Ashes of Creation CEO Reflects on 2023 and Acknowledges the 'Challenges' in the Industry | MMORPG.co

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Ashes of Creation CEO Reflects on 2023 and Acknowledges the 'Challenges' in the Industry | MMORPG.com

In an end of year missive on the official Ashes of Creation Discord, CEO Steven Sharif shared his thoughts on the strides and popularity of Ashes of Creation while noting that all was not well with game development this past year.

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IceAge

Star Citizen 2.0

Dattelis

2030 will be a good time to be a mmorpg player......hopefully

Grymmoire

Will we see a Phoenix rising from the Ashes, or just another year or two or three of it blazing into flames?

Phoenix_Hawk

This, and Star Citizen are the kinds of things that worry me. If you can pull in good revenue, without actually providing a finished product/service, there's no incentive to actually finish it, so they can just keep peddling the hope that it will be the "perfect" game once it is released, while not actually trying to finish it. I can just see more, and more people trying to do the same in the future.

This sort of thing should not be allowed, there should be hard limits on how far outside of the time of delivery you can ask for money from the end user. These things are far, far too risky for the end user, as they lack the info to make sound "investments" in these things, can all to often not employ good judgment regarding expenditures, and if things fall out, they're on their own regarding getting any money back. Normal crowdfunding is bad enough, and I really don't think that taking off was a good idea either, but this is all next level risky scummy crap.

emperorhades1

No, you're never gonna get it (ow!)
Never ever gonna get it (no, not this time)
No, you're never gonna get it (my love)
Never ever gonna get it
No, you're never gonna get it (ow!)
Never ever gonna get it (not this time)
No, you're never gonna get it (my love)
Never never gonna get it

Nanfoodle

Seeing the comments is proof why game developers and gaming fans mostly avoid this site  

Robokapp

this site [negative opinion] for years.

Nanfoodle

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

maskedweasel

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

Sometimes it's weird the stuff that gets positive traction here. Mostly it's really obscure stuff. I think the most popular stuff gets knocked pretty hard on the forums but still seems to drive a lot of traffic since I see it on the trends most of the time. 

Talraekk

Only read the comments, for the most part. I seriously agree funding and oversight need to become better. I'd say, outright, freedom to develop your game is paramount. But nowadays, 1 year, 3 years, 10 years. Of shit like constant funding and backpedaling. There IS a line, and again, at some point, we need to stick to it.

Tiller

Sounds like they are feeling some guilt and feel seen after witnessing The Day Before debacle lmao. "Games are challenging to develop" Well no shit, stop over-promising and under-delivering then.

Herithius

Wasn't Alpha 1 over 2 years ago? And despite this Alpha 2 isn't until Q3 2024 (at the earliest?). I don't want to even guess a release date on this one.

Kyleran

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.

dinogn

Lol at this point Star Citizen will release before.

Scot

Nanfoodle said:

Seeing the comments is proof why game developers and gaming fans mostly avoid this site  

I agree but if your only read posts by "Yes Men" you are being myopic, it is the negatives that give balance and reveal the cracks in the system. Not all such posts of course, you have use your own judgment something that is becoming unfashionable these days.

Nanfoodle

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.

The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope. 

olepi

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.

The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope. 

If 6 to 10 years is the accepted timeframe for developing a good MMO, why do developers claim they can do it in 3?

That is my biggest gripe, and shows the developers don't know what they are doing. This is why 90% of startups, and not just gaming startups, fail.  It is not the gamers that made the claim they could produce a game in less than 6-10 years, it is the developers themselves. 

So the remaining question is: did the developers intentionally lie? or are they just incompetent?

Winterhearted

Ashes of the Day Before.

MadBomber13

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.

The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope. 

Real MMOers indeed. WTF does that even mean? People that agree with my point of view?

Maybe this site doesn't get as much foot traffic as it once did because it has seen better days when it comes to content and love from the owners and maybe because MMOs in general aren't as popular as they once were with gamers and big studios and mostly relegated to small indie teams. 

Nobody owes you an explanation why they are on this site and let's face it, the forums are mostly visited by and posted on by a small core of vets of this site who, without their participation, the forums would be mostly dead. 

True MMOers... Do you people even read the stuff you post on here sometimes and how entitled and sanctimonious it come across sometimes?

Nanfoodle

MadBomber13 said:

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.

The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope. 

Real MMOers indeed. WTF does that even mean? People that agree with my point of view?

Maybe this site doesn't get as much foot traffic as it once did because it has seen better days when it comes to content and love from the owners and maybe because MMOs in general aren't as popular as they once were with gamers and big studios and mostly relegated to small indie teams. 

Nobody owes you an explanation why they are on this site and let's face it, the forums are mostly visited by and posted on by a small core of vets of this site who, without their participation, the forums would be mostly dead. 

True MMOers... Do you people even read the stuff you post on here sometimes and how entitled and sanctimonious it come across sometimes?

Real MMOers, people who have been around the block and know what makes an MMO and its development cycle is. Also that understand, MMOs never launch on time. In my 20+ years of MMOing, I have never seen one launch in its projected goal. Anyone following a MMO in development should know, its gonna be a long wait and if that's not your thing. Stop reading about said game till you see the beta announcements.

Kyleran

olepi said:

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.

The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope. 

If 6 to 10 years is the accepted timeframe for developing a good MMO, why do developers claim they can do it in 3?

That is my biggest gripe, and shows the developers don't know what they are doing. This is why 90% of startups, and not just gaming startups, fail.  It is not the gamers that made the claim they could produce a game in less than 6-10 years, it is the developers themselves. 

So the remaining question is: did the developers intentionally lie? or are they just incompetent?

There's the rub. Since nearly all of these indie MMO developers were clearly lying and / or grossly incompetent in their initial projections / promises, why should anyone assume they ever telling the truth or have any idea what they are doing?

Assuming they can and have learned more by this point, why can't they even post a potential delivery schedule to final release considering they are 5 or more years in development?

Or how about sharing a simple list of features still remaining to be completed prior to launch, with estimated times for each task?

There is no marketable product I know of where the delivery is so totally open ended that no projected target dates are ever given, except for crowd funded software.

Kyleran

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.

The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope. 

Listen to you, talking down to everyone here as if you are some wise sage of MMO development wisdom, when in fact you are just another gamer who got suckered into upgrading your pledge for substantial cash so you can test in the upcoming Alpha 2.

Good luck with that. 

MadBomber13

Nanfoodle said:

MadBomber13 said:

Maybe this site doesn't get as much foot traffic as it once did because it has seen better days when it comes to content and love from the owners and maybe because MMOs in general aren't as popular as they once were with gamers and big studios and mostly relegated to small indie teams. 

Nobody owes you an explanation why they are on this site and let's face it, the forums are mostly visited by and posted on by a small core of vets of this site who, without their participation, the forums would be mostly dead. 

True MMOers... Do you people even read the stuff you post on here sometimes and how entitled and sanctimonious it come across sometimes?

Real MMOers, people who have been around the block and know what makes an MMO and its development cycle is. Also that understand, MMOs never launch on time. In my 20+ years of MMOing, I have never seen one launch in its projected goal. Anyone following a MMO in development should know, its gonna be a long wait and if that's not your thing. Stop reading about said game till you see the beta announcements.

I guess that's a no to my last question...

Sovrath

olepi said:

Nanfoodle said:

Kyleran said:

Nanfoodle said:

If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?

We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.

The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope. 

If 6 to 10 years is the accepted timeframe for developing a good MMO, why do developers claim they can do it in 3?

That is my biggest gripe, and shows the developers don't know what they are doing. This is why 90% of startups, and not just gaming startups, fail.  It is not the gamers that made the claim they could produce a game in less than 6-10 years, it is the developers themselves. 

So the remaining question is: did the developers intentionally lie? or are they just incompetent?

The reason they make these claims is possibly because they think they can do it but I suspect it's mostly about getting backing/funding.

There are people out there who take risks but it's unfortunate that they take risks with other people's money.

That's why if one is considering backing any project they should really consider what is being shown or at the very least consider the scope of the project compared to the team working on it.

Scot

Nanfoodle said:

Real MMOers, people who have been around the block and know what makes an MMO and its development cycle is. Also that understand, MMOs never launch on time. In my 20+ years of MMOing, I have never seen one launch in its projected goal. Anyone following a MMO in development should know, its gonna be a long wait and if that's not your thing. Stop reading about said game till you see the beta announcements.

I agree with you but we have to draw a line somewhere, we can't say unlimited time is fine because we know how difficult it is. That is where your thinking leads, but yes many players do seem to think everything they are interested in playing should have launched yesterday.