Which is the entire point of my argument. I'm not saying that you're wrong to like the editorial. I'm not saying that it's a bad "rant" either. But I am saying that there's news articles, like on MOP and the one that started this thread, which have their own purpose, love it or hate it, and then there are editorials that are meant to express an opinion.
In other words, Don't hate a fork for not being a spoon.
Do you believe it's legitimate?
If you were the editor of an MMO news website, having seen the kickstarter, would you put up a plain news article? Knowing full well that at least some of your readers would pledge, would you promote a fishy project just for the sake of having a news story?
I don't think it's legitimate. At least, not realistically legitimate - as in the developers might think what they're posting is a legitimate, but there's a very slim chance they would deliver.
However, if I hired someone to write news on MMO's and this was written as a news story, then I got what I paid for. The article isn't promoting the game, it's stating simply that it exists, and the information provided is factual as far as I can tell.
If I hired them for an editorial about this game, then I would probably have had them rewrite the article if this is what they submitted. It's not an editorial, there's no opinion, and tbh apart from the weird subject matter, it's not really that much of a stand out article from the other dozens out there about other games.
If I was the editor, and could choose between an editorial and a news piece on this game, which would I choose? I'd do both. I think there's room for factual information related to the project and a separate article ripping it to shreds. My personal feeling is that some games, at least initially, deserve an attempt at unbiased coverage. Even Chronicles of Elyria once had unbiased coverage here. ... once upon a time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Which is the entire point of my argument. I'm not saying that you're wrong to like the editorial. I'm not saying that it's a bad "rant" either. But I am saying that there's news articles, like on MOP and the one that started this thread, which have their own purpose, love it or hate it, and then there are editorials that are meant to express an opinion.
In other words, Don't hate a fork for not being a spoon.
Do you believe it's legitimate?
If you were the editor of an MMO news website, having seen the kickstarter, would you put up a plain news article? Knowing full well that at least some of your readers would pledge, would you promote a fishy project just for the sake of having a news story?
I don't think it's legitimate. At least, not realistically legitimate - as in the developers might think what they're posting is a legitimate, but there's a very slim chance they would deliver.
That's the thing, I know guys like that. Heck, I worked for a guy like that.
He told all sorts of lies to major companies. But not because he wanted to screw over these companies. He believe so much in our company that he was willing to fib here and there to get contracts or investment money.
That's why I'm not willing to completely point my finger at anything and start yelling scam. Sometimes it's about something else.
So sure, it "could" be a scam or it "could" be a bunch of guy saying "heck we can do this, let's just do a kickstarter and take it from there."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The lead guy isn't even a computer guy. He was a waiter at a restaurant in NY before he lost his job and fiance. His friend Garrison supposedly did work for Apple, Google and Facebook. With a resume like that, he's probably a stellar know it all when it comes to computers. Yet somehow they came up with a $10k KS goal? Either they are 100% clueless or it's a scam, to which I say, DOA no matter what.
5-10k is the sweet spot for credit card debt. My guess without any 'proof' or 'evidence' is that in between the time he lost his job and had to move back home with his parents he accumulated some charges on his CC that he now needs to pay off. Why not use KS to do that seeing as no one cares about it and people just give free money. At this point I'm not sure if it can technically be categorized as even a white collar crime cause people have stolen millions and nothing ever is done about it.
from the KS description :
In March 2020, I was living in New York City, where I was struggling to pursue my aspirations.
things he didnt mention :
so i decided to scam a bunch of idiots for their lunch money so i can afford to rent an apartment .
lmao , hard pass on these KS scams ..
Which is the entire point of my argument. I'm not saying that you're wrong to like the editorial. I'm not saying that it's a bad "rant" either. But I am saying that there's news articles, like on MOP and the one that started this thread, which have their own purpose, love it or hate it, and then there are editorials that are meant to express an opinion.
In other words, Don't hate a fork for not being a spoon.
Do you believe it's legitimate?
If you were the editor of an MMO news website, having seen the kickstarter, would you put up a plain news article? Knowing full well that at least some of your readers would pledge, would you promote a fishy project just for the sake of having a news story?
I don't think it's legitimate. At least, not realistically legitimate - as in the developers might think what they're posting is a legitimate, but there's a very slim chance they would deliver.
That's the thing, I know guys like that. Heck, I worked for a guy like that.
He told all sorts of lies to major companies. But not because he wanted to screw over these companies. He believe so much in our company that he was willing to fib here and there to get contracts or investment money.
That's why I'm not willing to completely point my finger at anything and start yelling scam. Sometimes it's about something else.
So sure, it "could" be a scam or it "could" be a bunch of guy saying "heck we can do this, let's just do a kickstarter and take it from there."
The lead guy isn't even a computer guy. He was a waiter at a restaurant in NY before he lost his job and fiance. His friend Garrison supposedly did work for Apple, Google and Facebook. With a resume like that, he's probably a stellar know it all when it comes to computers. Yet somehow they came up with a $10k KS goal? Either they are 100% clueless or it's a scam, to which I say, DOA no matter what.
I don't even believe that new job, waiter, covid, fiance cringe story complete with faked choke up.
In his previous horseshit selling from late 2018 it was getting hit by taxis twice because he was wearing earbuds... the poor dear.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Me and a couple of the guys on here have decided to build a 3D open world MMORPG. It will be a fully featured PvE/PvP hybrid with all the bells and whistles.
We need 2k and the kick starter will be up shortly, we should be able to launch by June this year because I have to get out of my parents basement and find a real job.
I expect MMORPG.com to be giving me a PM soon so they can do an article about the project.
I noticed many were still hung up on that 10k.It is not 10k to build the game lol. Their investor IF that is real is the key component and not that 10k.The 10k is merely to get some free money,this is always what it is about.
I didn't see any mention of a July release which of course would be impossible and the mention of a years work is enough to warrant a KS'r again raises suspicion.
The idea of community assets again makes me wonder if this 10k is to merely buy the assets and not to hire employee/s,I think the mention of 10 additional employees is just a pipe dream.
All one has to do is look at the ARk's/Atlas amd Valheim's to realize you can make a decent game with few people.We also need to realzie that there needs to be outside influence,maybe as sketchy as stolen code or as mentioend community assets but two people are NOT making a decent game in 2 or 3 years.
If you have never seen his channel "Sid Alpha" you might find his content interesting as he targets scummy devs and ones breaking the law and trying to use the law in their favor to thwart criticism.Point being sketchy people reside within the gaming community,never trust any of them and imo never give to any KS'r.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
When i first saw this i thought it was Morheim's new con job ahem i mean studio but that is Dreamhaven not Dreamworld.
I guess some marketing there trying to realize a catchy title. I will say that my gut feeling is that this DreamWorld and even Morheim's con is just that,a con .
I feel all of these ventures have SOME idea of what they are doing but are simply relying on IF the money comes great,we can WING IT from here ,if not oh well nothing lost.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
for a half a second, I thought this was Dream World from Kongregate...
They couldn't even come up with a name for their game that hadn't already been taken? The better to claim that the game has launched as a way to defend against future lawsuits, I suppose.
This isn't news. This is free advertisement for an obvious scammer.
Stating red flags at the end of the article would not be opinion, it would be stating facts and giving proper context.
I'm really disappointed that this site published it.
Not an advertisement. And which "red flags" are you talking about? The low funding amount? That they have only 2 full time developers? That they couldn't give an answer on how they expect to complete the game?
All of that is in the article, as factual information. That is proper context. The facts of the situation. Stating that they are "red flags" is, in actuality, opinion. Any "proper context" would be reporting observations from other projects, like, "other kickstarters raised millions and failed to produce a game", factual, sure, but not associated with this project, and not indicative of a red flag either.
There's no curve or correct monetary number to factually be given to guarantee a successful MMO from kickstarter. Not 1 million. Not 350 million.
This isn't news. This is free advertisement for an obvious scammer.
Stating red flags at the end of the article would not be opinion, it would be stating facts and giving proper context.
I'm really disappointed that this site published it.
Not an advertisement. And which "red flags" are you talking about? The low funding amount? That they have only 2 full time developers? That they couldn't give an answer on how they expect to complete the game?
All of that is in the article, as factual information. That is proper context. The facts of the situation. Stating that they are "red flags" is, in actuality, opinion. Any "proper context" would be reporting observations from other projects, like, "other kickstarters raised millions and failed to produce a game", factual, sure, but not associated with this project, and not indicative of a red flag either.
There's no curve or correct monetary number to factually be given to guarantee a successful MMO from kickstarter. Not 1 million. Not 350 million.
That the Kickstarter gifs demonstrating "gameplay" used the default player model for the Unreal engine is a bit of a red flag, don't you think?
This isn't news. This is free advertisement for an obvious scammer.
Stating red flags at the end of the article would not be opinion, it would be stating facts and giving proper context.
I'm really disappointed that this site published it.
Not an advertisement. And which "red flags" are you talking about? The low funding amount? That they have only 2 full time developers? That they couldn't give an answer on how they expect to complete the game?
All of that is in the article, as factual information. That is proper context. The facts of the situation. Stating that they are "red flags" is, in actuality, opinion. Any "proper context" would be reporting observations from other projects, like, "other kickstarters raised millions and failed to produce a game", factual, sure, but not associated with this project, and not indicative of a red flag either.
There's no curve or correct monetary number to factually be given to guarantee a successful MMO from kickstarter. Not 1 million. Not 350 million.
That the Kickstarter gifs demonstrating "gameplay" used the default player model for the Unreal engine is a bit of a red flag, don't you think?
Sure, I think that. That's what makes it an opinion. There are a lot of red flags that I think are valuable to take into consideration if you want to back the project. Fortunately, reading the article gives me all the data to come up with the opinion that I will not be backing this game. I don't need the writer to tell me what to think.
What a weird thing to say on a site dedicated to game reviews, which are all just opinions, and in a forum that is nothing but opinions.
Is that what we're all doing? Jut telling @maskedweasel what to think?
I guess @Quizzical should stop giving us his opinions on new CPUs and GPUs and other HW and just stick to the facts instead of opinions on those facts. LMAO.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
You have to trust that readers can tell the difference between opinions and facts. There isn't a need to explicitly label every single opinion as such. Furthermore, even in an article that consists purely of facts, there's an enormous amount of opinion as to which facts are interesting enough to be worth including.
The real problem is not one of having some opinion mixed in. Rather it is when: 1) Statements that assert particular facts are untrue. 2) Statements that assert particular facts are technically true, but cherry-picked to be extremely misleading. 3) Statements that assert untrue facts are inserted by quoting someone else asserting it without checking whether it is true, in an attempt at convincing the reader that it is. An article may claim "person X says Y" (or worse, anonymous sources say Y), and that statement may be technically true even if Y is false. 4) Statements that assert facts without having the proper evidence, so that the claimed facts may or may not be true, and the person writing the article doesn't know. 5) Statements of opinion try to declare all contrary opinions illegitimate, such as by claiming that the experts say such and such, especially in cases where some experts disagree with the opinions presented. 6) Articles that go out of their way to try really hard to imply that something is true without quite stating it, especially when what they're trying to imply isn't actually true.
Those aren't mutually exclusive, of course. But they're all common, and far worse than correctly stating some relevant facts and adding your opinion about those facts.
This isn't news. This is free advertisement for an obvious scammer.
Stating red flags at the end of the article would not be opinion, it would be stating facts and giving proper context.
I'm really disappointed that this site published it.
Not an advertisement. And which "red flags" are you talking about? The low funding amount? That they have only 2 full time developers? That they couldn't give an answer on how they expect to complete the game?
All of that is in the article, as factual information. That is proper context. The facts of the situation. Stating that they are "red flags" is, in actuality, opinion. Any "proper context" would be reporting observations from other projects, like, "other kickstarters raised millions and failed to produce a game", factual, sure, but not associated with this project, and not indicative of a red flag either.
There's no curve or correct monetary number to factually be given to guarantee a successful MMO from kickstarter. Not 1 million. Not 350 million.
Red Flags:
“The endgame, it’s every genre, every game, every style, all wrapped into one.” $10,000 is all they need No Full names No credits No custom assets Funded in hours by whom exactly? As others have said it could have been themselves looking to get publicity and it worked
It is 100% a scam. guaranteed and it's filled with red flags.
This isn't news. This is free advertisement for an obvious scammer.
Stating red flags at the end of the article would not be opinion, it would be stating facts and giving proper context.
I'm really disappointed that this site published it.
Not an advertisement. And which "red flags" are you talking about? The low funding amount? That they have only 2 full time developers? That they couldn't give an answer on how they expect to complete the game?
All of that is in the article, as factual information. That is proper context. The facts of the situation. Stating that they are "red flags" is, in actuality, opinion. Any "proper context" would be reporting observations from other projects, like, "other kickstarters raised millions and failed to produce a game", factual, sure, but not associated with this project, and not indicative of a red flag either.
There's no curve or correct monetary number to factually be given to guarantee a successful MMO from kickstarter. Not 1 million. Not 350 million.
That the Kickstarter gifs demonstrating "gameplay" used the default player model for the Unreal engine is a bit of a red flag, don't you think?
Sure, I think that. That's what makes it an opinion. There are a lot of red flags that I think are valuable to take into consideration if you want to back the project. Fortunately, reading the article gives me all the data to come up with the opinion that I will not be backing this game. I don't need the writer to tell me what to think.
A red flag doesn't mean it's a scam - just that it's quite possible and should be reported as such. All of those concerns are worth mentioning for people who may not be knowledgeable to recognize them. That's solid reporting and not simply opinion based.
Comments
btw Ya'll giving this game all the hype it needs talking bad about it, now they hit 3x their goal.
However, if I hired someone to write news on MMO's and this was written as a news story, then I got what I paid for. The article isn't promoting the game, it's stating simply that it exists, and the information provided is factual as far as I can tell.
If I hired them for an editorial about this game, then I would probably have had them rewrite the article if this is what they submitted. It's not an editorial, there's no opinion, and tbh apart from the weird subject matter, it's not really that much of a stand out article from the other dozens out there about other games.
If I was the editor, and could choose between an editorial and a news piece on this game, which would I choose? I'd do both. I think there's room for factual information related to the project and a separate article ripping it to shreds. My personal feeling is that some games, at least initially, deserve an attempt at unbiased coverage. Even Chronicles of Elyria once had unbiased coverage here. ... once upon a time.
They definitely are different but both serve a useful purpose in their own way.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
5-10k is the sweet spot for credit card debt. My guess without any 'proof' or 'evidence' is that in between the time he lost his job and had to move back home with his parents he accumulated some charges on his CC that he now needs to pay off. Why not use KS to do that seeing as no one cares about it and people just give free money. At this point I'm not sure if it can technically be categorized as even a white collar crime cause people have stolen millions and nothing ever is done about it.
In March 2020, I was living in New York City, where I was struggling to pursue my aspirations.
things he didnt mention :
so i decided to scam a bunch of idiots for their lunch money so i can afford to rent an apartment .
lmao , hard pass on these KS scams ..
In his previous horseshit selling from late 2018 it was getting hit by taxis twice because he was wearing earbuds... the poor dear.
That "company" where he still lists himself as CEO, is still taking orders by the way:
https://coreaegis.world/collections/all
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
We need 2k and the kick starter will be up shortly, we should be able to launch by June this year because I have to get out of my parents basement and find a real job.
I expect MMORPG.com to be giving me a PM soon so they can do an article about the project.
Their investor IF that is real is the key component and not that 10k.The 10k is merely to get some free money,this is always what it is about.
I didn't see any mention of a July release which of course would be impossible and the mention of a years work is enough to warrant a KS'r again raises suspicion.
The idea of community assets again makes me wonder if this 10k is to merely buy the assets and not to hire employee/s,I think the mention of 10 additional employees is just a pipe dream.
All one has to do is look at the ARk's/Atlas amd Valheim's to realize you can make a decent game with few people.We also need to realzie that there needs to be outside influence,maybe as sketchy as stolen code or as mentioend community assets but two people are NOT making a decent game in 2 or 3 years.
If you have never seen his channel "Sid Alpha" you might find his content interesting as he targets scummy devs and ones breaking the law and trying to use the law in their favor to thwart criticism.Point being sketchy people reside within the gaming community,never trust any of them and imo never give to any KS'r.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I guess some marketing there trying to realize a catchy title.
I will say that my gut feeling is that this DreamWorld and even Morheim's con is just that,a con .
I feel all of these ventures have SOME idea of what they are doing but are simply relying on IF the money comes great,we can WING IT from here ,if not oh well nothing lost.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Stating red flags at the end of the article would not be opinion, it would be stating facts and giving proper context.
I'm really disappointed that this site published it.
All of that is in the article, as factual information. That is proper context. The facts of the situation. Stating that they are "red flags" is, in actuality, opinion. Any "proper context" would be reporting observations from other projects, like, "other kickstarters raised millions and failed to produce a game", factual, sure, but not associated with this project, and not indicative of a red flag either.
There's no curve or correct monetary number to factually be given to guarantee a successful MMO from kickstarter. Not 1 million. Not 350 million.
Is that what we're all doing? Jut telling @maskedweasel what to think?
I guess @Quizzical should stop giving us his opinions on new CPUs and GPUs and other HW and just stick to the facts instead of opinions on those facts. LMAO.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The real problem is not one of having some opinion mixed in. Rather it is when:
1) Statements that assert particular facts are untrue.
2) Statements that assert particular facts are technically true, but cherry-picked to be extremely misleading.
3) Statements that assert untrue facts are inserted by quoting someone else asserting it without checking whether it is true, in an attempt at convincing the reader that it is. An article may claim "person X says Y" (or worse, anonymous sources say Y), and that statement may be technically true even if Y is false.
4) Statements that assert facts without having the proper evidence, so that the claimed facts may or may not be true, and the person writing the article doesn't know.
5) Statements of opinion try to declare all contrary opinions illegitimate, such as by claiming that the experts say such and such, especially in cases where some experts disagree with the opinions presented.
6) Articles that go out of their way to try really hard to imply that something is true without quite stating it, especially when what they're trying to imply isn't actually true.
Those aren't mutually exclusive, of course. But they're all common, and far worse than correctly stating some relevant facts and adding your opinion about those facts.
/thread
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
“The endgame, it’s every genre, every game, every style, all wrapped into one.”
$10,000 is all they need
No Full names
No credits
No custom assets
Funded in hours by whom exactly? As others have said it could have been themselves looking to get publicity and it worked
It is 100% a scam. guaranteed and it's filled with red flags.