Then it's a good thing that Uncharted Waters Origin already launched this year, so now the genre is safe.
While some of you were sitting around here whining, I've been having fun playing a game I enjoy. This is the most fun I've had playing an online game since Spiral Knights way back in 2011, and I've been playing UWO for nearly half a year now.
sacriledge naming a mobile game ...
UWO is what crossplay between PC and mobile should be. The nature of the game is that there's nothing remotely twitchy about it and the input controls don't need to be complicated, so nothing important is lost by making it also available for mobile. There are two completely separate rendering paths, so the graphics at sea can push my Vega 64 pretty hard, or the mobile renderer can make the game run fine on a phone or a low end laptop with an integrated GPU.
Meanwhile, there is a major new patch that adds a bunch of new content every four weeks. There is a huge variety of things to do rather than just having to loop one stupid thing endlessly. There are separate servers for PVP and PVE, so you can attack others if you want to, but never have to get attacked by some whale if you don't want to.
People see the gachas and freak out, but the monetization isn't bad at all. Buying gacha tickets is there as a way to give blue whales something to spend money on, but no one else is supposed to buy the gachas. The difference between the blue whale who drops thousands of dollars on the game and the moderate spender who spends $20/month or so is that the former gets S-grade mates immediately, while the latter has to wait until he has enough contracts to upgrade C-grade mates to S-grade, at which point, he catches up. Even the completely free player faces only the additional restriction that he's only going to get the five starting admirals and not the others.
There may be some additional differences at level 65+ content, but nearly six months past launch, hardly anyone is there yet, so I don't know. If you play completely free, it's a very slow leveling game. If you go full blue whale, it's a slightly less slow leveling game. Besides, if a game is fun for a year, and then you hit a wall at endgame, that's a lot better than you'll get from most games.
If more mobile games did things the way that UWO does, then "mobile game" wouldn't be such an epithet.
After playing Undecember I realised that a game that can played on a phone is not necessarily bad. The game plays very well and I play it on the PC and it is not at all like how I imagined a mobile game would be. It is complex and fun like hell. Yes you can whale but I didn't. So my prejudice against mobile games have somewhat diminished greatly. Now I judge every game on its merits rather than whether it can be played on a phone.
The reality in 2023 is that companies can make alot more money elsewhere and many younger gamers are turning to mobile games for convenience over quality. People just dont sit around and play a MMO for 14-18 hours a day like they used to.
I never played a MMORPG for 14 to 18 hours a day and my guess is those kind of hours were more of an outlier rather than the norm.
These games were never designed for that sort of player, in fact I'm sure the early developers were surprised to find out such no lifers even existed.
I can remember spending the complete weekend playing daoc. The pvp was that good. But now, looking back on it i can realize it was a complete waste of time. I miss those days. lol
If you remember something that well it was a great use of your time. How many other things can you remember that you did that year?
I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible to have a good game on a mobile or it is impossible to have a good cash shop on a mobile. But the fact that so many are poor games with outrageous cash shops tells it's own story. The fact that those mobile bad cash shop practices have infected wider gaming just adds insult to injury.
The reason it infects other games is because game companies are following the money. It is your fellow gamers that at fault and the quality of a game is not necessarily hampered by its monetization unless it is essential. If you play it perfectly well without being a whale it is merely an inconvenience one has to contend with.
The reason it infects other games is because game companies are following the money. It is your fellow gamers that at fault and the quality of a game is not necessarily hampered by its monetization unless it is essential. If you play it perfectly well without being a whale it is merely an inconvenience one has to contend with.
I only partially agree as it takes two to tango, studios and players, always has.
I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible to have a good game on a mobile or it is impossible to have a good cash shop on a mobile. But the fact that so many are poor games with outrageous cash shops tells it's own story. The fact that those mobile bad cash shop practices have infected wider gaming just adds insult to injury.
To me it's also very difficult to envision a game being able to support KB+Mouse input and a phone input at the same time. It drove me nuts when I tried Diablo Immortal. Also the view has to work on a 6 inch screen as well as a 40 inch monitor.
This is also why I generally do not like games that are crafted for both PC and Console unless the PC is the primary build.
To me it's not just about monetization or about which is "deeper" but also around input, networking(are you going to have 50 players on screen in a mobile game?) and display.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible to have a good game on a mobile or it is impossible to have a good cash shop on a mobile. But the fact that so many are poor games with outrageous cash shops tells it's own story. The fact that those mobile bad cash shop practices have infected wider gaming just adds insult to injury.
To me it's also very difficult to envision a game being able to support KB+Mouse input and a phone input at the same time. It drove me nuts when I tried Diablo Immortal. Also the view has to work on a 6 inch screen as well as a 40 inch monitor.
This is also why I generally do not like games that are crafted for both PC and Console unless the PC is the primary build.
To me it's not just about monetization or about which is "deeper" but also around input, networking(are you going to have 50 players on screen in a mobile game?) and display.
I object to consoles because they don't use a keyboard and mouse, that plus the mobiles small screen is a big turn off. Still, you could make a good mobile game bearing in mind the technical limitations, we just don't see a lot of them.
Undecember is on mobile. You can place ten skills on 2 bars and you can switch between them with 4 more that proc when certain conditions are met, so that is like 14 skills. I use a controller but you can use a KB and mouse to play Undecember. I don't like the KB and mouse because it is a terrible strain on my hands. So I use a controller. The KB and mouse and even with a gaming mouse is very bad long term on your hands and it is a poor way to play games for longer than an hour especially ARPGs.
Using a controller does not mean that the game has less skills you can use. I believe FFXIV can place 48 skills on a controller. The same goes for a mobile game that you can play on the PC. Undecember is quite a complex game as far as skills and gameplay go but that is just my opinion. I found the game very challenging at the end game.
I have taken on at level 100 in the chaos dungeons level 140 mobs which were really hard. The max is 144 but I have not been able to reach those nosebleed levels because of the hideous RNG gear upgrade that randomly roles affixes on the gear. I have also soloed when everyone died the hard core raid boss. He had only 25% hp left but all my team mates were dead so I killed him. That was a great thrill for me.
I sincerely don't know how people play it on a phone because the graphics look quite demanding plus the lag must be awful I would never subject myself to playing Undecember on a phone. I think you guys just do not have enough exposure to these types of games and are making assumptions based on what you think is the case rather than actual experience of a mobile game playable on the PC.
I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible to have a good game on a mobile or it is impossible to have a good cash shop on a mobile. But the fact that so many are poor games with outrageous cash shops tells it's own story. The fact that those mobile bad cash shop practices have infected wider gaming just adds insult to injury.
To me it's also very difficult to envision a game being able to support KB+Mouse input and a phone input at the same time. It drove me nuts when I tried Diablo Immortal. Also the view has to work on a 6 inch screen as well as a 40 inch monitor.
This is also why I generally do not like games that are crafted for both PC and Console unless the PC is the primary build.
To me it's not just about monetization or about which is "deeper" but also around input, networking(are you going to have 50 players on screen in a mobile game?) and display.
It really depends on what a game is trying to do. If you want quick access to 50 skills on hotbars at all times, then yeah, that's going to be a problem on a phone. If you want fast, precise controls, then that is also a problem on a phone. But plenty of games don't need either of those.
There's no need for a game that is available for both PC and mobile to have exactly the same UI for both. The PC version of UWO has hotkeys that are presumably unavailable on the phone version, so that you'd have to navigate through menus more on the phone. But that's not a problem if you're playing the PC version of it.
I don't think anyone is saying it is impossible to have a good game on a mobile or it is impossible to have a good cash shop on a mobile. But the fact that so many are poor games with outrageous cash shops tells it's own story. The fact that those mobile bad cash shop practices have infected wider gaming just adds insult to injury.
To me it's also very difficult to envision a game being able to support KB+Mouse input and a phone input at the same time. It drove me nuts when I tried Diablo Immortal. Also the view has to work on a 6 inch screen as well as a 40 inch monitor.
This is also why I generally do not like games that are crafted for both PC and Console unless the PC is the primary build.
To me it's not just about monetization or about which is "deeper" but also around input, networking(are you going to have 50 players on screen in a mobile game?) and display.
It really depends on what a game is trying to do. If you want quick access to 50 skills on hotbars at all times, then yeah, that's going to be a problem on a phone. If you want fast, precise controls, then that is also a problem on a phone. But plenty of games don't need either of those.
There's no need for a game that is available for both PC and mobile to have exactly the same UI for both. The PC version of UWO has hotkeys that are presumably unavailable on the phone version, so that you'd have to navigate through menus more on the phone. But that's not a problem if you're playing the PC version of it.
I think most games are only designed to turn dopamine into profits. These things are not very important to the industry anymore, even if you and others make great points that any real professional would strive for.
I think you guys just do not have enough exposure to these types of games and are making assumptions based on what you think is the case rather than actual experience of a mobile game playable on the PC.
You can think anything you want.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I sincerely don't know how people play it on a phone because the graphics look quite demanding plus the lag must be awful I would never subject myself to playing Undecember on a phone. I think you guys just do not have enough exposure to these types of games and are making assumptions based on what you think is the case rather than actual experience of a mobile game playable on the PC.
You keep mentioning Undecember, it has Mixed reviews both Recent and All on steam, a score of 54 on Metacritic (only 2 reviews mind you). It seems to me on that basis exactly the sort of mobile game I would want to avoid. If I was looking at a AAA PC only game I would be in the same mind, nothing to do with it being mobile.
The reason for the poor reviews were because of their monetization which initially was pretty bad but by the time I started playing almost 5-6 months later they had toned it down a lot. There was also the issue of their anticheat that got left behind after you uninstalled the game (which is bad nobody wants that) They later put in a way to remove it but by then the damage was already done.
You only get one chance to impress and they lost it because of these two things. I started playing so much later and none of these issues were there any more. The game is actually quite good and has an interesting system quite similar to Path of Exile's gem system and exactly what I enjoy.
I've put in close to 700 hours in the game so I am talking about the game having played it quite a lot and not merely dabbling in it for a few hours. It has a fantastic classless system that allows you to basically try any skill and combination of skills to come up with a build that works for your own tastes. Of course there are always some overpowered builds but by and large as I have like 5 alts I can say it is quite customizable.
There is also a dearth of information on the game and it is quite complex and without the reddit community I would have given up quickly. A lot is terribly hard to find out without someone telling you where to look. You can easily miss so many things and there are many, many systems in the game that are completely hidden behind a lot of menus. Again playing this on mobile must suck. I do all the menu navigation with a mouse and use the controller for combat only.
I literally have a whole notebook dedicated to this game on all the systems. It is also not straight forward as far as how the skills work and even that needs one to do a great deal of research to find out what runes you can place to enhance your skills. I enjoy games that are complex and ones that require a lot of thought and planning so this is right up my alley. Considering I am in the end game and able to tackle monsters 40 levels above me on a build that is hardly played. You can hardly find minion build videos save one youtuber who gave me huge insights into the skills. I am pretty proud of what I have accomplished in this game. I also resorted to watching a tonne of Korean videos with subtitles to help me with some skills.
I regularly see people completely give up on minion builds very early on. There are some very strong builds like the bow and spin to win stuff but if you have the patience and time to study the multitude of skills and their related runes you can really go to town and come up with some novel builds that can do well. See the similarities with POE?
However the pay off can take time as you need to spend time six slotting your skills and your gear upgrades that are RNG. It can grate and turn people off having to buy storage tabs and pay for a loot pet monthly. I decided to pay for the pet with real money but I consider paying 15 monthly for a game I play at least 4 hours a day totally fine.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is so laughable and out of touch with reality. There have never been more people playing MMORPGs and there have never been more MMORPGs to play.
Not only do we have Unreal 5 MMORPGs to look forward to but the implementation of AI as well.
I don't even like cash shops and I have my pick of tons of old private server and EMU MMORPGS from P99 Everquest, City of Heroes Homecoming, SWG, Turtle WoW, even Ultima Online is still going.
Saying that the MMORPG genre is dying is the opposite of reality. So much so that it's utter absurdity.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
This is so laughable and out of touch with reality. There have never been more people playing MMORPGs and there have never been more MMORPGs to play.
Not only do we have Unreal 5 MMORPGs to look forward to but the implementation of AI as well.
I don't even like cash shops and I have my pick of tons of old private server and EMU MMORPGS from P99 Everquest, City of Heroes Homecoming, SWG, Turtle WoW, even Ultima Online is still going.
Saying that the MMORPG genre is dying is the opposite of reality. So much so that it's utter absurdity.
There have never been more people watching TV series on some sort of platform or another, so TV is doing better and better! There have never been more people owning cars, so cars must be getting ever more brilliant!
Either that, or the worlds population is growing and businesses are finding new markets, you decide.
This is so laughable and out of touch with reality. There have never been more people playing MMORPGs and there have never been more MMORPGs to play.
Not only do we have Unreal 5 MMORPGs to look forward to but the implementation of AI as well.
I don't even like cash shops and I have my pick of tons of old private server and EMU MMORPGS from P99 Everquest, City of Heroes Homecoming, SWG, Turtle WoW, even Ultima Online is still going.
Saying that the MMORPG genre is dying is the opposite of reality. So much so that it's utter absurdity.
I'm sorry, but pointing to private and emulating servers as support that the MMORPG industry isn't dying just makes me chuckle.
This is so laughable and out of touch with reality. There have never been more people playing MMORPGs and there have never been more MMORPGs to play.
Not only do we have Unreal 5 MMORPGs to look forward to but the implementation of AI as well.
I don't even like cash shops and I have my pick of tons of old private server and EMU MMORPGS from P99 Everquest, City of Heroes Homecoming, SWG, Turtle WoW, even Ultima Online is still going.
Saying that the MMORPG genre is dying is the opposite of reality. So much so that it's utter absurdity.
I'm sorry, but pointing to private and emulating servers as support that the MMORPG industry isn't dying just makes me chuckle.
Private and emulating servers are a boon, but they indicate issues as much as they indicate a successful genre.
This is so laughable and out of touch with reality. There have never been more people playing MMORPGs and there have never been more MMORPGs to play.
Not only do we have Unreal 5 MMORPGs to look forward to but the implementation of AI as well.
I don't even like cash shops and I have my pick of tons of old private server and EMU MMORPGS from P99 Everquest, City of Heroes Homecoming, SWG, Turtle WoW, even Ultima Online is still going.
Saying that the MMORPG genre is dying is the opposite of reality. So much so that it's utter absurdity.
Link to verifiable data sources or it didn't happen.
Name a AAA MMORPG release in the past 5 years, or one in development that is likely to release in the next 5 years.
You can't.
Genre has been on its heels for years, but how does that phrase go?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the whole "MMOs are dead" thing is more about what kind of MMOs are being made and less about how many there are or how many people are playing.
It is more a statement that the kind of MMOs you like are currently not being made.
For example, my favorite MMO ever, and my gold standard of MMO design is City of Heroes. The only games that have that CoH DNA are Champions Online (not as good IMO) DCUO (a little bit) Star Trek Online (more like a distant cousin)
And there really aren't any new MMOs in development that have that CoH feel ( doesn't actually have to be super heroes, just play like CoH) Other than a few fan projects which, let's be honest, were never going to happen anyway.
So I guess for my particular tastes the MMO genre is "dead", even though there are a bunch of new games coming out.
So I get the "MMOs are dead" thing, even if they literally aren't I mean I am still waiting for a new Powerstone and Megaman Legends.
Comments
Heresy. xD
This is also why I generally do not like games that are crafted for both PC and Console unless the PC is the primary build.
To me it's not just about monetization or about which is "deeper" but also around input, networking(are you going to have 50 players on screen in a mobile game?) and display.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Using a controller does not mean that the game has less skills you can use. I believe FFXIV can place 48 skills on a controller. The same goes for a mobile game that you can play on the PC. Undecember is quite a complex game as far as skills and gameplay go but that is just my opinion. I found the game very challenging at the end game.
I have taken on at level 100 in the chaos dungeons level 140 mobs which were really hard. The max is 144 but I have not been able to reach those nosebleed levels because of the hideous RNG gear upgrade that randomly roles affixes on the gear. I have also soloed when everyone died the hard core raid boss. He had only 25% hp left but all my team mates were dead so I killed him. That was a great thrill for me.
I sincerely don't know how people play it on a phone because the graphics look quite demanding plus the lag must be awful I would never subject myself to playing Undecember on a phone. I think you guys just do not have enough exposure to these types of games and are making assumptions based on what you think is the case rather than actual experience of a mobile game playable on the PC.
There's no need for a game that is available for both PC and mobile to have exactly the same UI for both. The PC version of UWO has hotkeys that are presumably unavailable on the phone version, so that you'd have to navigate through menus more on the phone. But that's not a problem if you're playing the PC version of it.
Once upon a time....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You only get one chance to impress and they lost it because of these two things. I started playing so much later and none of these issues were there any more. The game is actually quite good and has an interesting system quite similar to Path of Exile's gem system and exactly what I enjoy.
I've put in close to 700 hours in the game so I am talking about the game having played it quite a lot and not merely dabbling in it for a few hours. It has a fantastic classless system that allows you to basically try any skill and combination of skills to come up with a build that works for your own tastes. Of course there are always some overpowered builds but by and large as I have like 5 alts I can say it is quite customizable.
There is also a dearth of information on the game and it is quite complex and without the reddit community I would have given up quickly. A lot is terribly hard to find out without someone telling you where to look. You can easily miss so many things and there are many, many systems in the game that are completely hidden behind a lot of menus. Again playing this on mobile must suck. I do all the menu navigation with a mouse and use the controller for combat only.
I literally have a whole notebook dedicated to this game on all the systems. It is also not straight forward as far as how the skills work and even that needs one to do a great deal of research to find out what runes you can place to enhance your skills. I enjoy games that are complex and ones that require a lot of thought and planning so this is right up my alley. Considering I am in the end game and able to tackle monsters 40 levels above me on a build that is hardly played. You can hardly find minion build videos save one youtuber who gave me huge insights into the skills. I am pretty proud of what I have accomplished in this game. I also resorted to watching a tonne of Korean videos with subtitles to help me with some skills.
I regularly see people completely give up on minion builds very early on. There are some very strong builds like the bow and spin to win stuff but if you have the patience and time to study the multitude of skills and their related runes you can really go to town and come up with some novel builds that can do well. See the similarities with POE?
However the pay off can take time as you need to spend time six slotting your skills and your gear upgrades that are RNG. It can grate and turn people off having to buy storage tabs and pay for a loot pet monthly. I decided to pay for the pet with real money but I consider paying 15 monthly for a game I play at least 4 hours a day totally fine.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not only do we have Unreal 5 MMORPGs to look forward to but the implementation of AI as well.
I don't even like cash shops and I have my pick of tons of old private server and EMU MMORPGS from P99 Everquest, City of Heroes Homecoming, SWG, Turtle WoW, even Ultima Online is still going.
Saying that the MMORPG genre is dying is the opposite of reality. So much so that it's utter absurdity.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Either that, or the worlds population is growing and businesses are finding new markets, you decide.
Once upon a time....
Name a AAA MMORPG release in the past 5 years, or one in development that is likely to release in the next 5 years.
You can't.
Genre has been on its heels for years, but how does that phrase go?
There's none so blind as those who will not see.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/It is more a statement that the kind of MMOs you like are currently not being made.
For example, my favorite MMO ever, and my gold standard of MMO design is City of Heroes.
The only games that have that CoH DNA are Champions Online (not as good IMO) DCUO (a little bit) Star Trek Online (more like a distant cousin)
And there really aren't any new MMOs in development that have that CoH feel ( doesn't actually have to be super heroes, just play like CoH)
Other than a few fan projects which, let's be honest, were never going to happen anyway.
So I guess for my particular tastes the MMO genre is "dead", even though there are a bunch of new games coming out.
So I get the "MMOs are dead" thing, even if they literally aren't
I mean I am still waiting for a new Powerstone and Megaman Legends.