The Old Days, The New Days

Theocritus

"I understand that the term "SJW" annoys you"

I dont even know what the term means and I dont think I want to know...Often ignorance is bliss.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kyleran

Wargfoot said:

Theocritus said:

"I understand that the term "SJW" annoys you"

I dont even know what the term means and I dont think I want to know...Often ignorance is bliss.

Social Justice Warrior

That sounds like a good thing (and being for social justice is a good thing) but usually it is used in a derogatory sense to paint someone as an overly emotional bug-eyed virtue signaling tit.  Think: Someone with no life experience, purple hair, sipping on a $7 latte telling you how you should live your life.  Antonym: Right wing troll.

It's funny how words can be used.

If someone was described as a warrior for social justice it probably would be considered a compliment.

But turning it around to SJW and it becomes a derogatory label.

It isn't really the "words" written or said, but rather the ideas they communicate to others.

But I think most conflict could be avoided if people would follow this wise sage's advice.



RIP Patrick.

Happy Friday folks.

AlBQuirky

MikeB said:

Iselin said:

There's a crowd here that either doesn't have a normal outlet to discuss their far right politics or they do and still want to constantly inject it into topics here because... I really don't know... so I'll just go with "reasons."

Frankly IMO, It's about time those articles got locked because a large portion of the crowd here don't deserve the opportunity to spew their hateful bile every fucking day on every fucking thread.

We're all tired of it, too. And we're going to be unceremoniously ejecting these people from the forums. If your aim is to be posting "woke" this or "SJW" that here (or worse) then you're gonna have a bad time. Let me state  in no uncertain terms that these people are not at all welcome on our forums. I'm sure you've seen some regulars around here that may have previously skirted the line issued bans over the last week or two. Those bans are permanent.

If reading this has you worried, well, you probably should be. This isn't a slippery slope to censorship or anything. We don't care if you hate or love X or Y game, developer, or what have you. This isn't even about your garden variety trolling, lapses of judgment we all have posting on forums from time to time, or even just skeptical or cynical views some people have on all sorts of topics. It's about the inability for some people to show basic human decency and empathy. We simply have no room for those people here. I don't think I can be any more clear on this.

As for the broader issue, feel free to create your own threads on the Blizzard topics, but editorial doesn't want those comments opened given the tenor of the forums and until that changes, certain articles will have their comments disabled at their discretion. We're absolutely open to revisiting this in the future if things change around here.

I've been here for 10+ years. You all know me and the space I've tried to give you over the years, but this is an issue that we have to get under control. The stuff we're seeing, particularly over the last few years, is disgusting both to me and to everyone who works here and we're just done with it.

Does this also pertain to the posters that insert their "lefty" ideology into conversations about gaming? I'm also sick and tired of the inability to get away from the virtue signaling that infests all forms of entertainment.

"Rules for thee, not for me?"

This site has definitive rules against political and religious discussions. That is a good rule, especially on a gaming site. I see more insertions of politics from the left who desire that "everyone" think as they do, or they're defective (not human).

If you feel the need to "kick me off" because I don't agree with lefty politics and need to silence any other viewpoints, go ahead. I can go elsewhere, though that is getting harder and harder to do, thanks to lefty's incessant need to "preach their religion" to all.

I will continue to point out the "other side" (rational) when the political subject gets inserted.

Kyleran

AlBQuirky said:

MikeB said:

Iselin said:

There's a crowd here that either doesn't have a normal outlet to discuss their far right politics or they do and still want to constantly inject it into topics here because... I really don't know... so I'll just go with "reasons."

Frankly IMO, It's about time those articles got locked because a large portion of the crowd here don't deserve the opportunity to spew their hateful bile every fucking day on every fucking thread.

We're all tired of it, too. And we're going to be unceremoniously ejecting these people from the forums. If your aim is to be posting "woke" this or "SJW" that here (or worse) then you're gonna have a bad time. Let me state  in no uncertain terms that these people are not at all welcome on our forums. I'm sure you've seen some regulars around here that may have previously skirted the line issued bans over the last week or two. Those bans are permanent.

If reading this has you worried, well, you probably should be. This isn't a slippery slope to censorship or anything. We don't care if you hate or love X or Y game, developer, or what have you. This isn't even about your garden variety trolling, lapses of judgment we all have posting on forums from time to time, or even just skeptical or cynical views some people have on all sorts of topics. It's about the inability for some people to show basic human decency and empathy. We simply have no room for those people here. I don't think I can be any more clear on this.

As for the broader issue, feel free to create your own threads on the Blizzard topics, but editorial doesn't want those comments opened given the tenor of the forums and until that changes, certain articles will have their comments disabled at their discretion. We're absolutely open to revisiting this in the future if things change around here.

I've been here for 10+ years. You all know me and the space I've tried to give you over the years, but this is an issue that we have to get under control. The stuff we're seeing, particularly over the last few years, is disgusting both to me and to everyone who works here and we're just done with it.

Does this also pertain to the posters that insert their "lefty" ideology into conversations about gaming? I'm also sick and tired of the inability to get away from the virtue signaling that infests all forms of entertainment.

"Rules for thee, not for me?"

This site has definitive rules against political and religious discussions. That is a good rule, especially on a gaming site. I see more insertions of politics from the left who desire that "everyone" think as they do, or they're defective (not human).

If you feel the need to "kick me off" because I don't agree with lefty politics and need to silence any other viewpoints, go ahead. I can go elsewhere, though that is getting harder and harder to do, thanks to lefty's incessant need to "preach their religion" to all.

I will continue to point out the "other side" (rational) when the political subject gets inserted.

I think the optimal response would be to just report them and move on, no need to challenge the other side with an opposing viewpoint, especially if off topic or political in nature.

Do understand the other side sees their viewpoint as the more "rational" one.

Sometimes it helps to try and understand where they are coming from, who knows, you might even find yourself in agreement with them one day.

Scot

I think challenging the staff about your own views is the wrong way to go, I doubt anyone here is always going to agree with what the staff thinks, but banging a drum about it is counterproductive. It is their site, we should work within their framework, even if we don't always agree with it.

It is possible to make your voice heard without poking other players in the eye while you do so. Also using bold text, excessive capitals or swearing just makes us sound angry, which rather makes it easier for someone to accuse you of  being "hateful" when that's not where you are going from at all.

It seems to me that both sides are "fed up to the teeth with each other", if we only have a war then all you will get is escalating tension, if you see this as a problem then you may be able to come to an accord.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Nanfoodle

mmorpg.com will only make money if they can bring in sponsored articles. Thats a fact. If its hurting their business, they should just ban people from sponsored articles if they get out of line but let them post on the open forums IMO. I will say this, I have given feedback in sponsored articles, like the website you can buy windows keys for cheap. They are a scam and not selling legit keys. So this site is also to blame.    

maskedweasel

There was a time when mods would edit posts just to remove the parts that were inflammatory. I don't know if that's the better option then just deleting the post. It's definitely easier just to remove posts that break rules, but in many ways, editing the posts, so points stand but negative comments being removed at least shows more of the community what parts are and are not tolerated. 

There are a lot of posts still on the forums. Not as many as there used to be, but it's still enough that moderation can't handle it all, so that's likely why it's far easier just to nuke posters than try and keep up with every post that might break the rules. 

Asm0deus

This is a gaming website politics/religion should not be allowed period, anyone whether they lefty, righty, black or white etc etc that turns the conversation towards that should have their post removed and get a warning/ban.

Seems to me these two rules were relaxed way too much in recent years.....seems like every thread almost devolves into such conversation and political/religious ethical chest thumping.

https://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers#conduct

Religion and Politics

MMORPG.com is a site to discuss massively multiplayer online roleplay gaming. While users are encouraged and permitted to use our Off-Topic forum to discuss real life and non-MMORPG gaming, threads concerning sensitive subjects such as religion, politics, or ethics are forbidden.

Topic Hijacking

Posting comments within a thread which severely disrupts the original conversation is prohibited at MMORPG.com. Example: Asking whether a game has PvP in a thread about crafting materials found in a new expansion is Topic Hijacking.

[Deleted User]

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Sovrath

Wargfoot said:

Kyleran said:
I think the optimal response would be to just report them and move on, no need to challenge the other side with an opposing viewpoint, especially if off topic or political in nature.

Do understand the other side sees their viewpoint as the more "rational" one.

Sometimes it helps to try and understand where they are coming from, who knows, you might even find yourself in agreement with them one day.

I highly recommend the use of the 'ignore' feature.

Or one could just ignore it without the use of a feature but that seems too much for some. As if everything has to be a fight.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Sovrath

Wargfoot said:

Sovrath said:

Wargfoot said:

Kyleran said:
I think the optimal response would be to just report them and move on, no need to challenge the other side with an opposing viewpoint, especially if off topic or political in nature.

Do understand the other side sees their viewpoint as the more "rational" one.

Sometimes it helps to try and understand where they are coming from, who knows, you might even find yourself in agreement with them one day.

I highly recommend the use of the 'ignore' feature.

Or one could just ignore it without the use of a feature but that seems too much for some. As if everything has to be a fight.

Our culture primes us to fight.
We're cheered on by the media.

It takes quite a bit of work to maintain one's peace.

Well, I think we make our culture, and given that we live in a world filled with billions of people with all sorts of different opinions, beliefs, it's just easier to live and let live.

Otherwise, everything is going to be a fight. Who wants to live that way? I certainly don't.

AlBQuirky

Kyleran said:

AlBQuirky said:

MikeB said:

Iselin said:

There's a crowd here that either doesn't have a normal outlet to discuss their far right politics or they do and still want to constantly inject it into topics here because... I really don't know... so I'll just go with "reasons."

Frankly IMO, It's about time those articles got locked because a large portion of the crowd here don't deserve the opportunity to spew their hateful bile every fucking day on every fucking thread.

We're all tired of it, too. And we're going to be unceremoniously ejecting these people from the forums. If your aim is to be posting "woke" this or "SJW" that here (or worse) then you're gonna have a bad time. Let me state  in no uncertain terms that these people are not at all welcome on our forums. I'm sure you've seen some regulars around here that may have previously skirted the line issued bans over the last week or two. Those bans are permanent.

If reading this has you worried, well, you probably should be. This isn't a slippery slope to censorship or anything. We don't care if you hate or love X or Y game, developer, or what have you. This isn't even about your garden variety trolling, lapses of judgment we all have posting on forums from time to time, or even just skeptical or cynical views some people have on all sorts of topics. It's about the inability for some people to show basic human decency and empathy. We simply have no room for those people here. I don't think I can be any more clear on this.

As for the broader issue, feel free to create your own threads on the Blizzard topics, but editorial doesn't want those comments opened given the tenor of the forums and until that changes, certain articles will have their comments disabled at their discretion. We're absolutely open to revisiting this in the future if things change around here.

I've been here for 10+ years. You all know me and the space I've tried to give you over the years, but this is an issue that we have to get under control. The stuff we're seeing, particularly over the last few years, is disgusting both to me and to everyone who works here and we're just done with it.

Does this also pertain to the posters that insert their "lefty" ideology into conversations about gaming? I'm also sick and tired of the inability to get away from the virtue signaling that infests all forms of entertainment.

"Rules for thee, not for me?"

This site has definitive rules against political and religious discussions. That is a good rule, especially on a gaming site. I see more insertions of politics from the left who desire that "everyone" think as they do, or they're defective (not human).

If you feel the need to "kick me off" because I don't agree with lefty politics and need to silence any other viewpoints, go ahead. I can go elsewhere, though that is getting harder and harder to do, thanks to lefty's incessant need to "preach their religion" to all.

I will continue to point out the "other side" (rational) when the political subject gets inserted.

I think the optimal response would be to just report them and move on, no need to challenge the other side with an opposing viewpoint, especially if off topic or political in nature.

Do understand the other side sees their viewpoint as the more "rational" one.

Sometimes it helps to try and understand where they are coming from, who knows, you might even find yourself in agreement with them one day.

I use the "ignore" feature sparingly. I detest "censorship" of any kind. When specific posters can't post without their politics getting the way and no amount of "discussion" helps one iota, I use that feature.

I had to laugh at your last line since more "right wingers" understand "left wingers" more readily than the opposite. I'm tired of the constant HATE that the left gets way with then crying "HATE SPEECH!" Does Trump trigger anyone here?

I have been called every name in the left wing dictionary. So what? If their opinion mattered to me, it might hurt. Usually it is just as laughable as "MY Dad can beat up YOUR Dad!" And equally as useful.

I know there is plenty of blame to go around. Since I don't attacked by right wingers as often and witness the hypocrisy of left wingers throughout media and "culture", I'm tired of "sucking it up" and allowing to keep on thinking that "most of the world agrees", which keeps them feeling invincible.

The Left has created with divisive world we now live in. Their own intolerance of other viewpoints is sickening, in my opinion.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Sovrath

Wargfoot said:

Sovrath said:

Wargfoot said:

Sovrath said:

Wargfoot said:

Kyleran said:
I think the optimal response would be to just report them and move on, no need to challenge the other side with an opposing viewpoint, especially if off topic or political in nature.

Do understand the other side sees their viewpoint as the more "rational" one.

Sometimes it helps to try and understand where they are coming from, who knows, you might even find yourself in agreement with them one day.

I highly recommend the use of the 'ignore' feature.

Or one could just ignore it without the use of a feature but that seems too much for some. As if everything has to be a fight.

Our culture primes us to fight.
We're cheered on by the media.

It takes quite a bit of work to maintain one's peace.

Well, I think we make our culture, and given that we live in a world filled with billions of people with all sorts of different opinions, beliefs, it's just easier to live and let live.

Otherwise, everything is going to be a fight. Who wants to live that way? I certainly don't.

Gosh, I'm going to get banned for being philosophical here.

You personally may not want to fight but when I take a look at video games (virtual fighting), the media (real fighting), movies (fantasy fighting) and the internet as a whole (lots of fighting) it seems to be what people want to do.  Most of our media seems to be about conflict.

I was cruising through movie selections on Prime the other day and it was amazing how many were about an ex [soldier| cop| assassin] who had his [girlfriend | wife | daughter] messed with so the next 2 hrs. of blood-letting would be okay.

I'm really starting to wonder about entertainment as a whole.

It's funny you should say that as I was thinking the same thing a bit ago, though with a bit of an odd twist.

I was wondering (and clearly I have too much time on my hands) if an alien race (yup here it goes) were to actually know of our existence and if I ended up in their hands, how I would explain our entertainment as a good amount of it is about violence.

Also, would they misunderstand (I think too many people believe that "aliens" would be like us but different shape not realizing that they might have an entirely different way of looking at EVERYTHING) and think that I really wanted to be put into these situations, so they would try to create an environment that would make me happy with giant killer spiders, zombies out to kill me, and anything else that would bring me the violence that I "apparently crave."

Here is the thing, I don't really believe that most people want to be "violent" per se. They might like war movies, killing demons in Doom, and tackle football but when it comes to real violence, most people would not want to be a part of it.

I love combat in games but in no way, shape, or form would I want to actually go out there and hurt someone else for kicks.

So I'm not really sure what that's about.

Sovrath

AlBQuirky said:

I had to laugh at your last line since more "right wingers" understand "left wingers" more readily than the opposite. I'm tired of the constant HATE that the left gets way with then crying "HATE SPEECH!" Does Trump trigger anyone here?

You see, it's stuff like this that perpetuates all this hate.

I'm sure both sides say the same thing.

My roommate, a good friend of mine, has very different life/political views than I do. I'm liberal and he's libertarian.

And we don't get into shouting matches, we don't go pointing fingers. Truth be told we just let the other have their views and be done with it.

But as I said in another post somewhere, there are the "extreme people" who just can't keep it in their pants and have to go out of their way to get in the face of other people who have different viewpoints.

It's the people who think that all liberals, conservatives, religious people, pick your group, all think the exact same way, all expect other people to see their way as the best that are kind of the problem.

Heck, I'm not religious and consider myself agnostic and I know of religious people who are just so good, so amazing that I'd be happy with an entire world of them and just me.

each side or each group is going to have a large number of decent people and people who would be fine with just living and let living.

We have to stop thinking of groups as cartoons, two-dimensional representations of ideas, and realize that every side has their story and that story and their beliefs work for them because that's where life brought them.

I think if people would really go back to the human decency part of the equation, the idea that community can be strong when it's supportive of its members, then we'd have a better time of it.

But people have to stop being completely "me" centric and be willing to understand why others have different ways of thinking and living.

Mendel

Nanfoodle said:

mmorpg.com will only make money if they can bring in sponsored articles. Thats a fact. If its hurting their business, they should just ban people from sponsored articles if they get out of line but let them post on the open forums IMO. I will say this, I have given feedback in sponsored articles, like the website you can buy windows keys for cheap. They are a scam and not selling legit keys. So this site is also to blame.    

I certainly think that MMORPG.com has an obligation to vet the sponsored articles and advertisements they allow.  If there's an article and it doesn't allow discussion, then it is essentially a sermon.  It a company paid to have this article, it is a sponsored sermon.  MMORPG.com is free to pursue sponsored sermons if they choose; any corresponding drops in viewers is entirely on their own hands.

But given the number of game development efforts that are engaging in scam-like activities, enforcing a no-discussion policy may be the ultimate no-win situation.  (As if there is a 'win' in an MMORPG).

FrodoFragins

The main issue is that they don't seem to have the manpower to moderate at all.  So if they want to avoid having to make commentless articles they need to let some posters become mods.

All I'll say is that I don't come here for discussions on politics or religion.  And I check out the second someone brings up SJW's, wokeness or liberals.  Like it or not, it's the right wingers that have been derailing the threads with politics.  I get that they are angry, but take it to political forums.

Nanfoodle

Mendel said:

Nanfoodle said:

mmorpg.com will only make money if they can bring in sponsored articles. Thats a fact. If its hurting their business, they should just ban people from sponsored articles if they get out of line but let them post on the open forums IMO. I will say this, I have given feedback in sponsored articles, like the website you can buy windows keys for cheap. They are a scam and not selling legit keys. So this site is also to blame.    

I certainly think that MMORPG.com has an obligation to vet the sponsored articles and advertisements they allow.  If there's an article and it doesn't allow discussion, then it is essentially a sermon.  It a company paid to have this article, it is a sponsored sermon.  MMORPG.com is free to pursue sponsored sermons if they choose; any corresponding drops in viewers is entirely on their own hands.

But given the number of game development efforts that are engaging in scam-like activities, enforcing a no-discussion policy may be the ultimate no-win situation.  (As if there is a 'win' in an MMORPG).

It's a fine line between the posters on this site that speak trash for trash sakes and sponced articals that are questionable. They need to make smart policies and we need to decide if and how we support them. 

FrodoFragins

AlBQuirky said:

Iselin said:

AlBQuirky said:

Iselin said:

@Scot

You of all people, who spend a lot of your time telling posters to calm down and act like adults should know why articles about gaming companies that broach social subjects, employment conditions or politics have been locked for comment.

Why is it that MMORPG.com is an entity that can do as they please (censor speech, however bad and terrible it may be), but any other business can not (supposed working conditions, benefits, salary, mandatory health procedures)?

Why is stating one's "opinion" only "bad/wrong" when it disagrees with "yours?"

You're seriously trying to put this site locking comment on some topics on the same level as institutional abuse of employees by an employer?

If your accusations are true, why isn't Blizzard being sued out the wazoo?

Do I agree with their business practices? No. Do I think I think a bunch of clueless (about running a business) "activists" has any say about it? Nope. What laws been broken?

Talk about "entitlement." "I can run your business better than you can!"

Um the extent only just became public.  Expect civil lawsuits and maybe as a class action.  Individuals can get blacklisted from the industry, which is why no individuals took action.  It's hard enough to get a job in the industry.

Slapshot1188

FrodoFragins said:

Like it or not, it's the right wingers that have been derailing the threads with politics.  I get that they are angry, but take it to political forums.

Oh I can quite positively inform you that it is NOT a one way street.  At all.  How many times do you think folks have been called OK BOOMER on these forums?  How many times have they been called a "Karen"?  How many times have people spouted "old white Dudes" with impudence?  Or talk about "Orange Man Bad"?  I can spend 5 minutes and go dig up a few examples if you disagree, but I do not see the need.

Sure I also TOTALLY see people on the right do stupid shit as well, but what you stated is exactly part of the problem IMHO.  Folks just see one side when there is more than enough idiocy to go around.  It's why I sadly refuse to join a political party, ever.  It's poop on one side, crap on the other.  It's all about Team red vs Team blue.

If we want to hold our community members accountable, OK fair enough and a commendable goal, but let's do it all around and not selectively.  If the rules stand as stated :

• Hateful content includes, but is not limited to, discriminating comments about: race, ethnicity (what country someone is from), religion, age, gender, sexuality, socioeconomic status and political beliefs. MMORPG.com holds complete and total discretion to decide what is hateful.

Then lets stand together and not allow discriminating comments about ALL those things listed.  Let's not excuse it when a guy on "our side" wants to exhibit hateful ageism and call someone "OK BOOMER".  Let's not excuse it when a guy on "our side" says "Orange Man Bad" or "MAGA Racist" and "You white old people don't...".  Let's NOT excuse it when someone on "our side "uses a racial slur", demeans their sexuality and religion or talked about "Demoncrats"

One thing I learned well in decades of management is that if you publish rules, you must enforce them evenly.  If you pick and choose which to enforce it never, ever ends well. To be clear though, the site can make any rule they want.  They can edit that rule tomorrow and delete some of those categories.  That is within their power, but if it's not edited and the rules are published...  then IMHO we should not pick and chose which are enforced and which are ignored.

Honestly though... I do not come to this site to talk politics.  Some of the people I most look forward to reading posts from are my political opposites.   We share a love of gaming.  And that is what should bring us together here.  We actually have MULTIPLE NEW MMORPGs to rag on, why waste this rare opportunity to talk about politics which we get hit over the head with 365 days a year?

FrodoFragins

Slapshot1188 said:

FrodoFragins said:

Like it or not, it's the right wingers that have been derailing the threads with politics.  I get that they are angry, but take it to political forums.

Oh I can quite positively inform you that it is NOT a one way street.  At all.  How many times do you think folks have been called OK BOOMER on these forums?  How many times have they been called a "Karen"?  How many times have people spouted "old white Dudes" with impudence?  Or talk about "Orange Man Bad"?  I can spend 5 minutes and go dig up a few examples if you disagree, but I do not see the need.

Sure I also TOTALLY see people on the right do stupid shit as well, but what you stated is exactly part of the problem IMHO.  Folks just see one side when there is more than enough idiocy to go around.  It's why I sadly refuse to join a political party, ever.  It's poop on one side, crap on the other.  It's all about Team red vs Team blue.

If we want to hold our community members accountable, OK fair enough and a commendable goal, but let's do it all around and not selectively.  If the rules stand as stated :

• Hateful content includes, but is not limited to, discriminating comments about: race, ethnicity (what country someone is from), religion, age, gender, sexuality, socioeconomic status and political beliefs. MMORPG.com holds complete and total discretion to decide what is hateful.

Then lets stand together and not allow discriminating comments about ALL those things listed.  Let's not excuse it when a guy on "our side" wants to exhibit hateful ageism and call someone "OK BOOMER".  Let's not excuse it when a guy on "our side" says "Orange Man Bad" or "MAGA Racist" and "You white old people don't...".  Let's NOT excuse it when someone on "our side "uses a racial slur", demeans their sexuality and religion or talked about "Demoncrats"

One thing I learned well in decades of management is that if you publish rules, you must enforce them evenly.  If you pick and choose which to enforce it never, ever ends well. To be clear though, the site can make any rule they want.  They can edit that rule tomorrow and delete some of those categories.  That is within their power, but if it's not edited and the rules are published...  then IMHO we should not pick and chose which are enforced and which are ignored.

Honestly though... I do not come to this site to talk politics.  Some of the people I most look forward to reading posts from are my political opposites.   We share a love of gaming.  And that is what should bring us together here.  We actually have MULTIPLE NEW MMORPGs to rag on, why waste this rare opportunity to talk about politics which we get hit over the head with 365 days a year?

I haven't seen it in the Blizzard threads.  I've mostly seen people dismiss the accusations simply because they think the state is massively corrupt.  I also saw tons of "Wokeness" accusations and such.  I haven't seen those threads derailed with OK Boomer or left wing stuff.  I just didn't see that in those threads.  But I have seen ageism in others.

But certainly, make rules that are specific on trigger words for both sides that are used to insult people or simply derail threads.

[Deleted User]

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