The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Ok. You know best.
That is not what I am saying. It doesn't make sense that they are doing what they are doing when they are where they are. It isn't about "knowing whats best", it is questioning their decisions based on the results of their work, which we should as there are a ton of games out there that never got made, or released poorly.
I don't trust the appeals to authority, been around too long to be that naive and the tech these days is nowhere near as difficult to develop as it was in the past. Also, as I said when you look to other projects which are further along with less people and with less time, it begs the question.
I would disagree with your assertion that "the tech" is no where near as difficult.
Thing is, the tech changes all of the time, one of the bigger changes in the past year is ECS and how Unity incorporates it to an extent, but with their own flair / limitations.
Here's a good 7 minute primer on the subject, a bit beyond my skills but I can well pick up its benefits and challenges, one being the need for more senior devs to properly implement.
If you understand OOP, that isn't that complicated. In fact, all they are doing is providing some better tools for dealing with some issues that pop up with OOP. That is kind of my point though, today... all the tools exist to make things easier for designers.
Now contrast that with the time when game developers not only had to make the game, but they had to first write all the tools that the game would use, then develop the game, and doing so writing from scratch. That is, you had to know C/C++, database languages, low level languages like Assembly, and have a very thorough understanding of the machine (memory, processor, sound card, video card, etc...). Also keep in mind that memory. processor, video, and storage requirements were very tight and so not only did they have to create everything from scratch, but also had to make sure the code was tight, clean, efficient AND bug free (getting a patch to your game required physical distribution often through magazines and retail stores).
Today, there are a ton of tools available to where a novice and some basic understanding of a language can produce a game.
Now don't get me wrong, I am not trying to down play the work and effort they put in, but they have a lot of advantages today, especially with a suite of tools that Unity and many IDE's provide. Also, you have machines with ample memory, video, and storage capacities as well as online distribution which allows you to instantly send out a fix if there is a bug.
A lot of that also has led to bloated, inefficient design, poorly structured development cycles, etc... basically a lot of bad habits.
My 8 year old granddaughter could draw just as good.
I think you need a pair of glasses dude. You are getting less credible every time you post.
Which , you have to admit, is impressive, in and of itself.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Those early ones were concept art stage.
They are done with that and are doing final models that will be used in final game. The models are set now, the textures and armor assets are the only things that will be tweaked going forward
Like I said, they put all their attention on the looks and feel, over the content and mechanics. 6 years, and the art and models are ready to go? So they are going to all of a sudden put out 50+zones of content and have all the mechanics complete?
Or...
Will they end up releasing a game with much less content, and the promise they will add more over time? Maybe they will pull an SOE, release less over all content, but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content?
They may end up being more EQ than people think? Maybe?
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Those early ones were concept art stage.
They are done with that and are doing final models that will be used in final game. The models are set now, the textures and armor assets are the only things that will be tweaked going forward
Like I said, they put all their attention on the looks and feel, over the content and mechanics. 6 years, and the art and models are ready to go? So they are going to all of a sudden put out 50+zones of content and have all the mechanics complete?
Or...
Will they end up releasing a game with much less content, and the promise they will add more over time? Maybe they will pull an SOE, release less over all content, but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content?
They may end up being more EQ than people think? Maybe?
How do you know they've put art before anything else? Considering the amount of time I'd say art is in about the spot I would expect it when compared to other MMORPGs with realistic schedules.
How do you assess that "they" as a company spent more time or more money on art than they have on development?
One good artist can pump out quite a bit of good looking material in a relatively short period of time.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Ok. You know best.
That is not what I am saying. It doesn't make sense that they are doing what they are doing when they are where they are. It isn't about "knowing whats best", it is questioning their decisions based on the results of their work, which we should as there are a ton of games out there that never got made, or released poorly.
I don't trust the appeals to authority, been around too long to be that naive and the tech these days is nowhere near as difficult to develop as it was in the past. Also, as I said when you look to other projects which are further along with less people and with less time, it begs the question.
But it makes perfect sense, don’t confuse crowdfunded development with regular development. The team needs pretties to keep backers interested and entice potential backers to part with their money, grey box test environments don’t do that, this does.
I would even say that these renderings are crucial for the development of the game because without them funds would dry up and there would be no game at all.
Besides, good graphics have never hurt a good game, bad graphics have.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
This game was not supposed to be about graphics. It was supposed to be about game play, content, etc... read the tenants.
They have also said they had all their investing taken care of to release. That they were doing just fine on that.
There are numerous games on this site shown which are very pretty but absolute garbage infested with mainstream game play for inept bored ADD children. Pantheon was funded on the premise it would not be another garbage mainstream game, but one going back to the philosophies to which early EQ and early Vanguard held.
The focus on graphics should be a worry for those who donated under that original premise because it shows that the type of people they are trying to attract are the same people who will play it, consume it, drop it and move on to the next fad MMO.
You are right that having good graphics never hurt a game, but... having good graphics at the cost of good game play does and that is evident by all the garbage that is displayed on this site.
Who says the game is about graphics? It is ridiculous to imply that a game is "too good looking" in relation to its gameplay, there is no relation or focus. Your deducting skills are failing here.
Furthermore, Pantheon wasn't doing fine before, like, at all. Their Kickstarter failed and they have had some very difficult times financially, nothing was fine. And the longer the game is taking to release, the bigger the financial strain becomes and the harder it becomes to keep your potential customers interested. This isn't some new thing, dozens of crowdfunded games have gone through exactly all of this. They need to show stuff, now.
You are trying really hard to establish a relation that isn't there. It is also based on a lot of personal preference and assumption, certainly not anything fact based.
As for the garbage displayed on this site, it could show me that good games are hard to make, that the entire MMORPG genre is actually shite, that people are never satisfied etc. etc. It could never show me that these games sacrificed good gameplay for graphics though, simply because that can't be proven.
Tldr: I can't relate to what you write at all, neither can I find a shred of evidence that supports what you say in any way, shape or form. The way you present your evidence suggests that you have the facts on your side and you are "right." I wouldn't be so sure.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Those early ones were concept art stage.
They are done with that and are doing final models that will be used in final game. The models are set now, the textures and armor assets are the only things that will be tweaked going forward
Like I said, they put all their attention on the looks and feel, over the content and mechanics. 6 years, and the art and models are ready to go? So they are going to all of a sudden put out 50+zones of content and have all the mechanics complete?
Or...
Will they end up releasing a game with much less content, and the promise they will add more over time? Maybe they will pull an SOE, release less over all content, but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content?
They may end up being more EQ than people think? Maybe?
How do you know they've put art before anything else? Considering the amount of time I'd say art is in about the spot I would expect it when compared to other MMORPGs with realistic schedules.
How do you assess that "they" as a company spent more time or more money on art than they have on development?
One good artist can pump out quite a bit of good looking material in a relatively short period of time.
So you think they are well along with the content in pre-pre-Alpha and are just working on tuning all the art up, making things look pretty?
How many zones would you wager they have implemented? 50% 75%? That is your assumption right? That they are well along with their content and just started to tidy up the game with the graphics now? Were they that far done a while ago when they did the first iteration on all the graphics?
See, I am speculating just as you are. I just think it is odd that they have put a lot of attention into the graphics, demos, etc.. if they haven't produced any of the content. This game will live and die by its content at release. If they don't deliver something akin to the size of EQ at release, they are in trouble.
You may be right, I may be right. I no longer put faith in any company. Seen far too many lie, crash and burn. Results matter, and so far... they are really behind on the time line.
At this point, they should at least be in Beta or just finishing off Alpha.
Who says the game is about graphics? It is ridiculous to imply that a game is "too good looking" in relation to its gameplay, there is no relation or focus. Your deducting skills are failing here.
Furthermore, Pantheon wasn't doing fine before, like, at all. Their Kickstarter failed and they have had some very difficult times financially, nothing was fine. And the longer the game is taking to release, the bigger the financial strain becomes and the harder it becomes to keep your potential customers interested. This isn't some new thing, dozens of crowdfunded games have gone through exactly all of this. They need to show stuff, now.
You are trying really hard to establish a relation that isn't there. It is also based on a lot of personal preference and assumption, certainly not anything fact based.
As for the garbage displayed on this site, it could show me that good games are hard to make, that the entire MMORPG genre is actually shite, that people are never satisfied etc. etc. It could never show me that these games sacrificed good gameplay for graphics though, simply because that can't be proven.
Tldr: I can't relate to what you write at all, neither can I find a shred of evidence that supports what you say in any way, shape or form. The way you present your evidence suggests that you have the facts on your side and you are "right." I wouldn't be so sure.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
You stated they have to have pretties to keep the backers interested and entice potential backers. The people who started the funding for this game didn't care about the graphics, that is the mainstream crowd who now is all of a sudden a fan of a game they all urinated on when it wasn't "pretty".
The kickstarter is not when they actually got moving. The failed the KS because they brought NOTHING to the table other than "plans". So, they went back and built some of the game in Unity, and showed that. Some threw them money even after the KS failed to help them get going and eventually, they got an angel investor who supposedly furnished them the money to build the game to completion (so they say). That combined with the continued funding by supporters has kept them going.
By their own words, they had the funding they needed. They did not need to dazzle new comers and if you read ANY of the tenants, or the discussions Brad and the devs had in the early years, they made it clear they were not going to chase mainstream. That they had a "vision" and were going to hold to it.
As for my speculations. All I can do is look at how long they have been working on this, roughly how many people they have working on it and what they have produced to date, where they are currently at. Most games are nearing release at the 6 year mark. EQ had less people, had to make its own tools and only took 3 years making a game that was innovating. Pantheon has a lot of previous MMOs to pull from, they aren't breaking new ground here.
I don't claim to have direct facts, merely factual information that doesn't add up to a positive view of the situation. You can dismiss it, you can claim I am wrong, but you will have to argue the points, not simply dismiss without attending to the points I do make.
I think it is naive to think that something isn't at least "odd" about this situation.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Those early ones were concept art stage.
They are done with that and are doing final models that will be used in final game. The models are set now, the textures and armor assets are the only things that will be tweaked going forward
Like I said, they put all their attention on the looks and feel, over the content and mechanics. 6 years, and the art and models are ready to go? So they are going to all of a sudden put out 50+zones of content and have all the mechanics complete?
Or...
Will they end up releasing a game with much less content, and the promise they will add more over time? Maybe they will pull an SOE, release less over all content, but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content?
They may end up being more EQ than people think? Maybe?
How do you know they've put art before anything else? Considering the amount of time I'd say art is in about the spot I would expect it when compared to other MMORPGs with realistic schedules.
How do you assess that "they" as a company spent more time or more money on art than they have on development?
One good artist can pump out quite a bit of good looking material in a relatively short period of time.
So you think they are well along with the content in pre-pre-Alpha and are just working on tuning all the art up, making things look pretty?
How many zones would you wager they have implemented? 50% 75%? That is your assumption right? That they are well along with their content and just started to tidy up the game with the graphics now? Were they that far done a while ago when they did the first iteration on all the graphics?
See, I am speculating just as you are. I just think it is odd that they have put a lot of attention into the graphics, demos, etc.. if they haven't produced any of the content. This game will live and die by its content at release. If they don't deliver something akin to the size of EQ at release, they are in trouble.
You may be right, I may be right. I no longer put faith in any company. Seen far too many lie, crash and burn. Results matter, and so far... they are really behind on the time line.
At this point, they should at least be in Beta or just finishing off Alpha.
I'm not speculating anything, I'm using my knowledge of how this stuff works and using my brain to determine that just because they have an artist working on finalizing characters doesn't mean they're not developing content.
You clearly have zero knowledge of how this works. It's time to just give up and stop arguing. You don't know anything about it. So stop spreading false bullshit just because youfeel like you know everything.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Those early ones were concept art stage.
They are done with that and are doing final models that will be used in final game. The models are set now, the textures and armor assets are the only things that will be tweaked going forward
Like I said, they put all their attention on the looks and feel, over the content and mechanics. 6 years, and the art and models are ready to go? So they are going to all of a sudden put out 50+zones of content and have all the mechanics complete?
Or...
Will they end up releasing a game with much less content, and the promise they will add more over time? Maybe they will pull an SOE, release less over all content, but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content?
They may end up being more EQ than people think? Maybe?
I see them going over a lot of mechanics in the streams while showing off the looks and feels. Not so sure why that's bad. No company shows off "everything" they have all at once, they have to trickle it out.
"but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content? "
Eh, for me, all models confirming to the same humanoid skeleton seems like a drastic downgrade from EQ which had ogres, trolls, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and lizardmen (and to a lesser extent barbarians, since it looks like everyones' going to be the same friggin' size in this game).
They look alright, nothing special but then until I see it at lunch these prototype stages just look like manakins to me. And when it comes to races I would not care if they just had humans as long as they planned to have others.
Delete did you make a new account named child of shadows? It's as if someone else hasn't been following Pantheon closely enough but has a lot to say anyway and also has a reading comprehension problem.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
The number of people who think a character artist working on new models somehow takes away from the rest of the teams ability to build the game baffles me.
People seriously have no clue on how games are made.
I think it was quite clear his point was about not having character artists at this stage.
Which I agree with.
Not that those people should be doing something else.
You can't ask the artist stop making the book cover and go edit chapter 3. But you could wait for the proper stage in development to hire him/her.
And then you are saying they need shiny and rainbows to call attention to the project because a proper pipeline wouldn't be as flashy... when that's exactly why KS projects never gets done and the very same people who clicked on agree on your statements have comments on this very forum complaining (and saying) exactly that... so... yeah. Go figure.
They absolutely need character artists at this stage, as well as animators, world builders and everything else.
Pantheon is way past concept stage.
The game is in full production mode so everything is needed.
So, needing all these artists is required because they are in full production mode? So what mode were they in when they started doing these graphical iterations years back? If they have been in full production mode, then why are they still in pre-pre-alpha? Usually late alpha, early Beta is when you begin "production mode" as you have already ironed out your mechanics and are just creating zones and implementing.
You don't do several iterations over the look of a race or spend lots of time on animations/effects when you are in pre-pre-alpha. Part of the reason is that if crap hits the fan and you have to release early than planned, having a functioning system with some needed graphic improvements is far more tolerable than having a pretty looking, but half implemented/broken set of game mechanics.
Those early ones were concept art stage.
They are done with that and are doing final models that will be used in final game. The models are set now, the textures and armor assets are the only things that will be tweaked going forward
Like I said, they put all their attention on the looks and feel, over the content and mechanics. 6 years, and the art and models are ready to go? So they are going to all of a sudden put out 50+zones of content and have all the mechanics complete?
Or...
Will they end up releasing a game with much less content, and the promise they will add more over time? Maybe they will pull an SOE, release less over all content, but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content?
They may end up being more EQ than people think? Maybe?
I see them going over a lot of mechanics in the streams while showing off the looks and feels. Not so sure why that's bad. No company shows off "everything" they have all at once, they have to trickle it out.
"but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content? "
Man what EQ were you playing? Or what server lol.
PoP was a raid expansion, with mostly keyed content and tons of choke point raid encounters. It was designed to slow the progression of players in content. GoD and OoW were one expansion, but there were little babies who threw tantrums (/cough furor/FoH) and threatened to take all his guild to another game if they didn't release them content right away.
So, GoD (the raid zones of the expansion), were split off from OoW and released which was worthless for anyone but the guilds who had finished Plane of Time as the content was geared for progression through OoW (which obviously was not released). So unless you were Time geared, the expansions was quite the handful, which only made it easier for guilds who were already blocking content in PoP to control.
Eh, for me, all models confirming to the same humanoid skeleton seems like a drastic downgrade from EQ which had ogres, trolls, dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and lizardmen (and to a lesser extent barbarians, since it looks like everyones' going to be the same friggin' size in this game).
Yeah, a friend and I were talking about that as well, that the change is kind of like Vanguard had with its "All player characters were a human body with a monster head".
If I had to wager, as someone else already mentioned, I think it is a change for budget/time concerns. All the models use a very similar body structure, so animation could be easily duplicated across the models. Aside from that, I don't see why the Skar was changed, its original model had a much more unique look to the body.
Comments
How do you assess that "they" as a company spent more time or more money on art than they have on development?
One good artist can pump out quite a bit of good looking material in a relatively short period of time.
Furthermore, Pantheon wasn't doing fine before, like, at all. Their Kickstarter failed and they have had some very difficult times financially, nothing was fine. And the longer the game is taking to release, the bigger the financial strain becomes and the harder it becomes to keep your potential customers interested. This isn't some new thing, dozens of crowdfunded games have gone through exactly all of this. They need to show stuff, now.
You are trying really hard to establish a relation that isn't there. It is also based on a lot of personal preference and assumption, certainly not anything fact based.
As for the garbage displayed on this site, it could show me that good games are hard to make, that the entire MMORPG genre is actually shite, that people are never satisfied etc. etc. It could never show me that these games sacrificed good gameplay for graphics though, simply because that can't be proven.
Tldr: I can't relate to what you write at all, neither can I find a shred of evidence that supports what you say in any way, shape or form. The way you present your evidence suggests that you have the facts on your side and you are "right." I wouldn't be so sure.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You clearly have zero knowledge of how this works. It's time to just give up and stop arguing. You don't know anything about it. So stop spreading false bullshit just because you feel like you know everything.
"but attach it to a bunch of raid encounters with locked content and conditions requiring near perfect execution, where the server fighting to spawn choke points will keep people busy for months upon months as they release more content? "
Man what EQ were you playing? Or what server lol.
It's as if someone else hasn't been following Pantheon closely enough but has a lot to say anyway and also has a reading comprehension problem.