At level 9 with no CP you cannot be idle for five minutes when being attacked by numerous wolves and take no damage. You will die. Your claim is utter nonsense.
many wolves? Possibly not.
But after I read the claim I went in game and used a level 11 and a level 5 on Bleakrock Isle. Found a polar bear and the bear couldn't kill me. Found a spider the same thing. Finally found a wolf and it barely damaged me. couldn't find a pack of wolves.
Now my account has CP but I haven't assigned it to anything for either character so I assume they should be just like a level 11 and level 5.
Still, mobs are not there to offer challenge, they never are. They are merely encounters that offer a step toward leveling up.
At least in most modern games. In lineage 2 a mob "used to" be able to take you down at lower levels. I imagine the same could be said for Everquest and other more old school games.
But as I've said before, I truly don't believe Delete would like old school games even though he insists that's what he wants.
Things have changed then since I first started, making my claim the questionable one instead. Fair enough.
I never play beta's but I understand ESO was even harder then than it was at launch and I thought the difficulty was challenging then so about right. But MMOs always get ever easier in the long run. The death penalty is too easy but rather than corpse runs which I think we really need to leave to MMO history they could have a "social" penalty, have to spend some time in a Tavern, something like that. Bin the repair costs and even anti social soloers might like it.
The death penalty is fine. The risk of death has become inadequate, at least in overland content. Those genuinely anti-social would find what you propose more costly than repairs. They would not like it and depending on the degree such is their nature may very well despise it.
At level 9 with no CP you cannot be idle for five minutes when being attacked by numerous wolves and take no damage. You will die. Your claim is utter nonsense.
many wolves? Possibly not.
But after I read the claim I went in game and used a level 11 and a level 5 on Bleakrock Isle. Found a polar bear and the bear couldn't kill me. Found a spider the same thing. Finally found a wolf and it barely damaged me. couldn't find a pack of wolves.
Now my account has CP but I haven't assigned it to anything for either character so I assume they should be just like a level 11 and level 5.
Still, mobs are not there to offer challenge, they never are. They are merely encounters that offer a step toward leveling up.
At least in most modern games. In lineage 2 a mob "used to" be able to take you down at lower levels. I imagine the same could be said for Everquest and other more old school games.
But as I've said before, I truly don't believe Delete would like old school games even though he insists that's what he wants.
Things have changed then since I first started, making my claim the questionable one instead. Fair enough.
I never play beta's but I understand ESO was even harder then than it was at launch and I thought the difficulty was challenging then so about right. But MMOs always get ever easier in the long run. The death penalty is too easy but rather than corpse runs which I think we really need to leave to MMO history they could have a "social" penalty, have to spend some time in a Tavern, something like that. Bin the repair costs and even anti social soloers might like it.
You know what? Way back when I read a SWG review in Computer Gaming World and of the the biggest factors for me deciding not to play was their description of the "social" downtimes built into the launch.
The Cantinas might have been bearable, but when they doubled down mentioning long lines of players waiting for a player "doctor" to heal their injuries and I wasn't having any of that.
I think the social downtimes were toned way back later on but by then plenty of other issues had come to light which kept it off of my list, all for the better as it turns out.
The first to push forward a great idea don't always implement it that well, as far as I know SWG started that idea. Rather than tying the "death fatigue" to other players you could tie it to locations. You have to be in the spaceport "tavern" for a certain amount of time, maybe buy a drink and a meal...on the house for hard working heroes, put a coin in the hat for the band to play. Now this may not seem as directly social as the SWG way, but it gets bums on seats, and you could use other methods to pull people into the socialising venue to give it a lively feel.
At level 9 with no CP you cannot be idle for five minutes when being attacked by numerous wolves and take no damage. You will die. Your claim is utter nonsense.
many wolves? Possibly not.
But after I read the claim I went in game and used a level 11 and a level 5 on Bleakrock Isle. Found a polar bear and the bear couldn't kill me. Found a spider the same thing. Finally found a wolf and it barely damaged me. couldn't find a pack of wolves.
Now my account has CP but I haven't assigned it to anything for either character so I assume they should be just like a level 11 and level 5.
Still, mobs are not there to offer challenge, they never are. They are merely encounters that offer a step toward leveling up.
At least in most modern games. In lineage 2 a mob "used to" be able to take you down at lower levels. I imagine the same could be said for Everquest and other more old school games.
But as I've said before, I truly don't believe Delete would like old school games even though he insists that's what he wants.
Things have changed then since I first started, making my claim the questionable one instead. Fair enough.
I never play beta's but I understand ESO was even harder then than it was at launch and I thought the difficulty was challenging then so about right. But MMOs always get ever easier in the long run. The death penalty is too easy but rather than corpse runs which I think we really need to leave to MMO history they could have a "social" penalty, have to spend some time in a Tavern, something like that. Bin the repair costs and even anti social soloers might like it.
You know what? Way back when I read a SWG review in Computer Gaming World and of the the biggest factors for me deciding not to play was their description of the "social" downtimes built into the launch.
The Cantinas might have been bearable, but when they doubled down mentioning long lines of players waiting for a player "doctor" to heal their injuries and I wasn't having any of that.
I think the social downtimes were toned way back later on but by then plenty of other issues had come to light which kept it off of my list, all for the better as it turns out.
The first to push forward a great idea don't always implement it that well, as far as I know SWG started that idea. Rather than tying the "death fatigue" to other players you could tie it to locations. You have to be in the spaceport "tavern" for a certain amount of time, maybe buy a drink and a meal...on the house for hard working heroes, put a coin in the hat for the band to play. Now this may not seem as directly social as the SWG way, but it gets bums on seats, and you could use other methods to pull people into the socialising venue to give it a lively feel.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
That sounds a helluva lot better (to me) than slogging through more "MMORPG" games with watered down versions of the same exact game systems and loops you can play in singpeplayer or regular ole multiplayer games.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
Outside of public dungeons and certain delve bosses, you won't find a challenge until you approach max level and go into "epic" zones. I would encourage you to level through battlegrounds which is really the best part of the game (until max level where it becomes a joke).
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
That sounds a helluva lot better (to me) than slogging through more "MMORPG" games with watered down versions of the same exact game systems and loops you can play in singpeplayer or regular ole multiplayer games.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
The idea that there is a relentless push to socialise did make me smile, quite the opposite with soloers doing everything they can to ignore the rest of the player base.
At level 9 with no CP you cannot be idle for five minutes when being attacked by numerous wolves and take no damage. You will die. Your claim is utter nonsense.
many wolves? Possibly not.
But after I read the claim I went in game and used a level 11 and a level 5 on Bleakrock Isle. Found a polar bear and the bear couldn't kill me. Found a spider the same thing. Finally found a wolf and it barely damaged me. couldn't find a pack of wolves.
Now my account has CP but I haven't assigned it to anything for either character so I assume they should be just like a level 11 and level 5.
Still, mobs are not there to offer challenge, they never are. They are merely encounters that offer a step toward leveling up.
At least in most modern games. In lineage 2 a mob "used to" be able to take you down at lower levels. I imagine the same could be said for Everquest and other more old school games.
But as I've said before, I truly don't believe Delete would like old school games even though he insists that's what he wants.
Things have changed then since I first started, making my claim the questionable one instead. Fair enough.
I never play beta's but I understand ESO was even harder then than it was at launch and I thought the difficulty was challenging then so about right. But MMOs always get ever easier in the long run. The death penalty is too easy but rather than corpse runs which I think we really need to leave to MMO history they could have a "social" penalty, have to spend some time in a Tavern, something like that. Bin the repair costs and even anti social soloers might like it.
You know what? Way back when I read a SWG review in Computer Gaming World and of the the biggest factors for me deciding not to play was their description of the "social" downtimes built into the launch.
The Cantinas might have been bearable, but when they doubled down mentioning long lines of players waiting for a player "doctor" to heal their injuries and I wasn't having any of that.
I think the social downtimes were toned way back later on but by then plenty of other issues had come to light which kept it off of my list, all for the better as it turns out.
The first to push forward a great idea don't always implement it that well, as far as I know SWG started that idea. Rather than tying the "death fatigue" to other players you could tie it to locations. You have to be in the spaceport "tavern" for a certain amount of time, maybe buy a drink and a meal...on the house for hard working heroes, put a coin in the hat for the band to play. Now this may not seem as directly social as the SWG way, but it gets bums on seats, and you could use other methods to pull people into the socialising venue to give it a lively feel.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
I think SP games are a different thing than MMORPGs. If you're going to play games with other players, then there should be some interactions. You call it "forced", I call it "natural." Still, some ideas are too much, that I can agree with.
But for those who don't agree with me, consider playing a Mulit-Player game with, say, a team of 8. But instead of interacting with those others, healing and teamwork, you each just go off on your own. What sense does that make? And what sense does an MMORPG make when players don't interact? Solo games are all you have left. Soloing among the masses. Yeah, that makes sense.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
That sounds a helluva lot better (to me) than slogging through more "MMORPG" games with watered down versions of the same exact game systems and loops you can play in singpeplayer or regular ole multiplayer games.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
That's fine, for you... and others of like mind.
What is not fine is pushing on those not of like mind.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
That sounds a helluva lot better (to me) than slogging through more "MMORPG" games with watered down versions of the same exact game systems and loops you can play in singpeplayer or regular ole multiplayer games.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
The idea that there is a relentless push to socialise did make me smile, quite the opposite with soloers doing everything they can to ignore the rest of the player base.
Within the games themselves it has become quite the opposite. Outside of the games, in forums such as this, is where the relentless push resides.
At level 9 with no CP you cannot be idle for five minutes when being attacked by numerous wolves and take no damage. You will die. Your claim is utter nonsense.
many wolves? Possibly not.
But after I read the claim I went in game and used a level 11 and a level 5 on Bleakrock Isle. Found a polar bear and the bear couldn't kill me. Found a spider the same thing. Finally found a wolf and it barely damaged me. couldn't find a pack of wolves.
Now my account has CP but I haven't assigned it to anything for either character so I assume they should be just like a level 11 and level 5.
Still, mobs are not there to offer challenge, they never are. They are merely encounters that offer a step toward leveling up.
At least in most modern games. In lineage 2 a mob "used to" be able to take you down at lower levels. I imagine the same could be said for Everquest and other more old school games.
But as I've said before, I truly don't believe Delete would like old school games even though he insists that's what he wants.
Things have changed then since I first started, making my claim the questionable one instead. Fair enough.
I never play beta's but I understand ESO was even harder then than it was at launch and I thought the difficulty was challenging then so about right. But MMOs always get ever easier in the long run. The death penalty is too easy but rather than corpse runs which I think we really need to leave to MMO history they could have a "social" penalty, have to spend some time in a Tavern, something like that. Bin the repair costs and even anti social soloers might like it.
You know what? Way back when I read a SWG review in Computer Gaming World and of the the biggest factors for me deciding not to play was their description of the "social" downtimes built into the launch.
The Cantinas might have been bearable, but when they doubled down mentioning long lines of players waiting for a player "doctor" to heal their injuries and I wasn't having any of that.
I think the social downtimes were toned way back later on but by then plenty of other issues had come to light which kept it off of my list, all for the better as it turns out.
The first to push forward a great idea don't always implement it that well, as far as I know SWG started that idea. Rather than tying the "death fatigue" to other players you could tie it to locations. You have to be in the spaceport "tavern" for a certain amount of time, maybe buy a drink and a meal...on the house for hard working heroes, put a coin in the hat for the band to play. Now this may not seem as directly social as the SWG way, but it gets bums on seats, and you could use other methods to pull people into the socialising venue to give it a lively feel.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
I think SP games are a different thing than MMORPGs. If you're going to play games with other players, then there should be some interactions. You call it "forced", I call it "natural." Still, some ideas are too much, that I can agree with.
But for those who don't agree with me, consider playing a Mulit-Player game with, say, a team of 8. But instead of interacting with those others, healing and teamwork, you each just go off on your own. What sense does that make? And what sense does an MMORPG make when players don't interact? Solo games are all you have left. Soloing among the masses. Yeah, that makes sense.
Social interaction is not ubiquitously natural in that all persons are not naturally social. For some being anti-social is simply a matter of preference, so they chose to stick to themselves are perhaps a small circle otherwise. For some it is a symptom of crippling social anxiety such that interactions with others can induce a great deal of stress.
Either could choose to play solo games, or those confined to small teams if open to some socialization. Many make that choice I'm sure.
These days they can also choose to play MMORPGs with relative ease. What sense does it make? That's for the individual to decide. It doesn't matter if it makes sense. It need not.
I can not speak as to why others do so, but I can for myself.
The presence of other players provides indirect benefit to me. I don't need to craft and collect everything for myself. They can also provide direct benefit to me in games such as ESO and GW2 where players can spontaneously work together seamlessly simply due to proximity. Though I do not generally find others I wish to routinely play with in MMORPGs it is not altogether impossible while it is in solo games and less likely in games built around small groups simply due to the number of concurrent encounters possible.
Also, I discovered through Covid that being deprived with the minimal tangential contact I normally have with others in the real world is psychologically harmful to me. Now knowing that, I think it quite possible simply being around others in MMORPGs regardless of my depth of interaction with them may have had a similar benefit to me on a subconscious level all along.
After all, it's not as though I personally played MMORPGs solo only when it became so accommodated as it has become. I have always done so since when I started, back when UO and Asheron's Call boxes demanded space on store shelves.
Quite frankly, it doesn't need to make sense, not even to those that choose to play MMORPGs solo. It is what it is, and we need not justify it to others or ourselves.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
That sounds a helluva lot better (to me) than slogging through more "MMORPG" games with watered down versions of the same exact game systems and loops you can play in singpeplayer or regular ole multiplayer games.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
That's fine, for you... and others of like mind.
What is not fine is pushing on those not of like mind.
Except if you are playing a multiplayer game, even an mmorpg, it's not pushing or "forced."
For some reason people have bought into the idea that "it's a world and like the real world I get to do what I want whether by myself or in a group."
I think mmorpg's for the most part are created specifically for multiplayer interaction. Otherwise hell, they could just give players the ability to shut off other players and be done with it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
For some reason people have bought into the idea that "it's a world and like the real world I get to do what I want whether by myself or in a group."
There's no buy in required. That is what they are and what they have always been.
Players used to be giddy with excitement over the the fact that "Holy shit, I can play with all these other people!" when that was a new thing so they did it and loved it and soloers were considered weird.
2 decades later playing with others is so routine in so many games that it is the norm - even to the point that there are vocal groups of players that apparently have a hard time accepting that Cyberpunk and Starfield are single player games. That playing with others thing is very old hat now.
MMOs are no longer unique in their multiplayer game play. What they could do that is unique to them is create game play loops for very large groups to congregate and participate in something that requires huge numbers of players and lasts more than 5 minutes. But most of them don't do that thing which could set them apart from the run of the mill multiplayer games.
And besides, hardly anyone plays MMOs these days to make new friends which is the thrust of most pro-forced grouping arguments. "I met so many people and made so many new friends just doing corpse runs!" goes the typical "good ole days" story.
Well guess what? The reality is that the vast majority of playing together in MMOs these days is done by small groups of friends that play together and have played together in many multiplayer games. They have zero interest in meeting new people. They are actually the worst kind of anti-social players except they do it in a group of 2-4 instead of just 1.
"It's an MMO so you must group" is just total horseshit. The proper way of looking at it is "It's an MMO so you can group."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
That sounds a helluva lot better (to me) than slogging through more "MMORPG" games with watered down versions of the same exact game systems and loops you can play in singpeplayer or regular ole multiplayer games.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
That's fine, for you... and others of like mind.
What is not fine is pushing on those not of like mind.
Except if you are playing a multiplayer game, even an mmorpg, it's not pushing or "forced."
For some reason people have bought into the idea that "it's a world and like the real world I get to do what I want whether by myself or in a group."
I think mmorpg's for the most part are created specifically for multiplayer interaction. Otherwise hell, they could just give players the ability to shut off other players and be done with it.
When you think about it, many (most?) MMORPGS do give you the ability to shut off other players. From turning off global chats, block dueling, guild / group invites, sometimes letting one flag as afk or offline even when actually in game.
Permiting players to run group content solo by intent or through over leveling, since my earliest days in Lineage 1 and DAOC I ran multiple accounts so I could form my own groups or power level my alts, solo preferably though I would help out guildmates when asked.
Heck in EVE I multi-boxed clients on machine, which gave me 4 miners, one hauler and a personal booster, my own personal mining fleet which was total happiness.
I probably play MMORPGS 85% solo and 15% grouped when it suits me, for over 20 years now.
I avoid grouping for the most part, especially with randos, played 4 months of LA, grouped only a handful of times with some friends.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What is not fine is pushing on those not of like mind.
Your original comment came in response to someone describing a social buff system that (presumably, though I'll concede Scot didn't think to clarify that from the outset) would not be mandatory just to play the game.
In fact, Project: Gorgon has just this sort of social buff system. Guess what? Those who want the buff or to dance to the performance do, and those who don't, keep jogging by. What's more, players naturally gather at hubs to do this, so even players who don't give a shit for such a feature can get a nice little buff for a while if they happen to AFK in, say, Serbule town square.
So who is really trying to push their preferred playstyle on who?
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
That sounds a helluva lot better (to me) than slogging through more "MMORPG" games with watered down versions of the same exact game systems and loops you can play in singpeplayer or regular ole multiplayer games.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
That's fine, for you... and others of like mind.
What is not fine is pushing on those not of like mind.
Except if you are playing a multiplayer game, even an mmorpg, it's not pushing or "forced."
For some reason people have bought into the idea that "it's a world and like the real world I get to do what I want whether by myself or in a group."
I think mmorpg's for the most part are created specifically for multiplayer interaction. Otherwise hell, they could just give players the ability to shut off other players and be done with it.
When you think about it, many (most?) MMORPGS do give you the ability to shut off other players. From turning off global chats, block dueling, guild / group invites, sometimes letting one flag as afk or offline even when actually in game.
Permiting players to run group content solo by intent or through over leveling, since my earliest days in Lineage 1 and DAOC I ran multiple accounts so I could form my own groups or power level my alts, solo preferably though I would help out guildmates when asked.
Heck in EVE I multi-boxed clients on machine, which gave me 4 miners, one hauler and a personal booster, my own personal mining fleet which was total happiness.
I probably play MMORPGS 85% solo and 15% grouped when it suits me, for over 20 years now.
I avoid grouping for the most part, especially with randos, played 4 months of LA, grouped only a handful of times with some friends.
Those things are hurdles taken outside the game's systems to try and avoid grouping.
Indeed, the fact you had to run multiple accounts/instances of the game to avoid grouping is pretty good evidence the game systems themselves are designed for multiplayer interaction.
At level 9 with no CP you cannot be idle for five minutes when being attacked by numerous wolves and take no damage. You will die. Your claim is utter nonsense.
many wolves? Possibly not.
But after I read the claim I went in game and used a level 11 and a level 5 on Bleakrock Isle. Found a polar bear and the bear couldn't kill me. Found a spider the same thing. Finally found a wolf and it barely damaged me. couldn't find a pack of wolves.
Now my account has CP but I haven't assigned it to anything for either character so I assume they should be just like a level 11 and level 5.
Still, mobs are not there to offer challenge, they never are. They are merely encounters that offer a step toward leveling up.
At least in most modern games. In lineage 2 a mob "used to" be able to take you down at lower levels. I imagine the same could be said for Everquest and other more old school games.
But as I've said before, I truly don't believe Delete would like old school games even though he insists that's what he wants.
Things have changed then since I first started, making my claim the questionable one instead. Fair enough.
I never play beta's but I understand ESO was even harder then than it was at launch and I thought the difficulty was challenging then so about right. But MMOs always get ever easier in the long run. The death penalty is too easy but rather than corpse runs which I think we really need to leave to MMO history they could have a "social" penalty, have to spend some time in a Tavern, something like that. Bin the repair costs and even anti social soloers might like it.
You know what? Way back when I read a SWG review in Computer Gaming World and of the the biggest factors for me deciding not to play was their description of the "social" downtimes built into the launch.
The Cantinas might have been bearable, but when they doubled down mentioning long lines of players waiting for a player "doctor" to heal their injuries and I wasn't having any of that.
I think the social downtimes were toned way back later on but by then plenty of other issues had come to light which kept it off of my list, all for the better as it turns out.
The first to push forward a great idea don't always implement it that well, as far as I know SWG started that idea. Rather than tying the "death fatigue" to other players you could tie it to locations. You have to be in the spaceport "tavern" for a certain amount of time, maybe buy a drink and a meal...on the house for hard working heroes, put a coin in the hat for the band to play. Now this may not seem as directly social as the SWG way, but it gets bums on seats, and you could use other methods to pull people into the socialising venue to give it a lively feel.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
I think SP games are a different thing than MMORPGs. If you're going to play games with other players, then there should be some interactions. You call it "forced", I call it "natural." Still, some ideas are too much, that I can agree with.
But for those who don't agree with me, consider playing a Mulit-Player game with, say, a team of 8. But instead of interacting with those others, healing and teamwork, you each just go off on your own. What sense does that make? And what sense does an MMORPG make when players don't interact? Solo games are all you have left. Soloing among the masses. Yeah, that makes sense.
Social interaction is not ubiquitously natural in that all persons are not naturally social. For some being anti-social is simply a matter of preference, so they chose to stick to themselves are perhaps a small circle otherwise. For some it is a symptom of crippling social anxiety such that interactions with others can induce a great deal of stress.
Either could choose to play solo games, or those confined to small teams if open to some socialization. Many make that choice I'm sure.
These days they can also choose to play MMORPGs with relative ease. What sense does it make? That's for the individual to decide. It doesn't matter if it makes sense. It need not.
I can not speak as to why others do so, but I can for myself.
The presence of other players provides indirect benefit to me. I don't need to craft and collect everything for myself. They can also provide direct benefit to me in games such as ESO and GW2 where players can spontaneously work together seamlessly simply due to proximity. Though I do not generally find others I wish to routinely play with in MMORPGs it is not altogether impossible while it is in solo games and less likely in games built around small groups simply due to the number of concurrent encounters possible.
Also, I discovered through Covid that being deprived with the minimal tangential contact I normally have with others in the real world is psychologically harmful to me. Now knowing that, I think it quite possible simply being around others in MMORPGs regardless of my depth of interaction with them may have had a similar benefit to me on a subconscious level all along.
After all, it's not as though I personally played MMORPGs solo only when it became so accommodated as it has become. I have always done so since when I started, back when UO and Asheron's Call boxes demanded space on store shelves.
Quite frankly, it doesn't need to make sense, not even to those that choose to play MMORPGs solo. It is what it is, and we need not justify it to others or ourselves.
People are social animals. But that's fine, continue with your dream games.
At level 9 with no CP you cannot be idle for five minutes when being attacked by numerous wolves and take no damage. You will die. Your claim is utter nonsense.
many wolves? Possibly not.
But after I read the claim I went in game and used a level 11 and a level 5 on Bleakrock Isle. Found a polar bear and the bear couldn't kill me. Found a spider the same thing. Finally found a wolf and it barely damaged me. couldn't find a pack of wolves.
Now my account has CP but I haven't assigned it to anything for either character so I assume they should be just like a level 11 and level 5.
Still, mobs are not there to offer challenge, they never are. They are merely encounters that offer a step toward leveling up.
At least in most modern games. In lineage 2 a mob "used to" be able to take you down at lower levels. I imagine the same could be said for Everquest and other more old school games.
But as I've said before, I truly don't believe Delete would like old school games even though he insists that's what he wants.
Things have changed then since I first started, making my claim the questionable one instead. Fair enough.
I never play beta's but I understand ESO was even harder then than it was at launch and I thought the difficulty was challenging then so about right. But MMOs always get ever easier in the long run. The death penalty is too easy but rather than corpse runs which I think we really need to leave to MMO history they could have a "social" penalty, have to spend some time in a Tavern, something like that. Bin the repair costs and even anti social soloers might like it.
You know what? Way back when I read a SWG review in Computer Gaming World and of the the biggest factors for me deciding not to play was their description of the "social" downtimes built into the launch.
The Cantinas might have been bearable, but when they doubled down mentioning long lines of players waiting for a player "doctor" to heal their injuries and I wasn't having any of that.
I think the social downtimes were toned way back later on but by then plenty of other issues had come to light which kept it off of my list, all for the better as it turns out.
The first to push forward a great idea don't always implement it that well, as far as I know SWG started that idea. Rather than tying the "death fatigue" to other players you could tie it to locations. You have to be in the spaceport "tavern" for a certain amount of time, maybe buy a drink and a meal...on the house for hard working heroes, put a coin in the hat for the band to play. Now this may not seem as directly social as the SWG way, but it gets bums on seats, and you could use other methods to pull people into the socialising venue to give it a lively feel.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
I think SP games are a different thing than MMORPGs. If you're going to play games with other players, then there should be some interactions. You call it "forced", I call it "natural." Still, some ideas are too much, that I can agree with.
But for those who don't agree with me, consider playing a Mulit-Player game with, say, a team of 8. But instead of interacting with those others, healing and teamwork, you each just go off on your own. What sense does that make? And what sense does an MMORPG make when players don't interact? Solo games are all you have left. Soloing among the masses. Yeah, that makes sense.
Agreed, with a caveat: I want to interact, NOT "have to group" to play. I want help others if I can, I want to focus a task for myself when I want to.
As for "forced socialization", I laugh at players who CHOOSE to play an MMO and "feel forced" to socialize.
Just my thoughts
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I am heading of now to Co-Op.com and TeamFPS.com to tell them they shouldn't be playing together or have any sort of social interaction. I'm relentless!
At level 9 with no CP you cannot be idle for five minutes when being attacked by numerous wolves and take no damage. You will die. Your claim is utter nonsense.
many wolves? Possibly not.
But after I read the claim I went in game and used a level 11 and a level 5 on Bleakrock Isle. Found a polar bear and the bear couldn't kill me. Found a spider the same thing. Finally found a wolf and it barely damaged me. couldn't find a pack of wolves.
Now my account has CP but I haven't assigned it to anything for either character so I assume they should be just like a level 11 and level 5.
Still, mobs are not there to offer challenge, they never are. They are merely encounters that offer a step toward leveling up.
At least in most modern games. In lineage 2 a mob "used to" be able to take you down at lower levels. I imagine the same could be said for Everquest and other more old school games.
But as I've said before, I truly don't believe Delete would like old school games even though he insists that's what he wants.
Things have changed then since I first started, making my claim the questionable one instead. Fair enough.
I never play beta's but I understand ESO was even harder then than it was at launch and I thought the difficulty was challenging then so about right. But MMOs always get ever easier in the long run. The death penalty is too easy but rather than corpse runs which I think we really need to leave to MMO history they could have a "social" penalty, have to spend some time in a Tavern, something like that. Bin the repair costs and even anti social soloers might like it.
You know what? Way back when I read a SWG review in Computer Gaming World and of the the biggest factors for me deciding not to play was their description of the "social" downtimes built into the launch.
The Cantinas might have been bearable, but when they doubled down mentioning long lines of players waiting for a player "doctor" to heal their injuries and I wasn't having any of that.
I think the social downtimes were toned way back later on but by then plenty of other issues had come to light which kept it off of my list, all for the better as it turns out.
The first to push forward a great idea don't always implement it that well, as far as I know SWG started that idea. Rather than tying the "death fatigue" to other players you could tie it to locations. You have to be in the spaceport "tavern" for a certain amount of time, maybe buy a drink and a meal...on the house for hard working heroes, put a coin in the hat for the band to play. Now this may not seem as directly social as the SWG way, but it gets bums on seats, and you could use other methods to pull people into the socialising venue to give it a lively feel.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
I think SP games are a different thing than MMORPGs. If you're going to play games with other players, then there should be some interactions. You call it "forced", I call it "natural." Still, some ideas are too much, that I can agree with.
But for those who don't agree with me, consider playing a Mulit-Player game with, say, a team of 8. But instead of interacting with those others, healing and teamwork, you each just go off on your own. What sense does that make? And what sense does an MMORPG make when players don't interact? Solo games are all you have left. Soloing among the masses. Yeah, that makes sense.
Agreed, with a caveat: I want to interact, NOT "have to group" to play. I want help others if I can, I want to focus a task for myself when I want to.
As for "forced socialization", I laugh at players who CHOOSE to play an MMO and "feel forced" to socialize.
Just my thoughts
Oh, of course. Forced grouping doesn't make for socialization, that's "team play." How many players in groups don't say a word to each other, other than instructions, and then never see those players again? That's not socialization in my mind. I mean: - Trade, repairs, and repeat connections that allow players to get a little familiarity. The more options here the better. - Making agreements for bulk stuff, reagents or herbs, ore, lumber, etc., arrows, potions, scrolls, and all the things that players should be making as part of the economy. - Guild alliances. - Player run caravans, shipping, mines, lumber yards, and anything of that sort. When security is a concern (PvP or PvE) or just a need for more than one, Guilds would do well for these part time regular events.
I mean, there are loads of things that can give players some loose interdependence (trading out NPCs for it) in an MMORPG. When players interact, they get to know a little bit about those they deal with, and that builds loose but effective "communities" (in the loosest form of the term. But no one has to interact, other than to buy stuff they can't make themselves. That's almost like a vending machine, with or without direct contact. But it's an opportunity for social interaction that can naturally grow into more, if desired. And at least remove some of the negative feelings for others in MMORPGs.
This is a bunch of shit, Using the words "forced grouping". People using words like this are doing so to slander and undermine to make their point stronger and the ones that like grouping weak.
Everyone knows a well developed game has ALL ASPECTS for everyone.
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
That sounds a helluva lot better (to me) than slogging through more "MMORPG" games with watered down versions of the same exact game systems and loops you can play in singpeplayer or regular ole multiplayer games.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
That's fine, for you... and others of like mind.
What is not fine is pushing on those not of like mind.
Except if you are playing a multiplayer game, even an mmorpg, it's not pushing or "forced."
For some reason people have bought into the idea that "it's a world and like the real world I get to do what I want whether by myself or in a group."
I think mmorpg's for the most part are created specifically for multiplayer interaction. Otherwise hell, they could just give players the ability to shut off other players and be done with it.
When you think about it, many (most?) MMORPGS do give you the ability to shut off other players. From turning off global chats, block dueling, guild / group invites, sometimes letting one flag as afk or offline even when actually in game.
Permiting players to run group content solo by intent or through over leveling, since my earliest days in Lineage 1 and DAOC I ran multiple accounts so I could form my own groups or power level my alts, solo preferably though I would help out guildmates when asked.
Heck in EVE I multi-boxed clients on machine, which gave me 4 miners, one hauler and a personal booster, my own personal mining fleet which was total happiness.
I probably play MMORPGS 85% solo and 15% grouped when it suits me, for over 20 years now.
I avoid grouping for the most part, especially with randos, played 4 months of LA, grouped only a handful of times with some friends.
I suppose what I'm saying is that it's a multiplayer game and it's built in that you will have to deal with other players on some level.
I mostly soloed in Lineage 2 but there were things that required groups of people, whether it's certain dungeons or even sieging.
I think some people expect everything to be solo as that's what they want but if some things require grouping and a player wants to do these things, then grouping that player will do.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
This is where a Keep Calm and Carry on Posting comes in handy.
Normally yes Scot But in this case its justified, "forced grouping" would be to slander.
I don't like games that are "forced soloing", this right here proves my point, it undermines the solo player. Right
Funny story, it's been quite a few years since I've run into it but in Lost Ark I have run into "forced grouping" in a major way though I suppose other games have had it but were more subtle.
I was able to level my characters to max, then improve their gear score through doing solo Chaos Dungeons and the painful honing system to 1370 but then "hit the wall."
There is absolutely no way to increase my gear score unless I am willing to run Abyssal dungeons on hard mode to get the next level of pieces that will permit me to improve them.
Surprisely there isn't even a way to buy your way past this in the cash shop despite the many claims about how P2W LA is.
Makes sense though, theres no actual in game need to be higher than GS 1345 to access the current level of open world content, South Vern and I guess if there ever is new OW content added they'll add a "pity" system to the solo Chaos dungeons to assist with catching up because is clear the Devs have done this before in previous content expansions.
Now I realize this really isn't much different than WOW or most any other MMORPGS end game system which are usually "raid or die" but I think LAs system of providing hard numbers to the gear scores puts in in a players face more than others.
I quit WOW two years after launch because of this sort of design, then tried and quit numerous post WOW games in the years following only to find this same design in almost all of them, hence I quickly returned to EVE or other MMOs with less restrictive "end game" designs like DAOC freeshards.
ESO did a good job hiding the raid or die design, it's in there but one can circumvent or avoid it quite a bit w/o feeling like your progress has come to a halt.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Look, players don't exist to provide a lively feel for others to enjoy. Those that want to socialize are fully capable of doing so on their own. MMORPGs in general provide ample opportunity for those so inclined.
The relentless push to force socialization on those disinclined gets to the point of being abusive. It is like being relentlessly pursued by a pack of stalkers that don't understand that no means no. Stop it, please.
The state of the industry would speak to the current path being more of a weak limp than a run, or even a jog. I mean, so long as you don't use the "every multiplayer online game is an MMORPG" definition. Doesn't seem useful to try and make the case a genre is healthy by including games that are nothing like the genre's core definition, though. Seems like hiding bad numbers to me.
Not even World of Warcraft has resisted.
FFXIV gained a resurgence recently, but based on what I've seen, it was very little new players to the genre and very much a case of passing players back and forth between WoW and FFXIV.
The MMORPG genre, designing games the way you describe, are suffering the slow death of irrelevance.
Still, some ideas are too much, that I can agree with.
But for those who don't agree with me, consider playing a Mulit-Player game with, say, a team of 8. But instead of interacting with those others, healing and teamwork, you each just go off on your own.
What sense does that make? And what sense does an MMORPG make when players don't interact?
Solo games are all you have left. Soloing among the masses. Yeah, that makes sense.
Once upon a time....
That's fine, for you... and others of like mind.
What is not fine is pushing on those not of like mind.
Within the games themselves it has become quite the opposite. Outside of the games, in forums such as this, is where the relentless push resides.
Social interaction is not ubiquitously natural in that all persons are not naturally social. For some being anti-social is simply a matter of preference, so they chose to stick to themselves are perhaps a small circle otherwise. For some it is a symptom of crippling social anxiety such that interactions with others can induce a great deal of stress.
Either could choose to play solo games, or those confined to small teams if open to some socialization. Many make that choice I'm sure.
These days they can also choose to play MMORPGs with relative ease. What sense does it make? That's for the individual to decide. It doesn't matter if it makes sense. It need not.
I can not speak as to why others do so, but I can for myself.
The presence of other players provides indirect benefit to me. I don't need to craft and collect everything for myself. They can also provide direct benefit to me in games such as ESO and GW2 where players can spontaneously work together seamlessly simply due to proximity. Though I do not generally find others I wish to routinely play with in MMORPGs it is not altogether impossible while it is in solo games and less likely in games built around small groups simply due to the number of concurrent encounters possible.
Also, I discovered through Covid that being deprived with the minimal tangential contact I normally have with others in the real world is psychologically harmful to me. Now knowing that, I think it quite possible simply being around others in MMORPGs regardless of my depth of interaction with them may have had a similar benefit to me on a subconscious level all along.
After all, it's not as though I personally played MMORPGs solo only when it became so accommodated as it has become. I have always done so since when I started, back when UO and Asheron's Call boxes demanded space on store shelves.
Quite frankly, it doesn't need to make sense, not even to those that choose to play MMORPGs solo. It is what it is, and we need not justify it to others or ourselves.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Players used to be giddy with excitement over the the fact that "Holy shit, I can play with all these other people!" when that was a new thing so they did it and loved it and soloers were considered weird.
2 decades later playing with others is so routine in so many games that it is the norm - even to the point that there are vocal groups of players that apparently have a hard time accepting that Cyberpunk and Starfield are single player games. That playing with others thing is very old hat now.
MMOs are no longer unique in their multiplayer game play. What they could do that is unique to them is create game play loops for very large groups to congregate and participate in something that requires huge numbers of players and lasts more than 5 minutes. But most of them don't do that thing which could set them apart from the run of the mill multiplayer games.
And besides, hardly anyone plays MMOs these days to make new friends which is the thrust of most pro-forced grouping arguments. "I met so many people and made so many new friends just doing corpse runs!" goes the typical "good ole days" story.
Well guess what? The reality is that the vast majority of playing together in MMOs these days is done by small groups of friends that play together and have played together in many multiplayer games. They have zero interest in meeting new people. They are actually the worst kind of anti-social players except they do it in a group of 2-4 instead of just 1.
"It's an MMO so you must group" is just total horseshit. The proper way of looking at it is "It's an MMO so you can group."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Permiting players to run group content solo by intent or through over leveling, since my earliest days in Lineage 1 and DAOC I ran multiple accounts so I could form my own groups or power level my alts, solo preferably though I would help out guildmates when asked.
Heck in EVE I multi-boxed clients on machine, which gave me 4 miners, one hauler and a personal booster, my own personal mining fleet which was total happiness.
I probably play MMORPGS 85% solo and 15% grouped when it suits me, for over 20 years now.
I avoid grouping for the most part, especially with randos, played 4 months of LA, grouped only a handful of times with some friends.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In fact, Project: Gorgon has just this sort of social buff system. Guess what? Those who want the buff or to dance to the performance do, and those who don't, keep jogging by. What's more, players naturally gather at hubs to do this, so even players who don't give a shit for such a feature can get a nice little buff for a while if they happen to AFK in, say, Serbule town square.
So who is really trying to push their preferred playstyle on who?
Indeed, the fact you had to run multiple accounts/instances of the game to avoid grouping is pretty good evidence the game systems themselves are designed for multiplayer interaction.
Once upon a time....
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I mean:
- Trade, repairs, and repeat connections that allow players to get a little familiarity. The more options here the better.
- Making agreements for bulk stuff, reagents or herbs, ore, lumber, etc., arrows, potions, scrolls, and all the things that players should be making as part of the economy.
- Guild alliances.
- Player run caravans, shipping, mines, lumber yards, and anything of that sort. When security is a concern (PvP or PvE) or just a need for more than one, Guilds would do well for these part time regular events.
I mean, there are loads of things that can give players some loose interdependence (trading out NPCs for it) in an MMORPG.
When players interact, they get to know a little bit about those they deal with, and that builds loose but effective "communities" (in the loosest form of the term.
But no one has to interact, other than to buy stuff they can't make themselves. That's almost like a vending machine, with or without direct contact. But it's an opportunity for social interaction that can naturally grow into more, if desired. And at least remove some of the negative feelings for others in MMORPGs.
Once upon a time....
Using the words "forced grouping". People using words like this are doing so to slander and undermine to make their point stronger and the ones that like grouping weak.
Everyone knows a well developed game has ALL ASPECTS for everyone.
Several of you people ae bullshit !
But in this case its justified, "forced grouping" would be to slander.
I don't like games that are "forced soloing", this right here proves my point, it undermines the solo player. Right
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I was able to level my characters to max, then improve their gear score through doing solo Chaos Dungeons and the painful honing system to 1370 but then "hit the wall."
There is absolutely no way to increase my gear score unless I am willing to run Abyssal dungeons on hard mode to get the next level of pieces that will permit me to improve them.
Surprisely there isn't even a way to buy your way past this in the cash shop despite the many claims about how P2W LA is.
Makes sense though, theres no actual in game need to be higher than GS 1345 to access the current level of open world content, South Vern and I guess if there ever is new OW content added they'll add a "pity" system to the solo Chaos dungeons to assist with catching up because is clear the Devs have done this before in previous content expansions.
Now I realize this really isn't much different than WOW or most any other MMORPGS end game system which are usually "raid or die" but I think LAs system of providing hard numbers to the gear scores puts in in a players face more than others.
I quit WOW two years after launch because of this sort of design, then tried and quit numerous post WOW games in the years following only to find this same design in almost all of them, hence I quickly returned to EVE or other MMOs with less restrictive "end game" designs like DAOC freeshards.
ESO did a good job hiding the raid or die design, it's in there but one can circumvent or avoid it quite a bit w/o feeling like your progress has come to a halt.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon