An example of how Mark Jacobs interacts with those who don't agree with him

MightyUnclean

This is just one example of how Jacobs is talking to people who don't support him in the comments to the Massively article.  I'll let you make up your own mind as to whether this is how the head of a company should be interacting with the public.

Mark Jacobs

Thanks OC for once again, doing that lying thing you do so well.

You’ve been saying for years, when you are going to livestream and we did. And yet, even though we showed what are engine can do and Eliot got to play it live himself (and he commented on it), you’re ignoring that just to shitpost me and CU and our engine.

I hope you’re getting paid to do this, at least part of my job is to talk to the community. You spend a lot of your time shitposting me, other games, and anybody who dares to question SC. At least I’m making two game and an engine. What are you contributing to the world OC?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you’re WKing SC, attacking anybody who disagrees with on their threads and me/CU here.

Yeah, big accomplishment. You must be so proud.

Cya!

Slapshot1188

MJ played this wrong and was up for like 30 hours straight responding to people.  He apparently still has not gone to bed since the stream yesterday.

His responses in general have been a bit snippy.

That said, there were 2-3 guys on the forums or especially MassivelyOP that were a bit excessive and he kind of dumped on them.  Now, I more than most know that when you get a Developer to lose his shit and drag him into the mud with you... well...  that's bad for the Developer.

MJ should know this and avoid it but for some reason he feels compelled to respond to each and every post.

That said, the vast majority of responses to people who disagree with this news has been along the lines of:

I hope you give us a chance to prove this is for the best.
Or
I understand and accept what you are saying.  Have you read my response to XYZ?


But yeah... letting people goad him into calling them trolls is a bad look and he should know better by now.

Ungood

Well I can't speak for anyone else but myself.

But my first thought was "Well this OC person ought stop shit posting on every game out there and do something productive"

MightyUnclean

Slapshot1188 said:

MJ played this wrong and was up for like 30 hours straight responding to people.  He apparently still has not gone to bed since the stream yesterday.

His responses in general have been a bit snippy.

That said, there were 2-3 guys on the forums or especially MassivelyOP that were a bit excessive and he kind of dumped on them.  Now, I more than most know that when you get a Developer to lose his shit and drag him into the mud with you... well...  that's bad for the Developer.

MJ should know this and avoid it but for some reason he feels compelled to respond to each and every post.

That said, the vast majority of responses to people who disagree with this news has been along the lines of:

I hope you give us a chance to prove this is for the best.
Or
I understand and accept what you are saying.  Have you read my response to XYZ?


But yeah... letting people goad him into calling them trolls is a bad look and he should know better by now.

Exactly.  It's unprofessional.  These "shitposters" are anonymous guys on the internet.  They don't have anything to lose.  He does.

Thomas2006

I don't understand why you are still so hung up on this. You have already stated you do not like this and that you are getting a refund..  Why not move on or are you trying to be like OC and dump on the game cause you do not like what they are doing?

MightyUnclean

Thomas2006 said:

I don't understand why you are still so hung up on this. You have already stated you do not like this and that you are getting a refund..  Why not move on or are you trying to be like OC and dump on the game cause you do not like what they are doing?

You don't understand people discussing current events about MMORPGs on a discussion forum centered on MMORPG's?  Maybe better to ask yourself why you're bothering to read what we say and then taking the time to respond.

DafAtRandom

I'm pretty indifferent on it.  On the one hand, it is unprofessional, but on the other hand, it is 2020 and it is rarer and rarer to see anyone stand up for themselves without trying to play the pity refrain on the internet to try to gain a capital of sympathy first.  So, good for him for not being a spineless moron, I guess.  Or not.  I don't really care about him or the games he's making, and I find that in life when you don't have anything at play on the matter, you tend to not give a biased opinion one way or another.

Since he's a public figure of sorts, he probably should have ignored it all.  Not giving a flying fuck about what useless wastes of human skins have to say on the internet would probably have flown better with the sensitive crew in 2020 because it IS 2020 and you can fart sitting on your toilet in the comfort of your home and manage to offend somebody in a country you've never visited.

Ungood

DafAtRandom said:

I'm pretty indifferent on it.  On the one hand, it is unprofessional, but on the other hand, it is 2020 and it is rarer and rarer to see anyone stand up for themselves without trying to play the pity refrain on the internet to try to gain a capital of sympathy first.  So, good for him for not being a spineless moron, I guess.  Or not.  I don't really care about him or the games he's making, and I find that in life when you don't have anything at play on the matter, you tend to not give a biased opinion one way or another.

Since he's a public figure of sorts, he probably should have ignored it all.  Not giving a flying fuck about what useless wastes of human skins have to say on the internet would probably have flown better with the sensitive crew in 2020 because it IS 2020 and you can fart sitting on your toilet in the comfort of your home and manage to offend somebody in a country you've never visited.

Yah, I tend to agree, but at the same time, it's really hard to watch do-nothing no-lifers shit on your labor of love, that you have invested years of your life and lots of your own money into.

Sandmanjw

Got to say everyone is human...so they get tired and mad and things get said.

Not like i follow this game much anyhow, but i have not heard this is a ongoing thing. 

Dev's today need to have a really thick skin, especially those that are doing this crowd funding stuff.

You invite everyone and their dog into your house...and you are gonna get all kinds and some shit too... 

Iselin

Slapshot1188 said:

MJ played this wrong and was up for like 30 hours straight responding to people.  He apparently still has not gone to bed since the stream yesterday.

His responses in general have been a bit snippy.

That said, there were 2-3 guys on the forums or especially MassivelyOP that were a bit excessive and he kind of dumped on them.  Now, I more than most know that when you get a Developer to lose his shit and drag him into the mud with you... well...  that's bad for the Developer.

MJ should know this and avoid it but for some reason he feels compelled to respond to each and every post.

That said, the vast majority of responses to people who disagree with this news has been along the lines of:

I hope you give us a chance to prove this is for the best.
Or
I understand and accept what you are saying.  Have you read my response to XYZ?


But yeah... letting people goad him into calling them trolls is a bad look and he should know better by now.

Mark has always been like that. Even back in the DAoC VN Board days he always stood out for being much more... interactive(?) with the players than any other developer around.

With all the up-close-and-personal KS projects these days that just seems normal now but it wasn't back then. He probably misses Sanja running interference for him although she could get pretty snippy herself countering what she considered unfair criticism or lies.

The most interesting part out of all this for me though is that it's happening at Massively and not here. This would have been here even as recently as 2 years ago. This site feels to me like it's going into maintenance mode or may be already there.

Slapshot1188

Iselin said:

Slapshot1188 said:

MJ played this wrong and was up for like 30 hours straight responding to people.  He apparently still has not gone to bed since the stream yesterday.

His responses in general have been a bit snippy.

That said, there were 2-3 guys on the forums or especially MassivelyOP that were a bit excessive and he kind of dumped on them.  Now, I more than most know that when you get a Developer to lose his shit and drag him into the mud with you... well...  that's bad for the Developer.

MJ should know this and avoid it but for some reason he feels compelled to respond to each and every post.

That said, the vast majority of responses to people who disagree with this news has been along the lines of:

I hope you give us a chance to prove this is for the best.
Or
I understand and accept what you are saying.  Have you read my response to XYZ?


But yeah... letting people goad him into calling them trolls is a bad look and he should know better by now.

Mark has always been like that. Even back in the DAoC VN Board days he always stood out for being much more... interactive(?) with the players than any other developer around.

With all the up-close-and-personal KS projects these days that just seems normal now but it wasn't back then. He probably misses Sanja running interference for him although she could get pretty snippy herself countering what she considered unfair criticism or lies.

The most interesting part out of all this for me though is that it's happening at Massively and not here. This would have been here even as recently as 2 years ago. This site feels to me like it's going into maintenance mode or may be already there.

I’m sure this site will get to it once someone sends them a PR email they can cut and paste.  I mean, there are sooo many MMORPGs in development that I am sure it’s hard to cover all the ones with huge news with multiple user created threads on your own forums. At least we have articles on Dragon Quest 10 Japanese Beta, a gaming chair and a single player RPG!

Maybe someone should email the staff and let them know there is big news about an actual MMORPG in development.  They simply may not know unless you tell them...

Utinni

Surprised mods allow post titles slandering a specific person by name.

They are allowing refunds. Get your refund and move on with your life.

MightyUnclean

Utinni said:

Surprised mods allow post titles slandering a specific person by name.

They are allowing refunds. Get your refund and move on with your life.

Wait, Mark Jacobs can directly interact with the gaming community as Mark Jacobs, but we shouldn't use his name when discussing him, even if it's factual?

Also, you should probably look up the definition of "slander."  What in the title or body of my post was false?  Maybe you meant libel?  Also refers to false statements.

slan·der

/ˈslandər/

Learn to pronounce

noun

LAW

1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.
   
   
   li·bel

   /ˈlībəl/

   Learn to pronounce
   noun

   1. 1.

      LAW

      a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

Renfail

Slapshot1188 said:

At least we have articles on Dragon Quest 10 Japanese Beta, a gaming chair and a single player RPG!

Maybe someone should email the staff and let them know there is big news about an actual MMORPG in development.  They simply may not know unless you tell them...

Guffaw  

An MMORPG news site that doesn't know what's going on with MMORPGs unless their userbase tells them. It makes me giggle (in a sad way). 

But yeah, since Bill walked away to head his new venture, this place has gone downhill. I've seen tons of spam showing up in the threads (outbound links to get-rich spam posts), and it seems to be mostly coverage of the latest sponsored post for a gaming-related item (chair, headset, microphone, etc.), or a ton of single-player titles. 

Where are the deep-dives with developers of MMORPGs? Interviews with team members on the various MMORPGs in development? Coverage of the latest development news, or newsletters, or blog posts, or YouTube/Twitch videos that the companies put out? 

/shrug

Utinni

MightyUnclean said:

Utinni said:

Surprised mods allow post titles slandering a specific person by name.

They are allowing refunds. Get your refund and move on with your life.

Wait, Mark Jacobs can directly interact with the gaming community as Mark Jacobs, but we shouldn't use his name when discussing him, even if it's factual?

Also, you should probably look up the definition of "slander."  What in the title or body of my post was false?

slan·der

/ˈslandər/

Learn to pronounce

noun

LAW

1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

Move on with your life. Being upset over a game that doesn't exist and can be refunded isn't worth a cardiac event.

Slapshot1188

Renfail said:

Slapshot1188 said:

At least we have articles on Dragon Quest 10 Japanese Beta, a gaming chair and a single player RPG!

Maybe someone should email the staff and let them know there is big news about an actual MMORPG in development.  They simply may not know unless you tell them...

Guffaw  

An MMORPG news site that doesn't know what's going on with MMORPGs unless their userbase tells them. It makes me giggle (in a sad way). 

But yeah, since Bill walked away to head his new venture, this place has gone downhill. I've seen tons of spam showing up in the threads (outbound links to get-rich spam posts), and it seems to be mostly coverage of the latest sponsored post for a gaming-related item (chair, headset, microphone, etc.), or a ton of single-player titles. 

Where are the deep-dives with developers of MMORPGs? Interviews with team members on the various MMORPGs in development? Coverage of the latest development news, or newsletters, or blog posts, or YouTube/Twitch videos that the companies put out? 

/shrug

Sounds like you are volunteering for an interview!

@ShankTheTank See you get a 2 for 1 here.  Write an article about Camelot Unchained/Colossus and then interview Renfail.

Happy to help!

RexKushman

It's refreshing to see a dev actually call out a shit posting troll, we need a lot more of this type of thing.

MightyUnclean

Utinni said:

MightyUnclean said:

Utinni said:

Surprised mods allow post titles slandering a specific person by name.

They are allowing refunds. Get your refund and move on with your life.

Wait, Mark Jacobs can directly interact with the gaming community as Mark Jacobs, but we shouldn't use his name when discussing him, even if it's factual?

Also, you should probably look up the definition of "slander."  What in the title or body of my post was false?

slan·der

/ˈslandər/

Learn to pronounce

noun

LAW

1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.

Move on with your life. Being upset over a game that doesn't exist and can be refunded isn't worth a cardiac event.

Move on with your life and stop reading my posts.

Utinni

Slapshot1188 said:

Renfail said:

Slapshot1188 said:

At least we have articles on Dragon Quest 10 Japanese Beta, a gaming chair and a single player RPG!

Maybe someone should email the staff and let them know there is big news about an actual MMORPG in development.  They simply may not know unless you tell them...

Guffaw  

An MMORPG news site that doesn't know what's going on with MMORPGs unless their userbase tells them. It makes me giggle (in a sad way). 

But yeah, since Bill walked away to head his new venture, this place has gone downhill. I've seen tons of spam showing up in the threads (outbound links to get-rich spam posts), and it seems to be mostly coverage of the latest sponsored post for a gaming-related item (chair, headset, microphone, etc.), or a ton of single-player titles. 

Where are the deep-dives with developers of MMORPGs? Interviews with team members on the various MMORPGs in development? Coverage of the latest development news, or newsletters, or blog posts, or YouTube/Twitch videos that the companies put out? 

/shrug

Sounds like you are volunteering for an interview!

I think I've asked Renfail more questions directly on discord than this website has. His whole team are gamers who love to play/chat about games!

Renfail

Utinni said:

I think I've asked Renfail more questions directly on discord than this website has. His whole team are gamers who love to play/chat about games!

That's one of the beautiful aspects of Discord, is that I can quickly and easily answer people on a daily basis. And yeah, games are our life (hell, I'm playing WoW Classic like 5 nights a week with our community, even), so it just makes sense that we immerse ourselves in all aspects. 

I've got that Dark Crystal tactical game on pre-order for Feb 4th, even, and then there's the FF7 remake in April, then Last of Us II, and then Cyberpunk 2077, and I'm getting ready to pick up the alpha for Dual Universe in May (time-willing).....

But yeah, it's kind of silly how our community members often have to reach out to the "MMORPG news" outlets to let them know about updates, when you would think the staff of said news outlets would have RSS feeds set up, Google alerts set up, and would be scouring the Internet on a daily basis for MMORPG-related news, especially regarding in-development titles /wink wink

Renfail

Slapshot1188 said:

Sounds like you are volunteering for an interview!

@ShankTheTank See you get a 2 for 1 here.  Write an article about Camelot Unchained/Colossus and then interview Renfail.

Happy to help!

I'm always up for interviews. Just requires staff willing to reach out and make it happen  

It's a good time for one, with Stage Three of our alpha around the corner in April. 

Akulas

Good example why policies and procedures should be put in place with companies. Not to the point of standardising responses but to prevent this kind of thing happening.

AAAMEOW

sorry, what does OC mean?  Or who is this OC person

Wizardry

I don't really think it is fair or hold any developer to any kind of SPECIAL standards.
I do not have anything against mark but i do feel he has no game worth talking about,at least not yet.

I feel he has every right to react to comments just as regular folk react to comments.If he doesn't like what is being said he is allowed to respond,i mean why wouldn't he be allowed?

In that snippet,he did not blatantly attack back with a vague statement,he responded to not showing the game live and mentions that he did stream the game and still took the same flack.

I still remember like it was yesterday when Brad was willingly talking to the community and all people did was flame him on everything.Anyone can disagree with another,why not,if you don't like something,say it but don't outright flame someone for TRYING to communicate.

The sad reality is that this will likely not go good for Mark and his game and imo both need LOADS of help.One idea i will comment on is the notion of "contributing".IDK if there is any contributing yet or just PR moves and a internal move towards a fast cash grab,we won't know until a few months from now as we get closer.

Wizardry

Ungood said:

Well I can't speak for anyone else but myself.

But my first thought was "Well this OC person ought stop shit posting on every game out there and do something productive"

You do realize that the MAJORITY of games and their devs are NOT giving us their HONEST effort,they are in FACT running a business,one designed to make as much money from as little effort as possible.
NOBODY gets a free pass in this world and nobody is giving you their honest effort in the game industry.
You can look at developers EXACTLY like you see Twitch Streamers,the vast majority are out there to make money and NOT to simply SHARE the love of gaming.

If there are 500 in a row crap games or all looking like some weekend warrior made them,why should anyone give them credit when all they are doing is trying to scam us by trying to sell us crap?
I'll tell you how it works,devs make a great game that warrant our money,they are trying to SELL us a product,you do that with good effort and a good product.You do not simply sell us something and expect accolades for nothing.A business MUST earn respect and EARN it's money,nothing is for free,not money or accolades.

Go build a house,your tradesman all do a crap job,what do you do praise them for trying?Your likely going to complain,tell them to get it right or they don't get paid,that is how the REAL world works and that is how the gaming business works.

MightyUnclean

Wizardry said:

Ungood said:

Well I can't speak for anyone else but myself.

But my first thought was "Well this OC person ought stop shit posting on every game out there and do something productive"

Go build a house,your tradesman all do a crap job,what do you do praise them for trying?Your likely going to complain,tell them to get it right or they don't get paid,that is how the REAL world works and that is how the gaming business works.

True, except in the crowdfunding world, they get the money years before they finish the job, if they ever do finish.  And then a lot of the time, they're not open to any criticism of the work they're doing.  They're excellent salesmen, and they're very good at convincing people to give them money for an idea, with no legal responsibility to ever deliver.  At this point, I've learned not to believe one word of what any of them say until the final product is delivered.  And we all know how often that's happened with these crowdfunded MMOs.