I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.
Phew, I thought this was a ten paragraph defence of the flat earthers position! I am just waiting until launch we shall see then.
Why would you make that assumption? I never understood the flat earther attack. Usually, it is made by ignorant people who lack even a rudimentary knowledge in math/physics trying to sound intelligent using logical fallacies, but obviously falling on their face. I put those insults right up there with... children screaming "I hate you" at a parent, or a kid in grammar school ignorantly mouthing off to look cool.
/shrug
It was a joke dude.
Also we don't know how large these zones are. They could be twice the size of everquest or a 5th of the size.
And this isn't a project manned by a large group of people who work non-stop to make it happen.
They don't have incredible funding. Honestly I'd be surprised if it launched but I do feel it "could" launch.
However, the rantings that "we don't know anything about this game" is just that, ranting.
It's someone who must have it NOWWWWWw and can't just acknowledge the game is being worked on and if it launches it could be something to play.
I apologize, but you know how people are, some times it is difficult to tell if it is a joke or an idiot trying to insult.
Size only matters a "bit" if for instance they have 25 zones the size of 50 EQ zones, the work may be slightly reduced due to consistency, but it is still twice the work. So the point still stands on time to create it.
Yes, I understand that, but they have more people than EQ did and have spent twice the time so far. I understood in the first year or so they had limited work being done because people were doing it part time, etc... but as soon as they got the investor and hired on people, those excuses are no longer viable.
They have already stated they have all the funding they need to complete the game.
We do know based on deductive evaluation combined with factual knowledge from comments and what they have shown and stated so far.
Again, EQ innovated a new concept (MMO) with having to create its own tools, and having to master technology Pantheon does not (ie network engineering for instance).
This game is different, and I will tell you why.
When you go to the public for "help" to make a game, you are then responsible to your public. If you were making a game without the public's money, you could tell them "When its done" and bugger off. They however have investors AND people donating. There is a certain responsibility in communicating progress and roadblocks.
So the whole, shut up and chill, it is done when it is done is not really a good tactic by a company who required players to donate. It is one of the reasons people are so leery of crowd funded as they take advantage of the donating parties by acting like they are a privately funded venture. They are not, they need to answer to why they are behind, why it is taking so long and give a general "state of the game" update explaining (they don't have to show all the details) where they are at, where they plan to be, and how long they estimate it will take.
If I were an investor, do you think I would accept them telling me "when it is done"? Nope.. they have to own up to the investors and while the "donators" are not contract holders, treating like they don't matter when they question as such, shows how they really think of the people that supported them.
Nothing to apologize for. When I read your first sentence I was thinking it could be apologizing for flat earthers and then I realized it was a joke. It's difficult to get a person's tone with text.
But my point still stands. Unless you know the background, the history, what went on behind the scenes, you don't know if things were dicey for the first year or the first three years.
And when did they say they had the funding to complete? I seem to remember that was a while ago. Maybe since then they realized they DON'T have the funding.
they aren't saying shut up and chill, they put out regular updates. If players are not satisfied with those they can move on.
And just because they take players' money doesn't mean it will launch. Not sure why this is a difficult thing for players to understand but I think it's their 10 year old self not realizing what they are really putting money toward.
give them money if you want and the game "may" be able to be completed.
As soon as people understand that the sooner they will be able to "chill and relax."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.
Phew, I thought this was a ten paragraph defence of the flat earthers position! I am just waiting until launch we shall see then.
Why would you make that assumption? I never understood the flat earther attack. Usually, it is made by ignorant people who lack even a rudimentary knowledge in math/physics trying to sound intelligent using logical fallacies, but obviously falling on their face. I put those insults right up there with... children screaming "I hate you" at a parent, or a kid in grammar school ignorantly mouthing off to look cool.
/shrug
It was a joke dude.
Also we don't know how large these zones are. They could be twice the size of everquest or a 5th of the size.
And this isn't a project manned by a large group of people who work non-stop to make it happen.
They don't have incredible funding. Honestly I'd be surprised if it launched but I do feel it "could" launch.
However, the rantings that "we don't know anything about this game" is just that, ranting.
It's someone who must have it NOWWWWWw and can't just acknowledge the game is being worked on and if it launches it could be something to play.
I apologize, but you know how people are, some times it is difficult to tell if it is a joke or an idiot trying to insult.
Size only matters a "bit" if for instance they have 25 zones the size of 50 EQ zones, the work may be slightly reduced due to consistency, but it is still twice the work. So the point still stands on time to create it.
Yes, I understand that, but they have more people than EQ did and have spent twice the time so far. I understood in the first year or so they had limited work being done because people were doing it part time, etc... but as soon as they got the investor and hired on people, those excuses are no longer viable.
They have already stated they have all the funding they need to complete the game.
We do know based on deductive evaluation combined with factual knowledge from comments and what they have shown and stated so far.
Again, EQ innovated a new concept (MMO) with having to create its own tools, and having to master technology Pantheon does not (ie network engineering for instance).
This game is different, and I will tell you why.
When you go to the public for "help" to make a game, you are then responsible to your public. If you were making a game without the public's money, you could tell them "When its done" and bugger off. They however have investors AND people donating. There is a certain responsibility in communicating progress and roadblocks.
So the whole, shut up and chill, it is done when it is done is not really a good tactic by a company who required players to donate. It is one of the reasons people are so leery of crowd funded as they take advantage of the donating parties by acting like they are a privately funded venture. They are not, they need to answer to why they are behind, why it is taking so long and give a general "state of the game" update explaining (they don't have to show all the details) where they are at, where they plan to be, and how long they estimate it will take.
If I were an investor, do you think I would accept them telling me "when it is done"? Nope.. they have to own up to the investors and while the "donators" are not contract holders, treating like they don't matter when they question as such, shows how they really think of the people that supported them.
Nothing to apologize for. When I read your first sentence I was thinking it could be apologizing for flat earthers and then I realized it was a joke. It's difficult to get a person's tone with text.
But my point still stands. Unless you know the background, the history, what went on behind the scenes, you don't know if things were dicey for the first year or the first three years.
And when did they say they had the funding to complete? I seem to remember that was a while ago. Maybe since then they realized they DON'T have the funding.
they aren't saying shut up and chill, they put out regular updates. If players are not satisfied with those they can move on.
And just because they take players' money doesn't mean it will launch. Not sure why this is a difficult thing for players to understand but I think it's their 10 year old self not realizing what they are really putting money toward.
give them money if you want and the game "may" be able to be completed.
As soon as people understand that the sooner they will be able to "chill and relax."
I followed the game since it was started. Read the forums over the time as they changed to new formats. Read the chat, even spoke with Brad on forums about various issues.
As for funding, that is part of the point. Maybe they don't have enough, they over stepped? These are questions I am asking, though I will say on the forums there when this comes up form time to time, it is stated that everything is set and they are funded till release.
The updates are meaningless for anyone interested in the over all progression of the project. They could put out models, climbing mechanics, new little tid bits weekly for the next 10 years, but it won't answer the over all question as to where they are at in development and where they think they should be, and hope to be in the future.
There is no contract between the players and VR, but there should be a bit of respect to the transparency of the over all project milestones. So far, as some have pointed out they have been missing some lesser milestones they have shared, and that should be concerning.
There is nothing that would violate the terms by stating that a certain person is unwilling to accept a given position, information, etc....
If your argument is that you use that so you can insult, well... that is a rather stupid argument that admits you want to insult people.
At that point, you have already invalidated your position.
There was no insult - so no position was invalidated.
It is 100% safe to use some instead of a specific name and still get the point across.
My intention is to never take anything to personal level so this takes insults out of the discussion.
Insulting a person doesnt add any value to a discussion - its weaksauce that I stay away from
ok, lets go back through your argument here.
You
said that your response was directly to delete, even though you used
language that implied generally other people with "some".
You claim you do not insult, but you did claim that people who would not accept the video as evidence and then likened them to flat earthers (yes, that is an insult).
Then you back tracked and stated that you use "some" in order to avoid being flagged as a directing a personal attack at someone, which is why you didn't directly refer to Delete.
So, I think we can conclude that you do insult, you simply try to hide it behind language that won't flag the mods and you specifically mean to insult Delete because you admit that your "some" was actually directly referring to him.
Yeah, I think you walked yourself right into a corner on this one, but I am sure you will come up with some other mental gymnastics to avoid admitting it.
I do find your attempt to deny this a bit.. well... expected, after seeing that flat earther comment.
I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.
The argument he makes that "absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence" is a speculation no different than the speculations made based on the current evidence available. He however goes on to try and provide evidence in the defense of the position that everything is going at a proper pace.
So... the game is in pre-pre-Alpha and through the video he shows 10 zones to suggest that there is plenty of content we have already been shown as well as hinting to content that has been mentioned in development, but we have yet to see.
Now certainly this is ALL speculation on both sides, we are taking the information we have and then speculating based on past works and expected results. It is understandable for people to have "faith" that things are going as planned, but it is equally understandable for those who do not. Especially with the track record of failed crowd funded projects.
So, again... Pre-Pre-Alpha, 10 zones we know of? and a few we don't. Of those zones, some are dungeons, a couple are cities, and a few more are outside areas.
First off, 10 zones is roughly 1/5th of the content that was released during EQ. So, if we are talking about raw content, they had better have quite a bit of content behind the curtain or we are looking at another 2-3 more years of development (at the pace they have been going and I seriously doubt they can finish 30+ zones, feature complete them, hit beta, tune, test, final optimize and release within 1 year, not at their current pace).
Now, certainly they could be holding back information on the zones they have been working on, but they have already in the past mentioned working on content they have no shown, so there is nothing loss, and only something to be gained by mentioning various other zones being worked on.
Keep in mind I am not saying they will not finish. I won't go on about how this project is doomed, etc... I am merely pointing out it is taking WAY too long to develop this game when you consider the size of the team, the tools that exist today, and the massive information that has been collected to help decisions made by previous knowledge in the MMO industry.
Now some people have mentioned the game may be close, that we may even see it released by 2023, suggesting 3 more years of development (the same time it took to make all of EQ) is an acceptable development schedule. I disagree, I think 9 years to develop a game is far too much time for a game that likely will be smaller in content size than EQ at release and missing some core elements of various mechanics, classes, etc.. that they say will be added after initial release.
I think my concern is reasonable, but you can dismiss that with arrogance and use a tired old line to bolster your own ego.
Was there a point you were trying to make?
The original point is that more is known about the game than Deleted's claim that "nothing is known"
That is what the point of this thread is.
For some reason you derailed this into a rant, probably because you didnt understand the context.
Did you somehow miss Keylerans "Just for @delete5230" - literally the first thing written
I have a feeling that it still won't change the
minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable
evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
You aren't speaking directly to delete, you are speaking generally about others.
Since my discussions have been the most recent and there has been some... "objection" to them, and this thread, while being directed at Delete, does argue the point progression by the team, my comment was relevant and on point.
Or did you think you could throw out some generalization attack about those who show skepticism on the game and have it go unanswered?
Context, you are missing it.
I dont care if the game gets released in 2021, 3021 or never gets released period, as that is not what I am discussing in this thread.
The entire point was me replying about one person specifically which is the context you keep
By the power of literacy, you are shown to be incorrect. If you were talking about a single person, the subject of the thread, you would have properly used a singular reference, you did not...
You referred to "some" to imply more than delete.
Literacy is a powerful thing.
I use some on purpose as to not violate the terms of service on this specific site - as calling a person out can be misconstrued as personal attack
So I avoid calling people out by name and use some instead, and people can figure out easily who I am talking about.
Inference is a thing.
You can probably see from my other posts that I use "some people" extensively for a reason
There is nothing that would violate the terms by stating that a certain person is unwilling to accept a given position, information, etc....
If your argument is that you use that so you can insult, well... that is a rather stupid argument that admits you want to insult people.
At that point, you have already invalidated your position.
Checks post count. Yep, you are clearly new at this
Insulting people without getting banned is just one of the many advanced techniques of forum PVP.
Don't worry, won't take you long to get the hang of it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.
The argument he makes that "absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence" is a speculation no different than the speculations made based on the current evidence available. He however goes on to try and provide evidence in the defense of the position that everything is going at a proper pace.
So... the game is in pre-pre-Alpha and through the video he shows 10 zones to suggest that there is plenty of content we have already been shown as well as hinting to content that has been mentioned in development, but we have yet to see.
Now certainly this is ALL speculation on both sides, we are taking the information we have and then speculating based on past works and expected results. It is understandable for people to have "faith" that things are going as planned, but it is equally understandable for those who do not. Especially with the track record of failed crowd funded projects.
So, again... Pre-Pre-Alpha, 10 zones we know of? and a few we don't. Of those zones, some are dungeons, a couple are cities, and a few more are outside areas.
First off, 10 zones is roughly 1/5th of the content that was released during EQ. So, if we are talking about raw content, they had better have quite a bit of content behind the curtain or we are looking at another 2-3 more years of development (at the pace they have been going and I seriously doubt they can finish 30+ zones, feature complete them, hit beta, tune, test, final optimize and release within 1 year, not at their current pace).
Now, certainly they could be holding back information on the zones they have been working on, but they have already in the past mentioned working on content they have no shown, so there is nothing loss, and only something to be gained by mentioning various other zones being worked on.
Keep in mind I am not saying they will not finish. I won't go on about how this project is doomed, etc... I am merely pointing out it is taking WAY too long to develop this game when you consider the size of the team, the tools that exist today, and the massive information that has been collected to help decisions made by previous knowledge in the MMO industry.
Now some people have mentioned the game may be close, that we may even see it released by 2023, suggesting 3 more years of development (the same time it took to make all of EQ) is an acceptable development schedule. I disagree, I think 9 years to develop a game is far too much time for a game that likely will be smaller in content size than EQ at release and missing some core elements of various mechanics, classes, etc.. that they say will be added after initial release.
I think my concern is reasonable, but you can dismiss that with arrogance and use a tired old line to bolster your own ego.
Was there a point you were trying to make?
The original point is that more is known about the game than Deleted's claim that "nothing is known"
That is what the point of this thread is.
For some reason you derailed this into a rant, probably because you didnt understand the context.
Did you somehow miss Keylerans "Just for @delete5230" - literally the first thing written
I have a feeling that it still won't change the
minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable
evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
You aren't speaking directly to delete, you are speaking generally about others.
Since my discussions have been the most recent and there has been some... "objection" to them, and this thread, while being directed at Delete, does argue the point progression by the team, my comment was relevant and on point.
Or did you think you could throw out some generalization attack about those who show skepticism on the game and have it go unanswered?
Context, you are missing it.
I dont care if the game gets released in 2021, 3021 or never gets released period, as that is not what I am discussing in this thread.
The entire point was me replying about one person specifically which is the context you keep
By the power of literacy, you are shown to be incorrect. If you were talking about a single person, the subject of the thread, you would have properly used a singular reference, you did not...
You referred to "some" to imply more than delete.
Literacy is a powerful thing.
I use some on purpose as to not violate the terms of service on this specific site - as calling a person out can be misconstrued as personal attack
So I avoid calling people out by name and use some instead, and people can figure out easily who I am talking about.
Inference is a thing.
You can probably see from my other posts that I use "some people" extensively for a reason
There is nothing that would violate the terms by stating that a certain person is unwilling to accept a given position, information, etc....
If your argument is that you use that so you can insult, well... that is a rather stupid argument that admits you want to insult people.
At that point, you have already invalidated your position.
Checks post count. Yep, you are clearly new at this
Insulting people without getting banned is just one of the many advanced techniques of forum PVP.
Don't worry, won't take you long to get the hang of it.
Welcome from those who live under the bridge.
Not new at it, just that I come from an older generation where you didn't get banned for hurting someones feelings. These days, disagreement can get you a warning. Pantheons site is evident of that "modern" touchy feely forum behavior.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Ok, I mean, I can throw together a game with 500 zones by tomorrow if that's all it takes. I'll give you my paypal for support.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Zones are just zones, content is what is in the zones. EQ early on had
fairly small zones and many with little content which I considered
filler zones. They also had some fairly rich content wise zones. Some
games I played after EQ had much larger zones so guess if they divided
these larger zones up then they would magically have more content.
As far as unity goes, I believe it does have a basic multiplayer system built in but unless they added it in recently, you have to have a lot of custom work for a true MMORPG to function.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Zones are just zones, content is what is in the zones. EQ early on had
fairly small zones and many with little content which I considered
filler zones. They also had some fairly rich content wise zones. Some
games I played after EQ had much larger zones so guess if they divided
these larger zones up then they would magically have more content.
As far as unity goes, I believe it does have a basic multiplayer system built in but unless they added it in recently, you have to have a lot of custom work for a true MMORPG to function.
They’ve actually deprecated it rather than working on it and are now developing a new set of networking tools that are still in development.
There are some third party solutions, but like you mentioned here they are not “mmo ready” and still require work to get put in. Basically transport layers with some high level p2p and basic dedicated server setups for things like match games.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Zones are just zones, content is what is in the zones. EQ early on had
fairly small zones and many with little content which I considered
filler zones. They also had some fairly rich content wise zones. Some
games I played after EQ had much larger zones so guess if they divided
these larger zones up then they would magically have more content.
As far as unity goes, I believe it does have a basic multiplayer system built in but unless they added it in recently, you have to have a lot of custom work for a true MMORPG to function.
It didn't occur to you that when I was talking about zones. I meant content as well? Logically there would be no point to refer to a zone without the content be considered in this type of discussion.
I also speculated on the difference between EQ and Pantheon zones as it concerns content within them. The other posters was purposefully ignoring that to drill on their defense.
The point there was the tools already exist, they had to modify them and the Unity team was working with them on that. That is not the same as making everything from scratch.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Ok, I mean, I can throw together a game with 500 zones by tomorrow if that's all it takes. I'll give you my paypal for support.
Thank you, come again.
Yes, because that was the argument I made! You really are brilliant!
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Ok, I mean, I can throw together a game with 500 zones by tomorrow if that's all it takes. I'll give you my paypal for support.
Thank you, come again.
Yes, because that was the argument I made! You really are brilliant!
You don’t have an argument. /shrug have a good day.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Without knowing how big a zone is we cannot know what that equates to. If the zones are larger than we are use then 10 zones could be plenty, if they are very small starter areas then thats not impressive at all. Zones are just the map, the things to do within the zone/map is the content.
Really all that is being argued here is details we dont know. You can hope there is no content made to support an arguement does mean its true. I can hope the game will release next month, does not mean it will happen.
I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
There is nothing that would violate the terms by stating that a certain person is unwilling to accept a given position, information, etc....
If your argument is that you use that so you can insult, well... that is a rather stupid argument that admits you want to insult people.
At that point, you have already invalidated your position.
Checks post count. Yep, you are clearly new at this
Insulting people without getting banned is just one of the many advanced techniques of forum PVP.
Don't worry, won't take you long to get the hang of it.
Welcome from those who live under the bridge.
Not new at it, just that I come from an older generation where you didn't get banned for hurting someones feelings. These days, disagreement can get you a warning. Pantheons site is evident of that "modern" touchy feely forum behavior.
Older generation eh? I put the "boom" in the phrase "OK Boomer"
I'll agree, official forums are challenging places to hold a conversation, too many people (especially the moderators) always think everyone who disagrees with them or doesn't chant the mantra are s.
(I prefer the phrase "Online Provocateur")
Glad you found your way here, keep coming back. Just remember one thing, it's almost never personal.
Well, unless you are @Gdemami, looks like he's back, lets see if I can summon him here, my LOL count has been a little low lately.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Without knowing how big a zone is we cannot know what that equates to. If the zones are larger than we are use then 10 zones could be plenty, if they are very small starter areas then thats not impressive at all. Zones are just the map, the things to do within the zone/map is the content.
Really all that is being argued here is details we dont know. You can hope there is no content made to support an arguement does mean its true. I can hope the game will release next month, does not mean it will happen.
EQ zones were extremely large. So, if 10 zones = near 50 EQ zones, I don't see how that logically works considering the reason they picked zones in the first pace.
I thought it was obvious that when I spoke of zones, I was talking about the zone and all the content within it. As I said, it would make no sense to refer to zones as you describe in the context of the discussion.
There are a lot of things we do know though, which don't aid the position that everything is moving along.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Ok, I mean, I can throw together a game with 500 zones by tomorrow if that's all it takes. I'll give you my paypal for support.
Thank you, come again.
Yes, because that was the argument I made! You really are brilliant!
You don’t have an argument. /shrug have a good day.
I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
There is nothing that would violate the terms by stating that a certain person is unwilling to accept a given position, information, etc....
If your argument is that you use that so you can insult, well... that is a rather stupid argument that admits you want to insult people.
At that point, you have already invalidated your position.
Checks post count. Yep, you are clearly new at this
Insulting people without getting banned is just one of the many advanced techniques of forum PVP.
Don't worry, won't take you long to get the hang of it.
Welcome from those who live under the bridge.
Not new at it, just that I come from an older generation where you didn't get banned for hurting someones feelings. These days, disagreement can get you a warning. Pantheons site is evident of that "modern" touchy feely forum behavior.
Older generation eh? I put the "boom" in the phrase "OK Boomer"
I'll agree, official forums are challenging places to hold a conversation, too many people (especially the moderators) always think everyone who disagrees with them or doesn't chant the mantra are s.
(I prefer the phrase "Online Provocateur")
Glad you found your way here, keep coming back. Just remember one thing, it's almost never personal.
Well, unless you are @Gdemami, looks like he's back, lets see if I can summon him here, my LOL count has been a little low lately.
Cheers
Not boomer.
I don't mind the attacks, but I have found that many people today can't take what they dish.
I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.
Example - flat earthers
There is nothing that would violate the terms by stating that a certain person is unwilling to accept a given position, information, etc....
If your argument is that you use that so you can insult, well... that is a rather stupid argument that admits you want to insult people.
At that point, you have already invalidated your position.
Checks post count. Yep, you are clearly new at this
Insulting people without getting banned is just one of the many advanced techniques of forum PVP.
Don't worry, won't take you long to get the hang of it.
Welcome from those who live under the bridge.
Not new at it, just that I come from an older generation where you didn't get banned for hurting someones feelings. These days, disagreement can get you a warning. Pantheons site is evident of that "modern" touchy feely forum behavior.
Older generation eh? I put the "boom" in the phrase "OK Boomer"
I'll agree, official forums are challenging places to hold a conversation, too many people (especially the moderators) always think everyone who disagrees with them or doesn't chant the mantra are s.
(I prefer the phrase "Online Provocateur")
Glad you found your way here, keep coming back. Just remember one thing, it's almost never personal.
Well, unless you are @Gdemami, looks like he's back, lets see if I can summon him here, my LOL count has been a little low lately.
Cheers
I miss the points @Gdemami gives me with his lols, he isn't back been away since february.
The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.
If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.
And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.
I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.
That is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the points I made. Your first couple of statements could be absolutely correct, even if it turns out that VR has nothing and ends up cancelling the game. That said, none of your evaluation is deductive, it is just wild guessing of defense.
See, your second comment about the zones being more difficult to make only validates my original concern. So, lets run with that.. game is MUCH harder to make because the zones are more complex, yet they are 6 years in and only have 10 zones complete. Ok, guess we can either expect very little content at release, or the game won't be released for many more years.
Except this is exactly what Brad stated at one point in the development, as to why they chose Unity, that it had a set of modular packages and one of the boons was they already had a multiplayer network package ready to go (this is evident by the fact that multiplayer was working already in one of the early videos from back round 2014-2015 time.
The core principals of networking apply, but they had to write net code to have a viable client connection state during a time when this type of gaming was not very common outside of simple mud based connections which didn't have to worry about location information outside of what room a person was in. Unity has this already written. What you are talking about is security, which is nothing more than various encryption and encapsulation protocols.
It really is easy to sit around these days after all the tools, and the tech is widely known and tested, then act like how people know so much, very easy to ride the tails of others who laid the work previously.
Lastly, as for hacking, hacking will still occur with Pantheon, to think otherwise is to show complete ignorance concerning hacking in general.
It’s perfectly relevant. The problem is you don’t want to admit you could be wrong so instead you misdirect.
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Oh yeah, sounds irrelevant to me...
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
For the rest I’ll say this. Brad may have mentioned something about unity networking, I don’t have any information for it against that, but if you knew anything about it you would not be trying to make any claims about it it its viability as an mmo solution. Of course anyone can whip together same basic networking to get started, but i 100% guarantee you if it’s working in a full mmo structure then it’s custom made.
Based on the things you say you don’t have any networking knowledge.
Zones ARE content. /facepalm
You are right, you are far too smart for me.
Without knowing how big a zone is we cannot know what that equates to. If the zones are larger than we are use then 10 zones could be plenty, if they are very small starter areas then thats not impressive at all. Zones are just the map, the things to do within the zone/map is the content.
Really all that is being argued here is details we dont know. You can hope there is no content made to support an arguement does mean its true. I can hope the game will release next month, does not mean it will happen.
EQ zones were extremely large. So, if 10 zones = near 50 EQ zones, I don't see how that logically works considering the reason they picked zones in the first pace.
I thought it was obvious that when I spoke of zones, I was talking about the zone and all the content within it. As I said, it would make no sense to refer to zones as you describe in the context of the discussion.
There are a lot of things we do know though, which don't aid the position that everything is moving along.
Well I admit that I left after the second expansion so maybe the zones got extremely large after that but they were far from what I consider large in early EQ . Many of them were fairly light as far as content went so in early EQ anyway zones were far from equal as far as content went.
Comments
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Insulting people without getting banned is just one of the many advanced techniques of forum PVP.
Don't worry, won't take you long to get the hang of it.
Welcome from those who live under the bridge.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You claim the number of zones is some kind of indicator as to their progress because the EQ team built them faster. I say the amount of zones don’t matter, it’s the amount of content.
Allow me to reiterate one more time. The zones are more difficult to make... because they have more content.
Not new at it, just that I come from an older generation where you didn't get banned for hurting someones feelings. These days, disagreement can get you a warning. Pantheons site is evident of that "modern" touchy feely forum behavior.
Thank you, come again.
Yes, because that was the argument I made! You really are brilliant!
Really all that is being argued here is details we dont know. You can hope there is no content made to support an arguement does mean its true. I can hope the game will release next month, does not mean it will happen.
I'll agree, official forums are challenging places to hold a conversation, too many people (especially the moderators) always think everyone who disagrees with them or doesn't chant the mantra are
(I prefer the phrase "Online Provocateur")
Glad you found your way here, keep coming back. Just remember one thing, it's almost never personal.
Well, unless you are @Gdemami, looks like he's back, lets see if I can summon him here, my LOL count has been a little low lately.
Cheers
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Projection.
@Gdemami
@Gdemami
@Gdemami
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Well I admit that I left after the second expansion so maybe the zones got extremely large after that but they were far from what I consider large in early EQ . Many of them were fairly light as far as content went so in early EQ anyway zones were far from equal as far as content went.
@gdemami what up my dog!