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To the Naysayers
Jadal
Member Posts: 134
A lot of the complaints seem to be about a lack of content or it is just unfinished. Unfortunately, there is nothing to measure your opinion against. So for the record, What MMOs, in your opinion, were finished products when they were released and worthy of going retail?? Also, please tell us what game you think is comparable to DnL that is coming out in the foreseeable future.
That would really help the rest of us get a feeling as to where you are coming from.
Thanks
Comments
I have to get ready for work and I have already explained this in dozens of other threads so I will just put it like this.
Look at Asherons Call 2, Shadowbane, Horizons, Saga of Ryzom, and The Matrix Online and ask yourself where did these companies go wrong. A lot of them had some very unique features and tons of potential yet they are all either still struggling for subscribers, or on their deathbed.
Then look at games like City of Heros , WoW, DAoC, EQII and ask yourself what was different about their release. There you will find your answer as to where I am coming from at least. For all of my naysaying, I have never said anything bad about the game itself, just this idiotic plan to release it in the hopes that people will pay for what is essentialy a product still in beta.
I miss DAoC
There will be a period between release online and release on shelves (I've heard as much as 6 months) During this time, dedicated fans will build the economy of the world. -This is what I call a unique opportunity.
If you don't have the pioneering spirit, you should wait until shelf release, but if you want to be there from the start and shape the future of Ganareth, you'll be there at online release.
Nemo sine vitio est
Didnt really answer my questions?
For me:
Asherons Call 2: I bought this, played it probably 3hrs and cant remember what turned me off about it. Heard AC1 was good but never played.
Shadowbane: Really liked this one. Had my own little village. Certainly a lack of content. Little buggy but still playable. Finally quit when I realized the cost of maintaining my town was too high and everyone was going the way of the zerg.
City of Heroes: Not that fun.
DaoC: Pretty good. Grind finally got me.
EQII: Content=endless grind, no thanks. Their numbers are not stellar
WoW: Great until 60, then a complete change in the game from fun to endless grind. Very successful but you could have shit in a box, called it WoW and it would have sold. The player base is that fanatical about the series.
Vanguard: PvE game w/ seperate rule servers for PvP?
Darkfall: Shows promise too.
Darkfall is the only other game that will offer territory control and city building. So if you are going to compare different games there are certainly more criteria to success than or reasons for failure than the end dollar amount they made.
Ok games that I thought were finished enough for release.
EQII - pros- classes weer pretty well balanced, there was a ton of quests to
do and plenty of mobs to fight
Cons- too heavy on group content vs. solo, too much zoning,
character models sucked
WoW- pros- it was fun and the graphics were/are great
cons- too combatcentric, no housing,too simplified, too linear
COH- pros great graphics, plenty of mobs to fight, and fast paced combat
cons- nothing to do but fight and a heck of a grind after lvl 20
DAOC- pros- a fairly stable launch, unique gameplay (RvR) for it's time
cons- lack of content at release, imbalanced classes, if it were released
in this kind of shape tomorrow it would have never been as
successful as it was
All of the games which I mentioned as failures or dead games walking had buggy releases and a lack of content. No thanks I do not want to be a pioneer, I want to buy a game that is reasonably stable and fun to play from day one.
I miss DAoC
You forgot Comparable.
As I said in the other thread the only game I would really compare it to is Mourning for the reason I mentioned there. I get a really bad feeling when the developers more or less admit that the game is a pile before they even release it and appeal to the fanboys to help them build their game. I might DL it if it's free but I don't pay top beta a game.
I miss DAoC
There is no logic to saying "Mourning is a piece of crap...................so DnL is going to be a piece of crap"
Of course that had nothing with the point I was trying to make WHICH IS.......
What game is offering the same kind or similar content than DnL is trying to provide?
I have said, OTHER THAN Darkfall, no gaming company is even trying.
Based on SBs limited success AND based on the idea that no other game currently out or coming out is attempting to offer the same type of gameplay, BASED on that THREAD OF LOGIC, I believe there is pent up demand for a game like DnL. You have the right to excercise your choice by not paying for the game, as do I.
(I just wish you would use better arguments so this thread was more entertaining for me)
Actually I enjoy watching you try and persuade me/others/yourself that the game is going to be good just because there are no other PvP fantasy based games coming out in the near future. I am not sure where you see the logic in that but then so be it.
As far as comparing the game with Mourning, take off the rose colored glasses for a minute. DnL is showing every sign of being released in a partially developed state by a company that is financially strapped at the moment. Darn that sounds familiar. DnL Devs are telling people yeah it is not finished yet, but come be a pioneer and help us finish it. Wasn't it Mourning that had a downloadable world builder so they could try and get some content into the game? Mourning never had any sort of open beta or stress test, hmm DnL is "handpicking" it's beta testers. Fan Boys only need to apply I guess. LOL. I could go but what the heck.
Obviously you are desperate for this game to be good, and I wish you the best of luck. I may see you ingame if it can survive it's first 3 months that is. I promised the Mourning people that also... never cost me a cent either
The way I see it if the game is good it will still be there a couple of months after release and I can buy it and won't have missed anything except the first weeks pain while they try and get the server stable. I never regretted a decision not to buy on release day. Saved myself a few hundred by waiting on games like AC2, SB, Mourning, and SoR until I saw whether it was smoke and mirror games by the devs or was actually worth my money.
I miss DAoC
/yawn
You bore me now.
Actually, it's not that he bores you, it's that you really can't think of any decent counterpoint to what he is saying, so you're attempting to act pompuous.
Jackdog is not flaming here; his view on what may very well happen to this game is on line with what many people looking in from the outside think. It doesn't matter if no one has ever attempted what DnL is attempting--releasing an unfinished game is still releasing an unfinished game. And if they actually intend to do this come November, they will undoubtably create a small playerbase consisting of the truly hardcore (as every game, no matter how buggy or unfinished, always has), but DnL will never become a success; it will simply be another AC2, MxO, Shadowbane, etc.
I miss DAoC
Jack made some very good points.
And thats it? Thats all you've got to say in response?
Just curious, how have the fans on the DnL boards responded to an early Mourning-style release? It would be almost sureal if they thought it was great and were looking forward to "making it a great game" or some such rehtoric. Surely someone over there is seeing the writing on the wall.....surely.
Jack made some very good points.
And thats it? Thats all you've got to say in response?
Just curious, how have the fans on the DnL boards responded to an early Mourning-style release? It would be almost sureal if they thought it was great and were looking forward to "making it a great game" or some such rehtoric. Surely someone over there is seeing the writing on the wall.....surely.
Bah the fanbois over here hate it when I bring up what I feel are very real concerns. All they want to hear is "THIS GAME RULZ" and "I can't wait till release". What they cannot understand is that I really want this to be a great game also but if it is half as bad of shape as what I fear, it will be straight down the toilet. there are no second chances with gamers, just look at what happened last week with AC2. bad release and they never could recover, Horizons is sharing a similar fate right now, even SOE screwed up royally by releasing EQII a month or so early and WoW is still kicking it's butt and they have a hell of a lot better marketing dept than DnL does.
So go ahead DnL devs do a early release and get whatever pennies the fanboys are wiling to throw you. Then sit back and see what happens. If the game is buggy, and lacks content it will be shredded on the forums not only here but all of the game sites. Then the majority of MMO players won't touch the game even with a free download a free month. Or you could have a extended open beta and publicly announce the game still needs a ton of work and get a heck of a lot of free publicity of the good type.
I miss DAoC
If if if if if if if if, if if if. If if if if: 1) If if if 2) If if 3) If if if if, if if if. If if if if if if! If if if if if if? If.
Yes, some very good If's in this thread, but that is all they are. If they release the game in November and if it's an unfishished game and if this and if that. LOL seriously guys, it's easy to see who likes the concept and who doesn't. Just shut it and let the thing come out and then tell me it's incomplete. Till then, its a big wankfest of if's. Great fun for wasting time, but you could be outside talking to girls or skinning your knee from actually doing something.
Just a suggestion, don't get all iffy lol
.
I miss DAoC
CoH not that fun ??? Geez imho that was the main thing it had going for it!
Agree completely about DAoC
Which proves (if it needed proving) that opinions are like a$$holes.... everyone has one.... and in MMO's thats all they are is opinions..
I consider myself a "tester" and not a "player" during Betas.... I agree pretty strongly with your points in the OT. I would like to have a look at DnL and I have been registered and posting since May 2004.
I also agree with Jackdog though... that these days if you think you can get away with releasing a shell and a pile of promises, your going to be disapointed. Im pleased to say that generally speaking the players are getting more wise to companies releasing half finished products accompanied by claims of quick improvements and additions. Whilst Im not suggesting that DnL will follow this path, I agree with JD that if they do... they will be doomed...
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Yes, the date is set in stone, which is the very point of all of this negativity. If you'd do a little research, you would find out that the devs have stated that on November 5, they are releasing to the public whatever they happen to have finished come hell or high water.
Furthermore, I see no one flaming besides you. Everyone posting here genuinely likes the ideas behind the game, but can see the writing on the wall regarding the game's future. People want this idea to succeed, but the developers are simply shooting themselves in the foot with what they are planning to do. Please, next time do a little research and try to understand what others are saying before accusing everyone and their brother of being a troll.
I know you fancy yourself the MMORPG Avenger, but just think before you point fingers next time.
they cant just keep pushing it back and pushing it back(or can they, they seem to)
people will lose interest, they wont have the money. they are going to have to release it sooner rather than later or some of the newer games coming will beat them to the punch and there goes a huge portion of thier subscribers.
You are absolutey right fulmanfu, they cannot just keep pushing it back, unfortunately. There is such a thing as a drop dead date for most MMORPG's. That is they have to release or just forget it. Wish was a good example of that, it had a great set of devs just some flawed concepts. I am not sure what went wrong with DnL, whether it was the Devs or something else. However as you pointed out it looks as if it is either now or never.
Oh and anachyart I have been a member of the official DnL boards since November of 03 so that should be info enough on my troll/fan status. It just torques my rear that the game will commit suicide by release although I realize at this point that there is not much else that can be done,
I miss DAoC
I think the only thing to force a drop dead date are financial considerations - as in - we are out of money and cant get anymore VC. If they were to release the game feature complete in November 2006 - a year later than expected - and delivered on their promises - we would all be playing. I cant see anyone saying "i've heard that game is awesome, but i am not going to play it because it took them too long to develop it..."
I really hope they push the game back at least a few months if it is as unready as has been stated by some of the beta leakers...
The only opinion that matters to me, is mine. I've played the game, and I thought it was crap. Nobody telling me how awesome they *think* it will be can change my mind.
Don't Believe The Hype.
Actually darq mon frere, if you will read my post again I didn't point any fingers, I merely asked a question which still hasn't been answered which I am genuinely interested in. I actually did check the site and it said November, which is why if you will read my post again I never doubted the November release date. Release dates commonly get pushed back in this industry as I am POSITIVE you know, which is the reason for the undertone of sarcasm. Be nice if you read my post all the way through also before getting in too much of a huff.
So Jackdog do you think that 2 full months isn't enough time to finish this game for a November release?
I miss DAoC