The Old Days, The New Days

Scot

Can I just point out I did not make this thread to discuss the Blizzard issue by stealth, so can keep of that, thanks.

Scot

Here is an idea, I am not even sure the site could do this:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Now I know what you are going to say, the "orange guy" who got a post deleted the other day is saying that will solve it.

It won't solve the problems 100% but it might be enough to keep the unacceptable posts down to an acceptable level if that makes sense.

cameltosis

Scot said:

Here is an idea, I am not even sure the site could do this:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Now I know what you are going to say, the "orange guy" who got a post deleted the other day is saying that will solve it.

It won't solve the problems 100% but it might be enough to keep the unacceptable posts down to an acceptable level if that makes sense.

If I was going to aim at some sort of automatic sensorship, I wouldn't use member status as the criteria.

Instead, I'd put in some logic like "if user has had any infraction in the last 6 months, don't let them post on this article"

Not that im a fan of automatic sensorship, but I can see why its useful. what will be more interesting is if / when various governments start treating tech firms as publishers. If that happens, it will dramatically change the way people interact on the internet.

Sovrath

Scot said:

Here is an idea, I am not even sure the site could do this:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Now I know what you are going to say, the "orange guy" who got a post deleted the other day is saying that will solve it.

It won't solve the problems 100% but it might be enough to keep the unacceptable posts down to an acceptable level if that makes sense.

Nah, that just creates an elitism and doesn't acknowledge new people to the site who might have a viable opinion.

Cameltosis' idea is better though I don't think it should be 6 months. Maybe two weeks or some such thing.

Mendel

Scot said:

Here is an idea, I am not even sure the site could do this:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Now I know what you are going to say, the "orange guy" who got a post deleted the other day is saying that will solve it.

It won't solve the problems 100% but it might be enough to keep the unacceptable posts down to an acceptable level if that makes sense.

Good idea, but that won't work in practice.

First, every opinion is valuable.  The guy who just posted his first response *might* be the one whose idea sparks a million dollar idea of your own.  Profane and illiterate need not apply.

Second, longevity and popularity isn't really a good basis for dividing any community.  That's exactly what the 'color' system here at MMORPG, a measure of popular participation over a long time.  Imagine if only the very oldest people could go to a nude beach.  Waitaminute... Europe.  Sorry for that image.

Third, new people without the ability to post will never 'advance' up the color scale.  A color-segregated community division never has the opportunity to learn from new members' experiences.  It essentially becomes another gaming echo-chamber.

Fourth, it assumes that all unacceptable posts come from members further down the 'color' scale.  I find that not to be true at all.  We're all equal opportunity offenders, here.

It's good that you're thinking of a solution, but one that isn't so divisive would work a bit better.

Slapshot1188

tzervo said:

Scot said:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Scandal! I'm being oppressed. That's favoritism.

Oh wait I'm purple. Good idea! 

Too lenient.  I say screw Orange and Purple.   Only those who TRULY have proven themselves as the Paragons of MMORPG (Or have enjoyed the Capt. LOL boost) should be able to post on such sensitive topics.   Let the all time- Leaderboard dictate all:  
https://forums.mmorpg.com/activity

Asm0deus

Slapshot1188 said:

tzervo said:

Scot said:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Scandal! I'm being oppressed. That's favoritism.

Oh wait I'm purple. Good idea! 

Too lenient.  I say screw Orange and Purple.   Only those who TRULY have proven themselves as the Paragons of MMORPG (Or have enjoyed the Capt. LOL boost) should be able to post on such sensitive topics.   Let the all time- Leaderboard dictate all:  
https://forums.mmorpg.com/activity

Now if something in this forum needs to be junked its this leaderboard...lmao

Didn't even know we had one and what a useless thing to have.......

nurso

tzervo said:

The issue was that Mr Jacobs refused to even post that question with a "no comment due to legal reasons" and threw his toys out the window refusing to answer all questions.

It was really bizarre. MJ could not answer a question for legal reason. Bree said they would not publish a partial interview. MJ said he did not even want this question to appear. Bree said, to bad, every question that is not answered defaults to "refused to answer" (or something like that). MJ then puts the questions aside and Bree began her months long baiting, as cameltosis already wrote.

AlBQuirky

Iselin said:

How this site decides to moderate and how any employer treats their employees are not even in the same universe of egregiousness. 

You keep telling yourself that.

Moving on since you don't wish to even civilly discuss.

AlBQuirky

Slapshot1188 said:

tzervo said:

Scot said:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Scandal! I'm being oppressed. That's favoritism.

Oh wait I'm purple. Good idea! 

Too lenient.  I say screw Orange and Purple.   Only those who TRULY have proven themselves as the Paragons of MMORPG (Or have enjoyed the Capt. LOL boost) should be able to post on such sensitive topics.   Let the all time- Leaderboard dictate all:  
https://forums.mmorpg.com/activity

I think they helped me get to Purple

I'll have to recuse myself on the basis on not "virtue-signalling" at all

Scot

Sovrath said:

Scot said:

Here is an idea, I am not even sure the site could do this:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Now I know what you are going to say, the "orange guy" who got a post deleted the other day is saying that will solve it.

It won't solve the problems 100% but it might be enough to keep the unacceptable posts down to an acceptable level if that makes sense.

Nah, that just creates an elitism and doesn't acknowledge new people to the site who might have a viable opinion.

Cameltosis' idea is better though I don't think it should be 6 months. Maybe two weeks or some such thing.

I have already moved on, this is a much better way. It would require the board to be able to automatically flag those who had a temporary ban, warning or deleted post (yes me!) and then allow some articles to be flagged not for "offenders". Not sure how easy that would be to do mind you.

Only issue with it, what happens once the temporary suspension of posting rights on the designated threads expires? So you can't post on those threads straight away, but you can two weeks (or whatever) later once you are off the "naughty list"? This might require those threads getting locked at the two week point after publishing just to stop that, which I would be fine with.

Scot

Slapshot1188 said:

tzervo said:

Scot said:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Scandal! I'm being oppressed. That's favoritism.

Oh wait I'm purple. Good idea! 

Too lenient.  I say screw Orange and Purple.   Only those who TRULY have proven themselves as the Paragons of MMORPG (Or have enjoyed the Capt. LOL boost) should be able to post on such sensitive topics.   Let the all time- Leaderboard dictate all:  
https://forums.mmorpg.com/activity

I did not even realise we had a leader board, Suzie showing how to engage with a community in a way that I am not sure you would see in any gaming forum these days? I notice even though I am beating the cat currently, he is top cat in the all time rating.

Kyleran

Asm0deus said:

Slapshot1188 said:

tzervo said:

Scot said:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Scandal! I'm being oppressed. That's favoritism.

Oh wait I'm purple. Good idea! 

Too lenient.  I say screw Orange and Purple.   Only those who TRULY have proven themselves as the Paragons of MMORPG (Or have enjoyed the Capt. LOL boost) should be able to post on such sensitive topics.   Let the all time- Leaderboard dictate all:  
https://forums.mmorpg.com/activity

Now if something in this forum needs to be junked its this leaderboard...lmao

Didn't even know we had one and what a useless thing to have.......

Says the guy whose not on it.  

Looks like I'm having a slow week though, better up my game.

Slapshot1188

Kyleran said:

Asm0deus said:

Slapshot1188 said:

tzervo said:

Scot said:

Instead of a full ban on comments, how about only letting those who are Purple and Orange comment? That's still censorship, but not as bad as the fully blown version.

Scandal! I'm being oppressed. That's favoritism.

Oh wait I'm purple. Good idea! 

Too lenient.  I say screw Orange and Purple.   Only those who TRULY have proven themselves as the Paragons of MMORPG (Or have enjoyed the Capt. LOL boost) should be able to post on such sensitive topics.   Let the all time- Leaderboard dictate all:  
https://forums.mmorpg.com/activity

Now if something in this forum needs to be junked its this leaderboard...lmao

Didn't even know we had one and what a useless thing to have.......

Says the guy whose not on it.  

Looks like I'm having a slow week though, better up my game.

I was going to give you a reaction but realized that would help you on the Leaderboard.  Cannot have that.  You might get the best offers from the next company.

KnightFalz

kitarad said:

Yeah well even as they are hooked up to a ventilator and having difficulty breathing they are insisting it is the flu. There is nothing you can do to dissuade a person from their beliefs short of them dying from it.

There is a thread of reasoning to that belief. Influenza can lead to pneumonia which in extreme cases can lead to the need for a ventilator. Combined with an obstinate disbelief in the threat of Covid-19 I can see it being convincing.

KnightFalz

Scot said:

I would ask posters to try to make sure a thread about censorship is not censored. A calm post keeps everyone calm.

But I don't have enough irony in my diet.

lahnmir

KnightFalz said:

Scot said:

I would ask posters to try to make sure a thread about censorship is not censored. A calm post keeps everyone calm.

But I don't have enough irony in my diet.

I’ve read that a nice glass of white whine during dinner can fix that.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Scot

MikeB said:

Iselin said:

There's a crowd here that either doesn't have a normal outlet to discuss their far right politics or they do and still want to constantly inject it into topics here because... I really don't know... so I'll just go with "reasons."

Frankly IMO, It's about time those articles got locked because a large portion of the crowd here don't deserve the opportunity to spew their hateful bile every fucking day on every fucking thread.

We're all tired of it, too. And we're going to be unceremoniously ejecting these people from the forums. If your aim is to be posting "woke" this or "SJW" that here (or worse) then you're gonna have a bad time. Let me state  in no uncertain terms that these people are not at all welcome on our forums. I'm sure you've seen some regulars around here that may have previously skirted the line issued bans over the last week or two. Those bans are permanent.

If reading this has you worried, well, you probably should be. This isn't a slippery slope to censorship or anything. We don't care if you hate or love X or Y game, developer, or what have you. This isn't even about your garden variety trolling, lapses of judgment we all have posting on forums from time to time, or even just skeptical or cynical views some people have on all sorts of topics. It's about the inability for some people to show basic human decency and empathy. We simply have no room for those people here. I don't think I can be any more clear on this.

As for the broader issue, feel free to create your own threads on the Blizzard topics, but editorial doesn't want those comments opened given the tenor of the forums and until that changes, certain articles will have their comments disabled at their discretion. We're absolutely open to revisiting this in the future if things change around here.

I've been here for 10+ years. You all know me and the space I've tried to give you over the years, but this is an issue that we have to get under control. The stuff we're seeing, particularly over the last few years, is disgusting both to me and to everyone who works here and we're just done with it.

It is good to have some feedback Mike as to why this change has happened, the only thing that concerns me about what you have said is should not posters have been given a temporary ban before they got a permanent one, but then maybe they have? I do have a "can we bring them round" attitude but I appreciate it is not me having to wade though the detritus of posts we sometimes get. I say sometimes, I think on the whole we have a good community.

It is fair that we can open our own open threads on the issue, I am sure some posters will run with that. The topics with no comments usually do not interest me enough to do that, though I will comment myself.

Finally we have known you a long time, that does engender trust and I am sure you are acting in good faith. Thanks for putting up with us all these years.

cheyane

I think many of them have been banned before and I personally recall them being banned before. In the past they had a 3 strikes rule where you get banned a certain number of times then it becomes permanent but they removed that. So I suppose some of them may be a little surprised that this time it is permanent.

I think that the site has the right to regulate what is happening here. I honestly am tired of seeing the same rhetoric and catch phrases being used and hate spewed in many sites I go to. Don't even let me get started on youtube comments. Even my poor uploads have not escaped them.
 
I also think that it is purely disingenuous to complain it is egregious when they know perfectly well what they were doing.

Scot

cheyane said:

I think many of them have been banned before and I personally recall them being banned before. In the past they had a 3 strikes rule where you get banned a certain number of times then it becomes permanent but they removed that. So I suppose some of them may be a little surprised that this time it is permanent.

I think that the site has the right to regulate what is happening here. I honestly am tired of seeing the same rhetoric and catch phrases being used and hate spewed in many sites I go to. Don't even let me get started on youtube comments. Even my poor uploads have not escaped them.
 
I also think that it is purely disingenuous to complain it is egregious when they know perfectly well what they were doing.

I think it is very likely they were banned multiple times before, but just making sure that they still get a second chance, or indeed third. To me though Cheyane, rhetoric and catch phrases are used by all sides as is swearing. In fact it the swearing that bothers me the most as it shows you have lost your ability to rationally debate.

Iselin

tzervo said:

Scot said:

I think it is very likely they were banned multiple times before, but just making sure that they still get a second chance, or indeed third.

Not all of them and this is what worries me. I was surprised for example to see Amaranthar get banned. I found myself constantly arguing against him and being at odds with him but never in a non-civil way. He never struck me as hateful, lacking human decency or non-empathic. Others too.

And I have seen many posts being deleted recently. I understand the site's need to keep things under control but I am concerned about censorship and/or overcompensation and I personally don't like it.

Did you see the post that triggered his ban?

Here I'll link it for you: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/494925/walkouts-equity-and-wokeness#latest

Maybe you don't consider the use of "woke" and "SJW" as offensive and I wouldn't blame you if you don't because its widespread use on the internet as well as the unchecked use of it here for months or even years probably has desensitized many to the ironic insult that it is.

But some people do consider those terms offensive as political hate terms.

The hateful comment major infraction language on this site has always included political beliefs in their criteria:

• Hateful content includes, but is not limited to, discriminating comments about: race, ethnicity (what country someone is from), religion, age, gender, sexuality, socioeconomic status and political beliefs. MMORPG.com holds complete and total discretion to decide what is hateful.

Even if you disagree with the hateful content reason for a ban, just WTF was the purpose of even creating that thread in a gaming forum? If nothing else its intent and content were 100% political with zero relevance to games or gaming.

Slapshot1188

Iselin said:

tzervo said:

Scot said:

I think it is very likely they were banned multiple times before, but just making sure that they still get a second chance, or indeed third.

Not all of them and this is what worries me. I was surprised for example to see Amaranthar get banned. I found myself constantly arguing against him and being at odds with him but never in a non-civil way. He never struck me as hateful, lacking human decency or non-empathic. Others too.

And I have seen many posts being deleted recently. I understand the site's need to keep things under control but I am concerned about censorship and/or overcompensation and I personally don't like it.

Did you see the post that triggered his ban?

Here I'll link it for you: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/494925/walkouts-equity-and-wokeness#latest

Maybe you don't consider the use of "woke" and "SJW" as offensive and I wouldn't blame you if you don't because its widespread use on the internet as well as the unchecked use of it here for months or even years probably has desensitized many to the ironic insult that it is.

But some people do consider those terms offensive as political hate terms.

The hateful comment major infraction language on this site has always included political beliefs in their criteria:

• Hateful content includes, but is not limited to, discriminating comments about: race, ethnicity (what country someone is from), religion, age, gender, sexuality, socioeconomic status and political beliefs. MMORPG.com holds complete and total discretion to decide what is hateful.

Even if you disagree with the hateful content reason for a ban, just WTF was the purpose of even creating that thread in a gaming forum? If nothing else its intent and content were 100% political with zero relevance to games or gaming.

Sure I kind of agree, but right now I can go find countless incidents of people being called "Boomer" or "old people", "Grandpa",  "Karen"...

You may not see those terms as hateful or offensive but they fall into the very same paragraph you quote.  All I ask for is consistency and balance.  If we can stop ALL that crap I think we will be better off.

Kyleran

Scot said:

cheyane said:

I think many of them have been banned before and I personally recall them being banned before. In the past they had a 3 strikes rule where you get banned a certain number of times then it becomes permanent but they removed that. So I suppose some of them may be a little surprised that this time it is permanent.

I think that the site has the right to regulate what is happening here. I honestly am tired of seeing the same rhetoric and catch phrases being used and hate spewed in many sites I go to. Don't even let me get started on youtube comments. Even my poor uploads have not escaped them.
 
I also think that it is purely disingenuous to complain it is egregious when they know perfectly well what they were doing.

I think it is very likely they were banned multiple times before, but just making sure that they still get a second chance, or indeed third. To me though Cheyane, rhetoric and catch phrases are used by all sides as is swearing. In fact it the swearing that bothers me the most as it shows you have lost your ability to rationally debate.

WTF?

Scot

Slapshot1188 said:

Iselin said:

tzervo said:

Scot said:

I think it is very likely they were banned multiple times before, but just making sure that they still get a second chance, or indeed third.

Not all of them and this is what worries me. I was surprised for example to see Amaranthar get banned. I found myself constantly arguing against him and being at odds with him but never in a non-civil way. He never struck me as hateful, lacking human decency or non-empathic. Others too.

And I have seen many posts being deleted recently. I understand the site's need to keep things under control but I am concerned about censorship and/or overcompensation and I personally don't like it.

Did you see the post that triggered his ban?

Here I'll link it for you: https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/494925/walkouts-equity-and-wokeness#latest

Maybe you don't consider the use of "woke" and "SJW" as offensive and I wouldn't blame you if you don't because its widespread use on the internet as well as the unchecked use of it here for months or even years probably has desensitized many to the ironic insult that it is.

But some people do consider those terms offensive as political hate terms.

The hateful comment major infraction language on this site has always included political beliefs in their criteria:

• Hateful content includes, but is not limited to, discriminating comments about: race, ethnicity (what country someone is from), religion, age, gender, sexuality, socioeconomic status and political beliefs. MMORPG.com holds complete and total discretion to decide what is hateful.

Even if you disagree with the hateful content reason for a ban, just WTF was the purpose of even creating that thread in a gaming forum? If nothing else its intent and content were 100% political with zero relevance to games or gaming.

Sure I kind of agree, but right now I can go find countless incidents of people being called "Boomer" or "old people", "Grandpa",  "Karen"...

You may not see those terms as hateful or offensive but they fall into the very same paragraph you quote.  All I ask for is consistency and balance.  If we can stop ALL that crap I think we will be better off.

Some posters here think this is about one side, those comments are used by all. Another one all sides use is "get informed, inform yourself" and so on; basically you are an idiot, go do some reading.

A lot of this seems to me down to a checklist of "fashionably" offensive things. So not everything is seen in the same light, for example I and many others have been told in various ways we are too old for gaming, its all rose tinted and so on. But because ageism is not as important as other "isms and ists" I doubt anyone would get banned for that nor do I think they should be, that's why I see a level of "fashionable" outrage here, which changes over time.

I am not entirely sure what Amaranthar was getting getting at in that thread, but I can see how it could be regarded as offensive. Was it offensive enough for a ban, I have to say I am not sure but on the balance some sanction had to be made. I presume it is a temporary ban, I have never seen him say such things before. But like I mentioned earlier I am not looking out for these things maybe he did and I missed it.

What I would say to Zegaloth is are words as outrageous as physical acts? Indeed to me  saying something someone can hear that is a racial slur is far more physical than the internet. What I am getting at is should all such issues be dealt with equally? I can see the argument for that, but it does seem to me that there is a reason why in law we give those convicted variable sentences, not every offence is the same.

It strikes me having posted, that those who are "fed up to the teeth" may see what some of us are saying as "excuses". I would not want anyone to think I am excusing them from what they have said, they still need sanction, it is just what sanction is applicable?

[Deleted User]

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