Oof. Can't say I didn't see this coming, however, it really does seem awfully scammy to spend several years in "development" (collect several million dollars) and then release the first playable version of the game (which is essentially an asset flip) juuuuuust before closing.
Seriously? Where did those millions of dollars go? Because you can't convince me a reasonable studio with a similar budget would only develop what was shown.
I'd be pissed if I had spent any money on this steaming pile, much less having spent it during the latest "donation" drive.
Well lets see. The first Crowdfunding happened in 2016, so that's 4 years. The claim I hear people make is that they raised 8 million total.
Looking up Soulbound Studios, They are listed as having anywhere between 11 - 50 employes.
Game Developers makes anywhere between 60 - 120K. Lets average that to 80K a year.
So.. mid run would be 25 employees, making 80K a year, and That's roughly, 2 million a year in payroll alone, and that's with the CEO making a very modest paycheck, of an average developer.
That also does not include things like Office Space, Computers, Software, Electricity, Etc
So yah, it's very viable they simply spent the money on what would be normal operating costs.
They worked at a college on free computers , Did you not see the image of the 5 people at the table. That is a college setup with dell xps's. The split the money 5 ways . The got 1.6mil each.
This was a scam from day one. I also bet that those aren't even their real names.
Don't waste your time.
people shouldn't get away with this.
I meant don't waste your time responding to that guy.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Oof. Can't say I didn't see this coming, however, it really does seem awfully scammy to spend several years in "development" (collect several million dollars) and then release the first playable version of the game (which is essentially an asset flip) juuuuuust before closing.
Seriously? Where did those millions of dollars go? Because you can't convince me a reasonable studio with a similar budget would only develop what was shown.
I'd be pissed if I had spent any money on this steaming pile, much less having spent it during the latest "donation" drive.
Well lets see. The first Crowdfunding happened in 2016, so that's 4 years. The claim I hear people make is that they raised 8 million total.
Looking up Soulbound Studios, They are listed as having anywhere between 11 - 50 employes.
Game Developers makes anywhere between 60 - 120K. Lets average that to 80K a year.
So.. mid run would be 25 employees, making 80K a year, and That's roughly, 2 million a year in payroll alone, and that's with the CEO making a very modest paycheck, of an average developer.
That also does not include things like Office Space, Computers, Software, Electricity, Etc
So yah, it's very viable they simply spent the money on what would be normal operating costs.
They worked at a college on free computers , Did you not see the image of the 5 people at the table. That is a college setup with dell xps's. The split the money 5 ways . The got 1.6mil each.
This was a scam from day one. I also bet that those aren't even their real names.
submitted to the FBI
Are you even certain there were more than one actually in on it? The others at the table could have been class mates he was just showing class project to.
Does anyone else see the irony that even this article title is spelled wrong? This project was a clusterfuck from start to end.
Trust me - I wrote this at midnight my time last night and I'm still so mad I missed that typo before I hit live. The actual article is correct, but the forum post is totally still reflecting the original error.
Does anyone else see the irony that even this article title is spelled wrong? This project was a clusterfuck from start to end.
Trust me - I wrote this at midnight my time last night and I'm still so mad I missed that typo before I hit live. The actual article is correct, but the forum post is totally still reflecting the original error.
Not ragging on you at all. I find it to perfectly fit the situation.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Does anyone else see the irony that even this article title is spelled wrong? This project was a clusterfuck from start to end.
Trust me - I wrote this at midnight my time last night and I'm still so mad I missed that typo before I hit live. The actual article is correct, but the forum post is totally still reflecting the original error.
Not ragging on you at all. I find it to perfectly fit the situation.
Oh I didn't think you were! And I totally get where you were coming from too, just explaining what happened, lol.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's like the eel in the frying pan with its head cut off but the body still moving because it doesn't realize it's dead yet...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's like the eel in the frying pan with its head cut off but the body still moving because it doesn't realize it's dead yet...
He seems to be further along then the original project ever was though, and I bet he didn’t even use 1 million to make it happen.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Sadly, when the "armchair developers" know more than those collecting $8M to roleplay one, this is the result.
It's not all on Caspien though. While he shares the largest portion of blame, those who felt compelled to fight and argue with the "Harbingers" also share it. Especially those who made no investment at all and argued what they had to know was a stupid position, just because they didn't like the Harbinger.
If that was you, look in the mirror. You share culpability here by trying to enable this train to run off the bridge when there was still a chance to get it back on the tracks. You share the blame for $8M lost. You share the blame for people losing their jobs amid a global pandemic. Many of those people have families.
Have a good long look in that mirror and maybe, just maybe learn from this next time. Swallow your pride and understand that what you did was reprehensible.
No, this was mainly the fault of people endlessly shitting all over the game and mocking it every chance they got,... Hummmmm.. Wonder who those people were.
bullshit.
I disagree.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Oof. Can't say I didn't see this coming, however, it really does seem awfully scammy to spend several years in "development" (collect several million dollars) and then release the first playable version of the game (which is essentially an asset flip) juuuuuust before closing.
Seriously? Where did those millions of dollars go? Because you can't convince me a reasonable studio with a similar budget would only develop what was shown.
I'd be pissed if I had spent any money on this steaming pile, much less having spent it during the latest "donation" drive.
Well lets see. The first Crowdfunding happened in 2016, so that's 4 years. The claim I hear people make is that they raised 8 million total.
Looking up Soulbound Studios, They are listed as having anywhere between 11 - 50 employes.
Game Developers makes anywhere between 60 - 120K. Lets average that to 80K a year.
So.. mid run would be 25 employees, making 80K a year, and That's roughly, 2 million a year in payroll alone, and that's with the CEO making a very modest paycheck, of an average developer.
That also does not include things like Office Space, Computers, Software, Electricity, Etc
So yah, it's very viable they simply spent the money on what would be normal operating costs.
They worked at a college on free computers , Did you not see the image of the 5 people at the table. That is a college setup with dell xps's. The split the money 5 ways . The got 1.6mil each.
This was a scam from day one. I also bet that those aren't even their real names.
submitted to the FBI
Unlike some people, who might tell you to not bother.
I feel that if you can prove that this was a fraud, I encourage you to report it and do what you can to see justice done.
You could be correct that would be a grand can of worms and drama to watch unfold.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Oof. Can't say I didn't see this coming, however, it really does seem awfully scammy to spend several years in "development" (collect several million dollars) and then release the first playable version of the game (which is essentially an asset flip) juuuuuust before closing.
Seriously? Where did those millions of dollars go? Because you can't convince me a reasonable studio with a similar budget would only develop what was shown.
I'd be pissed if I had spent any money on this steaming pile, much less having spent it during the latest "donation" drive.
Well lets see. The first Crowdfunding happened in 2016, so that's 4 years. The claim I hear people make is that they raised 8 million total.
Looking up Soulbound Studios, They are listed as having anywhere between 11 - 50 employes.
Game Developers makes anywhere between 60 - 120K. Lets average that to 80K a year.
So.. mid run would be 25 employees, making 80K a year, and That's roughly, 2 million a year in payroll alone, and that's with the CEO making a very modest paycheck, of an average developer.
That also does not include things like Office Space, Computers, Software, Electricity, Etc
So yah, it's very viable they simply spent the money on what would be normal operating costs.
They worked at a college on free computers , Did you not see the image of the 5 people at the table. That is a college setup with dell xps's. The split the money 5 ways . The got 1.6mil each.
This was a scam from day one. I also bet that those aren't even their real names.
submitted to the FBI
Unlike some people, who might tell you to not bother.
I feel that if you can prove that this was a fraud, I encourage you to report it and do what you can to see justice done.
You could be correct that would be a grand can of worms and drama to watch unfold.
He'd need to be a victim for his report to be taken seriously. Officials may investigate third party reports when the operation is ongoing to prevent further victims, but when it's already shut down they aren't going to spend their time unless a victim requests it.
Oof. Can't say I didn't see this coming, however, it really does seem awfully scammy to spend several years in "development" (collect several million dollars) and then release the first playable version of the game (which is essentially an asset flip) juuuuuust before closing.
Seriously? Where did those millions of dollars go? Because you can't convince me a reasonable studio with a similar budget would only develop what was shown.
I'd be pissed if I had spent any money on this steaming pile, much less having spent it during the latest "donation" drive.
Well lets see. The first Crowdfunding happened in 2016, so that's 4 years. The claim I hear people make is that they raised 8 million total.
Looking up Soulbound Studios, They are listed as having anywhere between 11 - 50 employes.
Game Developers makes anywhere between 60 - 120K. Lets average that to 80K a year.
So.. mid run would be 25 employees, making 80K a year, and That's roughly, 2 million a year in payroll alone, and that's with the CEO making a very modest paycheck, of an average developer.
That also does not include things like Office Space, Computers, Software, Electricity, Etc
So yah, it's very viable they simply spent the money on what would be normal operating costs.
They worked at a college on free computers , Did you not see the image of the 5 people at the table. That is a college setup with dell xps's. The split the money 5 ways . The got 1.6mil each.
This was a scam from day one. I also bet that those aren't even their real names.
submitted to the FBI
Unlike some people, who might tell you to not bother.
I feel that if you can prove that this was a fraud, I encourage you to report it and do what you can to see justice done.
You could be correct that would be a grand can of worms and drama to watch unfold.
He'd need to be a victim for his report to be taken seriously. Officials may investigate third party reports when the operation is ongoing to prevent further victims, but when it's already shut down they aren't going to spend their time unless a victim requests it.
If they were a backer, that would make them a direct victim, even if they were not a backer, if they had enough evidence to reasonably support their claims of fraud I am sure there would be no shortage of disgruntled backers that would be glad to stand in as the victim just to file the claim.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Another interesting post from one of the Massively Staff. Note the bold part below. These enablers in the community really need a mirror.
------
Andrew Ross
I remember doing a long-form article throwing cold water on this one very soon after the Kickstarter ended, and I was a backer ($40). Admittedly, one thing they did right was the mini-events with browser games that were supposed to effect not only the game’s lore but some of the starting player kingdoms as well. It’s more than we’ve seen from some other studios.
The note that the earliest backers weren’t the direct combat types but diplomacy types was a good catch, but clearly too little to late.
And the overall tone of this update is pretty standard for this guy. I talked to various bloggers who tried getting ahold of almost anyone at the studio at various times, and basically if you weren’t 100% on board with them, they didn’t want to talk to press.
To be honest, I feel streamers/influencers have made this worse since studios can literally feed the fanboys indirectly with small teases that turn into 20 minutes videos, but that bubble of “we’re doing good” doesn’t seem to be helping any games. I can think of one right now that specifically doesn’t allow negative commenting, but because their community at least puts together numerical evidence and polls of mechanics and player preferences, the team’s doing better.
…but not giving that community any direct thanks because it would show that the company itself isn’t capable of handling any of that data or testing itself.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This is going to be remembered as the Fyre Festival of MMORPGs. It was a mismanaged trainwreck from the beginning built on empty promises and selling Snake Oil.
This is going to be remembered as the Fyre Festival of MMORPGs. It was a mismanaged trainwreck from the beginning built on empty promises and selling Snake Oil.
They had snake oil?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
This is going to be remembered as the Fyre Festival of MMORPGs. It was a mismanaged trainwreck from the beginning built on empty promises and selling Snake Oil.
With "useful idiots" shilling for it. Just like Fyre Festival and their celebrities.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What about the other indie games in development? I wonder which one will be next? I think people are smoking crack if they think they can build a MMO these days with just a small team.
What about the other indie games in development? I wonder which one will be next? I think people are smoking crack if they think they can build a MMO these days with just a small team.
Depends on the scope of the game
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What about the other indie games in development? I wonder which one will be next? I think people are smoking crack if they think they can build a MMO these days with just a small team.
I honestly think it can be done (this is literally an article idea I've been bouncing around in my head for a while now). But it needs to be realistic. It needs to have attainable goals, and the timeline needs to be such that it can be both flexible when it needs to be, but firm when it comes to important milestones.
I think an indie team can build something that players will want to play - TemTem is showing that now, but I think fully Crowdfunding indie MMOs might (hopefully) start going more and more by the wayside.
That being said, we just reported on another one this morning - so maybe not.
For any of the staff that are out of a job, we’re hiring several full-time positions, and we support remote (we’ve been fully remote/work from home since our foundation): http://stormhavenstudios.com/careers
What about the other indie games in development? I wonder which one will be next? I think people are smoking crack if they think they can build a MMO these days with just a small team.
I honestly think it can be done (this is literally an article idea I've been bouncing around in my head for a while now). But it needs to be realistic. It needs to have attainable goals, and the timeline needs to be such that it can be both flexible when it needs to be, but firm when it comes to important milestones.
I think an indie team can build something that players will want to play - TemTem is showing that now, but I think fully Crowdfunding indie MMOs might (hopefully) start going more and more by the wayside.
That being said, we just reported on another one this morning - so maybe not.
I guess its a bit late in the day to ask for a headline typo correction...Chr not Crh?
Pedantry aside I thought Albion Online and SotA were built with a small team? Not roaring successes but they did launch.
What about the other indie games in development? I wonder which one will be next? I think people are smoking crack if they think they can build a MMO these days with just a small team.
I honestly think it can be done (this is literally an article idea I've been bouncing around in my head for a while now). But it needs to be realistic. It needs to have attainable goals, and the timeline needs to be such that it can be both flexible when it needs to be, but firm when it comes to important milestones.
I think an indie team can build something that players will want to play - TemTem is showing that now, but I think fully Crowdfunding indie MMOs might (hopefully) start going more and more by the wayside.
That being said, we just reported on another one this morning - so maybe not.
I guess its a bit late in the day to ask for a headline typo correction...Chr not Crh?
Pedantry aside I thought Albion Online and SotA were built with a small team? Not roaring successes but they did launch.
It honestly should have been fixed already - our system needed to refetch the page. I sort of joked about it here:
For any of the staff that are out of a job, we’re hiring several full-time positions, and we support remote (we’ve been fully remote/work from home since our foundation): http://stormhavenstudios.com/careers
Whatever you do, don't hire anyone from the "web" team.
Their "failure" to deliver the Settlers of Elyria event early last fall might actually have been the single greatest contributor to the studio's financial collapse.
One can only wonder how things might have been different if SoE had successfully launched back in October as planned.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
3-4 years ago MMORPG.COM pushed this game with wall to wall coverage of art and pictures for 1-2 years. So this forum and site's writers added to the hype by posting drawings on their front page articles for 1-2 years straight when the game was just vaporware.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/34923/bordwealls-mmo-project-a-bright-light-as-we-tumble-into-the-abyss
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. It's like the eel in the frying pan with its head cut off but the body still moving because it doesn't realize it's dead yet...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I feel that if you can prove that this was a fraud, I encourage you to report it and do what you can to see justice done.
You could be correct that would be a grand can of worms and drama to watch unfold.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
------
I remember doing a long-form article throwing cold water on this one very soon after the Kickstarter ended, and I was a backer ($40). Admittedly, one thing they did right was the mini-events with browser games that were supposed to effect not only the game’s lore but some of the starting player kingdoms as well. It’s more than we’ve seen from some other studios.
The note that the earliest backers weren’t the direct combat types but diplomacy types was a good catch, but clearly too little to late.
And the overall tone of this update is pretty standard for this guy. I talked to various bloggers who tried getting ahold of almost anyone at the studio at various times, and basically if you weren’t 100% on board with them, they didn’t want to talk to press.
To be honest, I feel streamers/influencers have made this worse since studios can literally feed the fanboys indirectly with small teases that turn into 20 minutes videos, but that bubble of “we’re doing good” doesn’t seem to be helping any games. I can think of one right now that specifically doesn’t allow negative commenting, but because their community at least puts together numerical evidence and polls of mechanics and player preferences, the team’s doing better.
…but not giving that community any direct thanks because it would show that the company itself isn’t capable of handling any of that data or testing itself.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I think an indie team can build something that players will want to play - TemTem is showing that now, but I think fully Crowdfunding indie MMOs might (hopefully) start going more and more by the wayside.
That being said, we just reported on another one this morning - so maybe not.
For any of the staff that are out of a job, we’re hiring several full-time positions, and we support remote (we’ve been fully remote/work from home since our foundation): http://stormhavenstudios.com/careers
Pedantry aside I thought Albion Online and SotA were built with a small team? Not roaring successes but they did launch.
https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7580970/#Comment_7580970
Their "failure" to deliver the Settlers of Elyria event early last fall might actually have been the single greatest contributor to the studio's financial collapse.
One can only wonder how things might have been different if SoE had successfully launched back in October as planned.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon