Visionary Realms CEO Talks Pantheon in 2021 in Latest Developer Roundtable | MMORPG.com

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Visionary Realms CEO Talks Pantheon in 2021 in Latest Developer Roundtable | MMORPG.com

The latest Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen developer roundtable on February 5th sat down with CEO Chris Rowan to talk about what's headed down the pipe for Pantheon and Visionary realms in 2021.

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koldmiser

Remove forced PVP and I'll be back on board for this. I'm sorry, for some reason my brain thought this was an Ashes of Creation post. My bad!!!

Kyleran

No PVP at all in Pantheon yet, but if they ever do it will be on separate PVP only servers.

Slapshot1188

koldmiser said:

Remove forced PVP and I'll be back on board for this.

Why do people always post in games they have no clue about?

Forced PvP in Pantheon? Like... WTF... really... WTF. I had to make sure this wasn't a Wiz post.

kitarad

koldmiser said:

Remove forced PVP and I'll be back on board for this.

What forced PvP?

achesoma

Here is a condensed version of highlights from Nathan Napalm for those that don't want to listen to whole thing.

Wizardry

All i got out of the narrative is how hard Brad worked and likely worked himself into the ground plus the added stress during all the tough times.I always had respect for Brad,sadly this industry relies a lot on $$$$.

Dude mentions he has seen what works and what doesn't is NOT a definitive answer to building a better game.The reason is simple,just because one developer implemented an idea poorly does not mean those ideas cannot work.

You need people i ncharge with the ability to THINK about every decision and decide if it works,makes sense and might be FUN/enjoyable.
IMO it is SUPER easy to make a Wow game,attach a line of bread crumbs to follow,string together carrots on the end of a stick until you reach end game then turn the game into it's most shallow form possible.
A SMART team can think BEYOND end levels and levels in general.

Wizardry

He talks the typical talk we hear from all developers "we want to listen to the community "and are very sincere about it.How big is a community 1...2..3+ million,there is NO WAY any human being can listen to millions of opinions and ideas,impossible.
You need to do the listening and questioning and decision making BEFORE you start making the game.
The team should have a core group of people within that when they are confronted with a problem an idea that did not work out Quite the way they expected are then able to converse with each other to work it out.If you NEED to go outside your leaders then your team is likely not good enough.

achesoma

Chris is essentially defining alpha as feature complete game but lacking polish. He also makes the claim that is the true definition of alpha. I don’t work in game development so I wonder if that’s true and if there used to be a set standard of what alpha means. 

Utinni

achesoma said:

Chris is essentially defining alpha as feature complete game but lacking polish. He also makes the claim that is the true definition of alpha. I don’t work in game development so I wonder if that’s true and if there used to be a set standard of what alpha means. 

I've never seen or worked on a "feature complete" alpha. If pantheon was just lacking polish they wouldve released it by now.

Mensur

Early access has completely changed the meaning of alpha as noticed on this thread! lol

cheyane

Looking at  the condensed version of highlights from Nathan Napalm I noticed that it plays exactly like Everquest. I mean look at how those 3 players play. One player pulled that Hyoket shield guy and Joppa stays back and heals. It harkens back to what we used to do in small groups in Everquest. It's going to be so good I am so very pleased.

Didn't it remind you of Kedge Keep?

Scot

Slapshot1188 said:

koldmiser said:

Remove forced PVP and I'll be back on board for this.

Why do people always post in games they have no clue about?

Forced PvP in Pantheon? Like... WTF... really... WTF. I had to make sure this wasn't a Wiz post.

I have done more than one post on here thinking the thread was about one CF MMO in development when it turned out to be a different one.

Those who only dip into what is happening with these games are not helped by the fact that they seem to all do the same things which generate articles like start another game, produce roadmaps, show far more art than video footage, look like they want to sell their engine, change how the game is going to be monetarized; after a few years of this they all merge into one.

Nanfoodle

So Alpha 1 may start in 2021. The 8000+ Alpha level backers must be excited.

Sovrath

TheAmir said:

I mean, I know the MMORPG genre needs a change and a major shakeup, but I'm not sure going back to spawn camping for hours on end is the right move-- it's going backward, not forward.

Oh well. Dead genre is dead, I guess.

That's one way of looking at it.

I think what it really entails is providing group activities that require a group. What if a spawn point wasn't just mobs spawning but, say, mobs coming out of the ground or small caves or "whatever" and over time they not only became more difficult but more mini bosses would join with different abilities.

mixing it up with better rewards over time. Because I know people tend to play for "rewards."

Wellspring

I quite enjoyed this interview. It was refreshing hearing from Chris Rowan for the first time. Sounds like Brad found the right captain to steer the VR ship. This stream is definitely worth a listen!

Sovrath

kitarad said:

koldmiser said:

Remove forced PVP and I'll be back on board for this.

What forced PvP?

It's the illusion that if you knowingly buy a game with an emphasis on pvp that they are forcing you to do pvp.

If that's true then I suppose knowingly buying a game with an emphasis on pve is forced pve.

Those monsters! 

Hopestealer

Utinni said:

achesoma said:

Chris is essentially defining alpha as feature complete game but lacking polish. He also makes the claim that is the true definition of alpha. I don’t work in game development so I wonder if that’s true and if there used to be a set standard of what alpha means. 

I've never seen or worked on a "feature complete" alpha. If pantheon was just lacking polish they wouldve released it by now.

Traditionally "alpha" used to mean that the core aspects of the game were being worked on and included into the game. Once all of the cores were in place then a game could go into beta where the lengthy process of adding features to those cores would happen.
Toward the end of beta you see polishing happen.
It has only been in recent years that games have been launching before they were all polished. In the bad old days polish was added at the end of betas. Not after launch. Sadly, all to often, games are indeed launched before polishing is completed. I hope that this isn't the case with Pantheon

Nanfoodle

Hopestealer said:

Utinni said:

achesoma said:

Chris is essentially defining alpha as feature complete game but lacking polish. He also makes the claim that is the true definition of alpha. I don’t work in game development so I wonder if that’s true and if there used to be a set standard of what alpha means. 

I've never seen or worked on a "feature complete" alpha. If pantheon was just lacking polish they wouldve released it by now.

Traditionally "alpha" used to mean that the core aspects of the game were being worked on and included into the game. Once all of the cores were in place then a game could go into beta where the lengthy process of adding features to those cores would happen.
Toward the end of beta you see polishing happen.
It has only been in recent years that games have been launching before they were all polished. In the bad old days polish was added at the end of betas. Not after launch. Sadly, all to often, games are indeed launched before polishing is completed. I hope that this isn't the case with Pantheon

Ya, VR has said more then once, their idea of Alpha and Beta is the old school kind. 

Kyleran

Hopestealer said:

Utinni said:

achesoma said:

Chris is essentially defining alpha as feature complete game but lacking polish. He also makes the claim that is the true definition of alpha. I don’t work in game development so I wonder if that’s true and if there used to be a set standard of what alpha means. 

I've never seen or worked on a "feature complete" alpha. If pantheon was just lacking polish they wouldve released it by now.

.
It has only been in recent years that games have been launching before they were all polished. In the bad old days polish was added at the end of betas. Not after launch. Sadly, all to often, games are indeed launched before polishing is completed. I hope that this isn't the case with Pantheon

Does anyone recall the withering criticism Funcom received for releasing Age of Conan "unfinished?"

Turns out they actually were visionaries ahead of their time.

Slapshot1188

Nanfoodle said:

Hopestealer said:

Utinni said:

achesoma said:

Chris is essentially defining alpha as feature complete game but lacking polish. He also makes the claim that is the true definition of alpha. I don’t work in game development so I wonder if that’s true and if there used to be a set standard of what alpha means. 

I've never seen or worked on a "feature complete" alpha. If pantheon was just lacking polish they wouldve released it by now.

Traditionally "alpha" used to mean that the core aspects of the game were being worked on and included into the game. Once all of the cores were in place then a game could go into beta where the lengthy process of adding features to those cores would happen.
Toward the end of beta you see polishing happen.
It has only been in recent years that games have been launching before they were all polished. In the bad old days polish was added at the end of betas. Not after launch. Sadly, all to often, games are indeed launched before polishing is completed. I hope that this isn't the case with Pantheon

Ya, VR has said more then once, their idea of Alpha and Beta is the old school kind. 

So did MJ and Camelot Unchained...

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

Hopestealer said:

Utinni said:

achesoma said:

Chris is essentially defining alpha as feature complete game but lacking polish. He also makes the claim that is the true definition of alpha. I don’t work in game development so I wonder if that’s true and if there used to be a set standard of what alpha means. 

I've never seen or worked on a "feature complete" alpha. If pantheon was just lacking polish they wouldve released it by now.

.
It has only been in recent years that games have been launching before they were all polished. In the bad old days polish was added at the end of betas. Not after launch. Sadly, all to often, games are indeed launched before polishing is completed. I hope that this isn't the case with Pantheon

Does anyone recall the withering criticism Funcom received for releasing Age of Conan "unfinished?"

Turns out they actually were visionaries ahead of their time.

Each time the bar is lowered that becomes the new standard for future games to try and "beat".

KnightFalz

Sovrath said:

kitarad said:

koldmiser said:

Remove forced PVP and I'll be back on board for this.

What forced PvP?

It's the illusion that if you knowingly buy a game with an emphasis on pvp that they are forcing you to do pvp.

If that's true then I suppose knowingly buying a game with an emphasis on pve is forced pve.

Those monsters! 

I think the context of forced is more if I want to play PvPGameX I am forced to PvP even though all I really want out of it is GameX. Playing the game is voluntary but the conditions played under are not.

Not a PvP fan myself, if I loved the GameX element so much I played regardless I would be forced into situations I'd rather not be in by others. Ultimately, it isn't a genuinely forced situation but I can see how many would feel it to be so.

I simply avoid games where I can't opt of of PvP, though if one were intriguing enough I may give it a try. Sometimes a get a fleeting inkling that such could be fun. But I know if I step into that environment that by my presence I accept all that can come with.

Nanfoodle

Slapshot1188 said:

Nanfoodle said:

Hopestealer said:

Utinni said:

achesoma said:

Chris is essentially defining alpha as feature complete game but lacking polish. He also makes the claim that is the true definition of alpha. I don’t work in game development so I wonder if that’s true and if there used to be a set standard of what alpha means. 

I've never seen or worked on a "feature complete" alpha. If pantheon was just lacking polish they wouldve released it by now.

Traditionally "alpha" used to mean that the core aspects of the game were being worked on and included into the game. Once all of the cores were in place then a game could go into beta where the lengthy process of adding features to those cores would happen.
Toward the end of beta you see polishing happen.
It has only been in recent years that games have been launching before they were all polished. In the bad old days polish was added at the end of betas. Not after launch. Sadly, all to often, games are indeed launched before polishing is completed. I hope that this isn't the case with Pantheon

Ya, VR has said more then once, their idea of Alpha and Beta is the old school kind. 

So did MJ and Camelot Unchained...

Guess proof will be in the pudding. I personally dont care. I growing tried of the generic classes in MMOs today and would be happy to play Pantheon, if they did a Project: Gorgon kind of path. Im only stating what the VR staff have said and what we have seen up till now.

Mendel

Sovrath said:

TheAmir said:

I mean, I know the MMORPG genre needs a change and a major shakeup, but I'm not sure going back to spawn camping for hours on end is the right move-- it's going backward, not forward.

Oh well. Dead genre is dead, I guess.

That's one way of looking at it.

I think what it really entails is providing group activities that require a group. What if a spawn point wasn't just mobs spawning but, say, mobs coming out of the ground or small caves or "whatever" and over time they not only became more difficult but more mini bosses would join with different abilities.

mixing it up with better rewards over time. Because I know people tend to play for "rewards."

So, a rift?  There needs to be something a bit more substantial than that one idea to build a lasting game around.  If I remember, Rift was interesting for the early players for awhile, then died off as the groups moved into progressively more difficult content.  A New player might get out of the first areas only to find mostly desolate secondary areas.

Sovrath

KnightFalz said:

Sovrath said:

kitarad said:

koldmiser said:

Remove forced PVP and I'll be back on board for this.

What forced PvP?

It's the illusion that if you knowingly buy a game with an emphasis on pvp that they are forcing you to do pvp.

If that's true then I suppose knowingly buying a game with an emphasis on pve is forced pve.

Those monsters! 

I think the context of forced is more if I want to play PvPGameX I am forced to PvP even though all I really want out of it is GameX. Playing the game is voluntary but the conditions played under are not.

Not a PvP fan myself, if I loved the GameX element so much I played regardless I would be forced into situations I'd rather not be in by others. Ultimately, it isn't a genuinely forced situation but I can see how many would feel it to be so.

I simply avoid games where I can't opt of of PvP, though if one were intriguing enough I may give it a try. Sometimes a get a fleeting inkling that such could be fun. But I know if I step into that environment that by my presence I accept all that can come with.

Yeah, but it's still pvp game x. I mean, I get that pvp game x might have some game play elements that could be enticing to people who don't like pvp but it still is what it is.

No one is forcing people to buy it.

But then people buy it and say they are being forced to pvp (because it was right there on the virtual box) and then all the asking for a pve server or "I should be allowed to flag for pvp." etc.

The only thing a person should be allowed to do is to have access to the game. If developers want to change their design that's up to them.

I feel the "forced" moniker is essentially from people who just can't accept that the game they like has elements they don't want at all so they just complain and demand.