I don't see why people can't just look at the features and make that determination. "It's an mmorpg."
great ... you look, oh wait it only supports 35 people per world, not my thing, move on.
great ... you look, supports hundreds of people in one world. My thing.
Too much reading....
I am seriously waiting for players to say "there was too much voice acting" in a game with great voice acting. It does not matter how good it is, why am I waiting to play?
SWTOR...way too much voice acting for my tastes, I loath being "read to"
Time to get busy with my killing....
Murder hobos don't play MMORPGS for their stories...
Don't do every single quest, you're gonna burn yourself out. If doing just the main story, with some extras here and there, how can SWTOR have too much VA? I love fully voiced, different Protags, for one.
I doubt he is playing SWTOR atm, it is actually one I have considered going back to though as the questing is so good.
So how would you know from a list of games on a online store, which games fit which genre without buying and downloading and playing every game on the store?
Unfortunately, because the WORD IS SLANDERED, You cant other than making up your own mind from reading or Youtube.
* WARNING: Don't ask on this site. People here don't seem to have a clue for some odd reasion*
Also, you had been here for a very long time, know all the games. I'm surprised your asking ?
Yeah I hate voice acting and cutscenes. Its the main reason I cant get into FFXIV. I like playing a game and not watching a game.
Agreed with this. Cut scenes are nice for flavor. But when they go on to long I lose interest .
I would actually rather read a quest log..
As much as I enjoyed parts of Dragonage there is one area we're you just run back and forth between npcs with dialougue for 11 minutes, that was the last time I played and unistalled.
One of the biggest problems in music, movies, gaming, etc is we feel we need to put a label on everything.....Someone earlier mentioned Steam and how it uses labels to help people find games they might be interested in, but in my experience those labels are so vague and far fetched that most of them are no help at all.
mmorpg - your online with other people rpg - your alone in your own instance.
scratches head....what is confusing you?
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
One of the biggest problems in music, movies, gaming, etc is we feel we need to put a label on everything.....Someone earlier mentioned Steam and how it uses labels to help people find games they might be interested in, but in my experience those labels are so vague and far fetched that most of them are no help at all.
For me, when someone says "Classical Music" I understand that they mean a very large range of music from Gregorian Chant, through the Renaissance and all the way to what passes as "classical music" today.
However, I know it as a period after the Baroque that has a less heavy/dense texture than Baroque and clearer melody with Mozart being a sort of poster child for the period.
Of course, I have no need to point that out to someone unless they ask.
I just use context. Just like MMORPG's. Too many people are caught up in having definitions "exactly" as they need them.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
mmorpg - your online with other people rpg - your alone in your own instance.
scratches head....what is confusing you?
MO/co-op -- multi-player online. Usually up to 64 or maybe 100 players at a time.
MMO -- Massive multi-player online. What does "massive" mean? A lot more than 64 or 100. I'd say that first M is the Roman numeral M, or 1,000. 1,000 players at the same place at the same time.
Not very many games can actually do that. Most are lobby games where thousands get to team up in smaller instances.
How many games do you know that can have 250 players at the same time and place all playing together?
mmorpg - your online with other people rpg - your alone in your own instance.
scratches head....what is confusing you?
MO/co-op -- multi-player online. Usually up to 64 or maybe 100 players at a time.
MMO -- Massive multi-player online. What does "massive" mean? A lot more than 64 or 100. I'd say that first M is the Roman numeral M, or 1,000. 1,000 players at the same place at the same time.
Not very many games can actually do that. Most are lobby games where thousands get to team up in smaller instances.
How many games do you know that can have 250 players at the same time and place all playing together?
When you're playing though how many people will you be grouping with? 5-6 people. You do have the possibility of grouping with a lot of people in the 1000 but you won't actually ever play with all the of those one thousand people. So you can safely have about 250 people on a server and have a possibility of having a multiplayer online experience. Aside from stealing the opportunity for resources and terrible lag I don't see any real need for a 1000 players in a PvE game.
Perhaps in a PvP game with seiges and such 1000 makes more sense but again lag kills any game for me so I honestly prefer less lag and less folk running about grabbling every node and mob. As definitions go there is less benefit here with the current technology. I haven't really come across any game that does not employ some tricks like multiple instances of an area that can give me a lag free experience. Again YMMV.
mmorpg - your online with other people rpg - your alone in your own instance.
scratches head....what is confusing you?
MO/co-op -- multi-player online. Usually up to 64 or maybe 100 players at a time.
MMO -- Massive multi-player online. What does "massive" mean? A lot more than 64 or 100. I'd say that first M is the Roman numeral M, or 1,000. 1,000 players at the same place at the same time.
Not very many games can actually do that. Most are lobby games where thousands get to team up in smaller instances.
How many games do you know that can have 250 players at the same time and place all playing together?
When you're playing though how many people will you be grouping with? 5-6 people. You do have the possibility of grouping with a lot of people in the 1000 but you won't actually ever play with all the of those one thousand people. So you can safely have about 250 people on a server and have a possibility of having a multiplayer online experience. Aside from stealing the opportunity for resources and terrible lag I don't see any real need for a 1000 players in a PvE game.
Perhaps in a PvP game with seiges and such 1000 makes more sense but again lag kills any game for me so I honestly prefer less lag and less folk running about grabbling every node and mob. As definitions go there is less benefit here with the current technology. I haven't really come across any game that does not employ some tricks like multiple instances of an area that can give me a lag free experience. Again YMMV.
I've thought the exact same thing. However, I believe there is a caveat to that.
When you have 1000+ people on a server you might only meet a fraction of those people and of that fraction you will be grouping with usually a dedicated subset. So your friends list as well as a few new people here and there.
the thing is, with 1000+ people there's more of a chance to get a group if most of your friends list isn't online or you find yourself in an area where you need a group and there are people there looking for a group.
But 250 people means that if a good amount of people you know aren't online, the chance of you meeting "many more" is much less.
100 people quit from a 1000+ server then it's not going to really ruin the experience. If 100 people quite a 250 person server that's going to leave more of a hole.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I just have awful memories of very bad lag in a lot of games including WoW. Do you recall how bad Anarchy Online was when a lot of players were on, I mean aside from the rubber banding and horrible delay, at times you could not move at all. I know that game was quite bad but so many games release with the promise of capacity far exceeding their real ability and then we have this lag monster with every step.
I'd just rather have games with smaller capacities instead of trying to reach a number they simply don't have the ability to run the game well.
Of course we can discuss numbers but we have to face reality and what that number of people do in a game. Scarcity of resources bug the hell out of me.
I do agree that 100 people leaving a game of 250 would have a far more devastating impact than in 1000. I suppose theoretically the advancements in hardware and cloud gaming can make for an increase in numbers minus the lag. Well we can hope.
mmorpg - your online with other people rpg - your alone in your own instance.
scratches head....what is confusing you?
so using your definition, Darksoul is a MMO right?
Technically Darksoul is an FPS. Any pvp game on a console is actually an FPS with pvp. The lobbies are not putting 250+ people in any server. You're running 8mans at best on a localized LAN. An MMO is technically only played on a PC because it handles large scale pvp. For example, 150+ people on each side on a WAN server.
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
mmorpg - your online with other people rpg - your alone in your own instance.
scratches head....what is confusing you?
so using your definition, Darksoul is a MMO right?
Technically Darksoul is an FPS. Any pvp game on a console is actually an FPS with pvp. The lobbies are not putting 250+ people in any server. You're running 8mans at best on a localized LAN. An MMO is technically only played on a PC because it handles large scale pvp. For example, 150+ people on each side on a WAN server.
I guess you are not aware but FFXI in 2002 launched on consoles PS2 and PCs and FFXIV and ESO are all playable on the console and they are MMORPGs. Everquest Adventures Online was playable on consoles in 2003 on the PS2.
Kitara stated: "I guess you are not aware but FFXI in 2002 launched on consoles PS2 and PCs and FFXIV and ESO are all playable on the console and they are MMORPGs. Everquest Adventures Online was playable on consoles in 2003 on the PS2."
Is it open world pvp? Or do they break down your opponent pool into only LAN based competitors? How are the pvp servers structured? I'm not familiar with these games. Again MMO is a WAN. On the console, is it a WAN or LAN?
This user is a registered flex offender. Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say. Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark. Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
These servers hold thousands of players. We're talking about Final Fantasy 11 and 14 and Elder Scrolls Online. The game company have their own servers that can hold thousands of players at the same time and consoles can connect to them. ESO has PvP in Cyrodiil.
These are not games you host on your machine but the game company has their own large servers. I am not sure where you got the impression that consoles cannot connect to these servers.
There are also world bosses where a lot of players gather to fight. Console players raid and fight world bosses just fine on their consoles on these games.
This is Elder Scrolls Online on PS5
This FFXIV you can see some world boss fights called fates in there. Final Fantasy 14 made it possible to have a cross bar so you can map like 32 skills on the controller.
Seems pretty straightforward, MMO's tend to be 250 - 3000+ players that are able to interract with each other in the game, Eve Online at one time had over 60,000 players but is pretty much the exception, these days they struggle to even get 30,000 players. Then there are Multiplayer games like Fortnite etc. that have 100 players or so, usually a lot less. There is a lot of obfuscation about what constitutes simultaneous players in a game, usually because the games in question do not meet the minimum standards without engaging in mental gymnastics. Games that actually are MMO's are kind of obvious, as are ones that are not.
Are there any modern day roguelikes like rogue? Nope. Just like there is no need for massive amounts of people in modern day MMORPGs. For me the definition is if you see other players online around you it's an MMORPG. For others it could mean solitaire is an MMORPG because alot of people play it online.
Yes, there are modern day roguelikes akin to Rogue.
The capacity for a massive number of concurrent players is a defining characteristic of MMORPGs. Solitaire has one concurrent player, by definition. It is not a MMORPG.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if a game that played itself was called a MMO.
In fact I googled "MMO that plays itself" and it's already a thing.
That's not even taking into account bot programs that play the game for you.
Currently a lot of games will ban bot programs but I bet it will be just like when they used to ban people for selling gold and items and just add bot programs to the microtransaction shop.
Solitaire might not be a MMO but it's more of an actual game than some of these!
It wouldn't surprise me either if a game that played itself was called a MMO. However, if the game plays itself entirely it in fact has no players but instead observers at most.
I don't see why people can't just look at the features and make that determination. "It's an mmorpg."
great ... you look, oh wait it only supports 35 people per world, not my thing, move on.
great ... you look, supports hundreds of people in one world. My thing.
There are various eyes. Even the Sphinx has eyes: and as a result there are various truths, and as a result there is no truth. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
People can, and do. They just see things differently from each other so the features that define them varies between persons.
Saying the world is flat does not make it flat no matter how many morons say it is.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't see why people can't just look at the features and make that determination. "It's an mmorpg."
great ... you look, oh wait it only supports 35 people per world, not my thing, move on.
great ... you look, supports hundreds of people in one world. My thing.
There are various eyes. Even the Sphinx has eyes: and as a result there are various truths, and as a result there is no truth. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
People can, and do. They just see things differently from each other so the features that define them varies between persons.
Saying the world is flat does not make it flat no matter how many morons say it is.
It effectively does with no hard evidence to the contrary, for in the absence of such there is no reason to believe perception doesn't equate to reality. There are many things once believed to be so before evidence otherwise was found. Some beliefs still remain because they are beyond proof to the contrary.
MMORPGs have no evidence as to their nature to discover so as to define them for they have no nature at all. They do not exist beyond what they are perceived to be and the perception of what they are varies between persons. They have no truth other than what each of us contrives for them.
I don't see why people can't just look at the features and make that determination. "It's an mmorpg."
great ... you look, oh wait it only supports 35 people per world, not my thing, move on.
great ... you look, supports hundreds of people in one world. My thing.
There are various eyes. Even the Sphinx has eyes: and as a result there are various truths, and as a result there is no truth. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
People can, and do. They just see things differently from each other so the features that define them varies between persons.
Saying the world is flat does not make it flat no matter how many morons say it is.
It effectively does with no hard evidence to the contrary, for in the absence of such there is no reason to believe perception doesn't equate to reality. There are many things once believed to be so before evidence otherwise was found. Some beliefs still remain because they are beyond proof to the contrary.
MMORPGs have no evidence as to their nature to discover so as to define them for they have no nature at all. They do not exist beyond what they are perceived to be and the perception of what they are varies between persons. They have no truth other than what each of us contrives for them.
Next, you'll be telling us that a suppository is something that you eat according to your contrivance.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't see why people can't just look at the features and make that determination. "It's an mmorpg."
great ... you look, oh wait it only supports 35 people per world, not my thing, move on.
great ... you look, supports hundreds of people in one world. My thing.
There are various eyes. Even the Sphinx has eyes: and as a result there are various truths, and as a result there is no truth. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
People can, and do. They just see things differently from each other so the features that define them varies between persons.
Saying the world is flat does not make it flat no matter how many morons say it is.
It effectively does with no hard evidence to the contrary, for in the absence of such there is no reason to believe perception doesn't equate to reality. There are many things once believed to be so before evidence otherwise was found. Some beliefs still remain because they are beyond proof to the contrary.
MMORPGs have no evidence as to their nature to discover so as to define them for they have no nature at all. They do not exist beyond what they are perceived to be and the perception of what they are varies between persons. They have no truth other than what each of us contrives for them.
Next, you'll be telling us that a suppository is something that you eat according to your contrivance.
You can eat a suppository with no contrivance required, but the outcome won't be ideal no matter how you chew it.
Comments
That's why definitions are important.
This is kinda what I mean when I say we need a better way to distinguish MMOs from non MMOs.
This person was more honest compared to others, but still the fact that many of these non MMOs are on the list, is very telling.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I would actually rather read a quest log..
As much as I enjoyed parts of Dragonage there is one area we're you just run back and forth between npcs with dialougue for 11 minutes, that was the last time I played and unistalled.
mmorpg - your online with other people
rpg - your alone in your own instance.
scratches head....what is confusing you?
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
Perhaps in a PvP game with seiges and such 1000 makes more sense but again lag kills any game for me so I honestly prefer less lag and less folk running about grabbling every node and mob. As definitions go there is less benefit here with the current technology. I haven't really come across any game that does not employ some tricks like multiple instances of an area that can give me a lag free experience. Again YMMV.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'd just rather have games with smaller capacities instead of trying to reach a number they simply don't have the ability to run the game well.
Of course we can discuss numbers but we have to face reality and what that number of people do in a game. Scarcity of resources bug the hell out of me.
I do agree that 100 people leaving a game of 250 would have a far more devastating impact than in 1000. I suppose theoretically the advancements in hardware and cloud gaming can make for an increase in numbers minus the lag. Well we can hope.
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
"I guess you are not aware but FFXI in 2002 launched on consoles PS2 and PCs and FFXIV and ESO are all playable on the console and they are MMORPGs. Everquest Adventures Online was playable on consoles in 2003 on the PS2."
Is it open world pvp? Or do they break down your opponent pool into only LAN based competitors? How are the pvp servers structured? I'm not familiar with these games.
Again MMO is a WAN. On the console, is it a WAN or LAN?
Someone who is registered as being a flex offender is a person who feels the need to flex about everything they say.
Always be the guy that paints the house in the dark.
Lucidity can be forged with enough liquidity and pharmed for decades with enough compound interest that a reachable profit would never end.
These are not games you host on your machine but the game company has their own large servers. I am not sure where you got the impression that consoles cannot connect to these servers.
There are also world bosses where a lot of players gather to fight. Console players raid and fight world bosses just fine on their consoles on these games.
This is Elder Scrolls Online on PS5
This FFXIV you can see some world boss fights called fates in there. Final Fantasy 14 made it possible to have a cross bar so you can map like 32 skills on the controller.
It wouldn't surprise me either if a game that played itself was called a MMO. However, if the game plays itself entirely it in fact has no players but instead observers at most.
People can, and do. They just see things differently from each other so the features that define them varies between persons.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It effectively does with no hard evidence to the contrary, for in the absence of such there is no reason to believe perception doesn't equate to reality. There are many things once believed to be so before evidence otherwise was found. Some beliefs still remain because they are beyond proof to the contrary.
MMORPGs have no evidence as to their nature to discover so as to define them for they have no nature at all. They do not exist beyond what they are perceived to be and the perception of what they are varies between persons. They have no truth other than what each of us contrives for them.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You can eat a suppository with no contrivance required, but the outcome won't be ideal no matter how you chew it.