I have 2 pages to go, so apologies if this angle has been discussed.
"Best" needs qualifiers. I got to Ungood's reply to ChildoftheShadows' thoughts and realized "best needs qualifiers."
When someone asks, "Is this the best?", many times they are asking in terms of themself, not the one being queried. They are asking for advice. Thus, an answer may NOT be "the best" for the one being asked, but rather what is perceived to be "best" for the one asking the question. Did that make sense? lol
Here's the reason this thread isnt going like the OP expected imo: if the OP wanted a specific kind of best discussed, the title communicated exactly the opposite.
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the OP didn't intentionally do that, but the title of the thread very directly communicated he was looking for the responders to define it from their perspectives.
If you ask someone to define something based on opinion, then proceed to tell them their opinion response is wrong, you generally look like you weren't interested in their opinion so much as criticizing them.
I have 2 pages to go, so apologies if this angle has been discussed.
"Best" needs qualifiers. I got to Ungood's reply to ChildoftheShadows' thoughts and realized "best needs qualifiers."
When someone asks, "Is this the best?", many times they are asking in terms of themself, not the one being queried. They are asking for advice. Thus, an answer may NOT be "the best" for the one being asked, but rather what is perceived to be "best" for the one asking the question. Did that make sense? lol
Here's the reason this thread isnt going like the OP expected imo: if the OP wanted a specific kind of best discussed, the title communicated exactly the opposite.
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the OP didn't intentionally do that, but the title of the thread very directly communicated he was looking for the responders to define it from their perspectives.
If you ask someone to define something based on opinion, then proceed to tell them their opinion response is wrong, you generally look like you weren't interested in their opinion so much as criticizing them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have 2 pages to go, so apologies if this angle has been discussed.
"Best" needs qualifiers. I got to Ungood's reply to ChildoftheShadows' thoughts and realized "best needs qualifiers."
When someone asks, "Is this the best?", many times they are asking in terms of themself, not the one being queried. They are asking for advice. Thus, an answer may NOT be "the best" for the one being asked, but rather what is perceived to be "best" for the one asking the question. Did that make sense? lol
Here's the reason this thread isnt going like the OP expected imo: if the OP wanted a specific kind of best discussed, the title communicated exactly the opposite.
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the OP didn't intentionally do that, but the title of the thread very directly communicated he was looking for the responders to define it from their perspectives.
If you ask someone to define something based on opinion, then proceed to tell them their opinion response is wrong, you generally look like you weren't interested in their opinion so much as criticizing them.
This is not correct at all.
I do tire of needing to explain what should be a simple concept many times over.
If you claim something is "The Best" regardless of what Metrics you use, or what you direct this claim at, you are still placing whatever it is, as "The Best" this means, when it comes to subjective opnion, it should be the most personally desirable option to you, and if given the chance you would use it.
As such, no one is saying you are wrong for thinking something is the best...
The question is: What is wrong with you for not using what you say is best.
As I see it, it makes absolutely no sense to willingly use an inferior product, if they had access to what they believed to be the superior one.
Why would anyone willingly use what they personally believe is the inferior choice, if they have access to what they believe to be the superior or best choice?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I have a board and I want it to be shorter. What is the "best" tool to do that a hammer, screwdriver, or a saw?
Now, aside from the board, what is the "best" tool?
It's nonsense. The saw was the best tool for that one job, other tools are the best for other jobs. Today, the saw was the best, tomorrow, it's the hammer, But they are both still the best. For what they do.
The fact that I don't use the saw for all jobs doesn't mean it isn't the best at what it does.
Some have the ability to recognize when their personal bias is what causes them to prefer a game over one they would otherwise feel incontestably better. Those so gifted can often separate their bias when discussing games with others, and thus praise a game they don't play themselves but think worthy regardless.
To me that seems both logical and sensible.
This is a good answer, but what this is doing is comparing what would be Subjective Best to Objective Best.
To use real games in this example.
DDO, is in many ways an Inferior MMO, it's laggy, buggy, and unoptimized, it has old graphics that are really showing their age badly, sloppy and in some cases just flat out missing animations. It has a lot of mechanical issues, and some gameplay issues as well, so from a Objective Mechanical View, this is not anywhere near what would be a Top AAA Game.
Now, for me, I still think it's the best Dungeon Running game on the market, as well as the best adaptation of a D&D MMO, for all it's flaws, which I am well aware of, nothing else even comes close, and that is my Subjective Opinion.
But because it is my Opinion that DDO is the Best Dungeon Running MMO on the Market, I still play the game.
Which is why, I could see someone not using what would be the Objective Superior Product, simply because they don't Subjectively like it. Like a Superior Quality Tool might not sit well in their hand, even if it overall a better made tool in every m3chanical aspect, it's just not comfortable to them, so they use something else that is more comfortable.
In this venture, Objective Opinion often outweighs Objective Metrics when it comes to what we fill our life with.
Which brings us back to.. If you think something is the best.. why are you not using it?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I have a board and I want it to be shorter. What is the "best" tool to do that a hammer, screwdriver, or a saw?
Now, aside from the board, what is the "best" tool?
It's nonsense. The saw was the best tool for that one job, other tools are the best for other jobs. Today, the saw was the best, tomorrow, it's the hammer, But they are both still the best. For what they do.
The fact that I don't use the saw for all jobs doesn't mean it isn't the best at what it does.
I love this!
Really, because this whole topic can be summed up like this
I am seeing people who know the Saw is the Best tool to cut the board, they say the Saw is the Best tool cut the board, and yet I see them out there using a fucking screwdriver to shorten the board saying "You don't understand me!"
Edit Added: Which, To be honest, they are not wrong that I don't understand them.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Which brings us back to.. If you think something is the best.. why are you not using it?
To use the word stated previously in this thread "because there are 'showstoppers.'"
To me the showstoppers don't demote it from being the best. whatever it is, is still "the best" based on various criteria but the one or two things that keep me from playing it, eating there, being a part of a relationship, "whatever thing is being evaluated," still doesn't demote it and it's still "the best."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Which brings us back to.. If you think something is the best.. why are you not using it?
To use the word stated previously in this thread "because there are 'showstoppers.'"
To me the showstoppers don't demote it from being the best. whatever it is, is still "the best" based on various criteria but the one or two things that keep me from playing it, eating there, being a part of a relationship, "whatever thing is being evaluated," still doesn't demote it and it's still "the best."
So ...
This is like.
You know the Saw is the Best Tool to Cut the Board, Objectively and Subjectively the Saw is the Best tool for that Job.
But You're gonna use a Screwdriver to do the Job because the Saw (which is in perfect working order and ready to be safely used) has some Show Stopper qualities that remove it from consideration.
That way of thinking is so far removed from my way of life, it's simply foreign to me.
Now, no dis to you, I am sure in your circle and way of living, perhaps your job makes it so this somehow works and it all makes sense, but, I'd be lying if I said that as a foreman, I didn't fire people for doing that exact kind of thing.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Do I want pancakes every day? Sure, until I realize that "too much of a GOOD thing" makes me sick.
A month ago, pancakes were "the best." Now, a month later, "pancakes me sick."
Now, if your question was, "What is the MMO NOW? (qualifier)", then you'd get better answers
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Which brings us back to.. If you think something is the best.. why are you not using it?
To use the word stated previously in this thread "because there are 'showstoppers.'"
To me the showstoppers don't demote it from being the best. whatever it is, is still "the best" based on various criteria but the one or two things that keep me from playing it, eating there, being a part of a relationship, "whatever thing is being evaluated," still doesn't demote it and it's still "the best."
I can't really fathom why people go back and play games they are "done with."
I rarely do, as there's never enough time to play all of the games in my backlog.
But everyone is different of course, yet I still consider some games I played previously as the best, for me anyways.
I played through Fallout 4 five times, great game, but I'm done now....next.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You know the Saw is the Best Tool to Cut the Board, Objectively and Subjectively the Saw is the Best tool for that Job.
But You're gonna use a Screwdriver to do the Job because the Saw (which is in perfect working order and ready to be safely used) has some Show Stopper qualities that remove it from consideration.
That way of thinking is so far removed from my way of life, it's simply foreign to me.
Now, no dis to you, I am sure in your circle and way of living, perhaps your job makes it so this somehow works and it all makes sense, but, I'd be lying if I said that as a foreman, I didn't fire people for doing that exact kind of thing.
No.
You're now just making stuff up. I've said this before Ungood but you come across as a very "black and white person" very linear.
You clearly don't or can't or down't want to, understand what people are saying
Let me fix your analogy..
"A particular saw" is the best way to cut wood. This one saw just does it the best. However, due to how the handle is shaped it hurts the wrist, therefore another saw is used. It doesn't quite have the best teeth count but it can do the job and it doesn't hurt the wrist.
You'd prefer the 1st saw but the 2nd saw will work.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You know the Saw is the Best Tool to Cut the Board, Objectively and Subjectively the Saw is the Best tool for that Job.
But You're gonna use a Screwdriver to do the Job because the Saw (which is in perfect working order and ready to be safely used) has some Show Stopper qualities that remove it from consideration.
That way of thinking is so far removed from my way of life, it's simply foreign to me.
Now, no dis to you, I am sure in your circle and way of living, perhaps your job makes it so this somehow works and it all makes sense, but, I'd be lying if I said that as a foreman, I didn't fire people for doing that exact kind of thing.
No.
You're now just making stuff up. I've said this before Ungood but you come across as a very "black and white person" very linear.
You clearly don't or can't or down't want to, understand what people are saying
Let me fix your analogy..
"A particular saw" is the best way to cut wood. This one saw just does it the best. However, due to how the handle is shaped it hurts the wrist, therefore another saw is used. It doesn't quite have the best teeth count but it can do the job and it doesn't hurt the wrist.
You'd prefer the 1st saw but the 2nd saw will work.
A better tool analogy, some people swear by Craftsman hand tools, others prefer Snap-On or some other brands.
Now while I believe Craftsman screwdrivers are the best, I might be currently using another brand, or even one I "borrowed" from a neighbor and failed to return.
If asked I would still tell you the best is Craftsman, but certainly I can make another brand work for the job at hand, even a cheaply made knock-off tool. (Stay with me here)
Same with games, I might believe a particular one I played in the past was the best, but the game I am currently playing is more fit for purpose, keeping me entertained for a few hours tonight, even a cheaply made knock-off like Lost Ark, which certainly isn't the best IMO.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"A particular saw" is the best way to cut wood. This one saw just s it the best. However, due to how the handle is shaped it hurts the wrist, therefore another saw is used. It doesn't quite have the best teeth count but it can do the job and it doesn't hurt the wrist.
You'd prefer the 1st saw but the 2nd saw will work.
Lets go with that.
Alright, That is what Subjective Best means... In your Opinion, that is the best saw for you. In this case, Saw 2, would be the Subjective Best saw, because if given the choice to use Saw 1 or Saw 2, you will chose Saw 2.
Regardless if Saw 1 was a superiorly made saw, Saw 2 is still the best saw for you, because it does not make your wrist hurt.
Now, see, this is what is called an Opinion. This is what all the people who are saying "Well the best to me" are talking about.
Alright, so, again, regardless of how epic shit Saw 1 might be, made of pure awesome and engineers by king shit themselves, Saw 2 is still The Best saw for you.
So, lets go with this analogy of yours, and work with it.
if we are on the job site, and I ask you, "What Saw do you think is best" and tell me, to my face "Saw 1 is the best saw" I am going to give you saw 1, because giving my best employees like yourself, the best tools to get the job done, often gets the work done faster, easier, and better then using inferior tools.
No doubt someone here will disagree with that mindset, and I am fine with giving those kinds of people the shit tools to work with, if that will make them happy, you go get 'em tiger.
Now, after I give you Saw 1, because you directly told me that you think Saw 1 is the BEST Saw, and then come back to me and explain that you can't use Saw 1, because it hurts your wrist, and you knew this already, the WTF look on my face would stay there for the entire time I asked and expected an answer to "why the hell on this earth did you tell me it was the better saw, when it clearly is far worse for you then Saw 2."
This would be one of those events where, now doubt of I was chewing the fat with those along the chain, they would all also being WTF, and then be like "And that's your best Employee?"
And I would be like "Yah, they are my best employee" allowing the others to ponder what I have to deal with, if that is my best.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Which brings us back to.. If you think something is the best.. why are you not using it?
To use the word stated previously in this thread "because there are 'showstoppers.'"
To me the showstoppers don't demote it from being the best. whatever it is, is still "the best" based on various criteria but the one or two things that keep me from playing it, eating there, being a part of a relationship, "whatever thing is being evaluated," still doesn't demote it and it's still "the best."
I can't really fathom why people go back and play games they are "done with."
I rarely do, as there's never enough time to play all of the games in my backlog.
But everyone is different of course, yet I still consider some games I played previously as the best, for me anyways.
I played through Fallout 4 five times, great game, but I'm done now....next.
I guess this highly depends on what someone means by "Done With"
Typically, "Done With" often means either they Completed it, or are Fed Up, Disenchanted, Tired of, Etc with it.
Since some games, allow for variable endings or have lots of Easter eggs and side quests, so a player might have completed the game, but still go back and play it, to uncover all Easter eggs, get all the achievements, or see all the ending cinemographs.
I guess someone could split hairs, that if they are still working on all the Achievements, they are not technically "Done with" the game, but that would depend on if someone views Done with to be reached the End, killed the Boss, or done with to mean, done everything they plan to ever do in the game.
Some people might think they are Done with a game, and then realize they in fact missed something and go back to get that last achievement, unlock, or just whatever.
Sometimes DLC's come out, or upgrades, and additional features get added, and thus players will return because now that the game changed, they are no longer "Done with" it.
Other times, when they use "done with" to mean frustrated, or tired of, or Disenchanted, often times, simply taking a break, playing something else, or doing something else with their time, renews their interest in the game. Often this gets called "Done with for now"
Much like, I love Waffles, I think they are the Best Breakfast food out there, and have a few kinds of wafflers, and will admit, like 5 min crafts, I did try to waffle damn near anything I could cook on a stove, Waffled Scrambled Eggs are quite good FYI.
But, sometimes you burn out on waffles, or just want to mix things up a but, so you make some pancakes, or French toast, I mean just because I might think Waffles are the best, does not mean I think everything else sucks big fat hairy balls, it just means, Waffles are more what I like, but even then, too much of a good thing makes you want to try other things. Does not mean I have sworn off Waffles, or will not eat them, just means, I am tired of them for the time being, and looking to expand my palate of breakfast foods.
Then of course you have the Done with, that can be summed up as "Fuck this Fucking Game! I am never playing this Piece of Shit again"
Why people go back to those games, I wager, one of the reasons might be, because regardless of their rage quit, flipping the bird as they walk out the door, they realize that game is better than what else is currently out there, or perhaps they just don't want to fully give up all that time investment.
There are, no doubt, many other reasons why some people return to games they rage quit.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
You know the Saw is the Best Tool to Cut the Board, Objectively and Subjectively the Saw is the Best tool for that Job.
But You're gonna use a Screwdriver to do the Job because the Saw (which is in perfect working order and ready to be safely used) has some Show Stopper qualities that remove it from consideration.
That way of thinking is so far removed from my way of life, it's simply foreign to me.
Now, no dis to you, I am sure in your circle and way of living, perhaps your job makes it so this somehow works and it all makes sense, but, I'd be lying if I said that as a foreman, I didn't fire people for doing that exact kind of thing.
No.
You're now just making stuff up. I've said this before Ungood but you come across as a very "black and white person" very linear.
You clearly don't or can't or down't want to, understand what people are saying
Let me fix your analogy..
"A particular saw" is the best way to cut wood. This one saw just does it the best. However, due to how the handle is shaped it hurts the wrist, therefore another saw is used. It doesn't quite have the best teeth count but it can do the job and it doesn't hurt the wrist.
You'd prefer the 1st saw but the 2nd saw will work.
A better tool analogy, some people swear by Craftsman hand tools, others prefer Snap-On or some other brands.
Now while I believe Craftsman screwdrivers are the best, I might be currently using another brand, or even one I "borrowed" from a neighbor and failed to return.
If asked I would still tell you the best is Craftsman, but certainly I can make another brand work for the job at hand, even a cheaply made knock-off tool. (Stay with me here)
Same with games, I might believe a particular one I played in the past was the best, but the game I am currently playing is more fit for purpose, keeping me entertained for a few hours tonight, even a cheaply made knock-off like Lost Ark, which certainly isn't the best IMO.
Can't break it down any better than this.
I was moving my gaming computer last month, and somehow, the motherboard has fried out, and it now no longer works, I am currently pricing if I should just rebuild, and match the older board, or try to upgrade the whole thing, it's a 6 year old rig, and, while still very good for it's age, there have been some notable tech improvements since I made it.
However, the latter choice would no doubt leave me without a gaming rig for the next few paychecks, as I put aside the funds to invest a few grand into a new system, there is also trying to explain this expense to my wife, where try to explain that I would rather spend 4 grand for a new system then 250 for a mother board.
Of course during this time, none of my other computers, like my laptop, can handle MMO's, so for right now, I am not playing anything.
This does not change my feelings on what MMO's I think are better or best, it just means that due to situations, I am dealing with the limitations I have open to me, so I am playing a lot of low demand games, mostly single player things like Darkest Dungeon, and Fallout Shelter, to scratch that gaming itch.
So, much like your example of a screw driver, in this situation, I am using what I have on hand. It's not what I think is best, but what I have available to me.
But I am not talking about situations where one must make due, or has some kind of situation where they have to content themselves with what they have.
But see, when it comes to MMO's, and players having access to them. So if the MMO is still readily accessible to the player, and they chose not to play it, that sends a very mixed message.
That would be like someone telling me, they think Craftsman is the best Screwdrivers, and then go to the Hardware store, and come back with a set of Kobolt.
Now, Kobolt tools are fine tools, and I personally have nothing against their choice to buy Kobolt, but I would be wondering why they bought Kobolt over Craftsman.
Now, sometimes the answer could be "It was on sale, and while not my fav, it's the same quality" which, when it comes to tools, anyone that works with them would totally respect that answer, and this is a prime example of someone trying a new game, playing something else for a change, etc. and Lets be honest, taking a break from a game is pretty common.
There is also a huge difference between no longer playing a game, and taking a break, either of your own volition, or like me, taking a break due to hardware failure.
But if they start to replace all their Craftsman tools with Kobolt, and yet still tell you "Craftsman is the Best" ... at some point, you start to look at them like 2+2 is not equaling 4 in their mind, if you get my drift.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Alright, well.. legit, if you want something else instead, that removes, whatever it is, from being The Best, because, it no longer had the most desirable qualities to you.
No, I don't agree.
I already addressed this.
Just because something is "the best" doesn't mean it still fits into your life.
Original Lineage 2 was the best mmorpg I've ever played. But at higher levels it required too much time so I stopped playing it.
To me, Souls games are the best games I've played but because of their game play I prefer to dedicate more time than I have to play games. Therefore I play them sparingly.
There are certain parameters that one has for something. the things that contain those parameters, maybe even shine by exhibiting those parameters, can be seen as the best.
Whether a person can or should still take part is another thing entirely.
Life really isn't black and white.
Lets widen this, what is more important, conviction or nuance? Is it better to be sure of what you are doing and get it done or be aware of every minutiae and procrastinate over whether to take action?
There are arguments on both sides here, we put knowledge and understanding on a pedestal as if it will always lead us to the correct decision. Look at human history, look at your own life, it often does not help or help enough. We can come to rely too much on data and come to believe that it is informing us when it may be deceiving us.
I am a nuance man myself, but it can be a handicap not a way to find the truth or choose the correct course of action.
I guess this highly depends on what someone means by "Done With"
Typically, "Done With" often means either they Completed it, or are Fed Up, Disenchanted, Tired of, Etc with it.[...]
Why, other ideas on games that one is never really done with:
- Games that allow to play the game in very different ways (for example the original Vampire Bloodlines offers seven different vampire clans, and especially Nosferatu and Malkavian play very differently than the rest).
- Games that put choices into how the game itself is played (as a very simple example, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic can be played as Jedi, Sith, or neutral Forceuser).
- Games that dont actually end (for example Stellaris or any of the The Elder Scrolls games like Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim).
- Games that keep getting updated (any still running MMORPG, games that highly support modding, like RimWorld, in ages past Guild Wars).
Some have the ability to recognize when their personal bias is what causes them to prefer a game over one they would otherwise feel incontestably better. Those so gifted can often separate their bias when discussing games with others, and thus praise a game they don't play themselves but think worthy regardless.
To me that seems both logical and sensible.
This is a good answer, but what this is doing is comparing what would be Subjective Best to Objective Best.
To use real games in this example.
DDO, is in many ways an Inferior MMO, it's laggy, buggy, and unoptimized, it has old graphics that are really showing their age badly, sloppy and in some cases just flat out missing animations. It has a lot of mechanical issues, and some gameplay issues as well, so from a Objective Mechanical View, this is not anywhere near what would be a Top AAA Game.
Now, for me, I still think it's the best Dungeon Running game on the market, as well as the best adaptation of a D&D MMO, for all it's flaws, which I am well aware of, nothing else even comes close, and that is my Subjective Opinion.
But because it is my Opinion that DDO is the Best Dungeon Running MMO on the Market, I still play the game.
Which is why, I could see someone not using what would be the Objective Superior Product, simply because they don't Subjectively like it. Like a Superior Quality Tool might not sit well in their hand, even if it overall a better made tool in every m3chanical aspect, it's just not comfortable to them, so they use something else that is more comfortable.
In this venture, Objective Opinion often outweighs Objective Metrics when it comes to what we fill our life with.
Which brings us back to.. If you think something is the best.. why are you not using it?
There is no objective best in MMORPGs as they are broad and heavily nuanced in nature, with the value placed on each of the many elements that combine to make them highly variable between persons due to differences in individual preference and bias.
Very specific elements can be determined objectively, such as poor performance due to a lack of optimization, but the impact that has on how one feels about the game will be subjective. One person could consider it a major fault and it will heavily negatively impact their impression of the game while another could consider it trivial in comparison to the positives they seen in other aspects of it.
The best is not necessarily best suited to one's needs.
For example, I played games with another for many years. She was in a horrific car accident where another vehicle plowed into hers. This caused a severe head injury and she became much more sensitive to some game graphics. As a result the games we had been playing was no longer tolerable for her, as was the case with many with many we tried as a replacement. With ESO we found one she could handle, at least better than those tried to date, and she greatly enjoyed it and I liked it as well.
While I consider City of Heroes the best MMORPG I've ever played, at least so far, it does not currently best meet my needs as my companion can no longer play it.
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Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that the OP didn't intentionally do that, but the title of the thread very directly communicated he was looking for the responders to define it from their perspectives.
If you ask someone to define something based on opinion, then proceed to tell them their opinion response is wrong, you generally look like you weren't interested in their opinion so much as criticizing them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I do tire of needing to explain what should be a simple concept many times over.
If you claim something is "The Best" regardless of what Metrics you use, or what you direct this claim at, you are still placing whatever it is, as "The Best" this means, when it comes to subjective opnion, it should be the most personally desirable option to you, and if given the chance you would use it.
As such, no one is saying you are wrong for thinking something is the best...
The question is: What is wrong with you for not using what you say is best.
As I see it, it makes absolutely no sense to willingly use an inferior product, if they had access to what they believed to be the superior one.
Why would anyone willingly use what they personally believe is the inferior choice, if they have access to what they believe to be the superior or best choice?
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
This is a good answer, but what this is doing is comparing what would be Subjective Best to Objective Best.
To use real games in this example.
DDO, is in many ways an Inferior MMO, it's laggy, buggy, and unoptimized, it has old graphics that are really showing their age badly, sloppy and in some cases just flat out missing animations. It has a lot of mechanical issues, and some gameplay issues as well, so from a Objective Mechanical View, this is not anywhere near what would be a Top AAA Game.
Now, for me, I still think it's the best Dungeon Running game on the market, as well as the best adaptation of a D&D MMO, for all it's flaws, which I am well aware of, nothing else even comes close, and that is my Subjective Opinion.
But because it is my Opinion that DDO is the Best Dungeon Running MMO on the Market, I still play the game.
Which is why, I could see someone not using what would be the Objective Superior Product, simply because they don't Subjectively like it. Like a Superior Quality Tool might not sit well in their hand, even if it overall a better made tool in every m3chanical aspect, it's just not comfortable to them, so they use something else that is more comfortable.
In this venture, Objective Opinion often outweighs Objective Metrics when it comes to what we fill our life with.
Which brings us back to.. If you think something is the best.. why are you not using it?
Really, because this whole topic can be summed up like this
I am seeing people who know the Saw is the Best tool to cut the board, they say the Saw is the Best tool cut the board, and yet I see them out there using a fucking screwdriver to shorten the board saying "You don't understand me!"
Edit Added: Which, To be honest, they are not wrong that I don't understand them.
To me the showstoppers don't demote it from being the best. whatever it is, is still "the best" based on various criteria but the one or two things that keep me from playing it, eating there, being a part of a relationship, "whatever thing is being evaluated," still doesn't demote it and it's still "the best."
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This is like.
You know the Saw is the Best Tool to Cut the Board, Objectively and Subjectively the Saw is the Best tool for that Job.
But You're gonna use a Screwdriver to do the Job because the Saw (which is in perfect working order and ready to be safely used) has some Show Stopper qualities that remove it from consideration.
That way of thinking is so far removed from my way of life, it's simply foreign to me.
Now, no dis to you, I am sure in your circle and way of living, perhaps your job makes it so this somehow works and it all makes sense, but, I'd be lying if I said that as a foreman, I didn't fire people for doing that exact kind of thing.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I rarely do, as there's never enough time to play all of the games in my backlog.
But everyone is different of course, yet I still consider some games I played previously as the best, for me anyways.
I played through Fallout 4 five times, great game, but I'm done now....next.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You're now just making stuff up. I've said this before Ungood but you come across as a very "black and white person" very linear.
You clearly don't or can't or down't want to, understand what people are saying
Let me fix your analogy..
"A particular saw" is the best way to cut wood. This one saw just does it the best. However, due to how the handle is shaped it hurts the wrist, therefore another saw is used. It doesn't quite have the best teeth count but it can do the job and it doesn't hurt the wrist.
You'd prefer the 1st saw but the 2nd saw will work.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Now while I believe Craftsman screwdrivers are the best, I might be currently using another brand, or even one I "borrowed" from a neighbor and failed to return.
If asked I would still tell you the best is Craftsman, but certainly I can make another brand work for the job at hand, even a cheaply made knock-off tool. (Stay with me here)
Same with games, I might believe a particular one I played in the past was the best, but the game I am currently playing is more fit for purpose, keeping me entertained for a few hours tonight, even a cheaply made knock-off like Lost Ark, which certainly isn't the best IMO.
Can't break it down any better than this.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Alright, That is what Subjective Best means... In your Opinion, that is the best saw for you. In this case, Saw 2, would be the Subjective Best saw, because if given the choice to use Saw 1 or Saw 2, you will chose Saw 2.
Regardless if Saw 1 was a superiorly made saw, Saw 2 is still the best saw for you, because it does not make your wrist hurt.
Now, see, this is what is called an Opinion. This is what all the people who are saying "Well the best to me" are talking about.
Alright, so, again, regardless of how epic shit Saw 1 might be, made of pure awesome and engineers by king shit themselves, Saw 2 is still The Best saw for you.
So, lets go with this analogy of yours, and work with it.
if we are on the job site, and I ask you, "What Saw do you think is best" and tell me, to my face "Saw 1 is the best saw" I am going to give you saw 1, because giving my best employees like yourself, the best tools to get the job done, often gets the work done faster, easier, and better then using inferior tools.
No doubt someone here will disagree with that mindset, and I am fine with giving those kinds of people the shit tools to work with, if that will make them happy, you go get 'em tiger.
Now, after I give you Saw 1, because you directly told me that you think Saw 1 is the BEST Saw, and then come back to me and explain that you can't use Saw 1, because it hurts your wrist, and you knew this already, the WTF look on my face would stay there for the entire time I asked and expected an answer to "why the hell on this earth did you tell me it was the better saw, when it clearly is far worse for you then Saw 2."
This would be one of those events where, now doubt of I was chewing the fat with those along the chain, they would all also being WTF, and then be like "And that's your best Employee?"
And I would be like "Yah, they are my best employee" allowing the others to ponder what I have to deal with, if that is my best.
Typically, "Done With" often means either they Completed it, or are Fed Up, Disenchanted, Tired of, Etc with it.
Since some games, allow for variable endings or have lots of Easter eggs and side quests, so a player might have completed the game, but still go back and play it, to uncover all Easter eggs, get all the achievements, or see all the ending cinemographs.
I guess someone could split hairs, that if they are still working on all the Achievements, they are not technically "Done with" the game, but that would depend on if someone views Done with to be reached the End, killed the Boss, or done with to mean, done everything they plan to ever do in the game.
Some people might think they are Done with a game, and then realize they in fact missed something and go back to get that last achievement, unlock, or just whatever.
Sometimes DLC's come out, or upgrades, and additional features get added, and thus players will return because now that the game changed, they are no longer "Done with" it.
Other times, when they use "done with" to mean frustrated, or tired of, or Disenchanted, often times, simply taking a break, playing something else, or doing something else with their time, renews their interest in the game. Often this gets called "Done with for now"
Much like, I love Waffles, I think they are the Best Breakfast food out there, and have a few kinds of wafflers, and will admit, like 5 min crafts, I did try to waffle damn near anything I could cook on a stove, Waffled Scrambled Eggs are quite good FYI.
But, sometimes you burn out on waffles, or just want to mix things up a but, so you make some pancakes, or French toast, I mean just because I might think Waffles are the best, does not mean I think everything else sucks big fat hairy balls, it just means, Waffles are more what I like, but even then, too much of a good thing makes you want to try other things. Does not mean I have sworn off Waffles, or will not eat them, just means, I am tired of them for the time being, and looking to expand my palate of breakfast foods.
Then of course you have the Done with, that can be summed up as "Fuck this Fucking Game! I am never playing this Piece of Shit again"
Why people go back to those games, I wager, one of the reasons might be, because regardless of their rage quit, flipping the bird as they walk out the door, they realize that game is better than what else is currently out there, or perhaps they just don't want to fully give up all that time investment.
There are, no doubt, many other reasons why some people return to games they rage quit.
However, the latter choice would no doubt leave me without a gaming rig for the next few paychecks, as I put aside the funds to invest a few grand into a new system, there is also trying to explain this expense to my wife, where try to explain that I would rather spend 4 grand for a new system then 250 for a mother board.
Of course during this time, none of my other computers, like my laptop, can handle MMO's, so for right now, I am not playing anything.
This does not change my feelings on what MMO's I think are better or best, it just means that due to situations, I am dealing with the limitations I have open to me, so I am playing a lot of low demand games, mostly single player things like Darkest Dungeon, and Fallout Shelter, to scratch that gaming itch.
So, much like your example of a screw driver, in this situation, I am using what I have on hand. It's not what I think is best, but what I have available to me.
But I am not talking about situations where one must make due, or has some kind of situation where they have to content themselves with what they have.
But see, when it comes to MMO's, and players having access to them. So if the MMO is still readily accessible to the player, and they chose not to play it, that sends a very mixed message.
That would be like someone telling me, they think Craftsman is the best Screwdrivers, and then go to the Hardware store, and come back with a set of Kobolt.
Now, Kobolt tools are fine tools, and I personally have nothing against their choice to buy Kobolt, but I would be wondering why they bought Kobolt over Craftsman.
Now, sometimes the answer could be "It was on sale, and while not my fav, it's the same quality" which, when it comes to tools, anyone that works with them would totally respect that answer, and this is a prime example of someone trying a new game, playing something else for a change, etc. and Lets be honest, taking a break from a game is pretty common.
There is also a huge difference between no longer playing a game, and taking a break, either of your own volition, or like me, taking a break due to hardware failure.
But if they start to replace all their Craftsman tools with Kobolt, and yet still tell you "Craftsman is the Best" ... at some point, you start to look at them like 2+2 is not equaling 4 in their mind, if you get my drift.
There are arguments on both sides here, we put knowledge and understanding on a pedestal as if it will always lead us to the correct decision. Look at human history, look at your own life, it often does not help or help enough. We can come to rely too much on data and come to believe that it is informing us when it may be deceiving us.
I am a nuance man myself, but it can be a handicap not a way to find the truth or choose the correct course of action.
There is no objective best in MMORPGs as they are broad and heavily nuanced in nature, with the value placed on each of the many elements that combine to make them highly variable between persons due to differences in individual preference and bias.
Very specific elements can be determined objectively, such as poor performance due to a lack of optimization, but the impact that has on how one feels about the game will be subjective. One person could consider it a major fault and it will heavily negatively impact their impression of the game while another could consider it trivial in comparison to the positives they seen in other aspects of it.
The best is not necessarily best suited to one's needs.
For example, I played games with another for many years. She was in a horrific car accident where another vehicle plowed into hers. This caused a severe head injury and she became much more sensitive to some game graphics. As a result the games we had been playing was no longer tolerable for her, as was the case with many with many we tried as a replacement. With ESO we found one she could handle, at least better than those tried to date, and she greatly enjoyed it and I liked it as well.
While I consider City of Heroes the best MMORPG I've ever played, at least so far, it does not currently best meet my needs as my companion can no longer play it.