I won't touch this thing with a 10 foot pole for free let alone give them my money.
It boggles me that a struggling GAAS game would go full moron with a boneheaded move like this. In my opinion this just makes them look like a bunch of incompetent desperate dicks.
If they must resort to Easy Anti-Cheat and degrading name-shaming it tells me there are some huge flaws in their core game design. Don't take that out on the paying customers even if they are cheating. Ban them outright, but don't brand them with the idea that they'll keep spending money or promoting the game. It's just as fucked up as people cheating. What a dirtbag studio.
Uh oh, sounds like someone got busted!
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I won't touch this thing with a 10 foot pole for free let alone give them my money.
It boggles me that a struggling GAAS game would go full moron with a boneheaded move like this. In my opinion this just makes them look like a bunch of incompetent desperate dicks.
If they must resort to Easy Anti-Cheat and degrading name-shaming it tells me there are some huge flaws in their core game design. Don't take that out on the paying customers even if they are cheating. Ban them outright, but don't brand them with the idea that they'll keep spending money or promoting the game. It's just as fucked up as people cheating. What a dirtbag studio.
Uh oh, sounds like someone got busted!
I'm not sure if you're making a joke or not. I just think branding players to cover up poor design is horrible. It's degrading and a horrible way to treat people let alone paying customers. If you took the time to read my subsequent response to to another person trying the same lame gaslighting you would have seen that.
And I didn't get busted at anything. I certainly wouldn't give this studio my money.
Why does the watermark annoy you more than banning.
(Edit revised, I want to be clear, I am not calling or inferring that Torval is a cheater, I am simply wondering why they are more upset about this watermark, than they are about other means of punishment, like bans)
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I don't know. Putting cheaters to play with themselves is a better option than banning them imo. Shows them how others feel when they have to put up with their crap.
I don't know, putting cheaters to play with themselves is a better option than banning them imo. Shows them how others feel when they have to put up with their crap.
I totally agree with this as well, marking someone as a cheater, and then only letting them play in matches against other cheaters, is really a very a honest way to handle things, after all, if everyone is cheating, the game is fair.
It's only unfair when you have non-cheaters playing with cheaters.
This is another feature I wish high profile PvP Games did, where as opposed to bans, just allowed cheaters to together, on their own, in their own matchups.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Outriders is not a "GAAS" game, may i suggest you read up on what the game actually is?
If there is an account that they can take action on or modify your ability to play the game then it is a service game. If they also offer the ability to coop outside of their servers or play completely single player then it would a hybrid gaas model. They key here is whether you need an account to play and login.
I won't touch this thing with a 10 foot pole for free let alone give them my money.
It boggles me that a struggling GAAS game would go full moron with a boneheaded move like this. In my opinion this just makes them look like a bunch of incompetent desperate dicks.
If they must resort to Easy Anti-Cheat and degrading name-shaming it tells me there are some huge flaws in their core game design. Don't take that out on the paying customers even if they are cheating. Ban them outright, but don't brand them with the idea that they'll keep spending money or promoting the game. It's just as fucked up as people cheating. What a dirtbag studio.
I would rather they do exactly what they are doing. Don't ban them. Let them only play with other cheaters. Put a huge watermark in the corner for all to see. Works for me. All games should do this. Want to cheat in a game to make it look like you have accomplished something, that is fine you shouldn't lose your game for that. You should lose the ability to play with others that don't cheat though. Only people that would have a problem with this solution is most likely people that like to cheat in games.
You're going to try and gaslight me by saying I must be a cheater because I oppose unethical degrading business practices? Not surprising coming from someone so quick to defend such an abhorrent practice as branding people.
If you had taken the time to read and think before defending this then you would see I'm absolutely for banning cheaters. Cheaters have a negative impact in Fallout 76 but I am very much against branding people and creating "bad buy" groups to use as whipping boys.
This action smells like a desperate studio trying to deflect accountability for a bad game that is going to miss its sales target by country mile.
Maybe you missed the part where they said you can still play it single player. The auto match maker just matches you with other cheaters. Sounds fine to me. FYI, this isn't a GAS type game. It's a mostly single player/co-op game with no planned paid updates. So if these cheaters want to play, they can. They're just restricted to single player, other cheaters or friends.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I don't know, putting cheaters to play with themselves is a better option than banning them imo. Shows them how others feel when they have to put up with their crap.
I totally agree with this as well, marking someone as a cheater, and then only letting them play in matches against other cheaters, is really a very a honest way to handle things, after all, if everyone is cheating, the game is fair.
It's only unfair when you have non-cheaters playing with cheaters.
This is another feature I wish high profile PvP Games did, where as opposed to bans, just allowed cheaters to together, on their own, in their own matchups.
EQ2 did this and it didn't end up well. Not only did it just create a more toxic community, but it turned people nasty to each other. Other games have done this as well and it doesn't really solve the problem. What people did in those other games is abandon those accounts, make new ones and troll the game even harder. In fact when cheaters find out about this sort of thing they tend to make throwaway accounts to play little hacker games. Maybe they see it as some sort of challenge.
In principle I'm against branding anyone permanently for mistakes or dumb choices. A ban and having to buy the game again should be punishment enough. That's the likely outcome here anyway.
In any event it won't fix really kludgy game flaws that let people pull this stupid stuff. It just creates a more toxic environment. Fallout 76 has a huge cheater problem but I would hate if this was their answer. Fixing their janky engine would be the answer I'd like to see.
As far as I know, EQ2 had a lot of other issues and problems, and this was a non-issue.
There is no such thing as a cheat-proof game, and lets be honest, cheating a game that has decent anti-cheat programs or is a high profile game, or maybe both, is not a "Dumb Choice" it is a very direct active one, the player first needs to want to cheat to start with, and then they follow that up by finding a provider of said cheat program, if it high end game, this program will not come free. So now they are paying money to cheat in this game. Then they install this program on their system, and finally activate it while playing, enjoying all the power and augments it can give them.
So this has really passed the point of spur of the moment dumb decisions or mistakes, this is something done deliberately, and planned ahead.
So, tell me how a ban is somehow better in your mind then a watermark, if they both end in for the cheater needing to buy the game again.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I get why they are talking about it since it seems nobody can thwart cheating from their games but then that is just another reason to not play such games.I was heavily in to pvp shooters then one day i just had enough,cheating ruins the game so badly it is not worth the headache.
Cheaters hate other cheaters?That is a vague statement because i know from first hand convos within COD they praise each other.I was complaining on a server at how many were cheating and was bombarded by little kids telling me i was jealous and that the cheats are just smarter than me ..lol.
Then those little kids began begging the cheats askign where they could get the cheats.I just gave up,nobody cares,gaming run by little dumbass kids who think cheating is "cool".
Again, I would advise you to play more recent COD games on legit servers. It's come a long way... this is not the experience anymore.
War zone is packed with cheaters. Normally i think cheating accusations are overblown and i rarely come across someone who is 100% cheating, but warzone is BAD. Seems like at least every other game you come across someone cheating. I played Cold War a good bit and can't recall running into a definite cheater, but i would strongly advise not to play warzone
Most cheaters do indeed do it for the bragging rights. Getting caught and banned only makes it harder for the developers in the long run as the actual cheaters will alter their methods of input and advise others on how to avoid getting banned.
If you think this is a money-making move, it isn't. As branded players don't have to rebuy the game like banned players do on most games.
I personally agree with making cheaters play with each other and watermarking their games so that shared media notates that they have modified their game.
The game was designed for live co-op and at the end of the day it could negatively affect other players experiences and or give unrealistic expectations to those that are unaware.
EDIT: Valve has been displaying VAC bans on steam profiles for years and I've never seen a serious issue come of it. The only ones that complained were the cheaters themselves.
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." — Shigeru Miyamoto
I won't touch this thing with a 10 foot pole for free let alone give them my money.
It boggles me that a struggling GAAS game would go full moron with a boneheaded move like this. In my opinion this just makes them look like a bunch of incompetent desperate dicks.
If they must resort to Easy Anti-Cheat and degrading name-shaming it tells me there are some huge flaws in their core game design. Don't take that out on the paying customers even if they are cheating. Ban them outright, but don't brand them with the idea that they'll keep spending money or promoting the game. It's just as fucked up as people cheating. What a dirtbag studio.
If it was a single player game I would agree with you, but it is not. It is multiplayer. It is also not a GAAS game. It is just a multiplayer- coop FPS. (Similar to something like Borderlands or Remnant from the Ashes) I do agree that using a lame system like EAS is not ideal, but if that means they don't have to put as much effort into stopping cheaters and more into the game itself I am all for it. Banning people is not a good way to stop cheaters typically; all it does is cause them to get a new account and cheat again or cheat in another game.
I also love the idea of shaming people. If it were up to me, they would announce every time they ban someone along with their in game name. ;P They are ruining the experience for other players so they deserve to be shamed. As a side note: I don't really think this game is very good either way.
You can really tell who the cheaters are in here lol
This here shows a phenomenal lack of understanding of the majority of people that post here at mmorpg.com.
We in these forums like to argue, sometimes just for the sake of arguing, we like to take opposing views points and poke holes in each other arguments. Sometimes it degenerates but I like to think that eventually reason takes hold again.
Most of us try to argue the argument instead of attacking the person though I will admit we are all humans so sometimes fail.
Thing is though is if you stay here long enough you will eventually agree about something with someone you never thought you ever would.
Inferring like you are doing here that someone cheats or hacks because of of an argument or theory posted here....well
It makes statements like yours here just so much fodder and noise to most of us.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
You can really tell who the cheaters are in here lol
Not really but we can spot the dumbasses a mile away.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
This strikes me as strange. There are games where cheating wrecks the game for others, in which case, it should merit a ban, not a watermark. And in games where cheating doesn't matter, why do anything at all?
This strikes me as strange. There are games where cheating wrecks the game for others, in which case, it should merit a ban, not a watermark. And in games where cheating doesn't matter, why do anything at all?
Not just a watermark, but the cheater can only group with other cheaters in the multiplayer event.
The watermark is brilliant, because it removes all their gamer cred.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Apparently Hawthorne got it wrong and it's those who brand and publicly shame others forever who should be celebrated. It's like it's 1642 all over again... but now with internet!
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Just like the people in FPS games that gang up on the players making hackusations, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. No one and I mean no one who is a legitimate player will defend cheaters or their practices. They certainly won't attack someone for making a hackusation.
So, if you think branding cheaters is a bad idea, a waste of time or whatever, maybe you need to question your own moral compass. Why do you care if cheaters get branded? Are you a cheater? No? Then why the fuck are you arguing against this? The only type of person who would argue against this would be a cheater.
Why do I care if people are treated poorly? Because we're humans we should treat everyone with some amount of dignity. I can be both against cheating and against treating people in a degrading manner. I play Fallout 76 which is full of cheaters and it's frustrating.
Making unfounded "hackusations" as you call it is blatant lying because you're just saying it to disparage the character of another to win an argument. You're not okay with cheating but you're okay promoting lies to further your agenda? Would you be for a punishment system on these forums where accounts that told lies were branded that way and every time they post "LIAR" would be stamped on their post and maybe as their forum avatar, kind of like how they put "BANNED" across banned accounts? Because even those I disagree with your and your accusations I think that would be horrible.
I am for banning cheaters because it's a consequence and punishment for an action, like a fine. It is a one time consequence for a one time action. But I'm against making permanent judgements and branding people with those judgements forever. That goes beyond being punished for a mistake and it is dehumanizing.
Plus this doesn't stop anyone from cheating. If someone wants to avoid branding they will treat it like a ban and just buy another game key and account. But the overall atmosphere will be toxic, just like this forum thread. People willing to treat others poorly over a video game is concerning. I think it says more about a person's moral compass regarding how they treat people because that willingness to degrade others extends well beyond just a video game.
We have been over this.
Cheating in a game is never a "One Time Mistake".
The player first must chose to cheat, they have to make that conscious choice to want to cheat at the game to start with, this is not a Mistake, like Opps I Pressed the Wrong button and something happened that should not have. This a planned premeditated course of action.
They then need to find the provider of said cheat program, or make it themselves. This is not some One off Mistake, this a a direct, again, premediated course of action.
Depending on the quality of the game, these hack programs can cost money, so now they are investing real cash dollars into cheating in the game.
This is so far removed from a one time mistake than it is not even funny, as they have had a lot of things to think about up to this point, if they really wanted to cheat, and yes, they really, really, wanted to cheat.
Then they Download, and Install the Program, and finally Activate it.
There is nothing "Mistake" about this.
They deserve to be branded. Now if they want to throw that account away, and buy a new one to try and bypass the brand, even better. But, there is no way they didn't earn their scarlet letter in that regards.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Just like the people in FPS games that gang up on the players making hackusations, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. No one and I mean no one who is a legitimate player will defend cheaters or their practices. They certainly won't attack someone for making a hackusation.
So, if you think branding cheaters is a bad idea, a waste of time or whatever, maybe you need to question your own moral compass. Why do you care if cheaters get branded? Are you a cheater? No? Then why the fuck are you arguing against this? The only type of person who would argue against this would be a cheater.
Why do I care if people are treated poorly? Because we're humans we should treat everyone with some amount of dignity. I can be both against cheating and against treating people in a degrading manner. I play Fallout 76 which is full of cheaters and it's frustrating.
Making unfounded "hackusations" as you call it is blatant lying because you're just saying it to disparage the character of another to win an argument. You're not okay with cheating but you're okay promoting lies to further your agenda? Would you be for a punishment system on these forums where accounts that told lies were branded that way and every time they post "LIAR" would be stamped on their post and maybe as their forum avatar, kind of like how they put "BANNED" across banned accounts? Because even those I disagree with your and your accusations I think that would be horrible.
I am for banning cheaters because it's a consequence and punishment for an action, like a fine. It is a one time consequence for a one time action. But I'm against making permanent judgements and branding people with those judgements forever. That goes beyond being punished for a mistake and it is dehumanizing.
Plus this doesn't stop anyone from cheating. If someone wants to avoid branding they will treat it like a ban and just buy another game key and account. But the overall atmosphere will be toxic, just like this forum thread. People willing to treat others poorly over a video game is concerning. I think it says more about a person's moral compass regarding how they treat people because that willingness to degrade others extends well beyond just a video game.
We have been over this.
Cheating in a game is never a "One Time Mistake".
The player first must chose to cheat, they have to make that conscious choice to want to cheat at the game to start with, this is not a Mistake, like Opps I Pressed the Wrong button and something happened that should not have. This a planned premeditated course of action.
They then need to find the provider of said cheat program, or make it themselves. This is not some One off Mistake, this a a direct, again, premediated course of action.
Depending on the quality of the game, these hack programs can cost money, so now they are investing real cash dollars into cheating in the game.
This is so far removed from a one time mistake than it is not even funny, as they have had a lot of things to think about up to this point, if they really wanted to cheat, and yes, they really, really, wanted to cheat.
Then they Download, and Install the Program, and finally Activate it.
There is nothing "Mistake" about this.
They deserve to be branded. Now if they want to throw that account away, and buy a new one to try and bypass the brand, even better. But, there is no way they didn't earn their scarlet letter in that regards.
So you're saying it's "life without the possibility of parole" worthy then?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Apparently Hawthorne got it wrong and it's those who brand and publicly shame others forever who should be celebrated. It's like it's 1642 all over again... but now with internet!
I hate to say it, but if Troval is right, that they become even more toxic when called out, they deserve to be driven away, and it seems this method really gets under their skin and drives them nuts, which, makes it the far better method to remove them than simply banning them, as the more uncomfortable a game can make it's cheaters and drive them away, the better for the overall game in the long run.
Cheaters bring nothing positive to the game, and worse yet, they spend money on cheat programs, money that should have been paid into the game, instead is spent to cheat it.|
These are the exact kind of people that any company wants to remove from the client list.
I mean, really, no company wants clients that want to cheat and spend their money at their competitors.
So anything they can do, to irritate these cheaters into quitting for good, I am onboard for, the more uncomfortable they can make things for cheaters, the better.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Apparently Hawthorne got it wrong and it's those who brand and publicly shame others forever who should be celebrated. It's like it's 1642 all over again... but now with internet!
I hate to say it, but if Troval is right, that they become even more toxic when called out, they deserve to be driven away, and it seems this method really gets under their skin and drives them nuts, which, makes it the far better method to remove them than simply banning them, as the more uncomfortable a game can make it's cheaters and drive them away, the better for the overall game in the long run.
Cheaters bring nothing positive to the game, and worse yet, they spend money on cheat programs, money that should have been paid into the game, instead is spent to cheat it.|
These are the exact kind of people that any company wants to remove from the client list.
I mean, really, no company wants clients that want to cheat and spend their money at their competitors.
So anything they can do, to irritate these cheaters into quitting for good, I am onboard for, the more uncomfortable they can make things for cheaters, the better.
What % of cheaters do you think are actually detected? IDK myself but I suspect it's a % on the low side.
So what you end up with is some branded cheaters to make fun of and feel "safe" while playing right alongside many undetected ones with no clue who they are.
This won't solve cheating in games any more than any other anti-cheating initiative in any other game ever has.
Good PR though.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Apparently Hawthorne got it wrong and it's those who brand and publicly shame others forever who should be celebrated. It's like it's 1642 all over again... but now with internet!
I hate to say it, but if Troval is right, that they become even more toxic when called out, they deserve to be driven away, and it seems this method really gets under their skin and drives them nuts, which, makes it the far better method to remove them than simply banning them, as the more uncomfortable a game can make it's cheaters and drive them away, the better for the overall game in the long run.
Cheaters bring nothing positive to the game, and worse yet, they spend money on cheat programs, money that should have been paid into the game, instead is spent to cheat it.|
These are the exact kind of people that any company wants to remove from the client list.
I mean, really, no company wants clients that want to cheat and spend their money at their competitors.
So anything they can do, to irritate these cheaters into quitting for good, I am onboard for, the more uncomfortable they can make things for cheaters, the better.
What % of cheaters do you think are actually detected? IDK myself but I suspect it's a % on the low side.
So what you end up with is some branded cheaters to make fun of and feel "safe" while playing right alongside many undetected ones with no clue who they are.
This won't solve cheating in games any more than any other anti-cheating initiative in any other game ever has.
Good PR though.
It is good PR, as it functions like a "Beware of Dog" sign against cheaters, and instills fear before they even get to the game, making some of them just pass, which cannot be seen as a bad thing.
No doubt they will slam the game, and give it a 1 star, because they are butthurt about being thwarted.
As for the % caught, from what I have heard, from a QA tech in a AMA that dealt with finding cheaters, it depends on the kind of cheater, and to be fair, this was quite a few years ago, things might have changed a lot since then.
But this is what was explained.
You have the Troll Cheater, these cheaters do not care, they buy the hack programs, and turn those MF's up to 11 and just cheat their weaselly black guts out, to see how much damage they can do in a short a time as they can do it. These are very easy to catch, and make up the bulk of the cheaters banned by any game, they are the equal of low hanging fruit, and make the numbers look good.
On the flip side of this.
The hardest cheater to catch, is the bad player. They use cheat programs, but only to assist themselves, and end up only being on par to a decent player, they turn it up to 5, just to be competitive, and they use the hack programs simply because they lack the skill to really play the game as intended.
at least this is what I have been told, but not my field of expertise. So.. what do I know.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Just like the people in FPS games that gang up on the players making hackusations, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. No one and I mean no one who is a legitimate player will defend cheaters or their practices. They certainly won't attack someone for making a hackusation.
So, if you think branding cheaters is a bad idea, a waste of time or whatever, maybe you need to question your own moral compass. Why do you care if cheaters get branded? Are you a cheater? No? Then why the fuck are you arguing against this? The only type of person who would argue against this would be a cheater.
Why do I care if people are treated poorly? Because we're humans we should treat everyone with some amount of dignity. I can be both against cheating and against treating people in a degrading manner. I play Fallout 76 which is full of cheaters and it's frustrating.
Making unfounded "hackusations" as you call it is blatant lying because you're just saying it to disparage the character of another to win an argument. You're not okay with cheating but you're okay promoting lies to further your agenda? Would you be for a punishment system on these forums where accounts that told lies were branded that way and every time they post "LIAR" would be stamped on their post and maybe as their forum avatar, kind of like how they put "BANNED" across banned accounts? Because even those I disagree with your and your accusations I think that would be horrible.
I am for banning cheaters because it's a consequence and punishment for an action, like a fine. It is a one time consequence for a one time action. But I'm against making permanent judgements and branding people with those judgements forever. That goes beyond being punished for a mistake and it is dehumanizing.
Plus this doesn't stop anyone from cheating. If someone wants to avoid branding they will treat it like a ban and just buy another game key and account. But the overall atmosphere will be toxic, just like this forum thread. People willing to treat others poorly over a video game is concerning. I think it says more about a person's moral compass regarding how they treat people because that willingness to degrade others extends well beyond just a video game.
We have been over this.
Cheating in a game is never a "One Time Mistake".
The player first must chose to cheat, they have to make that conscious choice to want to cheat at the game to start with, this is not a Mistake, like Opps I Pressed the Wrong button and something happened that should not have. This a planned premeditated course of action.
They then need to find the provider of said cheat program, or make it themselves. This is not some One off Mistake, this a a direct, again, premediated course of action.
Depending on the quality of the game, these hack programs can cost money, so now they are investing real cash dollars into cheating in the game.
This is so far removed from a one time mistake than it is not even funny, as they have had a lot of things to think about up to this point, if they really wanted to cheat, and yes, they really, really, wanted to cheat.
Then they Download, and Install the Program, and finally Activate it.
There is nothing "Mistake" about this.
They deserve to be branded. Now if they want to throw that account away, and buy a new one to try and bypass the brand, even better. But, there is no way they didn't earn their scarlet letter in that regards.
So you're saying it's "life without the possibility of parole" worthy then?
If we are going to use Real Life examples, isn't Banning the same as the Death Penalty?
That is like asking, would you rather have a Scarlet letter or be Stoned to Death.
I can't be the only one wondering why some people would ask to be stoned to death.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Just like the people in FPS games that gang up on the players making hackusations, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. No one and I mean no one who is a legitimate player will defend cheaters or their practices. They certainly won't attack someone for making a hackusation.
So, if you think branding cheaters is a bad idea, a waste of time or whatever, maybe you need to question your own moral compass. Why do you care if cheaters get branded? Are you a cheater? No? Then why the fuck are you arguing against this? The only type of person who would argue against this would be a cheater.
Why do I care if people are treated poorly? Because we're humans we should treat everyone with some amount of dignity. I can be both against cheating and against treating people in a degrading manner. I play Fallout 76 which is full of cheaters and it's frustrating.
Making unfounded "hackusations" as you call it is blatant lying because you're just saying it to disparage the character of another to win an argument. You're not okay with cheating but you're okay promoting lies to further your agenda? Would you be for a punishment system on these forums where accounts that told lies were branded that way and every time they post "LIAR" would be stamped on their post and maybe as their forum avatar, kind of like how they put "BANNED" across banned accounts? Because even those I disagree with your and your accusations I think that would be horrible.
I am for banning cheaters because it's a consequence and punishment for an action, like a fine. It is a one time consequence for a one time action. But I'm against making permanent judgements and branding people with those judgements forever. That goes beyond being punished for a mistake and it is dehumanizing.
Plus this doesn't stop anyone from cheating. If someone wants to avoid branding they will treat it like a ban and just buy another game key and account. But the overall atmosphere will be toxic, just like this forum thread. People willing to treat others poorly over a video game is concerning. I think it says more about a person's moral compass regarding how they treat people because that willingness to degrade others extends well beyond just a video game.
We have been over this.
Cheating in a game is never a "One Time Mistake".
The player first must chose to cheat, they have to make that conscious choice to want to cheat at the game to start with, this is not a Mistake, like Opps I Pressed the Wrong button and something happened that should not have. This a planned premeditated course of action.
They then need to find the provider of said cheat program, or make it themselves. This is not some One off Mistake, this a a direct, again, premediated course of action.
Depending on the quality of the game, these hack programs can cost money, so now they are investing real cash dollars into cheating in the game.
This is so far removed from a one time mistake than it is not even funny, as they have had a lot of things to think about up to this point, if they really wanted to cheat, and yes, they really, really, wanted to cheat.
Then they Download, and Install the Program, and finally Activate it.
There is nothing "Mistake" about this.
They deserve to be branded. Now if they want to throw that account away, and buy a new one to try and bypass the brand, even better. But, there is no way they didn't earn their scarlet letter in that regards.
It depends on the nature of the game. In a single-player game where your "cheating" doesn't affect anyone else, I'd say go ahead and cheat. Make whatever modifications will make the game more fun for you to play. In some single-player games, I don't cheat at all. But in others, I'll resort to reloading old saves if something goes wrong, loading game mods, editing saved game files, using a built-in cheat console, or whatever makes the game more interesting.
If the game is multiplayer, then cheating ruins the game for others. But if that's the case, why not just ban the cheaters?
And if the game is mixed between single player and multiplayer, then why not treat them separately? Let people cheat however they want in the purely single-player portion, but without carrying the effects into multiplayer.
Just like the people in FPS games that gang up on the players making hackusations, the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree. No one and I mean no one who is a legitimate player will defend cheaters or their practices. They certainly won't attack someone for making a hackusation.
So, if you think branding cheaters is a bad idea, a waste of time or whatever, maybe you need to question your own moral compass. Why do you care if cheaters get branded? Are you a cheater? No? Then why the fuck are you arguing against this? The only type of person who would argue against this would be a cheater.
Why do I care if people are treated poorly? Because we're humans we should treat everyone with some amount of dignity. I can be both against cheating and against treating people in a degrading manner. I play Fallout 76 which is full of cheaters and it's frustrating.
Making unfounded "hackusations" as you call it is blatant lying because you're just saying it to disparage the character of another to win an argument. You're not okay with cheating but you're okay promoting lies to further your agenda? Would you be for a punishment system on these forums where accounts that told lies were branded that way and every time they post "LIAR" would be stamped on their post and maybe as their forum avatar, kind of like how they put "BANNED" across banned accounts? Because even those I disagree with your and your accusations I think that would be horrible.
I am for banning cheaters because it's a consequence and punishment for an action, like a fine. It is a one time consequence for a one time action. But I'm against making permanent judgements and branding people with those judgements forever. That goes beyond being punished for a mistake and it is dehumanizing.
Plus this doesn't stop anyone from cheating. If someone wants to avoid branding they will treat it like a ban and just buy another game key and account. But the overall atmosphere will be toxic, just like this forum thread. People willing to treat others poorly over a video game is concerning. I think it says more about a person's moral compass regarding how they treat people because that willingness to degrade others extends well beyond just a video game.
We have been over this.
Cheating in a game is never a "One Time Mistake".
The player first must chose to cheat, they have to make that conscious choice to want to cheat at the game to start with, this is not a Mistake, like Opps I Pressed the Wrong button and something happened that should not have. This a planned premeditated course of action.
They then need to find the provider of said cheat program, or make it themselves. This is not some One off Mistake, this a a direct, again, premediated course of action.
Depending on the quality of the game, these hack programs can cost money, so now they are investing real cash dollars into cheating in the game.
This is so far removed from a one time mistake than it is not even funny, as they have had a lot of things to think about up to this point, if they really wanted to cheat, and yes, they really, really, wanted to cheat.
Then they Download, and Install the Program, and finally Activate it.
There is nothing "Mistake" about this.
They deserve to be branded. Now if they want to throw that account away, and buy a new one to try and bypass the brand, even better. But, there is no way they didn't earn their scarlet letter in that regards.
It depends on the nature of the game. In a single-player game where your "cheating" doesn't affect anyone else, I'd say go ahead and cheat. Make whatever modifications will make the game more fun for you to play. In some single-player games, I don't cheat at all. But in others, I'll resort to reloading old saves if something goes wrong, loading game mods, editing saved game files, using a built-in cheat console, or whatever makes the game more interesting.
If the game is multiplayer, then cheating ruins the game for others. But if that's the case, why not just ban the cheaters?
And if the game is mixed between single player and multiplayer, then why not treat them separately? Let people cheat however they want in the purely single-player portion, but without carrying the effects into multiplayer.
I am of the belief that you can't cheat in a single player game, because cheating requires you to cheat someone else of something.
As such, as far as purely single player games, like Skyrim, or Sims, or some such, Using mods to enhance your own personal gameplay is not cheating as there is no one being cheated of anything.
As such banning their account for cheating, or not allowing them access to the single player mod, would be unjust. I also do not get how people are more for banning and against the watermark. Like, really?
However this makes sense to watermark their account, so if they upload a video, or screenshot, it's made clear that this is a modded game, and may be very different for anyone else expecting to experience the same thing in an unmodded game. Which, just makes sense really, from any standpoint.
However, The second other players are involved, then it becomes cheating if you are not playing fair with them.
Which is why I love the system they have set up to make cheaters only be able to play with other Cheaters, because if everyone is using a hack program then the game becomes fair again for all involved.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Uh oh, sounds like someone got busted!
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
(Edit revised, I want to be clear, I am not calling or inferring that Torval is a cheater, I am simply wondering why they are more upset about this watermark, than they are about other means of punishment, like bans)
It's only unfair when you have non-cheaters playing with cheaters.
This is another feature I wish high profile PvP Games did, where as opposed to bans, just allowed cheaters to together, on their own, in their own matchups.
Maybe you missed the part where they said you can still play it single player. The auto match maker just matches you with other cheaters. Sounds fine to me. FYI, this isn't a GAS type game. It's a mostly single player/co-op game with no planned paid updates. So if these cheaters want to play, they can. They're just restricted to single player, other cheaters or friends.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
There is no such thing as a cheat-proof game, and lets be honest, cheating a game that has decent anti-cheat programs or is a high profile game, or maybe both, is not a "Dumb Choice" it is a very direct active one, the player first needs to want to cheat to start with, and then they follow that up by finding a provider of said cheat program, if it high end game, this program will not come free. So now they are paying money to cheat in this game. Then they install this program on their system, and finally activate it while playing, enjoying all the power and augments it can give them.
So this has really passed the point of spur of the moment dumb decisions or mistakes, this is something done deliberately, and planned ahead.
So, tell me how a ban is somehow better in your mind then a watermark, if they both end in for the cheater needing to buy the game again.
War zone is packed with cheaters. Normally i think cheating accusations are overblown and i rarely come across someone who is 100% cheating, but warzone is BAD. Seems like at least every other game you come across someone cheating. I played Cold War a good bit and can't recall running into a definite cheater, but i would strongly advise not to play warzone
If you think this is a money-making move, it isn't. As branded players don't have to rebuy the game like banned players do on most games.
I personally agree with making cheaters play with each other and watermarking their games so that shared media notates that they have modified their game.
The game was designed for live co-op and at the end of the day it could negatively affect other players experiences and or give unrealistic expectations to those that are unaware.
EDIT: Valve has been displaying VAC bans on steam profiles for years and I've never seen a serious issue come of it. The only ones that complained were the cheaters themselves.
— Shigeru Miyamoto
If it was a single player game I would agree with you, but it is not. It is multiplayer. It is also not a GAAS game. It is just a multiplayer- coop FPS. (Similar to something like Borderlands or Remnant from the Ashes) I do agree that using a lame system like EAS is not ideal, but if that means they don't have to put as much effort into stopping cheaters and more into the game itself I am all for it. Banning people is not a good way to stop cheaters typically; all it does is cause them to get a new account and cheat again or cheat in another game. I also love the idea of shaming people. If it were up to me, they would announce every time they ban someone along with their in game name. ;P They are ruining the experience for other players so they deserve to be shamed. As a side note: I don't really think this game is very good either way.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The watermark is brilliant, because it removes all their gamer cred.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Cheating in a game is never a "One Time Mistake".
The player first must chose to cheat, they have to make that conscious choice to want to cheat at the game to start with, this is not a Mistake, like Opps I Pressed the Wrong button and something happened that should not have. This a planned premeditated course of action.
They then need to find the provider of said cheat program, or make it themselves. This is not some One off Mistake, this a a direct, again, premediated course of action.
Depending on the quality of the game, these hack programs can cost money, so now they are investing real cash dollars into cheating in the game.
This is so far removed from a one time mistake than it is not even funny, as they have had a lot of things to think about up to this point, if they really wanted to cheat, and yes, they really, really, wanted to cheat.
Then they Download, and Install the Program, and finally Activate it.
There is nothing "Mistake" about this.
They deserve to be branded. Now if they want to throw that account away, and buy a new one to try and bypass the brand, even better. But, there is no way they didn't earn their scarlet letter in that regards.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Cheaters bring nothing positive to the game, and worse yet, they spend money on cheat programs, money that should have been paid into the game, instead is spent to cheat it.|
These are the exact kind of people that any company wants to remove from the client list.
I mean, really, no company wants clients that want to cheat and spend their money at their competitors.
So anything they can do, to irritate these cheaters into quitting for good, I am onboard for, the more uncomfortable they can make things for cheaters, the better.
So what you end up with is some branded cheaters to make fun of and feel "safe" while playing right alongside many undetected ones with no clue who they are.
This won't solve cheating in games any more than any other anti-cheating initiative in any other game ever has.
Good PR though.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No doubt they will slam the game, and give it a 1 star, because they are butthurt about being thwarted.
As for the % caught, from what I have heard, from a QA tech in a AMA that dealt with finding cheaters, it depends on the kind of cheater, and to be fair, this was quite a few years ago, things might have changed a lot since then.
But this is what was explained.
You have the Troll Cheater, these cheaters do not care, they buy the hack programs, and turn those MF's up to 11 and just cheat their weaselly black guts out, to see how much damage they can do in a short a time as they can do it. These are very easy to catch, and make up the bulk of the cheaters banned by any game, they are the equal of low hanging fruit, and make the numbers look good.
On the flip side of this.
The hardest cheater to catch, is the bad player. They use cheat programs, but only to assist themselves, and end up only being on par to a decent player, they turn it up to 5, just to be competitive, and they use the hack programs simply because they lack the skill to really play the game as intended.
at least this is what I have been told, but not my field of expertise. So.. what do I know.
That is like asking, would you rather have a Scarlet letter or be Stoned to Death.
I can't be the only one wondering why some people would ask to be stoned to death.
If the game is multiplayer, then cheating ruins the game for others. But if that's the case, why not just ban the cheaters?
And if the game is mixed between single player and multiplayer, then why not treat them separately? Let people cheat however they want in the purely single-player portion, but without carrying the effects into multiplayer.
As such, as far as purely single player games, like Skyrim, or Sims, or some such, Using mods to enhance your own personal gameplay is not cheating as there is no one being cheated of anything.
As such banning their account for cheating, or not allowing them access to the single player mod, would be unjust. I also do not get how people are more for banning and against the watermark. Like, really?
However this makes sense to watermark their account, so if they upload a video, or screenshot, it's made clear that this is a modded game, and may be very different for anyone else expecting to experience the same thing in an unmodded game. Which, just makes sense really, from any standpoint.
However, The second other players are involved, then it becomes cheating if you are not playing fair with them.
Which is why I love the system they have set up to make cheaters only be able to play with other Cheaters, because if everyone is using a hack program then the game becomes fair again for all involved.