How much were those salvage ships anyways? Enough to meltdown for a prison cell?
One of the things discussed in the pillar talk was "finite resources". - a system might have a resource one day but subsequently the resource dries up. So the price will change.
This is why SWG economy worked. Randomized resource stats that can't spawn again and have a finite supply.
SWG had crafting, reselling on the market to players, and resources were at time and incentive for pvp. SC has none of those things.
How much were those salvage ships anyways? Enough to meltdown for a prison cell?
Putting aside the context! the answer is in the "pillow talk". Namely: its to do with "persistence".
Persistence? Persistence is persistence right?
Wrong.
On the one hand you have "character centred persistence". You log off and when you log back in the world hasn't changed. This is typical for PvE games. And relatively simple.
At the other extreme you have "world centred persistence". You log off and the world continues. I mentioned Stronghold Crusades in another thread a few days ago. Its an example of a pretty typical browser PvP game. You can log off with a fully developed setup, log back in and its all destroyed.
Between these extremes you have variations e.g. completing key PvE quest lines in WoW, LotR etc changes stuff.
One of the things discussed in the pillar talk was "finite resources". - a system might have a resource one day but subsequently the resource dries up. So the price will change. -or a new source might be discovered. So the price will change. - or a new transit point might be discovered making a supply that was previously a long way away become a local supply. So the price will change. (Shades of Fred Pohl's Gateway books in that comment I thought).
So the answer to how much are those salvage ships worth is: it depends. And it will change.
(And they will have to balance it.)
That wasn't my question. Thanks though.
Oh I realised that what you "wrote" was not what you "meant". Hence my "putting aside the context".
It is the answer to what you "wrote" though.
And, if you think it through, an answer of sorts to what I think you meant - how long will it take to earn enough to e.g. upgrade to a more expensive ship yes? If so why not just come out and say that? If you meant something else again what?
Assuming that is what you were getting at though hence my "And they will have to balance it."
As @Utinni mentioned variable resource is a game element that can/could/might give rise to a "dynamic" rather than a "static" form. Whether it works or not remains to be seen of course. It certainly added to SWG.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Raising money by selling every in game asset they have ever made, and some they are probably yet to make is not a long term business model.. Its just a cash grab of epic proportions.
If you guys ever manage to get your hands on a full release, it will never meet your expectations. You will be playing wallet wars in a universe devoid of life, because no new players want to join a game that people have been throwing their credit card at for a decade...
God speed though. For what its worth, I hope you at least get your moneys worth... All $300,000,000 worth... and counting.. I am sure they will have their hands out for another round soon.
Quote:"If you guys ever manage to get your hands on a full release, it will never meet your expectations. "
Sorry bud but it is already meeting ours expectations and beyond. More features in Alpha than any released triple-A... and this not counting for all SQ42 assets to be injected in SC at release and quartely patch adding contents and gameplay to SC.
They don't sell every assets... you can grab ships with in game Credits and their monetization model after release is not different of others F2P MMO around.
By the way, big ship won't make you the king of the hill... An Idris Capital ship flight by a couple guys won't be competitive against several basic starter package or few guys grinding a better fighter. We are talking about 10 hours grinding for a better fighter... an 10 hours in an MMO is totally achievable by anyone.
Buddy..
You are telling me that people are spending $3000 USD on a Javelin but me and a couple goons could buy a starter pack and grind for 8 hours and beat that guy? Who are you trying to fool here..
"More features in Alpha than any released triple-A" means literally nothing. In comparison to what?
Elite Dangerous? Was that even triple A?
No Mans Sky? I sure hope we are not using this as a comparison.
You can't make extremely vague statements with no basis and expect it to mean something. Are you comparing it to World of Warcraft? Lol. Dear lord I hope not.
The game has been in development for just short of a decade.. With well over 300 million dollars invested into the idea. I sure hope it has one hell of an alpha.
You are not fooling anyone with that bs you are spouting. This is pay to win at the highest level, and denying it makes you look foolish..
I can spend 8 seconds on the website looking at the stat differences between 2 fighter classes, the $80 Gladius, and the $800 Hammerhead and tell you that those 2 ships will never compete on the same level. So quit lying to me, and most of all quit lying to yourself.
I wont continue to rain on your parade. Its obvious you are excited for the game, and clearly dedicated to defending it. Who am I to try and take that away from you. If you are able to look past this ridiculous business model and enjoy it, great. I wish you all the best.
You are telling me that people are spending $3000 USD on a Javelin but me and a couple goons could buy a starter pack and grind for 8 hours and beat that guy? Who are you trying to fool here..
"More features in Alpha than any released triple-A" means literally nothing. In comparison to what?
Elite Dangerous? Was that even triple A?
No Mans Sky? I sure hope we are not using this as a comparison.
You can't make extremely vague statements with no basis and expect it to mean something. Are you comparing it to World of Warcraft? Lol. Dear lord I hope not.
The game has been in development for just short of a decade.. With well over 300 million dollars invested into the idea. I sure hope it has one hell of an alpha.
You are not fooling anyone with that bs you are spouting. This is pay to win at the highest level, and denying it makes you look foolish..
I can spend 8 seconds on the website looking at the stat differences between 2 fighter classes, the $80 Gladius, and the $800 Hammerhead and tell you that those 2 ships will never compete on the same level. So quit lying to me, and most of all quit lying to yourself.
I wont continue to rain on your parade. Its obvious you are excited for the game, and clearly dedicated to defending it. Who am I to try and take that away from you. If you are able to look past this ridiculous business model and enjoy it, great. I wish you all the best.
The primary difference between these ships is that this javelin you are talking about requires a very large group to maintain and man. You cannot fly this ship alone nor hire enough npcs to crew this ship to fully take advantage of what it can do. So yes if you and a few friends had the right ships to penetrate those shields you could easily take on anyone fool enough to fly that ship alone or without enough crew to manage it and in the end actually disable and take over that ship giving you the chance to make use of it yourself.
The same goes for the Gladius Vs Hammerhead. Without enough crew to outfit that ship the hammerhead is a big ole sitting duck. The pilot and co-pilot have very little gun access and trying to manage each turret by literally running from turret to turret and then getting in and out of it wouldn't work out against someone in the right ship or small crew in the right ships.
The main thing with SC is that people see a "Big Ship" and a "Small Ship" and just go "Yeah that's not gonna go well for the small ship." but there are a ton of people who own larger ships and lack the proper crew to outfit them so that they can be at their best. Most of them are and will end up being taken over by players and there are plenty of solo ships that can burn down a hammerhead.
This little clip shows some bounty hunters in gladius hunting a hammerhead to show its very possible.
"Indeed the current Alpha do have more features than any single triple-A released by Publishers"
From 2015 until to day ? For a game being developed since 2012, it would be immature to want to compare with games released only in 2019. Compare with games from the decade:
Bayonetta 2
The Witcher 3
Dishonored 2
Doom
Overwatch
Destiny 2
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
Black Desert Online
Assassin’s Creed Odyssey
God of War
Monster Hunter: World
Red Dead Redemption 2
Elder Scrolls Online
Yeah...sure.
The point was not to say no triple-A's have been released in past years... NONE of your list of games, even cumulating all of their features, have current SC Alpha features in 3.8 and that's going to be even more true with 3.9 and 4.0.
Those gameshave in common to have been done by studios with huge ressources (devs, pipelines and cash) at day one and to NOT developing two triple-A at once (Solo + MMO) in space.
"Indeed the current Alpha do have more features than any single triple-A released by Publishers"
From 2015 until to day ? For a game being developed since 2012, it would be immature to want to compare with games released only in 2019. Compare with games from the decade:
Bayonetta 2
The Witcher 3
Dishonored 2
Doom
Overwatch
Destiny 2
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
Black Desert Online
Assassin’s Creed Odyssey
God of War
Monster Hunter: World
Red Dead Redemption 2
Elder Scrolls Online
Yeah...sure.
The point was not to say no triple-A's have been released in past years... NONE of your list of games, even cumulating all of their features, have current SC Alpha features in 3.8 and that's going to be even more true with 3.9 and 4.0.
Those gameshave in common to have been done by studios with huge ressources (devs, pipelines and cash) at day one and to NOT developing two triple-A at once (Solo + MMO) in space.
So thanks to have confirm my original statement
3 years after release new gameplay mechanics are still being discovered in Breath of the Wild, your ignorance concerning the games on that list is painfully obvious, as long as CGI looks good.
I like SC, but come on, a little reason and common sense would be nice. The idea that it is the best game in all existence, ever of all time is silly, plenty of people that actually play it don’t feel that way at all, that doesn’t mean they don’t like the game or are haters. It isn’t finished, it is insanely expensive, it is delayed and it sure as hell doesn’t have more mechanics then those games mentioned above combined. It is gorgeous and fun though with great attention to detail. But an evolution, next gen, let alone the Messiah of gaming? Not really, and next gen is arriving at the end of this year with the ps5/xbox whatever when the industry takes a leap forward again (including pc since it is levelling the playing field again), SC isn’t.
Tldr: Being an SC/CGI fan is great, being an SC/CGI lunatic isn’t. What you say simply isn’t true. Also, the whole established versus new studio argument, SC isn’t done, it will take more money, more time, you are comparing apples and oranges when you point at other finished games.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
NONE of your list of games, even cumulating all of their features, have current SC Alpha features in 3.8 and that's going to be even more true with 3.9 and 4.0.
This is such a ridiculous point. Of course a fantasy game is not going to have features found in a space game. Of course a cowboy sim is not going to have features found in a space game and so on. There is literally no comparison to be found because none of those games are trying to be a space game.
The reverse is also true, each and every one of those games has plenty of things Star Citizen does not have but lets just pretend this is a one way comparison right?
---
What is more important to me is not how much they have raised in a year, thirsty guys throwing money at used panties pixel ships is not exactly an achievement. What is more important is what CIG have delivered for that money, and the answer in that case is - not a lot.
>>> The environments that I've seen so far are devoid of character...the
interiors of the ships and buildings look sterile, like a Level 4
Biocontainment facility - not one particle of unauthorized clutter to be
found anywhere. >>>
Because you probably have been a good citizen, living a lawful life in the areas were civilization rules and have not killed anyone. Have not been hunted by bounty hunters and have not put down your space ship in the seedier parts and ports of the universe. With its black market shops and the trash piling up in the corners. Did not try to hack the judicial system and slice the databases to give you an A-OKAY rating as honorable citizen again.
You most likely have not even walked into the back alleys of Arccorp Area 18. Have not done illegal crashcar cart derbies there in a Greycat.
There you will find clutter. Dirt. Rust. Detritus - mechanical and biological.
About skills ... mining, repairing .. all those mini-professions (and medical will be part of it, they have just started on that) require an understanding on what you do where and when in game. You do not have to be a paramedic in real life to be a medic in Star Citizen. But it requires more than just hitting a button and waiting for a counter to run down ... with the counter running faster if your "skill level is higher". It will require the right equipment, the right facilities, the right medication. No, you wont be able to do cyberware surgery to replace lost arms in a dirt-field somewhere. Keep in mind that Star Citizen is a game with a variant of permadeath ("die" too many times and you start missing limbs, need cyberware etc. .... "die" a few more times and you will need a replacement character ... an heir).
Which makes the game somewhat inconvenient for the murder hoboes too. They cannot just zerg-suicide into combat dozens of time. Especially as the combat encounter matchmaking algorithmn of the game will most likely select player murder-hoboes to encounter other player murder-hoboes and let THEM duke it out amongst themselves. To each his own.
Scam Citizen. When this fails and fails hard- I for one cant wait to gloat on these forums! I just cant understand how people think that their business model and development approach of the game is feasible - they have been developing mindless assets for the store for half a decade now and little to nothing to show for except broken promises.
Thank you! It's also because of passionate haters like you that Star Citizen keeps thriving!
Wheres the guy who posts twitch viewer numbers. We need to see that.
I guess you mean Babs
and this
Have fun
Twitch , and Space exploration games....
If ..it amaze you that SC is ahead of Elite, Eve and NMS on Twitch,then .. that's good.
And never compare NMS with SC. NMS dev's started working about the same time on the game as Roberts did with SC.
Now go ahead, and make a comparation between the two.
By the time SC releases ( and that's a IF ), NMS will be light years ahead of it. If Sean Murray will keep working on the game as before for the next, 10 years .. well, go figure it out how will that turns out.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
What is more important to me is not how much they have raised in a year, thirsty guys throwing money at used panties pixel ships is not exactly an achievement. What is more important is what CIG have delivered for that money, and the answer in that case is - not a lot.
Some people - maybe the majority these days - may feel that anything above $0 is to much!
Most people - imo and also what pricing models assume - are interested in what they have to pay. Its not the only factor but its a major one. How companies operate as well - again other factors but what they have to pay is usually the big one.
The "No way am I buying an Alexa Dot its just not worth the billions Amazon has spent on it." or "When I heard Activision Blizzard told investors in their quarterly report that Destiny would cost them $500M that made it a no for me." approach is ..... well if this is what drives your purchasing decisions then you will be an outlier in marketing surveys.
People are not bothered about total cost just what it will cost them.
Nor are people bothered about how long something takes to make either just is it any good when its available and how much is it. (And, sadly, the "not interested until its f2p".)
What is more important to me is not how much they have raised in a year, thirsty guys throwing money at used panties pixel ships is not exactly an achievement. What is more important is what CIG have delivered for that money, and the answer in that case is - not a lot.
Some people - maybe the majority these days - may feel that anything above $0 is to much!
Most people - imo and also what pricing models assume - are interested in what they have to pay. Its not the only factor but its a major one. How companies operate as well - again other factors but what they have to pay is usually the big one.
The "No way am I buying an Alexa Dot its just not worth the billions Amazon has spent on it." or "When I heard Activision Blizzard told investors in their quarterly report that Destiny would cost them $500M that made it a no for me." approach is ..... well if this is what drives your purchasing decisions then you will be an outlier in marketing surveys.
People are not bothered about total cost just what it will cost them.
Nor are people bothered about how long something takes to make either just is it any good when its available and how much is it. (And, sadly, the "not interested until its f2p".)
Unfortunately the bolded part isn’t quite true. With regular releases yes, you haven’t spent money yet and it is done when it is done. With crowdfunded projects however, many have already paid and in many, if not all, cases a given release date is used as an incentive for people to spend money. That is the reason most CF projects give an unrealistic date, if it was ‘ready in ten years or more’ most people wouldn’t donate in the first place.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"Indeed the current Alpha do have more features than any single triple-A released by Publishers"
From 2015 until to day ? For a game being developed since 2012, it would be immature to want to compare with games released only in 2019. Compare with games from the decade:
Bayonetta 2
The Witcher 3
Dishonored 2
Doom
Overwatch
Destiny 2
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
Black Desert Online
Assassin’s Creed Odyssey
God of War
Monster Hunter: World
Red Dead Redemption 2
Elder Scrolls Online
Yeah...sure.
The point was not to say no triple-A's have been released in past years... NONE of your list of games, even cumulating all of their features, have current SC Alpha features in 3.8 and that's going to be even more true with 3.9 and 4.0.
Those gameshave in common to have been done by studios with huge ressources (devs, pipelines and cash) at day one and to NOT developing two triple-A at once (Solo + MMO) in space.
So thanks to have confirm my original statement
Other people already quoted you, but only to you know:
I play Elite: Dangerous. Me and a lot of other players hope that SC will be releasead some day because whe are a huge fans of space sims.
However, we have no illusions about how much has already been givem to SC ($300m) and what has already been done by (Alpha and a lot of years of delays): small releases.
"Two triple-A at once (Solo + MMO)": they showed very little of "solo" and very little of "mmo" (for $300m and years of development).
Someday, who knows, sometime in the future, we will meet in game and you will write to me: "I told you, 2 triple A games!": I will smile and thank you for i being wrong. But apparently, it won't be the case in a few years.
Comments
It is the answer to what you "wrote" though.
And, if you think it through, an answer of sorts to what I think you meant - how long will it take to earn enough to e.g. upgrade to a more expensive ship yes? If so why not just come out and say that? If you meant something else again what?
Assuming that is what you were getting at though hence my "And they will have to balance it."
As @Utinni mentioned variable resource is a game element that can/could/might give rise to a "dynamic" rather than a "static" form. Whether it works or not remains to be seen of course. It certainly added to SWG.
2016? Sorry again but ............
And finally, backers in 2030 be like :
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
You are telling me that people are spending $3000 USD on a Javelin but me and a couple goons could buy a starter pack and grind for 8 hours and beat that guy? Who are you trying to fool here..
"More features in Alpha than any released triple-A" means literally nothing. In comparison to what?
Elite Dangerous? Was that even triple A?
No Mans Sky? I sure hope we are not using this as a comparison.
You can't make extremely vague statements with no basis and expect it to mean something. Are you comparing it to World of Warcraft? Lol. Dear lord I hope not.
The game has been in development for just short of a decade.. With well over 300 million dollars invested into the idea. I sure hope it has one hell of an alpha.
You are not fooling anyone with that bs you are spouting. This is pay to win at the highest level, and denying it makes you look foolish..
I can spend 8 seconds on the website looking at the stat differences between 2 fighter classes, the $80 Gladius, and the $800 Hammerhead and tell you that those 2 ships will never compete on the same level. So quit lying to me, and most of all quit lying to yourself.
I wont continue to rain on your parade. Its obvious you are excited for the game, and clearly dedicated to defending it. Who am I to try and take that away from you. If you are able to look past this ridiculous business model and enjoy it, great. I wish you all the best.
@JoeBlober
Take notes from this guy, he shut me down with 3 paragraphs and a video.
The point was not to say no triple-A's have been released in past years... NONE of your list of games, even cumulating all of their features, have current SC Alpha features in 3.8 and that's going to be even more true with 3.9 and 4.0.
Those gameshave in common to have been done by studios with huge ressources (devs, pipelines and cash) at day one and to NOT developing two triple-A at once (Solo + MMO) in space.
So thanks to have confirm my original statement
Tldr: Being an SC/CGI fan is great, being an SC/CGI lunatic isn’t. What you say simply isn’t true. Also, the whole established versus new studio argument, SC isn’t done, it will take more money, more time, you are comparing apples and oranges when you point at other finished games.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
If ..it amaze you that SC is ahead of Elite, Eve and NMS on Twitch,then .. that's good.
And never compare NMS with SC. NMS dev's started working about the same time on the game as Roberts did with SC.
Now go ahead, and make a comparation between the two.
By the time SC releases ( and that's a IF ), NMS will be light years ahead of it. If Sean Murray will keep working on the game as before for the next, 10 years .. well, go figure it out how will that turns out.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Most people - imo and also what pricing models assume - are interested in what they have to pay. Its not the only factor but its a major one. How companies operate as well - again other factors but what they have to pay is usually the big one.
The "No way am I buying an Alexa Dot its just not worth the billions Amazon has spent on it." or "When I heard Activision Blizzard told investors in their quarterly report that Destiny would cost them $500M that made it a no for me." approach is ..... well if this is what drives your purchasing decisions then you will be an outlier in marketing surveys.
People are not bothered about total cost just what it will cost them.
Nor are people bothered about how long something takes to make either just is it any good when its available and how much is it. (And, sadly, the "not interested until its f2p".)
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I play Elite: Dangerous. Me and a lot of other players hope that SC will be releasead some day because whe are a huge fans of space sims.
However, we have no illusions about how much has already been givem to SC ($300m) and what has already been done by (Alpha and a lot of years of delays): small releases.
"Two triple-A at once (Solo + MMO)": they showed very little of "solo" and very little of "mmo" (for $300m and years of development).
See you in space, Commander ! o7
PS: i have 2 T16000m w8ing for SC. ;-)