The only controversy

delete5230

I have no problem with crowed funding BUT:

BUT Visionary Realms took PEOPLES MONEY WAY TOO SOON ! 

People are saying this game is taking too long. No it's about standard, problem is they began collecting money at the "simple thought of making a game". They created a bloated out news letter and a cartoon map made on a bar napkin and gave the appearance the game is half done.

Prof none... Why no prof ?... Masterful appearance !!!!


I was in voice discord with a great bunch of people playing Legends of Aria about a year ago.  They were all fans and backers of Pantheon.  They had nothing to follow other than a news letter..... They were convinced the game was a few months away from being released... This was last year !

This is the power of appearance,  
It can trick the hopeful unsuspecting good people.... I sometimes hate being a realist. I see everything as how they are.

I often ask what is Pantheon ?..... Honestly I don't think anyone knows.

Mendel

I think you're probably right about this, Delete.  Pantheon, and games in general, take money from Customers far too early.  They do this by giving those Customers a false sense of being an Investor.  Customers don't have nearly the same degree of rights as Investors, and different laws cover the rights of each group.  This can be an open door to our wallets for some unscrupulous vendors.  Customers seem to be willing to participate in this, often crediting a Developer with an altruistic demeanor when only greed is in operation.  It's a lot more depressing than anything the critics have posted.

Gutlard

Who is Pantheon? When is Pantheon? How is Pantheon?

Gut Out!

delete5230

The map,
Do you really think the world would look and play like this ?

This map was set to instill hope and to collect money when the game was "barely a basic idea".  Theirs a good chance the zone names will be real..... But the world design will look nothing like this.

From the first day this map was off and didn't make sense, too many unneeded peninsulas, too many narrow passageways and choke points surrounded by water.  It's an odd map to create a video game world around. 

It's an extremely silly design.  No thought involved with a basic idea of building a game.  Doable only because of zoning instances, Impossible if it were open world.  Still, bad design none the less. 

http://www.pantheonmmo.com/images/atlas-hi-res.jpg

cheyane

Compare it to Everquest. I always compare everything to Everquest when it is Pantheon because to me it is Everquest with better graphics.



They might add other continents though still too early to make any definitive judgements. See all those tantalizing land peeping at the bottom could be some added continents like they added Kunark and Velious in Everquest.

delete5230

Creating a map without a complete vision of a zone is a bad idea.

A decision to make a map for a pre-preemptive game will have it's consequences making developers design around it or abandon it all together.  Such as a water fall in The Silent Plains, a world tree in Faerthale or a narrow zone of Tasrin's Gaze.

All to give a false impression THE GAME WAS BUILT !

TEKK3N

Now is the map.
Can you nitpick some more?

Running out of things to complain?
We are slowly descending into the “color of VR toilet tiles” domain.

crankked

delete5230 said:

I sometimes hate being a realist. I see everything as how they are.

I often ask what is Pantheon ?..... Honestly I don't think anyone knows.

OMG I almost fell out of my chair laughing at this.....

Mendel said:

I think you're probably right about this, Delete.  Pantheon, and games in general, take money from Customers far too early.  They do this by giving those Customers a false sense of being an Investor.  Customers don't have nearly the same degree of rights as Investors, and different laws cover the rights of each group.  This can be an open door to our wallets for some unscrupulous vendors.  Customers seem to be willing to participate in this, often crediting a Developer with an altruistic demeanor when only greed is in operation.  It's a lot more depressing than anything the critics have posted.

They do it because they can and that is because people are too damn stupid to not continue doing it.  

delete5230

TEKK3N said:

Now is the map.
Can you nitpick some more?

Running out of things to complain?
We are slowly descending into the “color of VR toilet tiles” domain.

The map is the topic because it was made before the game was even a thought. Put on display to deceive the people thinking the game was started. 

Quizzical

When I saw the thread title, I figured that the controversy was about large numbers of consecutive periods.

delete5230

DMKano said:

In today's thread - OP discovers that Pantheon started as a crowdfunded project 6 years ago.

Six years too early 

Now would be a good time, that's if the game is even started.  Seems their in the basic testing phase...

Sovrath

delete5230 said:

TEKK3N said:

Now is the map.
Can you nitpick some more?

Running out of things to complain?
We are slowly descending into the “color of VR toilet tiles” domain.

The map is the topic because it was made before the game was even a thought. Put on display to deceive the people thinking the game was started. 

Realist? You seem very obsessive.

Additionally, did you put money into the project? I mean, you seem to be all up in arms for those who put money into the project. If you did then lesson for you, don't put money into anything crowdfunded, it doesn't really align with your temperament.

I know "I put $100" and really just waiting to see if it launches. Don't feel the need to make threads, over and over and over, for some perceived righteous indignation.

Scot

This is only a big issue beacuse when they started out they and all the other CF MMO's should have said "We are at the ideas stage and have no idea when we will launch". As far as I know SoL is the only one that did that.

If you are a few years from retirement, putting in to one of the KS MMOs may be for you. By the time you do retire it should have come out and you will have a ready made hobby. Just don't retire early.

Kyleran

Scot said:

This is only a big issue beacuse when they started out they and all the other CF MMO's should have said "We are at the ideas stage and have no idea when we will launch". As far as I know SoL is the only one that did that.

If you are a few years from retirement, putting in to one of the KS MMOs may be for you. By the time you do retire it should have come out and you will have a ready made hobby. Just don't retire early.

I don't recall the Pantheon devs ever stating a release date, or even hinting a release was imminent.

kertin

Guys, I have an idea, i'm actually buying a flat next year and most of you are fine to donate money to scammers á la Pantheon etc. devs, so why not send some to me, right? I'm not even scam, I'll legit buy a flat, should i create some donation website so you can support me? And the best thing is you don't need to wait 10 years after your donate your money to see final product, i can deliver instantly in like 3-6 months...btw boomers and boomer mods here are getting really mad on me, so I'm gonna get banned soon...I know i have to pay for saying truth about Pantheon, truth hurts

Mylan12

delete5230 said:

TEKK3N said:

Now is the map.
Can you nitpick some more?

Running out of things to complain?
We are slowly descending into the “color of VR toilet tiles” domain.

The map is the topic because it was made before the game was even a thought. Put on display to deceive the people thinking the game was started. 

Most MMORPGs start working on the lore which includes maps very early in game development. Figuring out where to place content would be very difficult without some kind of outline of the world. Of course I am sure it is subject to change but they have to have something to work with.

LackingMMO

Someone needs to take his create discussion button away.

Kyleran

LackingMMO said:

Someone needs to take his create discussion button away.

Or just put a limiter on it....

crankked

Kyleran said:

LackingMMO said:

Someone needs to take his create discussion button away.

Or just put a limiter on it....

I feel like the safest approach is removal.

Wizardry

Rhoklaw said:

So Pantheon is vaporware because they created a map of the world before making the game? You're right, crowd funded games should be banished and we should go back to the bureaucratic approach of game development which has resulted in nothing but F2P PvP games with P2W cash shops.

I think you are under the "assumption" that just because you crowd fund something,you have any say at all.Not only don't you have a say,you have no idea what the actual game will end up looking like because the early pitch is just a sales pitch to get your money.
Pantheon is vaporware until there is an actual game,before that point arises,it is just promises.

No where on this planet should we be calling promises as an actual game.There might be parts of a game but still not yet a game.Imagine if people crowd funded Fortnite,it is not even remotely the game it was intended to be.How about Ashes,out of nowhere he starts trying to babble on about some BR mode for testing,you cannot trust ANY of these devs,even the ones that are not crowd funding.

I don't get to much invested in these crowd funding projects because i know the end result but man i didn't know it was already 6 years...yikes.I do not think they have 6 years worth of work done yet,maybe 2 years tops.

Mylan12

Some definitions of the term "Vaporware" .

The definition per Oxford Dictionary is "software or hardware that has been advertised but is not yet available to buy, either because it is only a concept or because it is still being written or designed."  So guess all software is vaporware until its released.

Of course the Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines it as " a computer-related product that has been widely advertised but has not and may never become available. "

Wizardry said:

I think you are under the "assumption" that just because you crowd fund something,you have any say at all.Not only don't you have a say,you have no idea what the actual game will end up looking like because the early pitch is just a sales pitch to get your money.
Pantheon is vaporware until there is an actual game,before that point arises,it is just promises.

No where on this planet should we be calling promises as an actual game.There might be parts of a game but still not yet a game.Imagine if people crowd funded Fortnite,it is not even remotely the game it was intended to be.How about Ashes,out of nowhere he starts trying to babble on about some BR mode for testing,you cannot trust ANY of these devs,even the ones that are not crowd funding.

I don't get to much invested in these crowd funding projects because i know the end result but man i didn't know it was already 6 years...yikes.I do not think they have 6 years worth of work done yet,maybe 2 years tops.

I sort of agree with you on some of this stuff but 2 years of work by a team of a few hundred is a lot different than 2 years work by a team of 20 or so.  Its really should be how many hours of work have gone in the game.

delete5230

Rhoklaw said:

Wizardry said:

Rhoklaw said:

So Pantheon is vaporware because they created a map of the world before making the game? You're right, crowd funded games should be banished and we should go back to the bureaucratic approach of game development which has resulted in nothing but F2P PvP games with P2W cash shops.

I think you are under the "assumption" that just because you crowd fund something,you have any say at all.Not only don't you have a say,you have no idea what the actual game will end up looking like because the early pitch is just a sales pitch to get your money.
Pantheon is vaporware until there is an actual game,before that point arises,it is just promises.

No where on this planet should we be calling promises as an actual game.There might be parts of a game but still not yet a game.Imagine if people crowd funded Fortnite,it is not even remotely the game it was intended to be.How about Ashes,out of nowhere he starts trying to babble on about some BR mode for testing,you cannot trust ANY of these devs,even the ones that are not crowd funding.

I don't get to much invested in these crowd funding projects because i know the end result but man i didn't know it was already 6 years...yikes.I do not think they have 6 years worth of work done yet,maybe 2 years tops.

I'm not saying it's wrong to question something. I'm saying it's ridiculous for someone to complain about a world map as if that's the golden key to game development. Are you absolutely sure you want to defend that? He's literally throwing random ideas into a hat and each day, he draws something out to discuss. Sometimes, it's interesting, but this? Come on man.

I also never said Pantheon was finished, complete or released. I don't think anyone has. Yes, it's still in development, so what's your point? Game development varies from game to game. How big is the game? How many people are working on it? You mean to tell me that you think 6 years for an indie team to develop a full fledged MMORPG is too long? It took Blizzard 5 years to make WoW and that's with a triple AAA company with full funding.

I give Star Citizen a lot of crap but there's a difference between 500 employees and $250 million backing that game and it's been in development since 2011/2012. So sure, crowd funding can end up in a really bad place really quick if one of the developers utilizing it doesn't show a finished product. I don't see the scope and vision that is Pantheon being in the boat of least likely to succeed when it comes to current crowd funded MMOs in development.

You really don't get the point of all this.... It's not about the map, but deception.  Re-read the OP.

Pantheon is the poster child of "is it done yet"... Why because they gave people the assumption years ago that it was coming along good.  Now going on 6 year's theirs no real prof it's even started...... How shallow can you be thinking its about a map !

Apparently they stated theirs weeks worth of beginning zone content where is it !!

Your news letter is full of fluff to keep you happy.

TEKK3N

delete5230 said:

TEKK3N said:

Now is the map.
Can you nitpick some more?

Running out of things to complain?
We are slowly descending into the “color of VR toilet tiles” domain.

The map is the topic because it was made before the game was even a thought. Put on display to deceive the people thinking the game was started. 

It’s a map.
No one buys a game because they like a map.

delete5230

TEKK3N said:

delete5230 said:

TEKK3N said:

Now is the map.
Can you nitpick some more?

Running out of things to complain?
We are slowly descending into the “color of VR toilet tiles” domain.

The map is the topic because it was made before the game was even a thought. Put on display to deceive the people thinking the game was started. 

It’s a map.
No one buys a game because they like a map.

Without a map your lost

Sovrath

delete5230 said:

Rhoklaw said:

Wizardry said:

Rhoklaw said:

So Pantheon is vaporware because they created a map of the world before making the game? You're right, crowd funded games should be banished and we should go back to the bureaucratic approach of game development which has resulted in nothing but F2P PvP games with P2W cash shops.

I think you are under the "assumption" that just because you crowd fund something,you have any say at all.Not only don't you have a say,you have no idea what the actual game will end up looking like because the early pitch is just a sales pitch to get your money.
Pantheon is vaporware until there is an actual game,before that point arises,it is just promises.

No where on this planet should we be calling promises as an actual game.There might be parts of a game but still not yet a game.Imagine if people crowd funded Fortnite,it is not even remotely the game it was intended to be.How about Ashes,out of nowhere he starts trying to babble on about some BR mode for testing,you cannot trust ANY of these devs,even the ones that are not crowd funding.

I don't get to much invested in these crowd funding projects because i know the end result but man i didn't know it was already 6 years...yikes.I do not think they have 6 years worth of work done yet,maybe 2 years tops.

I'm not saying it's wrong to question something. I'm saying it's ridiculous for someone to complain about a world map as if that's the golden key to game development. Are you absolutely sure you want to defend that? He's literally throwing random ideas into a hat and each day, he draws something out to discuss. Sometimes, it's interesting, but this? Come on man.

I also never said Pantheon was finished, complete or released. I don't think anyone has. Yes, it's still in development, so what's your point? Game development varies from game to game. How big is the game? How many people are working on it? You mean to tell me that you think 6 years for an indie team to develop a full fledged MMORPG is too long? It took Blizzard 5 years to make WoW and that's with a triple AAA company with full funding.

I give Star Citizen a lot of crap but there's a difference between 500 employees and $250 million backing that game and it's been in development since 2011/2012. So sure, crowd funding can end up in a really bad place really quick if one of the developers utilizing it doesn't show a finished product. I don't see the scope and vision that is Pantheon being in the boat of least likely to succeed when it comes to current crowd funded MMOs in development.

You really don't get the point of all this.... It's not about the map, but deception.  Re-read the OP.

Pantheon is the poster child of "is it done yet"... Why because they gave people the assumption years ago that it was coming along good.  Now going on 6 year's theirs no real prof it's even started...... How shallow can you be thinking its about a map !

Apparently they stated theirs weeks worth of beginning zone content where is it !!

Your news letter is full of fluff to keep you happy.

There was no deception. They went to kickstarter with very little and very few backed it, including myself.

Then, after it failed, they said that they were going to continue development but at a very slow pace AND that they had to also rebuild their team.

Not really deception. For the viewer it's called "paying attention."

Theocritus

Sounds like if it ever makes it to launch it won't be much of a game. THey just don't have the money to do it well and it's based on a 20 year old game that is running on fumes too.