoW can easily be picked apart for the same flaws. Theres nothing "great" about classic WoW that isnt being done by other games.
A "significant development" was the growth of "communication protocols" - a modern incarnation of which is Discord.
Members of such a group, a percentage usually, will move to a new game taking all their established social links with them. Drift back to other games maybe until the next big launch.
The point being that - today - the actual game is a bolt-on. The core social interaction happens regardless of the game being played; fast or slow; new or old.
Vanilla never had a ‘dailies’, those came in with TBC, and short of raids there was no time gating, so what you did was up to you.
Vanilla / Classic has very unique instance layouts; from the short and sweeting 'intro' instance of Rage Fire Chasm, to the maze-like Wailing Caverns, to the more linear Shadow Fang Keep, to the multiple wings of Scarlet Monastery, etc.
Instances also feature different mob types, and mobs with different abilities: Wailing Caverns is mostly beasts, some of which do poison; Shadow Fang Keep is mostly humanoid with some undead, some of which do curses; Scarlet Monastery is mostly humanoid. but one wing is undead; and in Vanilla / Classic mob types and their abilities matter as some classes are better at dealing with certain types than others… which means party composition matters and changes how a run will go (though less so in Classic than Vanilla as Classic is using the pre-expansion 'nerf' patch).
Any quest in Vanilla / Classic will at least net you decent XP (5-10% of a level in early levels), to say nothing of XP from mobs, and most give some sort of item (to say nothing of drops from mobs) which at the very least is worth money, and money matters in Vanilla / Classic as new skills are expensive, as are mounts at 40 and 60, to say nothing of on-going costs for most classes.
Blue (rare) drops in level 20 dungeons are better than most level 30 greens, so yes, good (e.g. blue) gear does last 10+ levels because gear progression in Vanilla / Classic is slow, and stats matter. Also, not everything is a direct upgrade, some upgrades are a trade-off... e.g. more damage but less stats, so which do you value more?
In Classic most classes have all their basic abilities by level 20, levels 20-30 add a few more, and there aren't many beyond that. This means that by level 20 you are effectively playing your class, with later abilities simply adding to it rather than completely changing the gameplay.
I mean your opening about talking about dailies, I never mentioned daily quests, at any point I said daily grind, rep grind,xp grind,material grind, gold grind. So did you even read what I said?
Diffrent mobs and abilities, lol, again most mmo's when it comes to dungeons. Unique maps, mob attacks. And classes by level 20, come on, most mmo's you play the class the same as u do at level 20 towards max cause you have the basic attack line. Some games replace your early spells with better ones, that offer more but it rarely actually changes the class gameplay IE you dont play a mage to level 20 in another game then all of a sudden hes rocking full melee attacks, which means you still attack from ranged. That honestly is the dumbest "pro" to a game. All games classes feel like there classes after several levels, so your outta touch?
Honestly imma just stop there, your arguements are so weak. I tried telling you with my last post, and you came back with the exact same points with little changes to words. You never played vanilla or classic, nice fall back. Sorry my view of what you say is available in alot of other mmos and some even do it better. Again, im glad you enjoy this game, but stop trying to preach it as something its not. Its a minority game, and always will be. Why is that hard to accept?
Don't worry. The tedium of the long travel times, low drop rates for quest items, never having enough gold to progress, ninja looters, broken gear and corps running will wear you down faster then you expect after your first nostalgia trip.
How on earth does this get a 9? Or should I read this as a 9 on the scale of 1-10 nostalgia?
Hmmm it's as if the design of the game was meant to be tactical with your pulls rather than to "Leeroy" into everything.
Classic is a true RPG which had choice and options where BfA is more an action RPG which is not deep, narrow and focused. There are two different experiences on opposite ends of the spectrum, and where you land depends solely on what you like to do from a gaming perspective. I'm perfectly happy with Classic and dont intend to return to retail.
I don't know how long you have been playing classic but I've been playing since the servers went live on Bloodsail. Every single night including this one the world has been full, but more important than sheer number of players is the *interaction* between players. Players buffing people, helping you kill mobs even though they wont get ANY experience. Its a sense of community that doesn't exist in modern MMOs. Will it last? Who knows and honestly who cares. Right now I'm enjoying myself and thats what is critical right now.
If someone pulled this off the year that WoW was released, they would be introducing the "GameBoy classic" or "SimCity Classic" as those games released in 1989 15 years prior to WoW releasing.
What a crazy concept, in an age when innovation needs to keep up to produce a viable product people have become so intuned to rehashed/remastered products being resold with minor adjustments that the answer to the issue wasn't to re-release a game 1 year old with minor enhancement, it was to do the same thing, but with a game 15 years old.
For the first time in my long life as a gamer, i don't think i want to be a gamer any more as i feel more, and more like the ride is over, we had our fun, but now the industry is recycling upon itself, and i will never again feel that feeling of "Omg" that a next-gen new release once gave me. Pity.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/11/20861066/world-of-warcraft-wow-classic-twitch-fortnite-ninja-streamers-change
Most of my pastimes involve content that was created before you great grandfather was born. Now that there is more "history" to video games you are seeing what was always going to happen, people enjoying things that "came before."
Just like you'd sit down to watch a play by Molière
Just like you'd listen to a String Quartet by Schubert
Or read a book by Nabokov
Won't be long before people load up video games they consider actual classics because they were made 100 years before.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo