I'm not bitter about it. I just enjoyed playing EQ2 in 2014 far more than I enjoyed playing WoW in 2010/2011 & 2015. Both times I quit playing WoW, I got bored before I reached max level and End Game. I didn't get bored playing EQ2 until after I had reached max lvl with 2 characters (Paladin & Troubadour). Had also played several other classes in EQ2 and did professions on most of them in order to craft different kinds of Fabled gear. Fabled = Epic in WoW.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
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All I know is that I enjoyed playing EQ2 more than I enjoyed playing WoW. A lot more. But I wouldn't play either of them now. Neverwinter held my attention for a few years, but I've quit that as well. I'm pretty much 100% certain I will never go back.
Started playing DDO recently. Never played it past lvl 3 b4, and some of its systems and features are interesting. But I can say almost without a doubt that I won't keep playing it after I reach max level. Raids don't interest me.
I'll probably try Magic Legends after its released. But I very much doubt I'll play it for long. Pantheon seems like it might be fun to play if it ever gets released. But none of those or any other games I've heard about, that might be launched in the near future, are the sort of MMORPG that I really want to play. Needless to say that none of the games currently available to play are my ideal MMORPG.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I'm not bitter about it. I just enjoyed playing EQ2 in 2014 far more than I enjoyed playing WoW in 2010/2011 & 2015. Both times I quit playing WoW, I got bored before I reached max level and End Game. I didn't get bored playing EQ2 until after I had reached max lvl with 2 characters (Paladin & Troubadour). Had also played several other classes in EQ2 and did professions on most of them in order to craft different kinds of Fabled gear. Fabled = Epic in WoW.
I played both. My EQ2 sub lasted 1 month and I played WOW on and off until Cata. I chose wisely.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
When convenience and realism collide, I say fuck real life. Excessive attention to detail makes for bad gameplay (caugh Rockstar caugh).
I'm just to this point in the thread, so my apologies if this has been addressed later on
I agree 100%, but the sticky wicket is where that point of "too much realism" is for each individual player resides. While RDR 2's "pick up every little item separately" was fun at first, I saw many players start complaining after 20+ hours of doing this. I would too, if I played the game (which I didn't).
The biggest factor for me is game time. I mean "time passing within the game world." It only takes a couple of real time hours for a whole day to pass in game time. I don't want to cook my meals, go to the bathroom, wash my face and hands, don my armor and take it off before sleeping, or other mundane tasks that are "real", but invade on the game day that flies by so quickly.
I liked EQ's food and water mechanic: You had to carry it, but did not HAVE to sit down, cook it, and then eat it 3 times a day. It took up precious bag space, and was needed (you would get debuffs if not present), but did not hinder my "time in game."
I struggle with carry weight and bag space all the time. I'm a hoarder of the worst kind. I never know when something looted will be important later on, and I'm not one to throw away a few coppers. However, I want this to matter. I'd just like a better system to implement it. Walking around with 6 backpacks on my person is as silly as no back with no limits. Daggaerfall had wagons purchasable to help carry loot. Would it be so tough to implement wagons and mules or oxen into an MMORPG?
Ammo is another factor that players disagree on. I like it, many don't. It makes one think if their Ranger can go someplace without first stopping at the local bowyer's or making their own arrows. It makes players think and plan ahead, which many dislike with a passion
I am fully aware of the delicate "Convenience vs Realism" balance. I'm in the middle, myself, though maybe more on the "realism" side. But that doesn't mean every game needs to be this way. I'm not ever going to play every game, ever
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Immersion is not about realism it's about world self-consistency.
Chat channels with political talk or which pizza is best break my immersion. As do tuxedos and bunny suits, motorcycles in medieval settings and in-game holidays tied to Halloween or any other RL holiday.
As to actual MMO mechanics I want to spend my time doing things that have enjoyable and engaging mechanics. I don't want to pay bills or do tax returns in my MMOs. All of RL's mundanities can screw right off and stay away from my games.
Which is why I HATE cash shops. "Oh, you want my real life credit card to get this?" See you later, immersion
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Reaching the end of the first page, the biggest problem I see is the MMO genre. What works in single player games often is awful in massively multiplayer games.
In Minecraft (single player), I sleep and the night whizzes by. That can't happen in MMOs, as time cannot pass differently for each individual player. So, do we sit there for maybe 15-30 minutes waiting for night to pass? Not a fun mechanic, in my opinion.
You have to consider thousands of players playing at the same time when you try to add "realism" to MMOs. Some won't matter, others will
Again, I'm more on the realism side, but you have to remember "Massively Multiplayer."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
A good example in Skyrim of realism that never gets old is the flight of arrows and other projectiles. It is so much better than the projectiles in other RPGs that behave like laser guided mini missiles.
Missed shots always bug me. Not that I missed, but that they seem to "disappear."
A group of mobs. I aim and take a shot. I miss my target but where does that arrow go? Did it miss to the left, where another mob stands? Did it go over the mob, where more mobs stand behind my target?
Missed shots are as laughable in computer games as "laser guided missiles", for me
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I want an MMORPG where every choice and action a player character makes
can effect or change the game world. From the most minimal, mundane,
and superficial of situations to the most dramatic and earth-shaking of
events.
Why? Think of the thousands of players ALL "changing the world." That's much, much too chaotic for my tastes
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Are you saying that Game Developers and Game Masters have no power or ability to subtly change the course of a game world (and even individual player actions) through built-in penalties, limitations, and consequences, as well as periodic events? NPCs, mobs, and Game Master-controlled characters (such as deities perhaps) can also be used to maintain balance and keep an online world from spiraling totally out of control.
Not only that, Game Developers can actually <gasp> hire professional gamers and role-players to help maintain order and balance in a persistent, dynamic, virtual world.
Not if "EVERY action changes the world."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I've always been a supporter of a Justice system that has no work-arounds or escape clauses, something we have never seen in any game. Such things like "prison, with escapes" don't work.
I agree. Those players aren't in it for RP. They "play to crush" and will find a way if one's available. GMs cannot keep up with them, not even close. The players need the tools, that work, to stop them on a permanent basis, by giving them losses that they feel harshly enough that they will stop.
Keep one thing in mind, CCP found out those playing to crush were a substantial portion of their paying customers so it is a neverending task to maintain a proper balance.
Also, most tools devs have tried to put in players hands end up being better manipulated (or circumvented) by those who they were designed to control vs those they were intended to help.
I don't consider Eve in the same category as MMORPGs in that it's more of a battleship sort of game. It's hard comparing Eve to games with worlds and characters, and systems that (to one degree or another) simulate a world of interacting life.
I've said many times, I've not seen an MMORPG that allowed open PvP that didn't also have workarounds for any penalties. Just up post, I mentioned "prison, with escapes." That stuff does nothing to stop rampant PKing.
So we are in agreement here. But I do think it's possible.
I'm not bitter about it. I just enjoyed playing EQ2 in 2014 far more than I enjoyed playing WoW in 2010/2011 & 2015. Both times I quit playing WoW, I got bored before I reached max level and End Game. I didn't get bored playing EQ2 until after I had reached max lvl with 2 characters (Paladin & Troubadour). Had also played several other classes in EQ2 and did professions on most of them in order to craft different kinds of Fabled gear. Fabled = Epic in WoW.
I played both. My EQ2 sub lasted 1 month and I played WOW on and off until Cata. I chose wisely.
You played WOW during its heyday, many point to the Cata release as the point where the game design really changed and not really for the better.
I initially played in the bvb Vanilla years, leaving just as BC was coming out.
I returned to play Cata at launch but quit after the first month as the game had clearly continued to go in a direction I didn't enjoy.
I did try EQ2 around 2012 but it clearly was a shell of its former design, with many features updated to more modern conveniences, rather just to be more like WOW really.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All I know is that I enjoyed playing EQ2 more than I enjoyed playing WoW.
2004 to 2008 were the golden years of that mmorpg. It would not be hard to write volumes of how much better it was at being an actual "mmorpg" than wow and all its clones combined. I mean wow is still playing catch up to it's original release, party sync 15 years later really? you mean mentoring in EQ2 available only at launch 16 years ago! Housing...
When wow launched i scooted over there and went straight back to EQ2 within a month. No comparison, QUALITY (EQ2) or JOKE (WoW), people love McDonald's i get that. Sad part is the Fisher Price mmo Vanilla/Classic is the best ting we got now, thanks to it and when i jumped into classic it felt freaking hard, lol, but back in 2004 it was at first an amazing feeling that an mmorpg could be so stupid easy, haha.
Other sad reality is Retail omg such a face roll but i dunno it's pretty good for questing i find.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
I'm not bitter about it. I just enjoyed playing EQ2 in 2014 far more than I enjoyed playing WoW in 2010/2011 & 2015. Both times I quit playing WoW, I got bored before I reached max level and End Game. I didn't get bored playing EQ2 until after I had reached max lvl with 2 characters (Paladin & Troubadour). Had also played several other classes in EQ2 and did professions on most of them in order to craft different kinds of Fabled gear. Fabled = Epic in WoW.
I played both. My EQ2 sub lasted 1 month and I played WOW on and off until Cata. I chose wisely.
You played WOW during its heyday, many point to the Cata release as the point where the game design really changed and not really for the better.
I initially played in the bvb Vanilla years, leaving just as BC was coming out.
I returned to play Cata at launch but quit after the first month as the game had clearly continued to go in a direction I didn't enjoy.
I did try EQ2 around 2012 but it clearly was a shell of its former design, with many features updated to more modern conveniences, rather just to be more like WOW really.
I gave both EQ2 and WOW a fair shot - played both at release so even concurrently for a bit which is unusual for me as I'm a serial monommogamist EQ2 was prettier and I actually preferred its less cartoonish art style but it just didn't click with me and WOW did.
Yeah Cataclysm did me in. I particularly didn't like the skill changes and super-homogenization of the game where any class with any spec was an AOE mage tank while soloing.
I've gone back 3 or 4 times since but have never lasted more than a month or two.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm curious. Which MMORPG has prison with the possibility of escaping or being broken out?
I don't recall. Any MMORPG that does have prison, if you look, will have escapes too. Someone just recently mentioned a game on this forum had prison, and when I checked it out I found they had escapes. One thing about the escapes that I've noticed is that they are known and easily accomplished. In effect, they are game play for those sent to prison, and offer absolutely no downside to PKing.
I've seen prison brought up many times by PvPers as a deterrent, and a reason to allow PKing in a game. It's that further look that reveals the workaround that escapes provide.
One thing you can count on, so far in MMORPG design, is that games made by PvP oriented Devs will always make whatever "justice" they apply in order to sooth the masses and get sales, will always have these sorts of "outs."
UO went so far as to put a "stat loss" on PKers if they were caught and killed. That sounded good, except that they had two "outs." One: "blue" healer friends didn't go "gray" for doing it, so players could not stop them from healing the "red" PKers, making them much harder to kill. If they attacked the "blue" healers, they went gray themselves and were attacked, killed, and looted by the rest of the PKer's "blue" friends. Two: The stat loss didn't take affect until the player resurrected. So they simply played as a ghost, using macros to stay logged in, until their "red" status wore off (Hours of game play and a few days RL time).
Always the outs, because the Devs don't want to hurt their fellow PvPers. But they do want to convince the other players they are "trying" to help them, because they want their money and world population.
In any case, you would not have to play a game like I have described. No one would force you to do so.
That being said, how exactly do you think other people would potentially ruin your gaming experience if you did choose to play such a game? Can you give me some examples?
Kill Me, Destroy what I built, Kill all the mobs in the area to stop respawns, Poison the water, divert water flow into circles to turn lush areas into deserts... and that is just off the top of my head.. and simple expected stuff.. .. I mean really.. when you give people total the control, the ways and means they will be able to ass rape you, is as open as the rules will let them be..
Which is why a lot of games don't make open rules like that..
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I don't find eating and drinking and sleeping and encumbrance to be immersive. Actually I find those to pull me out of immersion.
what needed me is the challenge my character is facing,t quest he's on,t fight he's in, the puzzle he needs to solve, the choices he makes. Those issues as mentioned above pull me out of that, to get me to think of real-world activities I don't like them in the game I don't find them immersive at all I find them the opposite.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I don't find eating and drinking and sleeping and encumbrance to be immersive. Actually I find those to pull me out of immersion.
what needed me is the challenge my character is facing,t quest he's on,t fight he's in, the puzzle he needs to solve, the choices he makes. Those issues as mentioned above pull me out of that, to get me to think of real-world activities I don't like them in the game I don't find them immersive at all I find them the opposite.
Which goes back to something I said earlier, some people find "immersion" in the major activities of a quest or encounter and some people find the world itself to drive immersion.
What drives me out of immersion is going to an inn and them advertising "food and drink or a room" and me as a player never have a reason to want either. Or fighting non-stop in a dungeon and never needing to rest.
One of my BEST and most fun times in Skyrim was me fighting in a dungeon mod (so I wasn't familiar with it) being surrounded by draugr and suddenly exhaustion from the Bethesda "needs" mod (whatever it was called) hit me.
I think I moved slower and fatigue did not generate as quickly. I suddenly found myself fighting for my life. And won but barely.
that was fun. I wish more games would incorporate a needs system "option."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Regarding EQ2: yes, the game had *much* more demanding hardware requirements than WoW did. You needed a beefy rig to play it. WoW did not. This did indeed cause many people to pass on EQ2. It was *a* factor, but only one of many.
I don't find eating and drinking and sleeping and encumbrance to be immersive. Actually I find those to pull me out of immersion.
A great example of that would be Fallout NV survival mode.
You had to stay hydrated, eat, ect... I was really looking forward to it, turns out it worked far better in a "live" mode like F76 but anyway...
This hard core mode sounded so awesome, but in reality, it was only an annoying chore. The survival was really about could anyone survive this unfathomable annoyance. There was no challenge, no tension, no suspense, nothing other than drink water every 5 minutes.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
I've just spent a good couple of minutes trying to figure out how I would pronounce this term, but I love it!
mono-m-m-o-ga-mist .......too wordy
mon-om-mog-a-mist .........getting closer to something I could pronounce, but still, far too many "m"s in there!
Back on topic.
The definition of immersion that I've always subscribed to is that you are immersed when you start thinking as your character. An example:
"I'm going back into town to sell my junk" - immersed, as you are thinking of your character in the first person.
"I'm taking my character into town to sell my junk" - not-immersed, because you are thinking of your character as external to yourself.
The more you think of your character as being you, the more blended you become, then the more immersed you are. Obviously, in our minds we don't bother spelling things out and we always seek shortcuts, so I will often say/think "I'm going to....." a lot, but when I think that, I'm always thinking of my character as something separate to myself, even if Im referring to it in the first person.
@Amathe's example of the fly landing on his back is the perfect example of immersion - he had blended with his character perfectly to the point where stuff in game and stuff in real life both felt like they were happening to the same person.
The other definitions of immersion that I've seen don't really cut it for me. Mostly when people talk about immersion, they're actually talking about attention or enjoyment. When I hear people say things like "I was so immersed in the game that I completely lost track of time", what they mean is that the game took all of their attention. They might have been immersed as well, but they also might not of. Similarly, when I hear people say "I was so immersed in that game that I didnt want to stop playing", again, usually what they mean is that they were having a lot of fun and didnt want it to stop.
Going back earlier to my discussion on fast travel....
It's a pure design decision. I have always found that without fast travel, you gain a better appreciation for the world because you are forced to confront the scale of it. With fast travel, it always makes the world seem much smaller and you become much more focused on the gameplay.
I'm happy with either, but it all comes down to the world itself and the goals of the game. Each of us will have different preferences, often varying between games, so its important that such a design decision makes sense to that game.
In Skyrim, for example, I found the world to be dull and boring and there was nothing to motivate me to explore. If Skyrim didn't have fast travel, then I'd have played it once and then never played it again.
In LotRO, on the other hand, I found the world to be beautifully created with a lot of diversity. Combined with the fact that it was massively multiplayer, I had a strong motivation to want to feel like I was in a virtual world. Thus, I appreciated the lack of fast travel in most of the world. That design decision is just one of the many factors that helped create an amazing community. Then later in the games life when they added fast travel to many more places, along with porting into dungeons, it really diminished the feeling of being in a virtual world.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
In Skyrim, for example, I found the world to be dull and boring and there was nothing to motivate me to explore. If Skyrim didn't have fast travel, then I'd have played it once and then never played it again.
Talk about difference in taste!
Last week I was playing skyrim, walking through it and thinking "my god, how beautiful this world is they did such an amazing job."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Going back earlier to my discussion on fast travel....
It's a pure design decision. I have always found that without fast travel, you gain a better appreciation for the world because you are forced to confront the scale of it. With fast travel, it always makes the world seem much smaller and you become much more focused on the gameplay.
I'm happy with either, but it all comes down to the world itself and the goals of the game. Each of us will have different preferences, often varying between games, so its important that such a design decision makes sense to that game.
In Skyrim, for example, I found the world to be dull and boring and there was nothing to motivate me to explore. If Skyrim didn't have fast travel, then I'd have played it once and then never played it again.
In LotRO, on the other hand, I found the world to be beautifully created with a lot of diversity. Combined with the fact that it was massively multiplayer, I had a strong motivation to want to feel like I was in a virtual world. Thus, I appreciated the lack of fast travel in most of the world. That design decision is just one of the many factors that helped create an amazing community. Then later in the games life when they added fast travel to many more places, along with porting into dungeons, it really diminished the feeling of being in a virtual world.
The world really needs to be interesting. I like it best when, on my way to a place, I'm constantly noticing things that make me want to go back there. That could be animals, plants, ruins, caves, anything that looks suspicious, etc. But of course, if none of that ever means anything that interest would be lost.
I've always thought that it's not the exploration, it's the discovery.
Having "realism" offers much more of these interesting things to notice and explore. If I'm a hunter, seeing a rare bird that's meat grants superior benefits is great game interest for me. Seeing a certain type of flower in abundance that I know from experience is a sign that another, powerful plant for potions is possibly there too, that's fun to me. Or maybe it attracts a bee that has a stinger poison that's highly potent.
When was the last time you used bait to draw in a MOB that you are hunting? Instead of training that Demon out, maybe setting out a cow's liver might draw it out? How about gold coins to attract a Leprechaun whose pot of gold is what you seek? Have you ever listened to the birds for a sign? Noticed buzzards circling overhead?
What about those ancient inscriptions in the ruins? Do they ever mean anything? Can you read them? Do you have a notebook on it sitting next to your computer?
In Skyrim, for example, I found the world to be dull and boring and there was nothing to motivate me to explore. If Skyrim didn't have fast travel, then I'd have played it once and then never played it again.
Talk about difference in taste!
Last week I was playing skyrim, walking through it and thinking "my god, how beautiful this world is they did such an amazing job."
Oh, I'm not denying they did a great job creating that world! It is beautiful, and well crafted, and feels like a proper world (rather than a patchwork quilt of zones).
I'm just not a fan of the bleak, low-fantasy setting and found the world to be very monotonous. There's only so much snow and straggly grass I can take!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I've just spent a good couple of minutes trying to figure out how I would pronounce this term, but I love it!
mono-m-m-o-ga-mist .......too wordy
mon-om-mog-a-mist .........getting closer to something I could pronounce, but still, far too many "m"s in there!
A few years back, someone made a thread asking, "Are you Monogamist?" which was much easier to say and closer to the root word "monogamy." Iselin took a little liberty yet still got me smiling
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I agree 100%, but the sticky wicket is where that point of "too much realism" is for each individual player resides. While RDR 2's "pick up every little item separately" was fun at first, I saw many players start complaining after 20+ hours of doing this. I would too, if I played the game (which I didn't).
The biggest factor for me is game time. I mean "time passing within the game world." It only takes a couple of real time hours for a whole day to pass in game time. I don't want to cook my meals, go to the bathroom, wash my face and hands, don my armor and take it off before sleeping, or other mundane tasks that are "real", but invade on the game day that flies by so quickly.
I liked EQ's food and water mechanic: You had to carry it, but did not HAVE to sit down, cook it, and then eat it 3 times a day. It took up precious bag space, and was needed (you would get debuffs if not present), but did not hinder my "time in game."
I struggle with carry weight and bag space all the time. I'm a hoarder of the worst kind. I never know when something looted will be important later on, and I'm not one to throw away a few coppers. However, I want this to matter. I'd just like a better system to implement it. Walking around with 6 backpacks on my person is as silly as no back with no limits. Daggaerfall had wagons purchasable to help carry loot. Would it be so tough to implement wagons and mules or oxen into an MMORPG?
Ammo is another factor that players disagree on. I like it, many don't. It makes one think if their Ranger can go someplace without first stopping at the local bowyer's or making their own arrows. It makes players think and plan ahead, which many dislike with a passion
I am fully aware of the delicate "Convenience vs Realism" balance. I'm in the middle, myself, though maybe more on the "realism" side. But that doesn't mean every game needs to be this way. I'm not ever going to play every game, ever
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
In Minecraft (single player), I sleep and the night whizzes by. That can't happen in MMOs, as time cannot pass differently for each individual player. So, do we sit there for maybe 15-30 minutes waiting for night to pass? Not a fun mechanic, in my opinion.
You have to consider thousands of players playing at the same time when you try to add "realism" to MMOs. Some won't matter, others will
Again, I'm more on the realism side, but you have to remember "Massively Multiplayer."
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
A group of mobs. I aim and take a shot. I miss my target but where does that arrow go? Did it miss to the left, where another mob stands? Did it go over the mob, where more mobs stand behind my target?
Missed shots are as laughable in computer games as "laser guided missiles", for me
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I initially played in the bvb Vanilla years, leaving just as BC was coming out.
I returned to play Cata at launch but quit after the first month as the game had clearly continued to go in a direction I didn't enjoy.
I did try EQ2 around 2012 but it clearly was a shell of its former design, with many features updated to more modern conveniences, rather just to be more like WOW really.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah Cataclysm did me in. I particularly didn't like the skill changes and super-homogenization of the game where any class with any spec was an AOE mage tank while soloing.
I've gone back 3 or 4 times since but have never lasted more than a month or two.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Someone just recently mentioned a game on this forum had prison, and when I checked it out I found they had escapes. One thing about the escapes that I've noticed is that they are known and easily accomplished. In effect, they are game play for those sent to prison, and offer absolutely no downside to PKing.
I've seen prison brought up many times by PvPers as a deterrent, and a reason to allow PKing in a game. It's that further look that reveals the workaround that escapes provide.
One thing you can count on, so far in MMORPG design, is that games made by PvP oriented Devs will always make whatever "justice" they apply in order to sooth the masses and get sales, will always have these sorts of "outs."
UO went so far as to put a "stat loss" on PKers if they were caught and killed. That sounded good, except that they had two "outs."
One: "blue" healer friends didn't go "gray" for doing it, so players could not stop them from healing the "red" PKers, making them much harder to kill. If they attacked the "blue" healers, they went gray themselves and were attacked, killed, and looted by the rest of the PKer's "blue" friends.
Two: The stat loss didn't take affect until the player resurrected. So they simply played as a ghost, using macros to stay logged in, until their "red" status wore off (Hours of game play and a few days RL time).
Always the outs, because the Devs don't want to hurt their fellow PvPers. But they do want to convince the other players they are "trying" to help them, because they want their money and world population.
Once upon a time....
Which is why a lot of games don't make open rules like that..
what needed me is the challenge my character is facing,t quest he's on,t fight he's in, the puzzle he needs to solve, the choices he makes. Those issues as mentioned above pull me out of that, to get me to think of real-world activities I don't like them in the game I don't find them immersive at all I find them the opposite.
What drives me out of immersion is going to an inn and them advertising "food and drink or a room" and me as a player never have a reason to want either. Or fighting non-stop in a dungeon and never needing to rest.
One of my BEST and most fun times in Skyrim was me fighting in a dungeon mod (so I wasn't familiar with it) being surrounded by draugr and suddenly exhaustion from the Bethesda "needs" mod (whatever it was called) hit me.
I think I moved slower and fatigue did not generate as quickly. I suddenly found myself fighting for my life. And won but barely.
that was fun. I wish more games would incorporate a needs system "option."
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Last week I was playing skyrim, walking through it and thinking "my god, how beautiful this world is they did such an amazing job."
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That could be animals, plants, ruins, caves, anything that looks suspicious, etc.
But of course, if none of that ever means anything that interest would be lost.
I've always thought that it's not the exploration, it's the discovery.
Having "realism" offers much more of these interesting things to notice and explore.
If I'm a hunter, seeing a rare bird that's meat grants superior benefits is great game interest for me.
Seeing a certain type of flower in abundance that I know from experience is a sign that another, powerful plant for potions is possibly there too, that's fun to me. Or maybe it attracts a bee that has a stinger poison that's highly potent.
When was the last time you used bait to draw in a MOB that you are hunting?
Instead of training that Demon out, maybe setting out a cow's liver might draw it out?
How about gold coins to attract a Leprechaun whose pot of gold is what you seek?
Have you ever listened to the birds for a sign? Noticed buzzards circling overhead?
What about those ancient inscriptions in the ruins? Do they ever mean anything?
Can you read them? Do you have a notebook on it sitting next to your computer?
Once upon a time....
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR