Imagine this, "This was the Best MMO, but I would rather not play MMO's then play this" does that sound like the kind of review that would get you use that product or trust that reviewers opinion?
That would have me scratching my head, like WTF?
Why would that be an issue? How does no longer wanting to play MMOs contradict what a person felt was the best MMO when they played them?
Often "the best" comes at a high cost also......Steinway may make "the best" pianos, but they often run well over 100K dollars......Some steak houses may have the best steaks, but they may cost you $200+ for the family to eat there.....Some games may be considered "the best" but you are going to have to pay either a sub or buy DLC or some other expense.....We all have to make decisions as to whether we want "the best" or not.
Often "the best" comes at a high cost also......Steinway may make "the best" pianos, but they often run well over 100K dollars......Some steak houses may have the best steaks, but they may cost you $200+ for the family to eat there.....Some games may be considered "the best" but you are going to have to pay either a sub or buy DLC or some other expense.....We all have to make decisions as to whether we want "the best" or not.
Absolutely and great examples.
I guess, given the current discussion, one could say "there is the best and then there is the best a person is willing to buy/engage in/partake in."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Ungood said: ...That raises some questions about the validity of their claim, don't you think:.
The validity of their claim? It's an opinion. Full stop.
No Shit we are talking about an Opinion. Glad we both understand that. .
Then stop telling people they're wrong, dummy.
I am not telling anyone they are wrong.
I am wondering what the fuck is wrong with them, if they don't like what they think is the best.
There is a huge difference between those two points, some people however, cannot seem to grasp that, they apparently are the same people that do not like what they think is best.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ungood said: ...That raises some questions about the validity of their claim, don't you think:.
The validity of their claim? It's an opinion. Full stop.
No Shit we are talking about an Opinion. Glad we both understand that. .
Then stop telling people they're wrong, dummy.
I am not telling anyone they are wrong.
I am wondering what the fuck is wrong with them, if they don't like what they think is the best.
There is a huge difference between those two points, some people however, cannot seem to grasp that, they apparently are the same people that do not like what they think is best.
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't like what is best.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I see only one person with something wrong here :P
Are you expecting anyone to give any credit to your opinion, when you just made a fuss on this topic about how you can't give credit to an Opinion.
I love reading your retorts, and small note, Monitors tend to cast a refection.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Ungood said: ...That raises some questions about the validity of their claim, don't you think:.
The validity of their claim? It's an opinion. Full stop.
No Shit we are talking about an Opinion. Glad we both understand that. .
Then stop telling people they're wrong, dummy.
I am not telling anyone they are wrong.
I am wondering what the fuck is wrong with them, if they don't like what they think is the best.
There is a huge difference between those two points, some people however, cannot seem to grasp that, they apparently are the same people that do not like what they think is best.
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't like what is best.
Don't you refuse to play L2 because you don't like it?
Not sure how heeled in you would need to be, to not see the hypocrisy of someone saying "I love this game, best game ever! I don't play it because it has features that I just can't stand, and will not play it, and instead I will play something else which is more enjoyable"
You really.. think that kind of logic makes perfect sense?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ungood said: ...That raises some questions about the validity of their claim, don't you think:.
The validity of their claim? It's an opinion. Full stop.
No Shit we are talking about an Opinion. Glad we both understand that. .
Then stop telling people they're wrong, dummy.
I am not telling anyone they are wrong.
I am wondering what the fuck is wrong with them, if they don't like what they think is the best.
There is a huge difference between those two points, some people however, cannot seem to grasp that, they apparently are the same people that do not like what they think is best.
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't like what is best.
Don't you refuse to play L2 because you don't like it?
Not sure how heeled in you would need to be, to not see the hypocrisy of someone saying "I love this game, best game ever! I don't play it because it has features that I just can't stand, and will not play it, and instead I will play something else which is more enjoyable"
You really.. think that kind of logic makes perfect sense?
I stopped playing it because in order to be competitive I needed to put in too much time.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Individualized -- Everyone has their own definition of 'the best'.
Subjective -- 'The best' is merely an opinion, not factually based.
Categorized -- Properties allow for multiple instances of 'the best' for each individual, segregated by the property.
Superlative -- Within a category, 'the best' meets all criteria for an individual.
Temporal -- A person can have different ideas of 'the best' over time.
Unique -- 'The best' is always unique within a person/category.
People aren't rigorous enough, though. They will invent new categories to try to have multiple 'best' games. They will try to compare their 'best' to another person's 'best' and try to wrangle some superiority or moral stance out of it. They will argue over whose 'best' is 'best'. It's a personalized opinion, neither better or worse than another opinion.
That's the best I can do today.
Now, what's your idea of 'the best' fragrance/aroma/smell? Mine's bacon.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Well, the best in the context of the aforementioned thread started by me was supposed to be completely subjective, and very intentionally so, because whats best to some isnt the best to others.
As a simple example, I am no fan of WoW.
- Character looks are very important for me, and WoW has a really ugly western style comic look, for example with absurdly oversized shoulder armor, also with a grossly over the top amount of colorfulness. Absolutely intolerable to me and the immediate reason I never considered it, ever. I want either a very realistic look (preferred, Vanguard - well you had to be sort of picky, Vanguard definitely had some oversized shoulder armor as well, but you could still get there pretty easily) or at least a very stylized, aesthetic look (Lineage 2).
- Another thing I dont like about WoW is how relatively few abilities one gets. I have played games like that, like Guild Wars, and I find them relatively boring compared to what I got in Vanguard, where I always felt I could learn to play my character even better, even after years of trying to optimize my gameplay.
- I also dont like the idea that people keep completely reskilling their characters and suddenly are something completely different. Sure, I like playing something different - but for that I start a new character.
- I am also not at all in favor of the fact you cannot move while spellcasting in WoW. In Vanguard, you would move at half speed - if you could levitate, even at full speed. Much more interesting and to my mind also much more realistic.
But other people say WoW is the best. Thats okay, I was just trying to find out what people think. Thats also why I ask for the reasons why, so I can have an idea how they ended up with this conclusion.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Alright, well.. legit, if you want something else instead, that removes, whatever it is, from being The Best, because, it no longer had the most desirable qualities to you.
No, I don't agree.
I already addressed this.
Just because something is "the best" doesn't mean it still fits into your life.
Original Lineage 2 was the best mmorpg I've ever played. But at higher levels it required too much time so I stopped playing it.
To me, Souls games are the best games I've played but because of their game play I prefer to dedicate more time than I have to play games. Therefore I play them sparingly.
There are certain parameters that one has for something. the things that contain those parameters, maybe even shine by exhibiting those parameters, can be seen as the best.
Whether a person can or should still take part is another thing entirely.
Life really isn't black and white.
Those are called "Deal breaker" conditions, and they often remove things from being the Best.
No they don't.
But that depends on what parameters one is using. Lord of the Rings online, one of the few games I've spent years in, doesn't suddenly become the best because Lineage 2 required more time.
It was just the more playable.
I prefer Show Stopper to deal breaker, it is more dramatic and as you know if the the age of social media has ushered in anything it is drama.
Ungood said: ...That raises some questions about the validity of their claim, don't you think:.
The validity of their claim? It's an opinion. Full stop.
No Shit we are talking about an Opinion. Glad we both understand that. .
Then stop telling people they're wrong, dummy.
I am not telling anyone they are wrong.
I am wondering what the fuck is wrong with them, if they don't like what they think is the best.
There is a huge difference between those two points, some people however, cannot seem to grasp that, they apparently are the same people that do not like what they think is best.
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't like what is best.
Don't you refuse to play L2 because you don't like it?
Not sure how heeled in you would need to be, to not see the hypocrisy of someone saying "I love this game, best game ever! I don't play it because it has features that I just can't stand, and will not play it, and instead I will play something else which is more enjoyable"
You really.. think that kind of logic makes perfect sense?
Some have the ability to recognize when their personal bias is what causes them to prefer a game over one they would otherwise feel incontestably better. Those so gifted can often separate their bias when discussing games with others, and thus praise a game they don't play themselves but think worthy regardless.
Ungood said: ...That raises some questions about the validity of their claim, don't you think:.
The validity of their claim? It's an opinion. Full stop.
No Shit we are talking about an Opinion. Glad we both understand that. .
Then stop telling people they're wrong, dummy.
I am not telling anyone they are wrong.
I am wondering what the fuck is wrong with them, if they don't like what they think is the best.
There is a huge difference between those two points, some people however, cannot seem to grasp that, they apparently are the same people that do not like what they think is best.
I don't think anyone is saying that they don't like what is best.
Don't you refuse to play L2 because you don't like it?
Not sure how heeled in you would need to be, to not see the hypocrisy of someone saying "I love this game, best game ever! I don't play it because it has features that I just can't stand, and will not play it, and instead I will play something else which is more enjoyable"
You really.. think that kind of logic makes perfect sense?
Some have the ability to recognize when their personal bias is what causes them to prefer a game over one they would otherwise feel incontestably better. Those so gifted can often separate their bias when discussing games with others, and thus praise a game they don't play themselves but think worthy regardless.
To me that seems both logical and sensible.
We are never free of bias, but introspection does help keep it in check. Was I biased about this thread? Yes, because I have seen people try to establish the truth through the definition of words many times before, indeed we have tried it on here quite a few times.
I see no ultimate truths in words and that makes you realise our understanding of our world can only ever be a 'best fit' (opps!). We make do as best (sorry ) we can with a flawed system of communication. Thinking back over humanities achievements we have not done too bad so far.
I have 2 pages to go, so apologies if this angle has been discussed.
"Best" needs qualifiers. I got to Ungood's reply to ChildoftheShadows' thoughts and realized "best needs qualifiers."
When someone asks, "Is this the best?", many times they are asking in terms of themself, not the one being queried. They are asking for advice. Thus, an answer may NOT be "the best" for the one being asked, but rather what is perceived to be "best" for the one asking the question. Did that make sense? lol
That significant other in the example, MAY be the best for the one who likes/enjoys drama, shit on the bed, and fools around, too. It's NOT "the best" seeking a stable relationship, but the "friend" asks, because... they're hot!
Most of the time, answers are given with qualifiers, like:
- "Best Combat"
- "Best Quests"
- "Best Crafting"
- "Best Exploration"
... and so on. An answer should take in all parties involved. What may be "best" for one may be "just passable, yet fun" for another.
Then you have answers like, "The best I've played yet." for any of the above qualifiers. This goes to any aspect of life. One needs to know who is asking in order to give an opinion. I refrain from opinions on PvP because my criteria (fun and laughter) is far different from others who like the "challenge." (resource, tower/territory possession, etc)
Nothing is perfect, so we are stuck with "the best so far."
I hope this made some sense. Sometimes my thoughts take a detour between my brain and my fingers
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
-Keith Whitley-
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Why would that be an issue? How does no longer wanting to play MMOs contradict what a person felt was the best MMO when they played them?
I guess, given the current discussion, one could say "there is the best and then there is the best a person is willing to buy/engage in/partake in."
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"To me, the best is this."
"No, that's wrong."
I am wondering what the fuck is wrong with them, if they don't like what they think is the best.
There is a huge difference between those two points, some people however, cannot seem to grasp that, they apparently are the same people that do not like what they think is best.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I love reading your retorts, and small note, Monitors tend to cast a refection.
Not sure how heeled in you would need to be, to not see the hypocrisy of someone saying "I love this game, best game ever! I don't play it because it has features that I just can't stand, and will not play it, and instead I will play something else which is more enjoyable"
You really.. think that kind of logic makes perfect sense?
So now I play games like Lost Ark because it's the "best" I've found to allow me to split my attention between gaming and watching my favorite shows.
LA certainly isn't my nominee for Best MMORPG, well unless one wants a title which doesn't require much in the way of needing the player's attention.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
https://biturl.top/rU7bY3
Beyond the shadows there's always light
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Some have the ability to recognize when their personal bias is what causes them to prefer a game over one they would otherwise feel incontestably better. Those so gifted can often separate their bias when discussing games with others, and thus praise a game they don't play themselves but think worthy regardless.
To me that seems both logical and sensible.
I see no ultimate truths in words and that makes you realise our understanding of our world can only ever be a 'best fit' (opps!). We make do as best (sorry
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR