They made some really cool looking raid sets with flaming shoulders etc and unlike outdated mmorpg philosphies, they made it available to the easiest difficulty of raid which you can que for solo and not have to depend on socialization since the boss will eventually die.
0 forced socialization, you just que and kill the boss after a while and you get the reward.
Now this is what good design looks like, instead of gatekeeping rewards to make some really unhealthy people feel special, you make them accessible to all so everyone who likes them can enjoy them.
My twin grand daughters just "competed" in a recreational cheerleading competition where it was clear "competing" wasn't really the purpose, letting the children have some fun was.
While there were definitely some teams which were far better than others when it was all over every competitior was handed the exact same small little trophy, which is pretty much the same as described above.
What looks good on 8 year olds really is unbecoming of adults who should well understand the concept of competition and the drivers behind such motivation in every walk of life.
Another thing which reflects poorly on well adjusted adults? Envy.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My twin grand daughters just "competed" in a recreational cheerleading competition where it was clear "competing" wasn't really the purpose, letting the children have some fun was.
While there were definitely some teams which were far better than others when it was all over every competitior was handed the exact same small little trophy, which is pretty much the same as described above.
Ah yes back to treating video games (something literally created to be beaten and give you the illusion of challenge for the money you give them) as "competition" xD
Not only that, you are desperately begging for external validation which shows the level of unhealthiness I am talking about.
When I was playing wow at high keys and doing top overall dps without deaths or external simp buffs, I didnt require an extra reward for my performance to validate me, because unlike unhealthy people, i dont require external validation.
But hey, I knowyou follow the rule of "everyone around me says its ok, so its ok" so not surprised at all of your comments.
I have not seen a more pathetic display of a person trying so hard to show that something does not matter to them while simultaneously trying so hard to get game developers to make games allow these achievements 'they don't care' about easier and without interacting with other players.
I think you have demonstrated quite profoundly that validation is exactly what you crave and seek while simultaneously trying to deny you don't.
You spend more time trying to convince us that you do not need validation but it seems to me and I believe anyone else who has had the misfortune of reading your posts that you do care very much about these rewards.
I actually play games for fun and I don't worry about psychological traps I am falling into by enjoying any rewards I earn. Unlike you I do enjoy playing with others and generally just do the best I can. C'est la vie
I have not seen a more pathetic display of a person trying so hard to show that something does not matter to them while simultaneously trying so hard to get game developers to make games allow these achievements 'they don't care' about easier and without interacting with other players.
I think you have demonstrated quite profoundly that validation is exactly what you crave and seek while simultaneously trying to deny you don't.
You spend more time trying to convince us that you do not need validation but it seems to me and I believe anyone else who has had the misfortune of reading your posts that you do care very much about these rewards.
I actually play games for fun and I don't worry about psychological traps I am falling into by enjoying any rewards I earn. Unlike you I do enjoy playing with others and generally just do the best I can. C'est la vie
I honestly cannot decide if your way of thinking comes from the unironic "Muh l33t special rewards are my external validation" so you are unable to comprehend that people like/want stuff because they look cool since for you all rewards=external validation, or you are so hurt by accessibility that your only argument is to pretend all rewards in game exist as a form of external validation and not like you know, because it looks cool and people want it therefore people dedicate some time to get it.
See the difference in words here, I said time, not "muh l33t skill that deserves special reward better than everyone else" because time is something everyone has and can decide to spend it where they want, people dont pretend to be special cause they decided to spend time in something you didnt.
Because this obsession with challenge and skill mainly exists because many mmo players are not very healthy or happy in their real life hence why start obsessing over video game achievements as if it is something serious.
My twin grand daughters just "competed" in a recreational cheerleading competition where it was clear "competing" wasn't really the purpose, letting the children have some fun was.
While there were definitely some teams which were far better than others when it was all over every competitior was handed the exact same small little trophy, which is pretty much the same as described above.
Ah yes back to treating video games (something literally created to be beaten and give you the illusion of challenge for the money you give them) as "competition" xD
Not only that, you are desperately begging for external validation which shows the level of unhealthiness I am talking about.
When I was playing wow at high keys and doing top overall dps without deaths or external simp buffs, I didnt require an extra reward for my performance to validate me, because unlike unhealthy people, i dont require external validation.
But hey, I knowyou follow the rule of "everyone around me says its ok, so its ok" so not surprised at all of your comments.
It's ok for a person or group to receive a token of acknowledgment for their achievements.
And while I'm not a big believer in some of the achievements that, say, Steam throws at you, if someone does something that is considered notable, then recognition is fine.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Because this obsession with challenge and skill mainly exists because many mmo players are not very healthy or happy in their real life hence why start obsessing over video game achievements as if it is something serious.
Because this obsession with challenge and skill mainly exists because many mmo players are not very healthy or happy in their real life hence why start obsessing over video game achievements as if it is something serious.
I still wonder where this myth came from.
It is a notion that fills certain individuals with comfort, security, superiority and conviction that they are better than other gamers. By dismissing the achievements and fun other players have as a problem and illness, they stand head and shoulders above you. Any incivility in game is excused for this reason. Isn't it grand?
Because this obsession with challenge and skill mainly exists because many mmo players are not very healthy or happy in their real life hence why start obsessing over video game achievements as if it is something serious.
I still wonder where this myth came from.
It is a notion that fills certain individuals with comfort, security, superiority and conviction that they are better than other gamers. By dismissing the achievements and fun other players have as a problem and illness, they stand head and shoulders above you. Any incivility in game is excused for this reason. Isn't it grand?
Couldn't have nailed it any better if you had used a cross.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They made some really cool looking raid sets with flaming shoulders etc and unlike outdated mmorpg philosphies, they made it available to the easiest difficulty of raid which you can que for solo and not have to depend on socialization since the boss will eventually die.
0 forced socialization, you just que and kill the boss after a while and you get the reward.
Now this is what good design looks like, instead of gatekeeping rewards to make some really unhealthy people feel special, you make them accessible to all so everyone who likes them can enjoy them.
They made some really cool looking raid sets with flaming shoulders etc and unlike outdated mmorpg philosphies, they made it available to the easiest difficulty of raid which you can que for solo and not have to depend on socialization since the boss will eventually die.
0 forced socialization, you just que and kill the boss after a while and you get the reward.
Now this is what good design looks like, instead of gatekeeping rewards to make some really unhealthy people feel special, you make them accessible to all so everyone who likes them can enjoy them.
In other words, everyone gets a trophy.......
Quit trying to validate your personal lack of self esteem by pointing out that only losers with no lives try to achieve or be proud of in game accomplishments.
I mean, anyone can be world first in gaming activities, no reason to be impressed at all.
Those folks btw, who actually don't get any in game rewards for being world first I might add, bunch o' losers right?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They made some really cool looking raid sets with flaming shoulders etc and unlike outdated mmorpg philosphies, they made it available to the easiest difficulty of raid which you can que for solo and not have to depend on socialization since the boss will eventually die.
0 forced socialization, you just que and kill the boss after a while and you get the reward.
Now this is what good design looks like, instead of gatekeeping rewards to make some really unhealthy people feel special, you make them accessible to all so everyone who likes them can enjoy them.
In other words, everyone gets a trophy.......
Yep, everyone gets a trophy so nobody earns one.
With that philosophy applied to MMORPGs they should just hand out raid gear as login rewards. If they need not be earned why bother with making raids to begin with.
Because this obsession with challenge and skill mainly exists because many mmo players are not very healthy or happy in their real life hence why start obsessing over video game achievements as if it is something serious.
I still wonder where this myth came from.
Reality but people with self esteem issues who depend on video games for their self worth obviously would never acknowledge that
With that philosophy applied to MMORPGs they should just hand out raid gear as login rewards. If they need not be earned why bother with making raids to begin with.
I mean, if people only do raids because the best rewards are locked behind them it sounds to me raiding isnt fun and just a chore to get the gear you want based on your description.
And I will repeat, if you are a decent player, you dont need external validation, if anything you want everyone on an equal power level, but healthy people also dont use words like the below in a video game unironically:
Because this obsession with challenge and skill mainly exists because many mmo players are not very healthy or happy in their real life hence why start obsessing over video game achievements as if it is something serious.
I still wonder where this myth came from.
Reality but people with self esteem issues who depend on video games for their self worth obviously would never acknowledge that
You're just using dehumanizing argument there. That's not based in reality nor rationality.
I just play whatever I like; I dont really care how popular it is as long as I myself like it.
Thats why WoW doesnt matter much to me.
I never liked WoW. Too many issues. Absolutely butt ugly graphics. RvR. Cant cast spells unless standing still. Instancing galore, to the point that you can even switch servers temporarily. Too few classes, important ones like Bard are missing. Classes are too spread out, some, like Druid, can even pick any group role. Important game elements like housing missing.
I think the two worst things are the ugly graphics and the instancing. Instancing destroys the illusion to be actually in a persistant world.
About things done right, thats a really short list for me: Vanguard. No, it wasnt perfect either, but it certainly was good enough. Still would play it if it still was running, still cant see any MMORPG that could replace it. Pantheon is much more EQ than VG plus heaven knows if Pantheon will release (though it doesnt look TOO bad right now, they just got a bit more funding).
The primary thing Vanguard did right is simple: longterm motivation. There simply was so much to do. Ginormous game world. Complex combat system, and challenging enough opponents at most levels (no it wasnt always perfect). Crafting. Diplomacy. Housing. Mounts, flying mounts, ships. I played it for the seven years it ran, had two different mains, and was about to finish my six crafters, but I still didnt have a maxlevel diplomant, just started to work on that, and didnt have the best flying mount, and only had two characters at max adv level (though thats because I focused so much on crafting).
To me longterm motivation is THE thing you want to get right in a MMORPG. Unfortunately it seems this idea seems to be just not popular. People want to move from game to game instead.
With that philosophy applied to MMORPGs they should just hand out raid gear as login rewards. If they need not be earned why bother with making raids to begin with.
I mean, if people only do raids because the best rewards are locked behind them it sounds to me raiding isnt fun and just a chore to get the gear you want based on your description.
Nothing I said suggested what you claim. Don't put your words in my mouth.
Some find raiding fun. Some find earning raid gear fun. Some find both fun. Those that find neither fun shouldn't raid.
I just play whatever I like; I dont really care how popular it is as long as I myself like it.
Thats why WoW doesnt matter much to me.
I never liked WoW. Too many issues. Absolutely butt ugly graphics. RvR. Cant cast spells unless standing still. Instancing galore, to the point that you can even switch servers temporarily. Too few classes, important ones like Bard are missing. Classes are too spread out, some, like Druid, can even pick any group role. Important game elements like housing missing.
I think the two worst things are the ugly graphics and the instancing. Instancing destroys the illusion to be actually in a persistant world.
About things done right, thats a really short list for me: Vanguard. No, it wasnt perfect either, but it certainly was good enough. Still would play it if it still was running, still cant see any MMORPG that could replace it. Pantheon is much more EQ than VG plus heaven knows if Pantheon will release (though it doesnt look TOO bad right now, they just got a bit more funding).
The primary thing Vanguard did right is simple: longterm motivation. There simply was so much to do. Ginormous game world. Complex combat system, and challenging enough opponents at most levels (no it wasnt always perfect). Crafting. Diplomacy. Housing. Mounts, flying mounts, ships. I played it for the seven years it ran, had two different mains, and was about to finish my six crafters, but I still didnt have a maxlevel diplomant, just started to work on that, and didnt have the best flying mount, and only had two characters at max adv level (though thats because I focused so much on crafting).
To me longterm motivation is THE thing you want to get right in a MMORPG. Unfortunately it seems this idea seems to be just not popular. People want to move from game to game instead.
I think most of them are moving from game to game looking for new content.
I have not seen a more pathetic display of a person trying so hard to show that something does not matter to them while simultaneously trying so hard to get game developers to make games allow these achievements 'they don't care' about easier and without interacting with other players.
I think you have demonstrated quite profoundly that validation is exactly what you crave and seek while simultaneously trying to deny you don't.
You spend more time trying to convince us that you do not need validation but it seems to me and I believe anyone else who has had the misfortune of reading your posts that you do care very much about these rewards.
I actually play games for fun and I don't worry about psychological traps I am falling into by enjoying any rewards I earn. Unlike you I do enjoy playing with others and generally just do the best I can. C'est la vie
And it came from someone cowardly enough to report my post as soon as I lampooned their multiple pages of condescension on another thread where they started this inane crusade.
Talking about adding nothing of value to the community, am I right? Inb4report.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think you have demonstrated quite profoundly that validation is exactly what you crave and seek while simultaneously trying to deny you don't.
You spend more time trying to convince us that you do not need validation but it seems to me and I believe anyone else who has had the misfortune of reading your posts that you do care very much about these rewards.
I actually play games for fun and I don't worry about psychological traps I am falling into by enjoying any rewards I earn. Unlike you I do enjoy playing with others and generally just do the best I can. C'est la vie
It's ok for a person or group to receive a token of acknowledgment for their achievements.
And while I'm not a big believer in some of the achievements that, say, Steam throws at you, if someone does something that is considered notable, then recognition is fine.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In other words, everyone gets a trophy.......
I mean, anyone can be world first in gaming activities, no reason to be impressed at all.
Those folks btw, who actually don't get any in game rewards for being world first I might add, bunch o' losers right?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yep, everyone gets a trophy so nobody earns one.
With that philosophy applied to MMORPGs they should just hand out raid gear as login rewards. If they need not be earned why bother with making raids to begin with.
Some find raiding fun. Some find earning raid gear fun. Some find both fun. Those that find neither fun shouldn't raid.
Once upon a time....
Talking about adding nothing of value to the community, am I right? Inb4report.