The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
Or in this case, IS THEIR A GAME ? No prof other than a long newsletter full of fluff, and testing videos.
Disappointed by the Skar redesign but was obviously done so they could use the same human skeleton rig for animation across all races. Having 1 race be different would take too much time and money.
It never ceases to amuse me how lizard people, the females have boobs, but their species does not breast feed.
1. You dont know this. Just because they are lizard people doesnt mean they copy everything from lizards.
2. Its actually not necessary for breast feeders to have big boobs. Humans are the only ones afaik. So since most breast feeders dont have big boobs it follows that a specie that does not breast feed could have big boobs. One does not require the other.
My 8 year old granddaughter could draw just as good.
Work on the game already.
Show us a town or a city, whats solo like, how do you move across zones to get with your group. Infact how do like minded people get together to make up groups ?
Nothing at all against the OP, but it's sad when this type of crap is an update.
Umm is it not possible for character artists to do art assets, while game designers are doing their job at the same time?
Do you think that only one team is allowed to work while all the other teams wait their turn... lol
Also your granddaughter sounds very talented.
I think that when you have a limited budget, are a niche focused game, your time (money) is better spent on content and game play, I mean... especially considering the original premise of this game was "content is king".
I would rather have a game with solid game play and a larger amount of content at release than to have pretty visuals, but it appears VR thinks otherwise as they have spent an enormous amount of time on graphic development iterations.
Now your point is valid IF they release a game with a large amount of content and game play, feature complete. Somehow I doubt that will be the case as we will see it released with a small amount of content and still numerous game play elements lacking (ie pushed back for later release).
A company that puts graphics above their game play is not a company that I think has my best interest as a gamer.
You are concluding that showing new character models means they are putting graphics above gameplay.
The content creators and character graphics artists can work simultaneously - they are working on gameplay and content, art, zone builds etc... at the same time.
No, I am making my comments based on their design actions over the course of the years. They have spent an enormous amount of time doing numerous iterations on graphics while game play and content was lacking. Their lack of content isn't a secret, and their comments about some game play elements, classes, and content would not be released in the first release.
As the other poster mentioned, this is about resources and they have limited resources. The money they spend on talent for graphics, is money not spent on content and game play creation.
Like I said though, you may be correct, but this would mean they have all the funding to produce a large amount of content and game play design. If they release with this lacking, my point will stand.
I really think they are putting far too much attention into graphics. It isn't what this game was about.
They could release with good graphics and poor game play. They could release with very little content. That does not translate in any way to "putting too much attention to graphics". This is the part you are not understanding. For some reason you think that because someone is working on improving the look of the game that it somehow interferes with everything else. That is not how things work.
Are you suggesting they fire their artist because they're churning out graphics too fast for the development of the game?
I'm suggesting that I dont like the overly polished and highly textured look.
It has nothing to do with the timeline.
I'd like to see what they look like on lower settings. This isnt just about the character models. It's the world as well.
But, if funding is as limited as they seem to imply, using more stock unity assets would he beneficial to the survival of the game. Paying people to design these on a limited budget is the problem. Not the time it takes specifically. (Other than time equals money). I'm surprised people dont understand that.
My 8 year old granddaughter could draw just as good.
Work on the game already.
Show us a town or a city, whats solo like, how do you move across zones to get with your group. Infact how do like minded people get together to make up groups ?
Nothing at all against the OP, but it's sad when this type of crap is an update.
Umm is it not possible for character artists to do art assets, while game designers are doing their job at the same time?
Do you think that only one team is allowed to work while all the other teams wait their turn... lol
Also your granddaughter sounds very talented.
I think that when you have a limited budget, are a niche focused game, your time (money) is better spent on content and game play, I mean... especially considering the original premise of this game was "content is king".
I would rather have a game with solid game play and a larger amount of content at release than to have pretty visuals, but it appears VR thinks otherwise as they have spent an enormous amount of time on graphic development iterations.
Now your point is valid IF they release a game with a large amount of content and game play, feature complete. Somehow I doubt that will be the case as we will see it released with a small amount of content and still numerous game play elements lacking (ie pushed back for later release).
A company that puts graphics above their game play is not a company that I think has my best interest as a gamer.
You are concluding that showing new character models means they are putting graphics above gameplay.
The content creators and character graphics artists can work simultaneously - they are working on gameplay and content, art, zone builds etc... at the same time.
No, I am making my comments based on their design actions over the course of the years. They have spent an enormous amount of time doing numerous iterations on graphics while game play and content was lacking. Their lack of content isn't a secret, and their comments about some game play elements, classes, and content would not be released in the first release.
As the other poster mentioned, this is about resources and they have limited resources. The money they spend on talent for graphics, is money not spent on content and game play creation.
Like I said though, you may be correct, but this would mean they have all the funding to produce a large amount of content and game play design. If they release with this lacking, my point will stand.
I really think they are putting far too much attention into graphics. It isn't what this game was about.
They could release with good graphics and poor game play. They could release with very little content. That does not translate in any way to "putting too much attention to graphics". This is the part you are not understanding. For some reason you think that because someone is working on improving the look of the game that it somehow interferes with everything else. That is not how things work.
Are you suggesting they fire their artist because they're churning out graphics too fast for the development of the game?
I'm suggesting that I dont like the overly polished and highly textured look.
It has nothing to do with the timeline.
I'd like to see what they look like on lower settings. This isnt just about the character models. It's the world as well.
But, if funding is as limited as they seem to imply, using more stock unity assets would he beneficial to the survival of the game. Paying people to design these on a limited budget is the problem. Not the time it takes specifically. (Other than time equals money). I'm surprised people dont understand that.
Stock graphics never translate very well to most of any audience and we don't know how much they're paying for this work anyway. Graphics, regardless what we on this site believe, are more important than they use to be.
We want a modern version of EQ, essentially, so what does 'modern' mean? Well, I can tell you people wont wnat EQ graphics...
Well to start,no EQ graphics would be gross but i don't need graphics to be very good,just not EQ1 bad.
I would rather ERASE the word Everquest for all time.EQ was surpassed by FFXI in EVERY single aspect of mmorpg design.Yes i understand many people have fond memories of the Everquest franchise,as do i but that was then,this is now.I want to see games getting better all the time,it is not too much to ask.
I want to see a modern FFXI or better yet,NEW ideas,a game that can stand on it's own two feet instead of relying on EQ for a crutch to gain popularity.
Stuff like OOC.....CC....Alts are all ancient BAD ideas.
If i could use ONE word to describe what i want...EXPECT from a 2020 mmorpg,from Pantheon ,it would be DEPTH,i want to see systems with layers of depth.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Wish they'd concentrate more on content and get to the proper alpha stage already.
Agreed. The character artist needs to start coding that stuff ASAP.
I did not mean that he or they should start coding but was talking about resource management. Imho the visuals should be least of their concern currently. I'm not dissing this game or its development, on the contrary - Pantheon is the one and only mmorpg that I'm currently interested in. Entering alpha would most certainly generate some much needed cash flow and that helps to make this game happen.
Oh yeah, because releasing content with shit visuals/placeholders like CoE has been doing works so much better to please the neverending whiny population of gamers that can't comprehend the first thing about game designing.
Which falls back to what I have been saying about Pantheon, is that it is now a "mainstream" game being designed for the mainstream crowd.
A good game with poor visuals is still a good game, but no amount of visuals will turn a garbage game into a good one.
Hmm, Project Gorgon is reportedly a good game which suffers from poor visuals, you have or are playing it, yes?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wish they'd concentrate more on content and get to the proper alpha stage already.
Agreed. The character artist needs to start coding that stuff ASAP.
I did not mean that he or they should start coding but was talking about resource management. Imho the visuals should be least of their concern currently. I'm not dissing this game or its development, on the contrary - Pantheon is the one and only mmorpg that I'm currently interested in. Entering alpha would most certainly generate some much needed cash flow and that helps to make this game happen.
Oh yeah, because releasing content with shit visuals/placeholders like CoE has been doing works so much better to please the neverending whiny population of gamers that can't comprehend the first thing about game designing.
Which falls back to what I have been saying about Pantheon, is that it is now a "mainstream" game being designed for the mainstream crowd.
A good game with poor visuals is still a good game, but no amount of visuals will turn a garbage game into a good one.
Hmm, Project Gorgon is reportedly a good game which suffers from poor visuals, you have or are playing it, yes?
Random generated loot is a deal breaker for me. It kills the point of progression for me, I can't stand it.
Well to start,no EQ graphics would be gross but i don't need graphics to be very good,just not EQ1 bad.
I would rather ERASE the word Everquest for all time.EQ was surpassed by FFXI in EVERY single aspect of mmorpg design.Yes i understand many people have fond memories of the Everquest franchise,as do i but that was then,this is now.I want to see games getting better all the time,it is not too much to ask.
I want to see a modern FFXI or better yet,NEW ideas,a game that can stand on it's own two feet instead of relying on EQ for a crutch to gain popularity.
Stuff like OOC.....CC....Alts are all ancient BAD ideas.
If i could use ONE word to describe what i want...EXPECT from a 2020 mmorpg,from Pantheon ,it would be DEPTH,i want to see systems with layers of depth.
FFXI was terrible. Then again, I can't stand Asian MMOs with their kiddie characters and arcade style mechanics. From exp chains to people hot swapping entire gear sets constantly during combat... the game was all kinds of garbage. Our guild and friends tried out beta, and moved on pretty quickly.
Modern MMOs are coming out all the time, with "new ideas" (aka gimmicks). That was kind of the point with this game. Not to be like all the garbage out there, but to go back to the concepts that made EQ and elements of Vanguard good games, to not reinvent the wheel, but to take those implementations and polish them.
That is part of my problem with Pantheon, their forums are filled with people who like modern MMOs , or other MMOs, not EQ. So naturally, all their ideas are steering away from what made EQ what it was and we end up with another garbage mainstream MMO that all those demanding as such will play for a bit, then move on to their next MMO to get bored with.
Seems like if one wants a FFXI game, they would go encourage a FFXI project rather than going to a completely different game and then demanding it be like FFXI.
My 8 year old granddaughter could draw just as good.
Work on the game already.
Show us a town or a city, whats solo like, how do you move across zones to get with your group. Infact how do like minded people get together to make up groups ?
Nothing at all against the OP, but it's sad when this type of crap is an update.
Umm is it not possible for character artists to do art assets, while game designers are doing their job at the same time?
Do you think that only one team is allowed to work while all the other teams wait their turn... lol
Also your granddaughter sounds very talented.
I think that when you have a limited budget, are a niche focused game, your time (money) is better spent on content and game play, I mean... especially considering the original premise of this game was "content is king".
I would rather have a game with solid game play and a larger amount of content at release than to have pretty visuals, but it appears VR thinks otherwise as they have spent an enormous amount of time on graphic development iterations.
Now your point is valid IF they release a game with a large amount of content and game play, feature complete. Somehow I doubt that will be the case as we will see it released with a small amount of content and still numerous game play elements lacking (ie pushed back for later release).
A company that puts graphics above their game play is not a company that I think has my best interest as a gamer.
You are concluding that showing new character models means they are putting graphics above gameplay.
The content creators and character graphics artists can work simultaneously - they are working on gameplay and content, art, zone builds etc... at the same time.
No, I am making my comments based on their design actions over the course of the years. They have spent an enormous amount of time doing numerous iterations on graphics while game play and content was lacking. Their lack of content isn't a secret, and their comments about some game play elements, classes, and content would not be released in the first release.
As the other poster mentioned, this is about resources and they have limited resources. The money they spend on talent for graphics, is money not spent on content and game play creation.
Like I said though, you may be correct, but this would mean they have all the funding to produce a large amount of content and game play design. If they release with this lacking, my point will stand.
I really think they are putting far too much attention into graphics. It isn't what this game was about.
They could release with good graphics and poor game play. They could release with very little content. That does not translate in any way to "putting too much attention to graphics". This is the part you are not understanding. For some reason you think that because someone is working on improving the look of the game that it somehow interferes with everything else. That is not how things work.
Are you suggesting they fire their artist because they're churning out graphics too fast for the development of the game?
Graphics are the most expensive element to a games design. Initially, the game was focused on content (ie "Content is king" from their tenants). They started putting far too much attention on the graphics (from models, to ground cover, animations, etc...) because the mainstream crowd started complaining. So, they began to dazzle them, with iteration after iteration of graphic overhauls and redesigns, all while they are still in pre-pre-Alpha after 6 years.
They have a limited budget, finite resources, and so paying for graphical overhauls when they are lacking in content and game play mechanics, is... well... not a wise means of budgeting. The crowd that funded them off the ground, that supported them into this project weren't obsessing over graphics, many were fine with the early stock asset footage as what was important to them was the game play, the mechanics, etc... because this is what is lacking in modern MMOs. They are all pretty games, but shallow console arcade garbage.
The time to have a graphics person is if they are finished with mechanics and now focusing on content creation (assets, zone building, etc..). If they were in that phase, they would not be in pre-pre-Alpha. EQ for instance had Butcher Block up and running, the mechanics were in mostly, and they were starting to focus on the visuals and content creation. They went from Alpha-Beta 1, 2, 3... as they were opening up new content and fleshing things out.
Pantheon doesn't even have its "project" zone finished as they intended, and I would be surprised if they are anywhere near a release level of content. In fact, I think they are likely to end up releasing with very little content with claims they will release over time.
Granted I am speculating, but I think they changed to focus on being a mainstream MMO because it has a much larger return than the original goal. This is why I think most of the EQ like designs were scrapped to provide a more "mainstream friendly" model and why they have spent so much time on graphics and animations.
There are other games out that spent less time on graphics, more on content, have less people and will end up releasing far before Pantheon does (and likely will have better game play, as it concerns being true to traditional concepts).
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Except they weren't in production mode years back.
After the kickstarter failed they lost some people and had to basically go back to the drawing board, remake the team and they said they were going to continue with development but at a much slower pace.
People keep forgetting this. This wasn't a "hit the ground running" project.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Ok. You know best.
That is not what I am saying. It doesn't make sense that they are doing what they are doing when they are where they are. It isn't about "knowing whats best", it is questioning their decisions based on the results of their work, which we should as there are a ton of games out there that never got made, or released poorly.
I don't trust the appeals to authority, been around too long to be that naive and the tech these days is nowhere near as difficult to develop as it was in the past. Also, as I said when you look to other projects which are further along with less people and with less time, it begs the question.
I want to see a modern FFXI or better yet,NEW ideas,a game that can stand on it's own two feet instead of relying on EQ for a crutch to gain popularity.
Are you being serious? Hasn't the Final Fantasy franchise been doing just that for a very long time?
I want to see a modern FFXI or better yet,NEW ideas,a game that can stand on it's own two feet instead of relying on EQ for a crutch to gain popularity.
Are you being serious? Hasn't the Final Fantasy franchise been doing just that for a very long time?
Don't they have a new FF out as well? Seems to me they should be knocking on those guys door rather than coming to a Spirtual EQ successor game and demanding it become FFXI. I mean... it is like going to a Meat market and demanding they provide vegan food. /boggle
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Ok. You know best.
That is not what I am saying. It doesn't make sense that they are doing what they are doing when they are where they are. It isn't about "knowing whats best", it is questioning their decisions based on the results of their work, which we should as there are a ton of games out there that never got made, or released poorly.
I don't trust the appeals to authority, been around too long to be that naive and the tech these days is nowhere near as difficult to develop as it was in the past. Also, as I said when you look to other projects which are further along with less people and with less time, it begs the question.
But it makes perfect sense, don’t confuse crowdfunded development with regular development. The team needs pretties to keep backers interested and entice potential backers to part with their money, grey box test environments don’t do that, this does.
I would even say that these renderings are crucial for the development of the game because without them funds would dry up and there would be no game at all.
Besides, good graphics have never hurt a good game, bad graphics have.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Ok. You know best.
That is not what I am saying. It doesn't make sense that they are doing what they are doing when they are where they are. It isn't about "knowing whats best", it is questioning their decisions based on the results of their work, which we should as there are a ton of games out there that never got made, or released poorly.
I don't trust the appeals to authority, been around too long to be that naive and the tech these days is nowhere near as difficult to develop as it was in the past. Also, as I said when you look to other projects which are further along with less people and with less time, it begs the question.
But it makes perfect sense, don’t confuse crowdfunded development with regular development. The team needs pretties to keep backers interested and entice potential backers to part with their money, grey box test environments don’t do that, this does.
I would even say that these renderings are crucial for the development of the game because without them funds would dry up and there would be no game at all.
Besides, good graphics have never hurt a good game, bad graphics have.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
This game was not supposed to be about graphics. It was supposed to be about game play, content, etc... read the tenants.
They have also said they had all their investing taken care of to release. That they were doing just fine on that.
There are numerous games on this site shown which are very pretty but absolute garbage infested with mainstream game play for inept bored ADD children. Pantheon was funded on the premise it would not be another garbage mainstream game, but one going back to the philosophies to which early EQ and early Vanguard held.
The focus on graphics should be a worry for those who donated under that original premise because it shows that the type of people they are trying to attract are the same people who will play it, consume it, drop it and move on to the next fad MMO.
You are right that having good graphics never hurt a game, but... having good graphics at the cost of good game play does and that is evident by all the garbage that is displayed on this site.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Ok. You know best.
That is not what I am saying. It doesn't make sense that they are doing what they are doing when they are where they are. It isn't about "knowing whats best", it is questioning their decisions based on the results of their work, which we should as there are a ton of games out there that never got made, or released poorly.
I don't trust the appeals to authority, been around too long to be that naive and the tech these days is nowhere near as difficult to develop as it was in the past. Also, as I said when you look to other projects which are further along with less people and with less time, it begs the question.
I would disagree with your assertion that "the tech" is no where near as difficult.
Thing is, the tech changes all of the time, one of the bigger changes in the past year is ECS and how Unity incorporates it to an extent, but with their own flair / limitations.
Here's a good 7 minute primer on the subject, a bit beyond my skills but I can well pick up its benefits and challenges, one being the need for more senior devs to properly implement.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
No prof other than a long newsletter full of fluff, and testing videos.
It has nothing to do with the timeline.
I'd like to see what they look like on lower settings. This isnt just about the character models. It's the world as well.
But, if funding is as limited as they seem to imply, using more stock unity assets would he beneficial to the survival of the game. Paying people to design these on a limited budget is the problem. Not the time it takes specifically. (Other than time equals money). I'm surprised people dont understand that.
We want a modern version of EQ, essentially, so what does 'modern' mean? Well, I can tell you people wont wnat EQ graphics...
Well to start,no EQ graphics would be gross but i don't need graphics to be very good,just not EQ1 bad.
I would rather ERASE the word Everquest for all time.EQ was surpassed by FFXI in EVERY single aspect of mmorpg design.Yes i understand many people have fond memories of the Everquest franchise,as do i but that was then,this is now.I want to see games getting better all the time,it is not too much to ask.
I want to see a modern FFXI or better yet,NEW ideas,a game that can stand on it's own two feet instead of relying on EQ for a crutch to gain popularity.
Stuff like OOC.....CC....Alts are all ancient BAD ideas.
If i could use ONE word to describe what i want...EXPECT from a 2020 mmorpg,from Pantheon ,it would be DEPTH,i want to see systems with layers of depth.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Random generated loot is a deal breaker for me. It kills the point of progression for me, I can't stand it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Are you being serious? Hasn't the Final Fantasy franchise been doing just that for a very long time?
You are getting less credible every time you post.
Besides, good graphics have never hurt a good game, bad graphics have.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Thing is, the tech changes all of the time, one of the bigger changes in the past year is ECS and how Unity incorporates it to an extent, but with their own flair / limitations.
Here's a good 7 minute primer on the subject, a bit beyond my skills but I can well pick up its benefits and challenges, one being the need for more senior devs to properly implement.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon