They have to GIVE SOME perks,. I mean, the game is an Alpha test, so they need to do something. This is funny though. It shows where the developers work really lie, keeping the whales hooked.
And its cosmetic only. Even for the whales.
>>> It shows where the developers work really lie >>>
Giving an existing skin a different color (gold) to give the whales a unique perk.
I think it is funny people call this a game. It is an alpha test that people are paying for so of course they don't want to admit, it is still 50/50 that CS will come out.
So much money invested.....
Its a crowdfunding project currently in Alpha testing.
Not an Alpha by a company, that people pay to participate in.
We, the backers, make it possible, together with CIG.
>>> So much money invested..... >>>
As much as needed, as long as it takes.
Have fun
Crowdfunding means the developer has no strings to deliver anything. Right now the game has raised more money than it cost to produce most movies. Doesn't that make people want to pause in funding?
Or is it the peopl will continue to put in money HOPING that their bet comes out.
Alpha by any other name is still a test. I tested both GW1 and GW2 in Alpha stages. The basic mechanics were there the looks changed is all.
This game seems to have moving goal posts, so how can one judge when the developers never just say, 'This is it for adding into the game. We are done and now will finish and polish to get the game out.'
I agree and disagree they are also raising millions from private investors, and investors will have contracts in place before they loan out money. More than likely those contracts will carry some assurance that a final prodict would be released to get paid back.
I think it is funny people call this a game. It is an alpha test that people are paying for so of course they don't want to admit, it is still 50/50 that CS will come out.
So much money invested.....
Its a crowdfunding project currently in Alpha testing.
Not an Alpha by a company, that people pay to participate in.
We, the backers, make it possible, together with CIG.
>>> So much money invested..... >>>
As much as needed, as long as it takes.
Have fun
Crowdfunding means the developer has no strings to deliver anything. Right now the game has raised more money than it cost to produce most movies. Doesn't that make people want to pause in funding?
Or is it the peopl will continue to put in money HOPING that their bet comes out.
Alpha by any other name is still a test. I tested both GW1 and GW2 in Alpha stages. The basic mechanics were there the looks changed is all.
This game seems to have moving goal posts, so how can one judge when the developers never just say, 'This is it for adding into the game. We are done and now will finish and polish to get the game out.'
I agree and disagree they are also raising millions from private investors, and investors will have contracts in place before they loan out money. More than likely those contracts will carry some assurance that a final prodict would be released to get paid back.
Do they have contracts? It seems That Crowd funding is still the majority of the funding. If they have private funding then they will hold this companies feet to the fire, unlike the rose-colored glass wearing crowd-funders.
"....The discussion then moves on to the Pyro system, which is being described
as a lawless land with six or seven planets, around a dozen moons, and a
couple of landing zones planned. Naturally being a dangerous place,
it’ll be where valuable minerals will be that likely won’t be available
anywhere else or in greater quantities. Salvage, which is the next
occupation being worked on by the team, will also likely be a major
feature in the Pyro system, as there’s likely going to be a great deal
of derelict ships out there. Don’t hold your breath on Pyro’s arrival,
however; there’s still no firm release date, simply that it will be
“after 3.9.....”
Scam Citizen. When this fails and fails hard- I for one cant wait to gloat on these forums! I just cant understand how people think that their business model and development approach of the game is feasible - they have been developing mindless assets for the store for half a decade now and little to nothing to show for except broken promises.
"Collapse 90 days top for sure" naysayer throw everywhere... back in 2015
Call broken promise current Alpha with features no other games have
This is call game in development and clearly some try very hard to not understand you can't release ambitious from scratch in a couple years.
Scam Citizen. When this fails and fails hard- I for one cant wait to gloat on these forums! I just cant understand how people think that their business model and development approach of the game is feasible - they have been developing mindless assets for the store for half a decade now and little to nothing to show for except broken promises.
"Collapse 90 days top for sure" naysayer throw everywhere... back in 2015
Call broken promise current Alpha with features no other games have
This is call game in development and clearly some try very hard to not understand you can't release ambitious from scratch in a couple years.
Or even 8 years apparently. What do suppose it will take, another 5 or so?
Trying to figure out my hardware upgrade plan, looks like another two or three cycles maybe?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am so conflicted about Star Citizen. On the one hand I'm thinking: "Gosh...it's been 8 years since they announced the project, and they've spent over $300 million dollars, and have over 500 developers working on it. But, all they have to show for it is a mediocre flight/mining simulator? OMG! Those poor fools have been scammed!! Someone call 911: "Hello, Chief McAlister? Yeah...he's a chubby guy with dark hair, and a black shirt on! I think he went into that donut shop on the corner of Privet lane and Baker Street! Be careful...he's a maniac! Ok, bye"
On the other hand (please, naysayers, hear me out) maybe it is that they have all the hard work done and behind them now, and they're ready to start pumping out large amounts of high-quality content. Furthermore, maybe they want to keep a lot of their development progress - systems, mechanics, content, etc. - a secret so that other developers can't swoop in and steal their ideas. It's plausible...Oh, yes, it is plausible.
So, if it turns out that Star Citizen is truly a massive project, and not just an elaborate scam, here's what I want my main to be/have/do...
1) I want her to be a very highly skilled, highly capable, and devastatingly beautiful woman...a Special Forces operative/assassin/bounty hunter/private investigator rolled into one. It should take me quite a long time to accomplish this - approximately 18-24 in-game months to move her from character creation to maxed skill-levels in the aforementioned classes.
2) I want her to have state-of-the-art cybernetic implants and genetic modifications that will greatly facilitate her success as a "Ghost" operative...and be highly customizable; no 'cookie-cutter' builds, please. Again, this should require a considerable amount of ingame time, effort and resources to accomplish.
3) I want a very fast, very cool looking mid-size spaceship with robust stealth and jamming capabilities...I want to be able to completely avoid those weird little nerds who love ganking unsuspecting spacefaring folk whilst shouting "BOOM! Got'cha bitch! BOOM, BOOM, BOOM...how ya like me now, bitch?! HA HA HA HA!" Yo, gramma! Get me another Mountain Dew, "please"!
4) I was so upset by what that jerkhole said about me in example # 3 that I forgot what # 4 was!
5) I want a very sophisticated mission-generation system that seamlessly creates procedurally generated content that is both interesting and relevant to my character. These missions should be meaningful and relatively short...lasting no more than 45-50 mins.
6) I want a wonderfully quirky AI companion that is embedded in the cybernetic implant in my head. She should have a fun and sassy personality, with hundreds of lines of well-thought-out dialog...but not be over-talkative. This, also, should require quite a lot of time, effort and resources to acquire in the game.
That's my wishlist, and it's all totally doable...especially with all the time, money and talent that has been poured into this project!
So, is Star Citizen the "real deal", or is it nothing more than an elaborate ruse used to swindle millions of desperate nerds out of their life savings? We shall see...
Scam Citizen. When this fails and fails hard- I for one cant wait to gloat on these forums! I just cant understand how people think that their business model and development approach of the game is feasible - they have been developing mindless assets for the store for half a decade now and little to nothing to show for except broken promises.
"Collapse 90 days top for sure" naysayer throw everywhere... back in 2015
Call broken promise current Alpha with features no other games have
This is call game in development and clearly some try very hard to not understand you can't release ambitious from scratch in a couple years.
Or even 8 years apparently. What do suppose it will take, another 5 or so?
Trying to figure out my hardware upgrade plan, looks like another two or three cycles maybe?
Now now its only being going 5 months longer than CU!
So only a couple of months over 7 years since the initial crowdfunding and a couple of months over 5 years since the crowdfunding finished. And 2 years after that they got the alpha up.
For anyone thinking of upgrading though I am with those who would say not to on the basis of this - or any other - game not yet in development. SC does have a performance vs. hardware tool though. Which might give people an idea on how any particular rig might perform as the newer games start to use stuff like Positional Based Lighting.
Scam Citizen. When this fails and fails hard- I for one cant wait to gloat on these forums! I just cant understand how people think that their business model and development approach of the game is feasible - they have been developing mindless assets for the store for half a decade now and little to nothing to show for except broken promises.
"Collapse 90 days top for sure" naysayer throw everywhere... back in 2015
Call broken promise current Alpha with features no other games have
This is call game in development and clearly some try very hard to not understand you can't release ambitious from scratch in a couple years.
Or even 8 years apparently. What do suppose it will take, another 5 or so?
Trying to figure out my hardware upgrade plan, looks like another two or three cycles maybe?
Now now its only being going 5 months longer than CU!
So only a couple of months over 7 years since the initial crowdfunding and a couple of months over 5 years since the crowdfunding finished. And 2 years after that they got the alpha up.
For anyone thinking of upgrading though I am with those who would say not to on the basis of this - or any other - game not yet in development. SC does have a performance vs. hardware tool though. Which might give people an idea on how any particular rig might perform as the newer games start to use stuff like Positional Based Lighting.
How much money has CU raised versus CS? How many employees do they have - CS has 500 people working on it. GW2 had 200 and a lot less money. But CU is building a NEW game engine and CS is based on someone else's game engine.
Maybe the issue is maybe it is too big to do currently. Just saying that could be a possibility.
Scam Citizen. When this fails and fails hard- I for one cant wait to gloat on these forums! I just cant understand how people think that their business model and development approach of the game is feasible - they have been developing mindless assets for the store for half a decade now and little to nothing to show for except broken promises.
"Collapse 90 days top for sure" naysayer throw everywhere... back in 2015
Call broken promise current Alpha with features no other games have
This is call game in development and clearly some try very hard to not understand you can't release ambitious from scratch in a couple years.
I am sure Mansur he just wants people to do their homework and not risk PTCU. Which is perfectly reasonable. Don't believe the hype or the negativity. Check out what exists. Which in the case of SC is the alpha - regular free fly events for non-backers, the vids, the roadmap etc.
Remember Mansur backed CU. And a CU (or SC) package gets you the game and a character slot; a more expensive CU (or SC) package gets you the game and some extras, CU's include e.g. special starter armor and weapons (just don't call them p2w!). (And for completeness CU is also selling 3 year subscriptions for $190 and I hope some version of CU gets released but .... its hard).
Will you get all from your list ? I guess no ... especially as the skill of your character is YOUR skill, there are no skill levels to train beyond your own (your point 1).
Will it be a very diverse sci-fi universe that gives you a lot of freedom to do whatever you want, in the tradition of the early Star Wars Galaxies ? I think yes.
Will it be stunningly beautiful ? I can already give that a HELL YES !
Whilst we don't know the details based on: what was said - that the investment will fund marketing; the fact that "marketing" is both defined (it includes the alpha server for example) and broken out in the "financial results" and that any sensible investors would want to build in protections (to prevent the company being wound up and their money walking etc.) I suspect something like:
- the money was put and is held in a distinct account; - an initial amount equal to the "marketing" costs up to 2018 was "drawn down" at the point the 10% of the company was signed over. - subsequent draw downs are being made to cover the "marketing" costs.
And at the current rate of spend it could be 4 or 5 years before all the money has been "drawn down". There may be cut-offs and other terms obviously.
Something like this though would protect the investors on the one hand - from the other directors wrapping up RSI and starting a new company. Also protects the company - if it all goes sour in the future it will be hard for the investors to sue and claim they were misled etc. They will have had full access and a full say in how things progress. It would be a gradual coming together.
The thing that bothers me the most about the some the fan boys here is they keep giving the impression that it's a practical finished game, which it is not. Oh and can some post the current grand total of funds that this "game" has garnered since it started?
Scam Citizen. When this fails and fails hard- I for one cant wait to gloat on these forums! I just cant understand how people think that their business model and development approach of the game is feasible - they have been developing mindless assets for the store for half a decade now and little to nothing to show for except broken promises.
"Collapse 90 days top for sure" naysayer throw everywhere... back in 2015
Call broken promise current Alpha with features no other games have
This is call game in development and clearly some try very hard to not understand you can't release ambitious from scratch in a couple years.
Or even 8 years apparently. What do suppose it will take, another 5 or so?
Trying to figure out my hardware upgrade plan, looks like another two or three cycles maybe?
You think he knows?
>I have personally zero doubt about CIG releasing SQ42 first chapter between end of 21017 and mid 2018.
I would consider myself a fan and i would NOT call it a "practically finished game".
But there is already A LOT you can do in game. Most of it things that players invented and where the game is flexible and varied enough to allow it.
Unless its CIG themselves no one can give you a "current grand total". While there is a crowdfunding counter, other things like voluntary subscriptions, sold merchandise, refunds deducted from the total, silent investors, sponsoring deals etc. are unknown and hard to accurately quantify.
how long has this been crowdfunding now with empty promises?
3.8.2 to be released anytime and SQ42 beta by end of the year. Indeed the current Alpha do have more features than any single triple-A released by Publishers which are delviering only copy/paste of their own games or even fail to deliver (Fallout 76, Anthem, Warcraft reforged)
We had the promise to get a simpelr efresh of Wing Commander and we got two triple-A... for the same price as long you were early backer. A true shame !)
Oh so they spent $300mil in 8 years and still haven't released those games? Also I could have sworn I had seen something about SQ42 beta in years past. Ah someone beat me to it above me.
how long has this been crowdfunding now with empty promises?
3.8.2 to be released anytime and SQ42 beta by end of the year. Indeed the current Alpha do have more features than any single triple-A released by Publishers which are delviering only copy/paste of their own games or even fail to deliver (Fallout 76, Anthem, Warcraft reforged)
We had the promise to get a simpelr efresh of Wing Commander and we got two triple-A... for the same price as long you were early backer. A true shame !)
Oh so they spent $300mil in 8 years and still haven't released those games? Also I could have sworn I had seen something about SQ42 beta in years past. Ah someone beat me to it above me.
How much were those salvage ships anyways? Enough to meltdown for a prison cell?
Putting aside the context! the answer is in the "pillow talk". Namely: its to do with "persistence".
Persistence? Persistence is persistence right?
Wrong.
On the one hand you have "character centred persistence". You log off and when you log back in the world hasn't changed. This is typical for PvE games. And relatively simple.
At the other extreme you have "world centred persistence". You log off and the world continues. I mentioned Stronghold Crusades in another thread a few days ago. Its an example of a pretty typical browser PvP game. You can log off with a fully developed setup, log back in and its all destroyed.
Between these extremes you have variations e.g. completing key PvE quest lines in WoW, LotR etc changes stuff.
One of the things discussed in the pillar talk was "finite resources". - a system might have a resource one day but subsequently the resource dries up. So the price will change. -or a new source might be discovered. So the price will change. - or a new transit point might be discovered making a supply that was previously a long way away become a local supply. So the price will change. (Shades of Fred Pohl's Gateway books in that comment I thought).
So the answer to how much are those salvage ships worth is: it depends. And it will change.
How much were those salvage ships anyways? Enough to meltdown for a prison cell?
Putting aside the context! the answer is in the "pillow talk". Namely: its to do with "persistence".
Persistence? Persistence is persistence right?
Wrong.
On the one hand you have "character centred persistence". You log off and when you log back in the world hasn't changed. This is typical for PvE games. And relatively simple.
At the other extreme you have "world centred persistence". You log off and the world continues. I mentioned Stronghold Crusades in another thread a few days ago. Its an example of a pretty typical browser PvP game. You can log off with a fully developed setup, log back in and its all destroyed.
Between these extremes you have variations e.g. completing key PvE quest lines in WoW, LotR etc changes stuff.
One of the things discussed in the pillar talk was "finite resources". - a system might have a resource one day but subsequently the resource dries up. So the price will change. -or a new source might be discovered. So the price will change. - or a new transit point might be discovered making a supply that was previously a long way away become a local supply. So the price will change. (Shades of Fred Pohl's Gateway books in that comment I thought).
So the answer to how much are those salvage ships worth is: it depends. And it will change.
Raising money by selling every in game asset they have ever made, and some they are probably yet to make is not a long term business model.. Its just a cash grab of epic proportions.
If you guys ever manage to get your hands on a full release, it will never meet your expectations. You will be playing wallet wars in a universe devoid of life, because no new players want to join a game that people have been throwing their credit card at for a decade...
God speed though. For what its worth, I hope you at least get your moneys worth... All $300,000,000 worth... and counting.. I am sure they will have their hands out for another round soon.
>>> I hope you at least get your moneys worth.. >>>
I already did. And the game has not even launched yet.
Have fun
Wow, you must have some tremendously low expectations for a $300 million game.
Raising money by selling every in game asset they have ever made, and some they are probably yet to make is not a long term business model.. Its just a cash grab of epic proportions.
If you guys ever manage to get your hands on a full release, it will never meet your expectations. You will be playing wallet wars in a universe devoid of life, because no new players want to join a game that people have been throwing their credit card at for a decade...
God speed though. For what its worth, I hope you at least get your moneys worth... All $300,000,000 worth... and counting.. I am sure they will have their hands out for another round soon.
I mostly care about SQ42. . so maybe I will get waaaaaay more than my money's worth since the work on the persistant world might make it better. Just give me a date at some point . . release it and add things . . after.
How much were those salvage ships anyways? Enough to meltdown for a prison cell?
One of the things discussed in the pillar talk was "finite resources". - a system might have a resource one day but subsequently the resource dries up. So the price will change.
This is why SWG economy worked. Randomized resource stats that can't spawn again and have a finite supply.
Will you get all from your list ? I guess no ... especially as the skill of your character is YOUR skill, there are no skill levels to train beyond your own (your point 1).
Will it be a very diverse sci-fi universe that gives you a lot of freedom to do whatever you want, in the tradition of the early Star Wars Galaxies ? I think yes.
Will it be stunningly beautiful ? I can already give that a HELL YES !
Have fun
The skill of my character is MY skill? WTF does that mean? One of the classes listed in the wiki is Medic...I'm not a medic, so my skill as a medic would be rubbish! :P
"It'll be a very diverse sci-fi universe that gives you a lot of freedom to do whatever you want..." Just not any of the things I listed, though...right? You know who else has a lot of freedom? Hoboes. Running in terror from a pack of feral hoboes, who have turned to cannibalism to sustain their carefree life, is not my idea of fun! - "Hey, Gus! Ya got any fava beans on ya?"
Will it be stunningly beautiful? I don't know...will it? The environments that I've seen so far are devoid of character...the interiors of the ships and buildings look sterile, like a Level 4 Biocontainment facility - not one particle of unauthorized clutter to be found anywhere. Also, many of the animations that I've seen in SC are very clunky and amateurish...even to the point of being unsettling. One of the previous poster's linked a video that showed a lot of the facial animations in SC...they reminded me of scenes in horror movies where they speed up the movements of humans in order to increase the tension and anxiety in the audience. Yeah, not good.
Comments
Edit: n/m, I saw that guy got the smackdown the second it was brought up @ 12:45. lol Don't bring up salvage around CRobbers I guess...
How much were those salvage ships anyways? Enough to meltdown for a prison cell?
Investors always have contracts.
They signed a 46m dollar deal in late 2018 for Squadron 42 in particular. https://www.businessinsider.com/star-citizen-has-raised-over-250-million-squadron-42-set-for-2020-2018-12 - https://cloudimperiumgames.com/blog/letter-from-the-chairman/investment-news
"Collapse 90 days top for sure" naysayer throw everywhere... back in 2015
Call broken promise current Alpha with features no other games have
This is call game in development and clearly some try very hard to not understand you can't release ambitious from scratch in a couple years.
Trying to figure out my hardware upgrade plan, looks like another two or three cycles maybe?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So only a couple of months over 7 years since the initial crowdfunding and a couple of months over 5 years since the crowdfunding finished. And 2 years after that they got the alpha up.
For anyone thinking of upgrading though I am with those who would say not to on the basis of this - or any other - game not yet in development. SC does have a performance vs. hardware tool though. Which might give people an idea on how any particular rig might perform as the newer games start to use stuff like Positional Based Lighting.
Maybe the issue is maybe it is too big to do currently. Just saying that could be a possibility.
Remember Mansur backed CU. And a CU (or SC) package gets you the game and a character slot; a more expensive CU (or SC) package gets you the game and some extras, CU's include e.g. special starter armor and weapons (just don't call them p2w!). (And for completeness CU is also selling 3 year subscriptions for $190 and I hope some version of CU gets released but .... its hard).
And its not just CU that has this model either!
So go easy on Mansur please. Think: PTCU.
Whilst we don't know the details based on: what was said - that the investment will fund marketing; the fact that "marketing" is both defined (it includes the alpha server for example) and broken out in the "financial results" and that any sensible investors would want to build in protections (to prevent the company being wound up and their money walking etc.) I suspect something like:
- the money was put and is held in a distinct account;
- an initial amount equal to the "marketing" costs up to 2018 was "drawn down" at the point the 10% of the company was signed over.
- subsequent draw downs are being made to cover the "marketing" costs.
And at the current rate of spend it could be 4 or 5 years before all the money has been "drawn down". There may be cut-offs and other terms obviously.
Something like this though would protect the investors on the one hand - from the other directors wrapping up RSI and starting a new company. Also protects the company - if it all goes sour in the future it will be hard for the investors to sue and claim they were misled etc. They will have had full access and a full say in how things progress. It would be a gradual coming together.
>I have personally zero doubt about CIG releasing SQ42 first chapter between end of 21017 and mid 2018.
Oh so they spent $300mil in 8 years and still haven't released those games? Also I could have sworn I had seen something about SQ42 beta in years past. Ah someone beat me to it above me.
Persistence? Persistence is persistence right?
Wrong.
On the one hand you have "character centred persistence". You log off and when you log back in the world hasn't changed. This is typical for PvE games. And relatively simple.
At the other extreme you have "world centred persistence". You log off and the world continues. I mentioned Stronghold Crusades in another thread a few days ago. Its an example of a pretty typical browser PvP game. You can log off with a fully developed setup, log back in and its all destroyed.
Between these extremes you have variations e.g. completing key PvE quest lines in WoW, LotR etc changes stuff.
One of the things discussed in the pillar talk was "finite resources".
- a system might have a resource one day but subsequently the resource dries up. So the price will change.
-or a new source might be discovered. So the price will change.
- or a new transit point might be discovered making a supply that was previously a long way away become a local supply. So the price will change. (Shades of Fred Pohl's Gateway books in that comment I thought).
So the answer to how much are those salvage ships worth is: it depends. And it will change.
(And they will have to balance it.)
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!