"serious bugs going on where players are losing weapons to NPCs who are looting them off of their corpses when they die"
Haha.Full Loot Open PvE Game and the PvE Mobs are the Enemies.
Yeah, I read that and thought, not a half bad idea, but probably should be an intended design and announced beforehand.
Still, the gaming clan I belong to has sky rocketed to over 750 active members (they kick anyone who fails the weekly activity check unless given advanced notice) yet not one person has experienced the bug yet.
Weird perhaps, but then most of us are just that good, the NPCs wouldn't dare steal from us.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was going to buy it now with Wastelander's release but decided not to due to Fallout 1st, the subscription service for what is essentially a single player game. Needing to pay to have proper storage can fuck right off along with Bethesda. They've turned me off to all of their future titles with such shenanigans.
Except...its not a single player game...are you sure you know what FO76 is about?
Sub service is totally optional you know, "proper" storage is provided, which you'll have to manage.....properly.
If you are a horder like me either pony up for the sub, purchase a 2nd account for convenient storage mules (I have one along with a sub, as I really hoard) or ask a friend to help you transfer stuff to a mule on the same account.
Oh, I see, nevermind, you were just confirming your reasons to hate Bethesda, check.
While your dogged defense of Bethesda is...admirable... in this thread, I don't (didn't) have any ill will toward Bethesda until now. I do not support pay for storage games or pay to fix games, ever. Yes it's an online game and it's a RPG but not an MMORPG which is the only thing that could possibly warrant a subscription fee. It's not like this is a "season pass" for $20-$40 that covers a whole year of content releases; it's a sub. $13 a month for a coop optional "essentially single player game". Yea. No.
All of that aside, let's not forget what a pile of dogshit this game was on release. That people might even consider putting eyeballs on it now is extremely gracious of them. From my understanding this is nowhere near the turnaround that games like No Man's Sky and FFXIV have made so it's still dogshit just has some perfume spritzed on it now.
Ahh, another person whose never played saying it's not a MMORPG. While true from a traditional sense, the game is hosted entirely on company run servers, so it could warrant a sub, which isn't required, single player games run solely on my PC.
The sub provides multiple benefits, if none are worthwhile to you, all good.
But it's your right to spend money as you wish, can't fault anyone for that.
Fortunately I'm rich and can afford $13 a month...but I get not everyone can afford to be a whale like me.
Your rationalizations about charging for extra storage doesn't work here any more than it does in ESO.
You see there is this other way to deal with inadequate storage in a game which is to just fix it. Selling relief from it is scummy - it's just cash shop driven bad design that is left in a poor state to drive revenues. That's just F2P app store garbage marketing... in a B2P game.
Trying to rationalize it away as being only an issue for "hoarders" is just "my game right or wrong, love it or leave it" fanboy 101 shit.
And "I am rich" is beyond lame and totally beside the point. I thought you were better than this at picking the hills you're willing to die on.
I expect developers to find some way, some how to add continuous monetization to their products, GaaS is here to stay which I've learned to accept.
The genie is out of the bottle, there is no going back. Would I like more free storage, absolutely, but isn't going to happen, theres a reason when asked about the benefits of a sub 1st members often call it "the Trap."
Yet, I know many people who play FO76 without the sub, just like I knew many folks who only had one account in EVE, instead of six like me.
Also, I know folks who sub for a month, fill the stash box, then cancel for a few months. While you can't put anything else in without a sub, you can still take scrap out, so it's perfect for when a player is taking a break or only intermittently.
Keep in mind, the sub also covers developer provided private worlds, a sore spot for some for reasons I really can't relate to, a great tent for scrapping, storage, cooking and getting fine tuned while in the field, and..1650 Atoms a month, which keeps me looking good.
Yes, the are charging me $13.00 a month.
Thirteen dollars, $13, 1300 pennies, hmm, no matter how I write it, just a pittance, I set fire in an ashtray to more more money everyday, yet people constantly decry the unreasonableness of it, so I must be a whale, no?
Ever since I started playing MMOs, I have almost always had multiple subs, three in L1, five in DAOC, three in L2, three in WOW, two in LotRO, and finally six in EVE, which I paid for annually in cash....about $780 a year in total.
As for being better than all this, c'mon, I live under the bridge which you well know.
There is nothing inevitable about GaaS nor the previous hotness, loot boxes. There is real push back against both for good reason. Do some gamers not give a shit about either and just go along with what they consider inevitable? Absolutely. Just like there are some whose idea of great gaming is Farmville.
GaaS is and has been a legitimate revenue model for MMOs for decades because long term service is what they have always been about. But what's happening these days and what people are pushing back against is shoehorning otherwise single player games with minimal effort, tacked-on, co-op or PvP just to MMOify them for the steady stream of cash.
And some gamers are so sucked in to the whole thing that they go nuts when they find out that Cyberpunk 2077 is a single player game and they actually talk the company into promising an online GaaS to come at a later date.
That's some messed up shit there.
So we end up with crap like Anthem and probably the next Dragon Age game as well as FO76 instead of FO5. Single player games that still play best as single player but all CaaSed up instead.
Did you even notice what Mike said about being level 20 on a quest and running into level 60 mobs because the previous guy who went through there was 60 and the mobs scaled to him?
Isn't that a dead give away that a) it's best as single player game and b) they put minimal effort into GaaSing it? And there's no excuse for that shit happening in the game when a branch of the same company did level scaling in ESO in a way that actually works and that shit would never happen there. All they did was make all mobs everywhere the same exact level and they scale you up instead of scaling mobs to you. Pretty basic stuff.
You can throw in the towel about GaaS being here to stay. As long as there are quality games without this shit, which will always be the case I'll pass on this crap.
Like I said earlier my hundreds of hours in FO4 which I have been playing since it released, suit me just fine for this type of game.
More game, less bullshit. It's kind of my motto if you just take a look at my avatar
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Just throwing in 2 cents here in theme with with Kyleran and Iselin topics.
When i started into mmorpg's you paid a sub and got it all, but you had to earn it.
That there is the nutshell of what made it all so great.
I
remember playing a single player game and a quest giver actually wanted
me to pay for it as a dlc, that was the most immersion breaking moment
i've ever had in a game. We had the horse armor in Elder Scrolls, and we
all remember day one dlc in my favorite franchise of all time Mass
Effect.
I was 100% against DLC, but in time i noticed it was as
common as the sun coming up to most gamers? and ofc the outrage of cash
shop in a sub based game.
I have to admit i've grown accustomed
to this reality, and as messed up as it may sound, i'm ok with it and
actually like it is some respects.
I subbed up with eso for years
and let my sub roll even when i wasn't playing. Unfortunately the
entire game to me feels like one giant starter zone now so i no longer
play, but back then i was fine with the sub, the crowns alone made it a
good deal as far as subs go.
However i do vividly remember
when they first introduced a cash shop in eso, omg did it ever feel like
a huge slap in the face, i was so into the game at the time and i could
not play it.
The box roll guy seemed to pop up
all the time, i dunno, basically it ruined the game for me at that
time. Later my youngest got into eso, and then he somehow blew my entire
crowns fortune lmao love that kid, reminds me of someone haha. We got a
place together in game and we had so much fun, pvp'ing too.
I
dunno it felt fun to blow huge amounts of crowns, roll the boxes (well
hear my son roll, and get what he was aiming for), and even that back
builds ?gems? that you can use to buy what you are really rolling for
eventually, eso still as far as i know has the best sub deal, and for me
when it comes to mmorpg i always sub if i'm playing no matter what the
sub has or has not, but with eso it always felt like a steal.
When think back to my old gaming costs, i had 6 EQ2 subs, around 3 SWG subs and possibly 1 for anything i may have been checking out, round it up to 10 x $15, and average of 150 bones a month, $1800 a year, WTF?
Now today with the overall degradation of the genre, i pay for one account in wow 6 months at a time (classic and some retail), and a year at time for FO76, almost $300 a year down from $1800.
Want to talk about messed up shit, FO76 i'm paying a SUB, to play Online "ALONE", WTF???? honestly i'm not sure things could be more upside down tbh.
With the monthly atoms it's a straight trade like eso, but to be 100% honest i'd pay anyway for the option play alone, it's fallout and i like the option to play that way when i want to, i'd say it's about 50/50 for me.
The thing is, it's not the money, it's a hobby i like, so dropping some $$$ isn't the problem, other hobbies peeps i know have and blow 10, 20, 30 times more, it's crazy, but it's their hobby, the problem for me is when i drop the money, but feel forced to, like eso as good as the sub is, if you are going to play the game you need a sub, or go insane, FO76 is fine to me becasue i could totally play that game without a sub, and wow, well the last surviving mmopg where you get it all, but you have to earn it.
The greatest loss for all us mmorpg vets though is back when i paying 5 times more a month, it felt like a hobby, a hobby you can really dive into with other players and tackle content and earn anything you want to put your mind too. The satisfaction of really earning in game rewards, gear, housing items, always building, building, building, the memories of amazing times you shared with others in the hobby you all loved.
Unfortunately you can't buy that on the cash shop, "SOLD OUT"
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
Just throwing in 2 cents here in theme with with Kyleran and Iselin topics.
When i started into mmorpg's you paid a sub and got it all, but you had to earn it.
That there is the nutshell of what made it all so great.
I
remember playing a single player game and a quest giver actually wanted
me to pay for it as a dlc, that was the most immersion breaking moment
i've ever had in a game. We had the horse armor in Elder Scrolls, and we
all remember day one dlc in my favorite franchise of all time Mass
Effect.
I was 100% against DLC, but in time i noticed it was as
common as the sun coming up to most gamers? and ofc the outrage of cash
shop in a sub based game.
I have to admit i've grown accustomed
to this reality, and as messed up as it may sound, i'm ok with it and
actually like it is some respects.
I subbed up with eso for years
and let my sub roll even when i wasn't playing. Unfortunately the
entire game to me feels like one giant starter zone now so i no longer
play, but back then i was fine with the sub, the crowns alone made it a
good deal as far as subs go.
However i do vividly remember
when they first introduced a cash shop in eso, omg did it ever feel like
a huge slap in the face, i was so into the game at the time and i could
not play it.
The box roll guy seemed to pop up
all the time, i dunno, basically it ruined the game for me at that
time. Later my youngest got into eso, and then he somehow blew my entire
crowns fortune lmao love that kid, reminds me of someone haha. We got a
place together in game and we had so much fun, pvp'ing too.
I
dunno it felt fun to blow huge amounts of crowns, roll the boxes (well
hear my son roll, and get what he was aiming for), and even that back
builds ?gems? that you can use to buy what you are really rolling for
eventually, eso still as far as i know has the best sub deal, and for me
when it comes to mmorpg i always sub if i'm playing no matter what the
sub has or has not, but with eso it always felt like a steal.
When think back to my old gaming costs, i had 6 EQ2 subs, around 3 SWG subs and possibly 1 for anything i may have been checking out, round it up to 10 x $15, and average of 150 bones a month, $1800 a year, WTF?
Now today with the overall degradation of the genre, i pay for one account in wow 6 months at a time (classic and some retail), and a year at time for FO76, almost $300 a year down from $1800.
Want to talk about messed up shit, FO76 i'm paying a SUB, to play Online "ALONE", WTF???? honestly i'm not sure things could be more upside down tbh.
With the monthly atoms it's a straight trade like eso, but to be 100% honest i'd pay anyway for the option play alone, it's fallout and i like the option to play that way when i want to, i'd say it's about 50/50 for me.
The thing is, it's not the money, it's a hobby i like, so dropping some $$$ isn't the problem, other hobbies peeps i know have and blow 10, 20, 30 times more, it's crazy, but it's their hobby, the problem for me is when i drop the money, but feel forced to, like eso as good as the sub is, if you are going to play the game you need a sub, or go insane, FO76 is fine to me becasue i could totally play that game without a sub, and wow, well the last surviving mmopg where you get it all, but you have to earn it.
The greatest loss for all us mmorpg vets though is back when i paying 5 times more a month, it felt like a hobby, a hobby you can really dive into with other players and tackle content and earn anything you want to put your mind too. The satisfaction of really earning in game rewards, gear, housing items, always building, building, building, the memories of amazing times you shared with others in the hobby you all loved.
Unfortunately you can't buy that on the cash shop, "SOLD OUT"
I've never had an issue paying for subs in honest to goodness multiplayer MMOs that are designed from the ground up to be multiplayer. I did the same with ESO for more than 5 years.
But this shit of turning everything into an MMO even when the mechanics were never designed for that is just horseshit and offends my sense of fair pay for fair value.
But I saw ESO devolve from an all-inclusive MMO played by players who enjoyed the game play into a game with a huge emphasis on collectible doo-dahs and costumes. The change was gradual and the original post mandatory sub model was pretty good with an all inclusive sub. But boy has it changed.
I'm also convinced that it's the integrated cash shop with its huge database available anywhere at any time, and all the rendering of unique costumes in the game that has caused its performance to get worse over the years instead of better.
I'm also tolerant of 100% F2P games and their cash shops even when they sell bank space like POE for example - it's their one and only revenue stream. But B2P + cash shop + "optional" sub is the norm for all these single player games being turned into GaaS and just rubs me the wrong way. It's like they're saying that they will leave no nickle or dime uncollected if they can do it.
But it's not all of them like I said. Plenty of good games to play without this greedy BS in your face.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
OMFG!!!! Where the hell did you get that sword? a raid, dungeon, what boss?
today:
OMFG!!!! How much money did that cost you?
It's just so accepted now, don't earn it, buy it, instead, then why are we playing again? See how much we can get done in as little time as possible? If that's the case one would seriously need to ask themselves then why play at all? Why burden oneself with this extra chore you've created for yourself, i mean if your life is so busy then don't waste any of it on gaming ffs.
Oh wait, right, they beat the game with their credit card's so they can proudly display the amount of monrey they have thrown away. What a world. Back in my day we proudly displayed what we worked for, silly us.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
Except...its not a single player game...are you sure you know what FO76 is about?
Oh, I see, nevermind, you were just confirming your reasons to hate Bethesda, check.
Ahh, another person whose never played saying it's not a MMORPG. While true from a traditional sense, the game
Fortunately I'm rich and can afford $13 a month...but I get not everyone can afford to be a whale like me.
Trying to rationalize it away as being only an issue for "hoarders" is just "my game right or wrong, love it or leave it" fanboy 101 shit.
And "I am rich" is beyond lame and totally beside the point. I thought you were better than this at picking the hills you're willing to die on.
As for being better than all this, c'mon, I live under the bridge which you well know.
There is nothing inevitable about GaaS nor the previous hotness, loot boxes. There is real push back against both for good reason. Do some gamers not give a shit about either and just go along with what they consider inevitable? Absolutely. Just like there are some whose idea of great gaming is Farmville.
Did you even notice what Mike said about being level 20 on a quest and running into level 60 mobs because the previous guy who went through there was 60 and the mobs scaled to him?
Isn't that a dead give away that a) it's best as single player game and b) they put minimal effort into GaaSing it? And there's no excuse for that shit happening in the game when a branch of the same company did level scaling in ESO in a way that actually works and that shit would never happen there. All they did was make all mobs everywhere the same exact level and they scale you up instead of scaling mobs to you. Pretty basic stuff.
You can throw in the towel about GaaS being here to stay. As long as there are quality games without this shit, which will always be the case I'll pass on this crap.
Like I said earlier my hundreds of hours in FO4 which I have been playing since it released, suit me just fine for this type of game.
More game, less bullshit. It's kind of my motto if you just take a look at my avatar
Regarding the scaling issue, I remember when I first ran into it, was a level 20 or so exploring the Atlas observatory when a level 50 showed up..and suddenly I was facing instant level 58 NPC’s.... big fun I tell you..... even now when I’m in the mood to grief (hey, blame it on all the PVPer’s who ganked me) I’ll see a lower level character visiting WestTec and “pop” by.... watch the mobs jump to level 68...... see how well they manage.
I get your point, and totally agree the initial launch of FO76 was almost a business experiment, Todd must have had a bet he could launch the game with minimal changes and costs, which is very obvious in multiple ways.
Yet...still, I had a lot of fun playing it despite issues such as above, perhaps because death is almost inconsequential so no big deal if I went flat, and was pretty easy to either go back, or world hop to one where there were no high level characters in the area I wanted to visit.
I love FO4, I have over 1200 hours in it..but still, after 4 or 5 play throughs, my time is done there. Also, once you get to a high enough level, mid 60s or so there’s nothing really to play for in FO4..... but in FO76, I’m level 234 and still finding the “fun” in ways FO4 can’t offer.
These include the relentless pursuit of the perfect gun(s), I am so close with a Vampire, explosive, +1 Per .5 mm Gatling gun, if only it was armor piercing or 2 shot.... the search for the grail continues.....
Also, there’s these other players running around which I often befriend, offer assistance, even give away free stuff.. I’ve made at least a dozen random strangers power armor legs with calibrated shocks, don’t even charge them for the Stable flux required to make them, those I painfully gather or buy on my own.
I also belong to the West Virginia Republic, a well organized, cross platform gaming group in which I belong to a settlement (35-50 players) with a leadership structure, (I’ve been promoted to Expeditioner, a 2 level promotion in the Scavanger clan.... we also have Soldier, Engineer and Medic clans....
We actually get involved in PVP wars with other such groups, more so on the PS4 and XBox, but with the recent influx of PC players there’s been a resurgence of PVP attacks on our members.... heck, I’ve been zeroed twice with an attempted nuke drop..but being observant, I just went to another world until the nuke landed, then came back to search out my attackers....to point the soldiers at.... I dont’ have to get my hands dirty with such matters....
As of GaaS, I have conceded monetiization for most games will consist of multiple designs, with most including a box price, cash shop, optional subs etc.... heck, even loot boxes. I had to pay a fortune for inventory space in POE, forget the costumes, I bought one at $40 but that was it.... meanwhile I’ve got all sorts of Atom shop gear which keeps me looking good, at a far lower price than anything in POE
In fact, I spent about $200 easy In 6 months in the free POE, while this GaaS game has cost me about $150 across 10 months for two accounts and 4 or 5 months of 1st sub..... probably should have considered an annual sub but I can’t see myself playing endlessly once the lustre of Wasterlanders wears off....unless of course they keep adding more content..which they’ve promised...but we’ll see.
I get people dislike FO76 for many “reasons”, but too often I find their allegations overblown, not impacting my gameplay nearly as much as they will make it out to be.
Perhaps its the rose colored glasses.... or I’m just luckier than most....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Regarding the scaling issue, I remember when I first ran into it, was a level 20 or so exploring the Atlas observatory when a level 50 showed up..and suddenly I was facing instant level 58 NPC’s.... big fun I tell you..... even now when I’m in the mood to grief (hey, blame it on all the PVPer’s who ganked me) I’ll see a lower level character visiting WestTec and “pop” by.... watch the mobs jump to level 68...... see how well they manage.
I get your point, and totally agree the initial launch of FO76 was almost a business experiment, Todd must have had a bet he could launch the game with minimal changes and costs, which is very obvious in multiple ways.
Yet...still, I had a lot of fun playing it despite issues such as above, perhaps because death is almost inconsequential so no big deal if I went flat, and was pretty easy to either go back, or world hop to one where there were no high level characters in the area I wanted to visit.
I love FO4, I have over 1200 hours in it..but still, after 4 or 5 play throughs, my time is done there. Also, once you get to a high enough level, mid 60s or so there’s nothing really to play for in FO4..... but in FO76, I’m level 234 and still finding the “fun” in ways FO4 can’t offer.
These include the relentless pursuit of the perfect gun(s), I am so close with a Vampire, explosive, +1 Per .5 mm Gatling gun, if only it was armor piercing or 2 shot.... the search for the grail continues.....
Also, there’s these other players running around which I often befriend, offer assistance, even give away free stuff.. I’ve made at least a dozen random strangers power armor legs with calibrated shocks, don’t even charge them for the Stable flux required to make them, those I painfully gather or buy on my own.
I also belong to the West Virginia Republic, a well organized, cross platform gaming group in which I belong to a settlement (35-50 players) with a leadership structure, (I’ve been promoted to Expeditioner, a 2 level promotion in the Scavanger clan.... we also have Soldier, Engineer and Medic clans....
We actually get involved in PVP wars with other such groups, more so on the PS4 and XBox, but with the recent influx of PC players there’s been a resurgence of PVP attacks on our members.... heck, I’ve been zeroed twice with an attempted nuke drop..but being observant, I just went to another world until the nuke landed, then came back to search out my attackers....to point the soldiers at.... I dont’ have to get my hands dirty with such matters....
As of GaaS, I have conceded monetiization for most games will consist of multiple designs, with most including a box price, cash shop, optional subs etc.... heck, even loot boxes. I had to pay a fortune for inventory space in POE, forget the costumes, I bought one at $40 but that was it.... meanwhile I’ve got all sorts of Atom shop gear which keeps me looking good, at a far lower price than anything in POE
In fact, I spent about $200 easy In 6 months in the free POE, while this GaaS game has cost me about $150 across 10 months for two accounts and 4 or 5 months of 1st sub..... probably should have considered an annual sub but I can’t see myself playing endlessly once the lustre of Wasterlanders wears off....unless of course they keep adding more content..which they’ve promised...but we’ll see.
I get people dislike FO76 for many “reasons”, but too often I find their allegations overblown, not impacting my gameplay nearly as much as they will make it out to be.
Perhaps its the rose colored glasses.... or I’m just luckier than most....
I've enjoyed FO76 since the day it launched, it's so much better than any single player version of fallout as it's live no F5, i mean the most used button in fallout single player isn't the left mouse button or w, it's F5.
You can't just walk away form the game whenever you feel like it, it's live and i question if all the haters even know this game changing (for the better) fact.
I've mentioned it before people at work will go on and on about how bad Fallout 76 is, but unbelievably have never played it?
It's funny how people for years screamed about the measly 15 a month, yet hear them now blowing hundreds on the cash shop monthly in whatever FREE game they are playing.
Scariest words a parent can hear coming from their child "It's free to play Dad!!!"
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
Just throwing in 2 cents here in theme with with Kyleran and Iselin topics.
When i started into mmorpg's you paid a sub and got it all, but you had to earn it.
That there is the nutshell of what made it all so great.
I
remember playing a single player game and a quest giver actually wanted
me to pay for it as a dlc, that was the most immersion breaking moment
i've ever had in a game. We had the horse armor in Elder Scrolls, and we
all remember day one dlc in my favorite franchise of all time Mass
Effect.
I was 100% against DLC, but in time i noticed it was as
common as the sun coming up to most gamers? and ofc the outrage of cash
shop in a sub based game.
I have to admit i've grown accustomed
to this reality, and as messed up as it may sound, i'm ok with it and
actually like it is some respects.
I subbed up with eso for years
and let my sub roll even when i wasn't playing. Unfortunately the
entire game to me feels like one giant starter zone now so i no longer
play, but back then i was fine with the sub, the crowns alone made it a
good deal as far as subs go.
However i do vividly remember
when they first introduced a cash shop in eso, omg did it ever feel like
a huge slap in the face, i was so into the game at the time and i could
not play it.
The box roll guy seemed to pop up
all the time, i dunno, basically it ruined the game for me at that
time. Later my youngest got into eso, and then he somehow blew my entire
crowns fortune lmao love that kid, reminds me of someone haha. We got a
place together in game and we had so much fun, pvp'ing too.
I
dunno it felt fun to blow huge amounts of crowns, roll the boxes (well
hear my son roll, and get what he was aiming for), and even that back
builds ?gems? that you can use to buy what you are really rolling for
eventually, eso still as far as i know has the best sub deal, and for me
when it comes to mmorpg i always sub if i'm playing no matter what the
sub has or has not, but with eso it always felt like a steal.
When think back to my old gaming costs, i had 6 EQ2 subs, around 3 SWG subs and possibly 1 for anything i may have been checking out, round it up to 10 x $15, and average of 150 bones a month, $1800 a year, WTF?
Now today with the overall degradation of the genre, i pay for one account in wow 6 months at a time (classic and some retail), and a year at time for FO76, almost $300 a year down from $1800.
Want to talk about messed up shit, FO76 i'm paying a SUB, to play Online "ALONE", WTF???? honestly i'm not sure things could be more upside down tbh.
With the monthly atoms it's a straight trade like eso, but to be 100% honest i'd pay anyway for the option play alone, it's fallout and i like the option to play that way when i want to, i'd say it's about 50/50 for me.
The thing is, it's not the money, it's a hobby i like, so dropping some $$$ isn't the problem, other hobbies peeps i know have and blow 10, 20, 30 times more, it's crazy, but it's their hobby, the problem for me is when i drop the money, but feel forced to, like eso as good as the sub is, if you are going to play the game you need a sub, or go insane, FO76 is fine to me becasue i could totally play that game without a sub, and wow, well the last surviving mmopg where you get it all, but you have to earn it.
The greatest loss for all us mmorpg vets though is back when i paying 5 times more a month, it felt like a hobby, a hobby you can really dive into with other players and tackle content and earn anything you want to put your mind too. The satisfaction of really earning in game rewards, gear, housing items, always building, building, building, the memories of amazing times you shared with others in the hobby you all loved.
Unfortunately you can't buy that on the cash shop, "SOLD OUT"
I've never had an issue paying for subs in honest to goodness multiplayer MMOs that are designed from the ground up to be multiplayer. I did the same with ESO for more than 5 years.
But this shit of turning everything into an MMO even when the mechanics were never designed for that is just horseshit and offends my sense of fair pay for fair value.
But I saw ESO devolve from an all-inclusive MMO played by players who enjoyed the game play into a game with a huge emphasis on collectible doo-dahs and costumes. The change was gradual and the original post mandatory sub model was pretty good with an all inclusive sub. But boy has it changed.
I'm also convinced that it's the integrated cash shop with its huge database available anywhere at any time, and all the rendering of unique costumes in the game that has caused its performance to get worse over the years instead of better.
I'm also tolerant of 100% F2P games and their cash shops even when they sell bank space like POE for example - it's their one and only revenue stream. But B2P + cash shop + "optional" sub is the norm for all these single player games being turned into GaaS and just rubs me the wrong way. It's like they're saying that they will leave no nickle or dime uncollected if they can do it.
But it's not all of them like I said. Plenty of good games to play without this greedy BS in your face.
Same question I posed Sovarath, what is your list of recent, good, online multiplayer games?
I found POE’s cash shop to be much more aggravating, I ran around looking like a Murder hobo, as all, and I mean all good looking cosmetics are locked behind that cash shop...and not at all at a reasonable price, at least IMO.. I single sword skin could easily cost $20..... and.... if you were dual wielding, you were expected to purchase two skins.... crazy but true so $40 for my cyclone.....
I easily blew near $100 on extra storage with a few months of starting.... finally learned to start tossing it away or stuffing it in the clan storage...... their problem....
YMMV, I’ve got no issue paying for FO76, but I don’t view or play it as a single player game, in fact, it’s more MMO to me in terms of socialization outside of EVE in the past 15 years..... so go figure....
Perhaps to improve socialization, we need to break MMO’s down into smaller pieces, and not look to be part of tens of thousands?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Same question I posed Sovarath, what is your list of recent, good, online multiplayer games?
You did? I think I missed that one.
Were there ever any?
I know we say there were but I can't name an online game that I've played that didn't have problems.
I think Black Desert is great. But so many problems.
But Lineage 2 was great and so many problems. Or Warhammer Online or Lord of the Rings Online, which is great but simultaneously a HUGE disappointment.
I LOVE Conan Exiles and the only reason I'm not playing it in earnest is
I have to finish this mod and I have another very important project
waiting on me finishing this mod.
But it has its issues as well.
I think as players we pick and choose. You know, "pick your poison" varmint.
We acknowledge the good, put up with the bad because the good is so good but secretly hope someone gets it right.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Same question I posed Sovarath, what is your list of recent, good, online multiplayer games?
I found POE’s cash shop to be much more aggravating, I ran around looking like a Murder hobo, as all, and I mean all good looking cosmetics are locked behind that cash shop...and not at all at a reasonable price, at least IMO.. I single sword skin could easily cost $20..... and.... if you were dual wielding, you were expected to purchase two skins.... crazy but true so $40 for my cyclone.....
I easily blew near $100 on extra storage with a few months of starting.... finally learned to start tossing it away or stuffing it in the clan storage...... their problem....
YMMV, I’ve got no issue paying for FO76, but I don’t view or play it as a single player game, in fact, it’s more MMO to me in terms of socialization outside of EVE in the past 15 years..... so go figure....
Perhaps to improve socialization, we need to break MMO’s down into smaller pieces, and not look to be part of tens of thousands?
Stash space and extra character slots is all I ever buy from cash shops. I don't even bother much with free in-game costumes and skins and I certainly never spend money on them. Just have never really been into the cosmetics part of gaming. I an see that getting expensive if that matters to you since it's the stuff they really push.
Online games? Off the top of my head In the past few years I've played ESO, GW2, WOW, BDO, Archeage, Diablo 3 and went back to GW1 for a while as well as Rift, LOTRO and SWTOR.
Survival games also don't appeal to me - punching bushes and trees to start crafting is a turn off and building houses or other structures I find pretty meh too.
I play these games to explore, fight, build my characters in interesting ways and group with others who like the same. I had tons of friends in Cyrodiil PvP in ESO since those campaigns works essentially like DAoC servers and you run into the same friends and foes day in and day out if you play a lot. The megaserver part of ESO, where you play with thousands of random strangers is only a thing for PvE.
It's also the most fun I've had in PvP since my DAoC days. Nothing in MMOs or any other online game comes even remotely close to how much I enjoy very large PvP battles with a couple of hundred players involved. So yeah, real MMOs over small population survival games any day of the week for me.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Fallout 4 still scratches any fallout itch I have. Maybe I just don't itch in the right places?
Same here, I've played that game to death in every possible sauce (Mods), and keep going back every couple of months.
76 doesn't add anything to it.
It's basically FO4 multiplayer mode.
I am not keen in playing in small servers...but if it was a MMORPG, that would be another story.
I’d be curious what you think being a traditional MMORPG would bring to the table which the current design doesn’t.
More people to play with.
There are already thousands upon thousands to play with.
In the same server?
Back to my question, what exactly would you do with thousands on the same server.
FO world has never been about massive battles or anything, but rather the lone vault dweller wandering a wasteland with only a smattering or survivors anywhere.
Expecting the Battle for Helms deep doesn't make a lot of sense.
You answered your own question.
Why would I play a game in multiplayer which can be perfectly enjoyed by playing by myself?
Why would I pay a box price + subscription + Cash Shop, when there is already a better game which does everything 76 does, but better (except multiplayer)?
That game is Fallout 4.
What 76 offers more that FO4 doesn't?
And if your answer is multiplayer then I turn your original question (modified) to you:
What exactly would you do with 12 more people on the same server as opposed by playing by yourself?
Making a Fallout MMORPG would be another beast altogether.
I've been asking for a Full PvE Sandbox for ages, and Fallout and TES would be perfect.
Instead we got a generic MMO (ESO), and this thing, which is completely redundant, since there is FO4 totally free.
I don't know why you are wasting your time on it, quite frankly.
It's the classic definition of Cash Grab.
It's a carbon copy of FO4 (with more bugs and less content), they just charging you for the multiplayer.
Please keep supporting this type of business, so developers will come up with even more shit to make more money while delivering unimpressive games, as confirmed by the latest trend.
I played the game to like lvl 190 or something for 1 month within launch. It got so boring to keep shooting nukes at the same fucking golf course every single time (with like 50% of the time something would bug out and become invincible like a turret, forcing a restart). Much like the fact main enemies were flying always as melee build.
My question is, what I hope someone who also spent as much as time in it back then, IS IT WORTH TO LOG IN? HAVE THESE THINGS CHANGED, IF SO, HOW?
Let's also be clear, I have not and would not ever spend a single penny on this game. The entire fucking game was gifted to me by a friend who needed company to play the game. This game at least back in 2018 was a disgrace at best - ruining a beloved game series and also sinking a loved developer.
(I don't care about comments from those who have not played the game at all or barely at all - post that elsewhere)
Comments
Still, the gaming clan I belong to has sky rocketed to over 750 active members (they kick anyone who fails the weekly activity check unless given advanced notice) yet not one person has experienced the bug yet.
Weird perhaps, but then most of us are just that good, the NPCs wouldn't dare steal from us.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
GaaS is and has been a legitimate revenue model for MMOs for decades because long term service is what they have always been about. But what's happening these days and what people are pushing back against is shoehorning otherwise single player games with minimal effort, tacked-on, co-op or PvP just to MMOify them for the steady stream of cash.
And some gamers are so sucked in to the whole thing that they go nuts when they find out that Cyberpunk 2077 is a single player game and they actually talk the company into promising an online GaaS to come at a later date.
That's some messed up shit there.
So we end up with crap like Anthem and probably the next Dragon Age game as well as FO76 instead of FO5. Single player games that still play best as single player but all CaaSed up instead.
Did you even notice what Mike said about being level 20 on a quest and running into level 60 mobs because the previous guy who went through there was 60 and the mobs scaled to him?
Isn't that a dead give away that a) it's best as single player game and b) they put minimal effort into GaaSing it? And there's no excuse for that shit happening in the game when a branch of the same company did level scaling in ESO in a way that actually works and that shit would never happen there. All they did was make all mobs everywhere the same exact level and they scale you up instead of scaling mobs to you. Pretty basic stuff.
You can throw in the towel about GaaS being here to stay. As long as there are quality games without this shit, which will always be the case I'll pass on this crap.
Like I said earlier my hundreds of hours in FO4 which I have been playing since it released, suit me just fine for this type of game.
More game, less bullshit. It's kind of my motto if you just take a look at my avatar
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Just throwing in 2 cents here in theme with with Kyleran and Iselin topics.
When i started into mmorpg's you paid a sub and got it all, but you had to earn it.
That there is the nutshell of what made it all so great.
I remember playing a single player game and a quest giver actually wanted me to pay for it as a dlc, that was the most immersion breaking moment i've ever had in a game. We had the horse armor in Elder Scrolls, and we all remember day one dlc in my favorite franchise of all time Mass Effect.
I was 100% against DLC, but in time i noticed it was as common as the sun coming up to most gamers? and ofc the outrage of cash shop in a sub based game.
I have to admit i've grown accustomed to this reality, and as messed up as it may sound, i'm ok with it and actually like it is some respects.
I subbed up with eso for years and let my sub roll even when i wasn't playing. Unfortunately the entire game to me feels like one giant starter zone now so i no longer play, but back then i was fine with the sub, the crowns alone made it a good deal as far as subs go.
But this shit of turning everything into an MMO even when the mechanics were never designed for that is just horseshit and offends my sense of fair pay for fair value.
But I saw ESO devolve from an all-inclusive MMO played by players who enjoyed the game play into a game with a huge emphasis on collectible doo-dahs and costumes. The change was gradual and the original post mandatory sub model was pretty good with an all inclusive sub. But boy has it changed.
I'm also convinced that it's the integrated cash shop with its huge database available anywhere at any time, and all the rendering of unique costumes in the game that has caused its performance to get worse over the years instead of better.
I'm also tolerant of 100% F2P games and their cash shops even when they sell bank space like POE for example - it's their one and only revenue stream. But B2P + cash shop + "optional" sub is the norm for all these single player games being turned into GaaS and just rubs me the wrong way. It's like they're saying that they will leave no nickle or dime uncollected if they can do it.
But it's not all of them like I said. Plenty of good games to play without this greedy BS in your face.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I get your point, and totally agree the initial launch of FO76 was almost a business experiment, Todd must have had a bet he could launch the game with minimal changes and costs, which is very obvious in multiple ways.
Yet...still, I had a lot of fun playing it despite issues such as above, perhaps because death is almost inconsequential so no big deal if I went flat, and was pretty easy to either go back, or world hop to one where there were no high level characters in the area I wanted to visit.
I love FO4, I have over 1200 hours in it..but still, after 4 or 5 play throughs, my time is done there. Also, once you get to a high enough level, mid 60s or so there’s nothing really to play for in FO4..... but in FO76, I’m level 234 and still finding the “fun” in ways FO4 can’t offer.
These include the relentless pursuit of the perfect gun(s), I am so close with a Vampire, explosive, +1 Per .5 mm Gatling gun, if only it was armor piercing or 2 shot.... the search for the grail continues.....
Also, there’s these other players running around which I often befriend, offer assistance, even give away free stuff.. I’ve made at least a dozen random strangers power armor legs with calibrated shocks, don’t even charge them for the Stable flux required to make them, those I painfully gather or buy on my own.
I also belong to the West Virginia Republic, a well organized, cross platform gaming group in which I belong to a settlement (35-50 players) with a leadership structure, (I’ve been promoted to Expeditioner, a 2 level promotion in the Scavanger clan.... we also have Soldier, Engineer and Medic clans....
We actually get involved in PVP wars with other such groups, more so on the PS4 and XBox, but with the recent influx of PC players there’s been a resurgence of PVP attacks on our members.... heck, I’ve been zeroed twice with an attempted nuke drop..but being observant, I just went to another world until the nuke landed, then came back to search out my attackers....to point the soldiers at.... I dont’ have to get my hands dirty with such matters....
As of GaaS, I have conceded monetiization for most games will consist of multiple designs, with most including a box price, cash shop, optional subs etc.... heck, even loot boxes. I had to pay a fortune for inventory space in POE, forget the costumes, I bought one at $40 but that was it.... meanwhile I’ve got all sorts of Atom shop gear which keeps me looking good, at a far lower price than anything in POE
In fact, I spent about $200 easy In 6 months in the free POE, while this GaaS game has cost me about $150 across 10 months for two accounts and 4 or 5 months of 1st sub..... probably should have considered an annual sub but I can’t see myself playing endlessly once the lustre of Wasterlanders wears off....unless of course they keep adding more content..which they’ve promised...but we’ll see.
I get people dislike FO76 for many “reasons”, but too often I find their allegations overblown, not impacting my gameplay nearly as much as they will make it out to be.
Perhaps its the rose colored glasses.... or I’m just luckier than most....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I found POE’s cash shop to be much more aggravating, I ran around looking like a Murder hobo, as all, and I mean all good looking cosmetics are locked behind that cash shop...and not at all at a reasonable price, at least IMO.. I single sword skin could easily cost $20..... and.... if you were dual wielding, you were expected to purchase two skins.... crazy but true so $40 for my cyclone.....
I easily blew near $100 on extra storage with a few months of starting.... finally learned to start tossing it away or stuffing it in the clan storage...... their problem....
YMMV, I’ve got no issue paying for FO76, but I don’t view or play it as a single player game, in fact, it’s more MMO to me in terms of socialization outside of EVE in the past 15 years..... so go figure....
Perhaps to improve socialization, we need to break MMO’s down into smaller pieces, and not look to be part of tens of thousands?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Online games? Off the top of my head In the past few years I've played ESO, GW2, WOW, BDO, Archeage, Diablo 3 and went back to GW1 for a while as well as Rift, LOTRO and SWTOR.
Survival games also don't appeal to me - punching bushes and trees to start crafting is a turn off and building houses or other structures I find pretty meh too.
I play these games to explore, fight, build my characters in interesting ways and group with others who like the same. I had tons of friends in Cyrodiil PvP in ESO since those campaigns works essentially like DAoC servers and you run into the same friends and foes day in and day out if you play a lot. The megaserver part of ESO, where you play with thousands of random strangers is only a thing for PvE.
It's also the most fun I've had in PvP since my DAoC days. Nothing in MMOs or any other online game comes even remotely close to how much I enjoy very large PvP battles with a couple of hundred players involved. So yeah, real MMOs over small population survival games any day of the week for me.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
My question is, what I hope someone who also spent as much as time in it back then, IS IT WORTH TO LOG IN? HAVE THESE THINGS CHANGED, IF SO, HOW?
Let's also be clear, I have not and would not ever spend a single penny on this game. The entire fucking game was gifted to me by a friend who needed company to play the game. This game at least back in 2018 was a disgrace at best - ruining a beloved game series and also sinking a loved developer.
(I don't care about comments from those who have not played the game at all or barely at all - post that elsewhere)