I am praising their commitment and passion, not their prudence and ability to invest in the right product. Ember's is unlikely to do better than SotA, but I don't see a great new MMO anywhere else for players to invest in, do you?
Who cares if there is nothing new to invest in, do you really want a defective product as the alternative?
Do we need a new plane manufacturer that makes defective planes that crash and burn from the sky just because they havent been coming out with anything innovative lately?
Yes I despartely want a new MMO to release, but it needs to be at least comparible in quality to other games on the market. I certainly dont want to go backwards in quality.
Sure they were committed to a long development and releasing something. So you expect people to just be happy about here is my $40 + $15 sub participation trophy? For a completely substandard product that has maybe 15% of the game finished with ZERO systems in a completed state?
I think some sacrifices to quality will have to be made, we do not even have an AA MMO on the horizon that I know of. Ember's has sacrificed too much for me, but it may turn itself around; bearing in mind that it likely won't. Others may think SC will be AAA, I have by doubts and it definitely is not on the horizon.
I don't expect anyone to be happy, just don't know where all the anger is coming from, we are where we are as they say (sort of). The situation is crap, but that is where we are.
Same here, we talk a heck of a lot about what's wrong with new MMOs, the guys playing Ember's are at least doing something about it, they get applause for that. I am currently checking with old guild members to see where I might go, that seems the best bet for me so far.
What are they doing that deserves applause, other than to contribute tothe mass amount of trashy games out there? This genre doesnt need more bad games. What it needs is some good games that people can sink money into, rather than spread the money around to a bunch of trashy products.
Do you feel the same way about home builders that build homes on unsupported sand? Or what about car mechanics that cause more problems in your vehicle than they fix. I remember living in Southern California, and hearing stories of people getting their car seats reappolstered in Tijuana Mexico where they used horse manure for stuffing inside. Yeah I am sure the world needs more of these enterprising businesses.
How about we get people who actually make a decent MMO for a change? People that have good ideas and standards. Praising people for putting out a cash grab is weird to me.
The game has lost 85% of its playerbase in 30 days, it will lose over 95% in a few months, and thats of a small group to begin with. Why is this good for the MMO genre?
I am praising their commitment and passion, not their prudence and ability to invest in the right product. Ember's is unlikely to do better than SotA, but I don't see a great new MMO anywhere else for players to invest in, do you?
It seems to be that 'passion' is being confused with 'greed'. When 'Players' stop trying to become 'Investors', then most of these types of problems (bad games) will disappear.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Same here, we talk a heck of a lot about what's wrong with new MMOs, the guys playing Ember's are at least doing something about it, they get applause for that. I am currently checking with old guild members to see where I might go, that seems the best bet for me so far.
What are they doing that deserves applause, other than to contribute tothe mass amount of trashy games out there? This genre doesnt need more bad games. What it needs is some good games that people can sink money into, rather than spread the money around to a bunch of trashy products.
Do you feel the same way about home builders that build homes on unsupported sand? Or what about car mechanics that cause more problems in your vehicle than they fix. I remember living in Southern California, and hearing stories of people getting their car seats reappolstered in Tijuana Mexico where they used horse manure for stuffing inside. Yeah I am sure the world needs more of these enterprising businesses.
How about we get people who actually make a decent MMO for a change? People that have good ideas and standards. Praising people for putting out a cash grab is weird to me.
The game has lost 85% of its playerbase in 30 days, it will lose over 95% in a few months, and thats of a small group to begin with. Why is this good for the MMO genre?
I am praising their commitment and passion, not their prudence and ability to invest in the right product. Ember's is unlikely to do better than SotA, but I don't see a great new MMO anywhere else for players to invest in, do you?
It seems to be that 'passion' is being confused with 'greed'. When 'Players' stop trying to become 'Investors', then most of these types of problems (bad games) will disappear.
In the case of Embers there is very little confusion though, they have always been pretty transparent about all of it. That is also the exact reason quite a few people are giving them a bit more slack. A hobby project made by amateurs in their spare time, nothing more and nothing less. The only confusion is that of players who saw the regular price tag and assumed more then what was promised.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
In the case of Embers there is very little confusion though, they have always been pretty transparent about all of it. That is also the exact reason quite a few people are giving them a bit more slack. A hobby project made by amateurs in their spare time, nothing more and nothing less. The only confusion is that of players who saw the regular price tag and assumed more then what was promised.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Who are you trying to fool with this. They are absolutely not marketing this game as some hobby project, thats still in some alpha design stage. https://www.embersadrift.com/Store
They are marketing this game as a fully fledged RELEASED game. In addition it shows levels 1-50 yet there is not even content to get you close to level 50 in the game yet, and who knows when or IF it will get put in. Additionally even if they added more content to level 50, it will be the most boring content in the history of MMO's. Because the way levels scale in this game, they have about 15-20% of the content in currently (which is shoddy at best), any more content added will have to last for the other 80-85% of the game time. A person will be grinding the same mob for weeks or months.
The only reason people know this is a small dev team and a extremely subpar low content game is because of reviews from people on sites like this. So if the average gamer just goes off of some streamer who is being paid to plug this game because they got to level 4 like LazyPeon, they would have no clue that the newbie zone contains most of the content systems this game has. Even Asmondgold did a review, based on LazyPeons level 4 review LOL. I guarantee those reviews would be different if those streamers got to level 25, which is only a few days of play.
You think the average person is going to know this? I have even seen dedicated people from this forum come on here and buy this game, even after reading the bad reviews and say they like the game (at level 3) only to turn around and agree it shouldnt have been released in this state by level 25.
I am still waiting for a Fanboi to come on here and tell us how they love this game after level 25 and can see themselves enjoying this game for the next 6mo, 1year IN ITS CURRENT STATE. This game has thousands of people that played it (and quit already) and we cant even find 1 person to shill this game after level 25-35? Thats pretty telling in itself.
Same here, we talk a heck of a lot about what's wrong with new MMOs, the guys playing Ember's are at least doing something about it, they get applause for that. I am currently checking with old guild members to see where I might go, that seems the best bet for me so far.
What are they doing that deserves applause, other than to contribute tothe mass amount of trashy games out there? This genre doesnt need more bad games. What it needs is some good games that people can sink money into, rather than spread the money around to a bunch of trashy products.
Do you feel the same way about home builders that build homes on unsupported sand? Or what about car mechanics that cause more problems in your vehicle than they fix. I remember living in Southern California, and hearing stories of people getting their car seats reappolstered in Tijuana Mexico where they used horse manure for stuffing inside. Yeah I am sure the world needs more of these enterprising businesses.
How about we get people who actually make a decent MMO for a change? People that have good ideas and standards. Praising people for putting out a cash grab is weird to me.
The game has lost 85% of its playerbase in 30 days, it will lose over 95% in a few months, and thats of a small group to begin with. Why is this good for the MMO genre?
I am praising their commitment and passion, not their prudence and ability to invest in the right product. Ember's is unlikely to do better than SotA, but I don't see a great new MMO anywhere else for players to invest in, do you?
It seems to be that 'passion' is being confused with 'greed'. When 'Players' stop trying to become 'Investors', then most of these types of problems (bad games) will disappear.
Well do they get anything for investing in Embers? This is not a game like CoE where you could become a King at the start is it?
Well do they get anything for investing in Embers? This is not a game like CoE where you could become a King at the start is it?
Nope other than an in-game title, I dont think there is much difference from an Alpha player or someone buying today.
But then on the other hand, there is not much stuff in game that could give them an advantage LOL. No housing, no mounts, no real armor/weaps. This game is so basic that if they had lopped off abilities or items, to give to early adopters, they would have been giving up a significant part of the already limited content they have.
But I am sure they could have found a way to do this. I will give them credit for that at least, I do like the fact that those advantages do not exist.
I am praising their commitment and passion, not their prudence and ability to invest in the right product. Ember's is unlikely to do better than SotA, but I don't see a great new MMO anywhere else for players to invest in, do you?
Who cares if there is nothing new to invest in, do you really want a defective product as the alternative?
Do we need a new plane manufacturer that makes defective planes that crash and burn from the sky just because they havent been coming out with anything innovative lately?
Yes I despartely want a new MMO to release, but it needs to be at least comparible in quality to other games on the market. I certainly dont want to go backwards in quality.
Sure they were committed to a long development and releasing something. So you expect people to just be happy about here is my $40 + $15 sub participation trophy? For a completely substandard product that has maybe 15% of the game finished with ZERO systems in a completed state?
Actually I expect most people to be like me and not purchase a game they aren't likely to enjoy.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For the AAA price and subscription this game looks slow, unpolished and bland based on the video reviews I have seen. Nothing stands out enough to pique my interest. The days when I tolerated having to group with Randoms in order to complete game content were a quarter of a century ago. The gaming community back then was a lot better then than now, and I won't waste my time grouping with Randoms now. Not a chance.
I am praising their commitment and passion, not their prudence and ability to invest in the right product. Ember's is unlikely to do better than SotA, but I don't see a great new MMO anywhere else for players to invest in, do you?
Who cares if there is nothing new to invest in, do you really want a defective product as the alternative?
Do we need a new plane manufacturer that makes defective planes that crash and burn from the sky just because they havent been coming out with anything innovative lately?
Yes I despartely want a new MMO to release, but it needs to be at least comparible in quality to other games on the market. I certainly dont want to go backwards in quality.
Sure they were committed to a long development and releasing something. So you expect people to just be happy about here is my $40 + $15 sub participation trophy? For a completely substandard product that has maybe 15% of the game finished with ZERO systems in a completed state?
Actually I expect most people to be like me and not purchase a game they aren't likely to enjoy.
I think Indies need to be able to release with at least decent quality for something fun to play as an MMORPG. It's a real challenge. Too many have only a dream and no money for even a basic entrant into the market.
And yet, some few have been diamonds in the rough, or something similar to that. Project Gorgon impresses me, but I think animations are an underappreciated part that's actually more important than the art itself, but that's probably just me. I think they stated that the plan was to get the rest of the game right first, and then seek funding for their art and animations. That just might work, but only time will tell.
Project Gorgon impresses me, but I think animations are an underappreciated part that's actually more important than the art itself, but that's probably just me. I think they stated that the plan was to get the rest of the game right first, and then seek funding for their art and animations. That just might work, but only time will tell.
Time has already told.
Project:Gorgon has been working for some time. Despite lacking aesthetics it has been well received overall by those that play it.
It is still of niche appeal but has appealed well to that niche.
Project Gorgon impresses me, but I think animations are an underappreciated part that's actually more important than the art itself, but that's probably just me. I think they stated that the plan was to get the rest of the game right first, and then seek funding for their art and animations. That just might work, but only time will tell.
Time has already told.
Project:Gorgon has been working for some time. Despite lacking aesthetics it has been well received overall by those that play it.
It is still of niche appeal but has appealed well to that niche.
I don't think the story for that game is over yet. A big question is what it would be like now if they had had the kind of funding of a AAA game. The next question is, what if they can accomplish the same by substituting production time for money?
when i saw the game itself and how many people actually talked about the game and the devs trying to make it a subscription mmo in game focused around GROUPING UP i immediately knew it wouldn't survive a long time.
i could see that result a mile away.
if they want to salvage what they got they should make the game f2p or b2p and release it on steam.
i'd rather have a cash shop than a shut down game.
when i saw the game itself and how many people actually talked about the game and the devs trying to make it a subscription mmo in game focused around GROUPING UP i immediately knew it wouldn't survive a long time.
i could see that result a mile away.
if they want to salvage what they got they should make the game f2p or b2p and release it on steam.
i'd rather have a cash shop than a shut down game.
Its not like the grouping is the big problem other than they dont have enough players to fill groups. They didnt create a game that encourages grouping other than mobs with more health, damage and players with limited stamina pool.
What systems in this game are even built around grouping? There is no real difference from grouping or solo in this game.
The only difference from a 3^ group mob vs a 1^ solo mob in this game is health, damage and xp. They could easily just change all mobs to 1^ instantly in this game and it wouldnt help at all. It would actually be worse. Its the systems that are the problem, all the systems designed are shallow, subpar and not fun.
Even if solo players got more XP, what would be the point, the content blows, especially after 20, after 35 it doesnt exist.
There are no raids, no mob mechanics that are difficult. So grouping or solo, its all going to end up being the same, BORING. I like grouping and I am not playing this game. So even group players dont like it.
All the solo players can come here and say it failed due to grouping, but in reality it failed because the game is subpar.
The game is basically in a playable alpha state. If I logged into this and they said "We're just testing some core gameplay and a few beginner areas while we working on adding game features and the majority of content" it would make sense. But this is the game. People are expected to subscribe to this.
Many many people that are squarely in the target audience for this game have tried it and left very sad. People came looking for a group based MMO experience and left. They didn't leave because it was intended for group based gameplay, that's what they were looking for!
They left because the game isn't DONE. It isn't even close to done. I guess they expect people to have a few characters in their 20s and then just continue staying subbed even though there's literally nothing to do.
If it's not on steam, then it's really missing out on a lot of potential business. I prefer steam and only go for a game not on steam unless it really interests me. I despise all these companies that come up with their own launchers.
Some companies have the clout to do it. I despise them for doing it, but sometimes, you go where there is some water to drink. A small project like this, while enormous to them, is a small project in MMO'verse.
I think it's crazy to think that they aren't looking at steam very hard right now. It doesn't mean the game is good, it's simple exposure and reach.
I wish them luck
They won't, because Steam allows refunds.
I wouldn't be so certain on people being able to get refunds.
In Embers it takes more than 2 hours to figure out the tutorial area of the zone is the best content in the game. Its not until after you get out of the newbie zone do you start to realize, there really isn't anything more to the game.
I think its the reviews they will need to be worried about if anything. But even then, most people review a game with less than 5 hours of play. Many will review positive thinking the game is only going to get better.
So I don't think releasing to Steam would be worse than their current situation. Which is a massive exodus of players.
but that is another thing we often look at in the reviews: How long did this person play? I seen tons of reviews where it says something like 'One of the best games I have ever played"...then I look at time of the review...it will be under ten hours...then I look at total hours played and very often it is not much more than when they posted the review.....I want more than a few hours of gameplay from a game.
When I check reviews on Steam I always check how many hours they have played and at which point they wrote the review since that information is readily available on the review itself. I think the way steam show the reviews is a very productive way to gauge for yourself whether a game is something you will enjoy playing because many of the reviews write down exactly why a game is bad or good in their opinion. I do not even bother reading the one liners . I like long reviews that make a list of the pros and cons and explain why a certain con or pro is good or bad.
When I check reviews on Steam I always check how many hours they have played and at which point they wrote the review since that information is readily available on the review itself. I think the way steam show the reviews is a very productive way to gauge for yourself whether a game is something you will enjoy playing because many of the reviews write down exactly why a game is bad or good in their opinion. I do not even bother reading the one liners . I like long reviews that make a list of the pros and cons and explain why a certain con or pro is good or bad.
The negative reviews are more important then the positive ones, they can reveal a reason you won't want to play, like a poor port. We already know why we want to play the game, the pros just tend to reinforce that.
When I check reviews on Steam I always check how many hours they have played and at which point they wrote the review since that information is readily available on the review itself. I think the way steam show the reviews is a very productive way to gauge for yourself whether a game is something you will enjoy playing because many of the reviews write down exactly why a game is bad or good in their opinion. I do not even bother reading the one liners . I like long reviews that make a list of the pros and cons and explain why a certain con or pro is good or bad.
Longer, detailed reviews tend to be better, both positive and negative. So, I usually give more credence to longer reviews.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
When I check reviews on Steam I always check how many hours they have played and at which point they wrote the review since that information is readily available on the review itself. I think the way steam show the reviews is a very productive way to gauge for yourself whether a game is something you will enjoy playing because many of the reviews write down exactly why a game is bad or good in their opinion. I do not even bother reading the one liners . I like long reviews that make a list of the pros and cons and explain why a certain con or pro is good or bad.
Longer, detailed reviews tend to be better, both positive and negative. So, I usually give more credence to longer reviews.
Yes! Tell my WHY you think x, y, z.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
After playing it at launch, I can, without a doubt, claim it has absolutely no chance of surviving. The game is beyond boring to play, and fundamentally flawed in it's core design.
What got me to get the game was the supposedly HARD combat that required teamwork to play everywhere. What we got was just overleveled damage sponge enemies and combat that moves so slowly that you'd think every character was dying of end stage arthritis.
And mind you I "ENJOY" slower paced combat, and force group play. But this took it to a comically bad degree. And the horrible graphics, boring world design, and the grindfest of all grindfest crafting systems sure as hell didn't help. Add a subscription fee onto it and I canceled my sub and uninstalled around the day 4 mark.
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
I just got a free weekend invite. It's sad because I've been following this game for years before it changed names. It is a true mmorpg. But sadly, it doesn't have enough content within the world to be fun.
Comments
I don't expect anyone to be happy, just don't know where all the anger is coming from, we are where we are as they say (sort of). The situation is crap, but that is where we are.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Who are you trying to fool with this. They are absolutely not marketing this game as some hobby project, thats still in some alpha design stage. https://www.embersadrift.com/Store
They are marketing this game as a fully fledged RELEASED game. In addition it shows levels 1-50 yet there is not even content to get you close to level 50 in the game yet, and who knows when or IF it will get put in. Additionally even if they added more content to level 50, it will be the most boring content in the history of MMO's. Because the way levels scale in this game, they have about 15-20% of the content in currently (which is shoddy at best), any more content added will have to last for the other 80-85% of the game time. A person will be grinding the same mob for weeks or months.
The only reason people know this is a small dev team and a extremely subpar low content game is because of reviews from people on sites like this. So if the average gamer just goes off of some streamer who is being paid to plug this game because they got to level 4 like LazyPeon, they would have no clue that the newbie zone contains most of the content systems this game has. Even Asmondgold did a review, based on LazyPeons level 4 review LOL. I guarantee those reviews would be different if those streamers got to level 25, which is only a few days of play.
You think the average person is going to know this? I have even seen dedicated people from this forum come on here and buy this game, even after reading the bad reviews and say they like the game (at level 3) only to turn around and agree it shouldnt have been released in this state by level 25.
I am still waiting for a Fanboi to come on here and tell us how they love this game after level 25 and can see themselves enjoying this game for the next 6mo, 1year IN ITS CURRENT STATE. This game has thousands of people that played it (and quit already) and we cant even find 1 person to shill this game after level 25-35? Thats pretty telling in itself.
But then on the other hand, there is not much stuff in game that could give them an advantage LOL. No housing, no mounts, no real armor/weaps. This game is so basic that if they had lopped off abilities or items, to give to early adopters, they would have been giving up a significant part of the already limited content they have.
But I am sure they could have found a way to do this. I will give them credit for that at least, I do like the fact that those advantages do not exist.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's a real challenge.
Too many have only a dream and no money for even a basic entrant into the market.
And yet, some few have been diamonds in the rough, or something similar to that.
Project Gorgon impresses me, but I think animations are an underappreciated part that's actually more important than the art itself, but that's probably just me. I think they stated that the plan was to get the rest of the game right first, and then seek funding for their art and animations.
That just might work, but only time will tell.
Once upon a time....
Time has already told.
Project:Gorgon has been working for some time. Despite lacking aesthetics it has been well received overall by those that play it.
It is still of niche appeal but has appealed well to that niche.
A big question is what it would be like now if they had had the kind of funding of a AAA game.
The next question is, what if they can accomplish the same by substituting production time for money?
Once upon a time....
i could see that result a mile away.
if they want to salvage what they got they should make the game f2p or b2p and release it on steam.
i'd rather have a cash shop than a shut down game.
What systems in this game are even built around grouping? There is no real difference from grouping or solo in this game.
The only difference from a 3^ group mob vs a 1^ solo mob in this game is health, damage and xp. They could easily just change all mobs to 1^ instantly in this game and it wouldnt help at all. It would actually be worse. Its the systems that are the problem, all the systems designed are shallow, subpar and not fun.
Even if solo players got more XP, what would be the point, the content blows, especially after 20, after 35 it doesnt exist.
There are no raids, no mob mechanics that are difficult. So grouping or solo, its all going to end up being the same, BORING. I like grouping and I am not playing this game. So even group players dont like it.
All the solo players can come here and say it failed due to grouping, but in reality it failed because the game is subpar.
Many many people that are squarely in the target audience for this game have tried it and left very sad. People came looking for a group based MMO experience and left. They didn't leave because it was intended for group based gameplay, that's what they were looking for!
They left because the game isn't DONE. It isn't even close to done. I guess they expect people to have a few characters in their 20s and then just continue staying subbed even though there's literally nothing to do.
but that is another thing we often look at in the reviews: How long did this person play? I seen tons of reviews where it says something like 'One of the best games I have ever played"...then I look at time of the review...it will be under ten hours...then I look at total hours played and very often it is not much more than when they posted the review.....I want more than a few hours of gameplay from a game.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Yes! Tell my WHY you think x, y, z.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018