Real MMOers, people who have been around the block and know what makes an MMO and its development cycle is. Also that understand, MMOs never launch on time. In my 20+ years of MMOing, I have never seen one launch in its projected goal. Anyone following a MMO in development should know, its gonna be a long wait and if that's not your thing. Stop reading about said game till you see the beta announcements.
I agree with you but we have to draw a line somewhere, we can't say unlimited time is fine because we know how difficult it is. That is where your thinking leads, but yes many players do seem to think everything they are interested in playing should have launched yesterday.
I 100% agree. It's why I have 100% stopped follow or reading or posting about anything Pantheon after many years of following that game.
Ashes is 6 years in and two set backs that put them 2 years behind. 1. They messed up the core code for the game and had to backtrack and spent almost a year fixing their code. That year they did almost no updates. 2nd setback was upgrading the game from UE4 to UE5. They lost another year doing so but IMO was the right move for the longevity of the game and how it speeds up the development.
Steven was a total newb on running his own company and struggled the first 2 years getting the quality staff he wanted. On their sight many positions were just never filled. He did 100% over sold what he could deliver but that being said. They course corrected and kept working at the game and are now pumping out quity updates. The studio seems to be at last firing on all cylinders. I still think he is over zealous but you can't deny he has a solid vision for the game he wants to make.
If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?
We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.
The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope.
Real MMOers indeed. WTF does that even mean? People that agree with my point of view?
Maybe this site doesn't get as much foot traffic as it once did because it has seen better days when it comes to content and love from the owners and maybe because MMOs in general aren't as popular as they once were with gamers and big studios and mostly relegated to small indie teams.
Nobody owes you an explanation why they are on this site and let's face it, the forums are mostly visited by and posted on by a small core of vets of this site who, without their participation, the forums would be mostly dead.
True MMOers... Do you people even read the stuff you post on here sometimes and how entitled and sanctimonious it come across sometimes?
Real MMOers, people who have been around the block and know what makes an MMO and its development cycle is. Also that understand, MMOs never launch on time. In my 20+ years of MMOing, I have never seen one launch in its projected goal. Anyone following a MMO in development should know, its gonna be a long wait and if that's not your thing. Stop reading about said game till you see the beta announcements.
Real MMOers aren't playing Palia. As for development cycles, considering everything of late has been a mix of incompetence and feature-creep, I don't know that anyone knows what is possible. My test case is DAoC. With all of the coding, network, asset, etc improvements in 20 years, I'm still not convinced a solid mmorpg can't be developed in a reasonable amount of time.
If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?
We like mostly finished or better yet, released games much more than those with a never ending development story.
The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope.
Listen to you, talking down to everyone here as if you are some wise sage of MMO development wisdom, when in fact you are just another gamer who got suckered into upgrading your pledge for substantial cash so you can test in the upcoming Alpha 2.
Good luck with that.
$50 bucks to have access to Alpha 2, to have a voice in the only MMO in development right now I even care about. I spent $50 at McDonald today to feed my family, but I will not miss that money
These projects dreamed too big. Start small show a quality fun game and continue to develop through expansions/patches as your player base warrants. Taking 7+ years to develop these games is not the answer and these studios should know this.
The timeframe for production of MMOs from real companies is 5 years.
The timeframe for production of MMOs from scam companies is 10+ years.
These scam companies say they can make an MMO in 3 years because they know that if they told the truth they would get far less suckers to buy in.
WoW was about 5 years back in 2004. It was considered ambitious in it's time. About 200 square km. It had very little end game content at launch. Most people were very board 6 months in.
Gamers today want an MMO to not launch in the state WoW did. When new MMOs do that, most of the population leave about 3 months after launch. We used to keep playing MMOs back then, often on the potential we saw in a game.
The industry now knows to keep people playing, they need robust end game content. Often before the game launches, they already have the first expansion in the que and ready to launch in a timely manner.
As gamers we also want the systems establish games like WoW has now 20 years in of development. If they don't. People just go back to established games.
What is expected today from an MMO launch, you just can't get that done in 5 years and to top that off. Blizzard had a much larger staff with lost of money to get things done back in 2004.
Ashes will have 1200 square Km of game play space with land and oceans. With the oceans combat, raids and PvP that will take place there. Besides that landmass that looks to be about 600 square km. With as many systems as a MMO that's been out 10+ years. I think your expectation of 5 years is not reasonable today.
If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?
Let me ask you about THIS part:
which also will note the end of Pre-order packs, that the team plans to stop selling on January 17th, 2024. They state that these packs will no longer be sold as they have “hit the number of Alpha 2 testers we are aiming for”. Here’s to hoping Ashes of Creation has a fantastic 2024, and that plenty of players get their hands on it in Alpha 2.
Do you believe this is legitimately the last time they will sell Pre-Order packs? Does it count if they rename them as Early Access packs? See, IMHO it's the blatant BuLLSHIT like this that turns me off to the developer. It's blatantly BULLSHIT yet it's posted over and over again by fans and sites which just creates the FOMO that the developer wants in order to get people to pay up so they don't "miss out" on their "last chance.
Is this OK in your mind? Does the end (more money for Stephen) justify the means?
I won't even get started on the uselessness of the term "Alpha2" and how it's almost a year away. When is RELEASE? But at the end of the day, that's secondary to the blatant FOMO bullshit that's being pushed and propagated. Sorry, IMHO it's NOT OK and the ends do NOT justify the means.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
$50 bucks to have access to Alpha 2, to have a voice in the only MMO in development right now I even care about. I spent $50 at McDonald today to feed my family, but I will not miss that money
There was a $50 Alpha 2 pledge? I think the cheapest ever was the $125 "Early Bird" kickstarter (yeah that FOMO started on day 1 with just 750 slots)
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?
Let me ask you about THIS part:
which also will note the end of Pre-order packs, that the team plans to stop selling on January 17th, 2024. They state that these packs will no longer be sold as they have “hit the number of Alpha 2 testers we are aiming for”. Here’s to hoping Ashes of Creation has a fantastic 2024, and that plenty of players get their hands on it in Alpha 2.
Do you believe this is legitimately the last time they will sell Pre-Order packs? Does it count if they rename them as Early Access packs? See, IMHO it's the blatant BuLLSHIT like this that turns me off to the developer. It's blatantly BULLSHIT yet it's posted over and over again by fans and sites which just creates the FOMO that the developer wants in order to get people to pay up so they don't "miss out" on their "last chance.
Is this OK in your mind? Does the end (more money for Stephen) justify the means?
I won't even get started on the uselessness of the term "Alpha2" and how it's almost a year away. When is RELEASE? But at the end of the day, that's secondary to the blatant FOMO bullshit that's being pushed and propagated. Sorry, IMHO it's NOT OK and the ends do NOT justify the means.
Good question. I don't have much of an answer. Think it falls under the same category every tech company is doing. I remember when I used to buy Microsoft Office once every few years and now I have to sub to use it yearly. Amazon adding a $3 a month charge to remove ads that never used to be there. Cant seem to buy games anymore, everything is a live service that needs me to pay developers monthly. Corporate business has learned making us pay for everything we want makes them even richer. None the less. I'm pleased I could pay $50 to get Alpha 2 but I hate the fact this used to be something testers got for free. World sucks and all we can do is try and make lemonade. None of it is fair, what ya gonna do?
$50 bucks to have access to Alpha 2, to have a voice in the only MMO in development right now I even care about. I spent $50 at McDonald today to feed my family, but I will not miss that money
There was a $50 Alpha 2 pledge? I think the cheapest ever was the $125 "Early Bird" kickstarter (yeah that FOMO started on day 1 with just 750 slots)
I pledged the Kickstarter at the beta 1 level with an early bird of $80. $50 upgrade moves it to Alpha 2.
The real MMOers here know its a fact. 6 to 10 years is a normal development cycle. If you can't take that, why are people even here on this site following games in devopment? Ashes has tones of real information that can be talked about. 2023 was packed with great information to talk about but nope.
This is the same sort of thing the Star Citizen believers used to say, and look at how that's coming along. Then Ashes was announced pretty much exactly seven years ago, may have been worked on for a while before hand, had its first alpha test almost two, and a half years ago, its second alpha test isn't for almost another year, then it will have who knows how many more alpha, beta, and whatever tests afterwards. Even going by your own definition of "normal," Ashes going by its current rate of progress, will blow right past it with ease.
Most people don't care about the development cycle of a game, they just want it to be properly released in a functional state, so they can play it. Although when that date appears to be some distant point in the future, hence the jokes about us being reduced to ashes by the time Ashes gets released, yet they're already asking for money from people, then yes, I feel people have every right to complain, as that shouldn't be a thing.
Two big differences. Ashes only selling cosmetics and testing access, not items you should be earning in game. If Steven keeps to his word, skins is all you will ever be able to buy.
Second Ashes teams has already stated Alpha 2 is the last stage before they move to Beta. Ashes business model is not a forever development.
This is the same sort of thing the Star Citizen believers used to say, and look at how that's coming along.
Just fine and still as much truth to it today as it had all those years ago.
Games can take a lot of time to make, the more ambitious they are the more time they will take.
Just because some gamers prefer to stay ignorant about game development doesn't render facts and logic useless.
Phoenix_Hawk said: Most people don't care about the development cycle of a game, they just want it to be properly released in a functional state, so they can play it.
If you don't care about the development cycle of a game why come to a thread about the development of a game? Seems counterproductive to say the least
Two big differences. Ashes only selling cosmetics and testing access, not items you should be earning in game. If Steven keeps to his word, skins is all you will ever be able to buy.
Second Ashes teams has already stated Alpha 2 is the last stage before they move to Beta. Ashes business model is not a forever development.
I don't think that will hold. No games really make it with cosmetic only unless those cosmetics are locked behind loot boxes.
Games like this sell hope. That's why they make a lot of money prerelease. But once everyone is in and playing the numbers will drop.
Imo they should keep it in development. We saw the power of hype and only hype with the day before. Somehow that game found a publisher and was kept alive for years in development and then died in less than a week.
Not saying it's apples to apples but this game is like almost a decade in and they're not even at a beta stage yet.
It looks like a good game but it still feels like a rookie production, and those usually have pipe dreams like cosmetic only cash shops and pay to win until they launch.
Considering how fast their battle Royale was pulled I feel like it's still a good idea to be cautious even if I'm also watching this game closely as a potential upcoming MMO.. sometime in 2030
Two big differences. Ashes only selling cosmetics and testing access, not items you should be earning in game. If Steven keeps to his word, skins is all you will ever be able to buy.
Second Ashes teams has already stated Alpha 2 is the last stage before they move to Beta. Ashes business model is not a forever development.
I don't think that will hold. No games really make it with cosmetic only unless those cosmetics are locked behind loot boxes.
Games like this sell hope. That's why they make a lot of money prerelease. But once everyone is in and playing the numbers will drop.
Imo they should keep it in development. We saw the power of hype and only hype with the day before. Somehow that game found a publisher and was kept alive for years in development and then died in less than a week.
Not saying it's apples to apples but this game is like almost a decade in and they're not even at a beta stage yet.
It looks like a good game but it still feels like a rookie production, and those usually have pipe dreams like cosmetic only cash shops and pay to win until they launch.
Considering how fast their battle Royale was pulled I feel like it's still a good idea to be cautious even if I'm also watching this game closely as a potential upcoming MMO.. sometime in 2030
If that's the path they take. I will, with no regrets, walk away
Idk, i think a lot of the posters here just want games to fail. I hope AOC succeeds, and if it does, I will be glad they took their time instead of rushing it out the door to make a quick buck. If it does fail, all the haters can have their 10 seconds of fame gloating here on the forums. I did not back it, but don't criticize folks that have. It is their money and i am sure they understood the risks involved. If the game doesn't release or is trash....I will not lose any sleep over it and have no reason to come here and tell someone who did " i told you so"..... People that do stuff like that are a sad lot.
If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?
Let me ask you about THIS part:
which also will note the end of Pre-order packs, that the team plans to stop selling on January 17th, 2024. They state that these packs will no longer be sold as they have “hit the number of Alpha 2 testers we are aiming for”. Here’s to hoping Ashes of Creation has a fantastic 2024, and that plenty of players get their hands on it in Alpha 2.
Do you believe this is legitimately the last time they will sell Pre-Order packs? Does it count if they rename them as Early Access packs? See, IMHO it's the blatant BuLLSHIT like this that turns me off to the developer. It's blatantly BULLSHIT yet it's posted over and over again by fans and sites which just creates the FOMO that the developer wants in order to get people to pay up so they don't "miss out" on their "last chance.
Is this OK in your mind? Does the end (more money for Stephen) justify the means?
I won't even get started on the uselessness of the term "Alpha2" and how it's almost a year away. When is RELEASE? But at the end of the day, that's secondary to the blatant FOMO bullshit that's being pushed and propagated. Sorry, IMHO it's NOT OK and the ends do NOT justify the means.
Good question. I don't have much of an answer. Think it falls under the same category every tech company is doing. I remember when I used to buy Microsoft Office once every few years and now I have to sub to use it yearly. Amazon adding a $3 a month charge to remove ads that never used to be there. Cant seem to buy games anymore, everything is a live service that needs me to pay developers monthly. Corporate business has learned making us pay for everything we want makes them even richer. None the less. I'm pleased I could pay $50 to get Alpha 2 but I hate the fact this used to be something testers got for free. World sucks and all we can do is try and make lemonade. None of it is fair, what ya gonna do?
Thats not even close to being the same. You are literally excusing what you know to be a lie. They are saying this is the end of Pre Orders. You know and I know that this is untrue. It's a blatant lie IMHO. There is no excuse.
And you didn't pay $50 to get Alpha 2. You paid $130. You could have bought the game for $25 at that same early access Kickstarter. The extra $105 is what you paid for testing access...
At the end of the day they can charge whatever they want for whatever they want. Where it crosses the line is when people support obvious lies, just in order to further a game that they have taken up as a cause. Yes, THESE Pre Order packs will be retired. They will be replaced with some other Pre-Order pack, renamed as Early Access, or True Believer or something else. To think that they are done selling access in Jan 2024 for a game not releasing until 2025 at the earliest... is simply disingenuous.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Phoenix_Hawk said: Most people don't care about the development cycle of a game, they just want it to be properly released in a functional state, so they can play it.
If you don't care about the development cycle of a game why come to a thread about the development of a game? Seems counterproductive to say the least
That is not what they said.
They said "Most people don't care about the development cycle of a game."
They did not say "I don't care about the development cycle of a game."
There is a difference.
Normally, here is where I would insult your intelligence but you're a Star Citizen fanatic so I don't need to.
If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?
Let me ask you about THIS part:
which also will note the end of Pre-order packs, that the team plans to stop selling on January 17th, 2024. They state that these packs will no longer be sold as they have “hit the number of Alpha 2 testers we are aiming for”. Here’s to hoping Ashes of Creation has a fantastic 2024, and that plenty of players get their hands on it in Alpha 2.
Do you believe this is legitimately the last time they will sell Pre-Order packs? Does it count if they rename them as Early Access packs? See, IMHO it's the blatant BuLLSHIT like this that turns me off to the developer. It's blatantly BULLSHIT yet it's posted over and over again by fans and sites which just creates the FOMO that the developer wants in order to get people to pay up so they don't "miss out" on their "last chance.
Is this OK in your mind? Does the end (more money for Stephen) justify the means?
I won't even get started on the uselessness of the term "Alpha2" and how it's almost a year away. When is RELEASE? But at the end of the day, that's secondary to the blatant FOMO bullshit that's being pushed and propagated. Sorry, IMHO it's NOT OK and the ends do NOT justify the means.
Good question. I don't have much of an answer. Think it falls under the same category every tech company is doing. I remember when I used to buy Microsoft Office once every few years and now I have to sub to use it yearly. Amazon adding a $3 a month charge to remove ads that never used to be there. Cant seem to buy games anymore, everything is a live service that needs me to pay developers monthly. Corporate business has learned making us pay for everything we want makes them even richer. None the less. I'm pleased I could pay $50 to get Alpha 2 but I hate the fact this used to be something testers got for free. World sucks and all we can do is try and make lemonade. None of it is fair, what ya gonna do?
Thats not even close to being the same. You are literally excusing what you know to be a lie. They are saying this is the end of Pre Orders. You know and I know that this is untrue. It's a blatant lie IMHO. There is no excuse.
And you didn't pay $50 to get Alpha 2. You paid $130. You could have bought the game for $25 at that same early access Kickstarter. The extra $105 is what you paid for testing access...
At the end of the day they can charge whatever they want for whatever they want. Where it crosses the line is when people support obvious lies, just in order to further a game that they have taken up as a cause. Yes, THESE Pre Order packs will be retired. They will be replaced with some other Pre-Order pack, renamed as Early Access, or True Believer or something else. To think that they are done selling access in Jan 2024 for a game not releasing until 2025 at the earliest... is simply disingenuous.
I think it's just what I said. Steven is running a business. Business know people want to Alpha and Beta test. We used to apply and list all the reason why we would make good testers. Demand was always higher then the spots available.
Selling spots is a great way to make money. I 100% agree this is gouging the gamers just to make money. But I can't count how many games I was invited to test that I had no interest in, so I'm thrilled to fork out $50 bucks to test a game Im excited about.
Flip side is they need testers that will engage. So it's a fact, most people have no clue what alpha testing means. So if IS does not have enough people engaging in the testing process, they will sell Alpha packs again and its 100% needed and its also 100% a lets take more money from the fans.
Steven said clearly and I don't doubt. They have all the Alpha testers they need. It does nothing to sell more slots then they need. I just don't agree with you that it's just a greed thing but it's not just a greed thing. They need testers that will engage. When testing was free, we would see new waves of invites for the same reason. Not all the testers kept testing.
As for what I paid. Was not trying to deceive. I have always been open I am a OG kickstarter for this game. I was thrilled over everyone else needing to drop $250 or $350. I forget the cost. I only needed to pay $50 to get Alpha 2 access.
Phoenix_Hawk said: Most people don't care about the development cycle of a game, they just want it to be properly released in a functional state, so they can play it.
If you don't care about the development cycle of a game why come to a thread about the development of a game? Seems counterproductive to say the least
That is not what they said.
They said "Most people don't care about the development cycle of a game."
They did not say "I don't care about the development cycle of a game."
There is a difference.
Normally, here is where I would insult your intelligence but you're a Star Citizen fanatic so I don't need to.
He included himself in the group dum dum .
No, you don't have the right to complain, you have the option to do so. That doesn't mean it's meritable.
Again, if gamers don't understand what game development and crowdfunding entails it's on them alone.
That delays and changes of features and even monetization models change along development and even after release it's public info and should be common knowledge by now.
Now you can go back to hating games like all the intelligent armchair developers around here
If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?
Let me ask you about THIS part:
which also will note the end of Pre-order packs, that the team plans to stop selling on January 17th, 2024. They state that these packs will no longer be sold as they have “hit the number of Alpha 2 testers we are aiming for”. Here’s to hoping Ashes of Creation has a fantastic 2024, and that plenty of players get their hands on it in Alpha 2.
Do you believe this is legitimately the last time they will sell Pre-Order packs? Does it count if they rename them as Early Access packs? See, IMHO it's the blatant BuLLSHIT like this that turns me off to the developer. It's blatantly BULLSHIT yet it's posted over and over again by fans and sites which just creates the FOMO that the developer wants in order to get people to pay up so they don't "miss out" on their "last chance.
Is this OK in your mind? Does the end (more money for Stephen) justify the means?
I won't even get started on the uselessness of the term "Alpha2" and how it's almost a year away. When is RELEASE? But at the end of the day, that's secondary to the blatant FOMO bullshit that's being pushed and propagated. Sorry, IMHO it's NOT OK and the ends do NOT justify the means.
Good question. I don't have much of an answer. Think it falls under the same category every tech company is doing. I remember when I used to buy Microsoft Office once every few years and now I have to sub to use it yearly. Amazon adding a $3 a month charge to remove ads that never used to be there. Cant seem to buy games anymore, everything is a live service that needs me to pay developers monthly. Corporate business has learned making us pay for everything we want makes them even richer. None the less. I'm pleased I could pay $50 to get Alpha 2 but I hate the fact this used to be something testers got for free. World sucks and all we can do is try and make lemonade. None of it is fair, what ya gonna do?
Thats not even close to being the same. You are literally excusing what you know to be a lie. They are saying this is the end of Pre Orders. You know and I know that this is untrue. It's a blatant lie IMHO. There is no excuse.
And you didn't pay $50 to get Alpha 2. You paid $130. You could have bought the game for $25 at that same early access Kickstarter. The extra $105 is what you paid for testing access...
At the end of the day they can charge whatever they want for whatever they want. Where it crosses the line is when people support obvious lies, just in order to further a game that they have taken up as a cause. Yes, THESE Pre Order packs will be retired. They will be replaced with some other Pre-Order pack, renamed as Early Access, or True Believer or something else. To think that they are done selling access in Jan 2024 for a game not releasing until 2025 at the earliest... is simply disingenuous.
I think it's just what I said. Steven is running a business. Business know people want to Alpha and Beta test. We used to apply and list all the reason why we would make good testers. Demand was always higher then the spots available.
Selling spots is a great way to make money. I 100% agree this is gouging the gamers just to make money. But I can't count how many games I was invited to test that I had no interest in, so I'm thrilled to fork out $50 bucks to test a game Im excited about.
Flip side is they need testers that will engage. So it's a fact, most people have no clue what alpha testing means. So if IS does not have enough people engaging in the testing process, they will sell Alpha packs again and its 100% needed and its also 100% a lets take more money from the fans.
Steven said clearly and I don't doubt. They have all the Alpha testers they need. It does nothing to sell more slots then they need. I just don't agree with you that it's just a greed thing but it's not just a greed thing. They need testers that will engage. When testing was free, we would see new waves of invites for the same reason. Not all the testers kept testing.
As for what I paid. Was not trying to deceive. I have always been open I am a OG kickstarter for this game. I was thrilled over everyone else needing to drop $250 or $350. I forget the cost. I only needed to pay $50 to get Alpha 2 access.
It's not a matter of needing more testers. Its a matter of needing to support the supposed 170 person development team. Let's just assume they are paid $100k in salary and benefits to keep the math simple. That's a burn rate of $17,000,000 a year. Just for salary.
Pre-Order packs are not going to stop being sold for the next year. It's not a "greed thing". It's a lying thing IMHO. I don't really care if they charge $10k for pre-orders. Just be honest about it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's not a lie it's what's planned at this time with the Data they have available.
Doesn't mean it cant change in the future.
Gamers need to understand that many factors in game development change constantly, including whatever plans a dev might have spoken about.
Factor that in everything about gaming and you'll stop falling into the "angry gamer" mode every time something doesn't go as expected.
I disagree that a Crowdfunded game is actually going to stop Pre orders years before release. I think you are lying if you think that is an actual possibility. Some people even lie to themselves.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If you are really following Ashes, the updates this year have been really great stuff and all ingame, gameplay, new game systems, nodes shown off, crafting, skill tree's, new classes shown, events, corrupted zones, caravans and the events and Gameplay that's tied into it, showing off UE5 fully implemented and that's just what I can name off the top of my head. Oh ya and the announcement for the last Alpha phase, Alpha 2 in 2024. Do we even like games here anymore?
Let me ask you about THIS part:
which also will note the end of Pre-order packs, that the team plans to stop selling on January 17th, 2024. They state that these packs will no longer be sold as they have “hit the number of Alpha 2 testers we are aiming for”. Here’s to hoping Ashes of Creation has a fantastic 2024, and that plenty of players get their hands on it in Alpha 2.
Do you believe this is legitimately the last time they will sell Pre-Order packs? Does it count if they rename them as Early Access packs? See, IMHO it's the blatant BuLLSHIT like this that turns me off to the developer. It's blatantly BULLSHIT yet it's posted over and over again by fans and sites which just creates the FOMO that the developer wants in order to get people to pay up so they don't "miss out" on their "last chance.
Is this OK in your mind? Does the end (more money for Stephen) justify the means?
I won't even get started on the uselessness of the term "Alpha2" and how it's almost a year away. When is RELEASE? But at the end of the day, that's secondary to the blatant FOMO bullshit that's being pushed and propagated. Sorry, IMHO it's NOT OK and the ends do NOT justify the means.
Good question. I don't have much of an answer. Think it falls under the same category every tech company is doing. I remember when I used to buy Microsoft Office once every few years and now I have to sub to use it yearly. Amazon adding a $3 a month charge to remove ads that never used to be there. Cant seem to buy games anymore, everything is a live service that needs me to pay developers monthly. Corporate business has learned making us pay for everything we want makes them even richer. None the less. I'm pleased I could pay $50 to get Alpha 2 but I hate the fact this used to be something testers got for free. World sucks and all we can do is try and make lemonade. None of it is fair, what ya gonna do?
Thats not even close to being the same. You are literally excusing what you know to be a lie. They are saying this is the end of Pre Orders. You know and I know that this is untrue. It's a blatant lie IMHO. There is no excuse.
And you didn't pay $50 to get Alpha 2. You paid $130. You could have bought the game for $25 at that same early access Kickstarter. The extra $105 is what you paid for testing access...
At the end of the day they can charge whatever they want for whatever they want. Where it crosses the line is when people support obvious lies, just in order to further a game that they have taken up as a cause. Yes, THESE Pre Order packs will be retired. They will be replaced with some other Pre-Order pack, renamed as Early Access, or True Believer or something else. To think that they are done selling access in Jan 2024 for a game not releasing until 2025 at the earliest... is simply disingenuous.
I think it's just what I said. Steven is running a business. Business know people want to Alpha and Beta test. We used to apply and list all the reason why we would make good testers. Demand was always higher then the spots available.
Selling spots is a great way to make money. I 100% agree this is gouging the gamers just to make money. But I can't count how many games I was invited to test that I had no interest in, so I'm thrilled to fork out $50 bucks to test a game Im excited about.
Flip side is they need testers that will engage. So it's a fact, most people have no clue what alpha testing means. So if IS does not have enough people engaging in the testing process, they will sell Alpha packs again and its 100% needed and its also 100% a lets take more money from the fans.
Steven said clearly and I don't doubt. They have all the Alpha testers they need. It does nothing to sell more slots then they need. I just don't agree with you that it's just a greed thing but it's not just a greed thing. They need testers that will engage. When testing was free, we would see new waves of invites for the same reason. Not all the testers kept testing.
As for what I paid. Was not trying to deceive. I have always been open I am a OG kickstarter for this game. I was thrilled over everyone else needing to drop $250 or $350. I forget the cost. I only needed to pay $50 to get Alpha 2 access.
It's not a matter of needing more testers. Its a matter of needing to support the supposed 170 person development team.
Thats the difference between you and I. You only see the negative side of it and there is some of that but the other side. They won't sell more Alpha 2 packs then they need testers. IS needs to pay money to keep servers running. Alpha 2 is persistant testing. Unlimited testers would cost IS too much money. Time will tell.
Comments
Ashes is 6 years in and two set backs that put them 2 years behind. 1. They messed up the core code for the game and had to backtrack and spent almost a year fixing their code. That year they did almost no updates. 2nd setback was upgrading the game from UE4 to UE5. They lost another year doing so but IMO was the right move for the longevity of the game and how it speeds up the development.
Steven was a total newb on running his own company and struggled the first 2 years getting the quality staff he wanted. On their sight many positions were just never filled. He did 100% over sold what he could deliver but that being said. They course corrected and kept working at the game and are now pumping out quity updates. The studio seems to be at last firing on all cylinders. I still think he is over zealous but you can't deny he has a solid vision for the game he wants to make.
Gamers today want an MMO to not launch in the state WoW did. When new MMOs do that, most of the population leave about 3 months after launch. We used to keep playing MMOs back then, often on the potential we saw in a game.
The industry now knows to keep people playing, they need robust end game content. Often before the game launches, they already have the first expansion in the que and ready to launch in a timely manner.
As gamers we also want the systems establish games like WoW has now 20 years in of development. If they don't. People just go back to established games.
What is expected today from an MMO launch, you just can't get that done in 5 years and to top that off. Blizzard had a much larger staff with lost of money to get things done back in 2004.
Ashes will have 1200 square Km of game play space with land and oceans. With the oceans combat, raids and PvP that will take place there. Besides that landmass that looks to be about 600 square km. With as many systems as a MMO that's been out 10+ years. I think your expectation of 5 years is not reasonable today.
Let me ask you about THIS part:
which also will note the end of Pre-order packs, that the team plans to stop selling on January 17th, 2024. They state that these packs will no longer be sold as they have “hit the number of Alpha 2 testers we are aiming for”. Here’s to hoping Ashes of Creation has a fantastic 2024, and that plenty of players get their hands on it in Alpha 2.
Do you believe this is legitimately the last time they will sell Pre-Order packs? Does it count if they rename them as Early Access packs? See, IMHO it's the blatant BuLLSHIT like this that turns me off to the developer. It's blatantly BULLSHIT yet it's posted over and over again by fans and sites which just creates the FOMO that the developer wants in order to get people to pay up so they don't "miss out" on their "last chance.
Is this OK in your mind? Does the end (more money for Stephen) justify the means?
I won't even get started on the uselessness of the term "Alpha2" and how it's almost a year away. When is RELEASE? But at the end of the day, that's secondary to the blatant FOMO bullshit that's being pushed and propagated. Sorry, IMHO it's NOT OK and the ends do NOT justify the means.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Second Ashes teams has already stated Alpha 2 is the last stage before they move to Beta. Ashes business model is not a forever development.
Games like this sell hope. That's why they make a lot of money prerelease. But once everyone is in and playing the numbers will drop.
Imo they should keep it in development. We saw the power of hype and only hype with the day before. Somehow that game found a publisher and was kept alive for years in development and then died in less than a week.
Not saying it's apples to apples but this game is like almost a decade in and they're not even at a beta stage yet.
It looks like a good game but it still feels like a rookie production, and those usually have pipe dreams like cosmetic only cash shops and pay to win until they launch.
Considering how fast their battle Royale was pulled I feel like it's still a good idea to be cautious even if I'm also watching this game closely as a potential upcoming MMO.. sometime in 2030
And you didn't pay $50 to get Alpha 2. You paid $130. You could have bought the game for $25 at that same early access Kickstarter. The extra $105 is what you paid for testing access...
At the end of the day they can charge whatever they want for whatever they want. Where it crosses the line is when people support obvious lies, just in order to further a game that they have taken up as a cause. Yes, THESE Pre Order packs will be retired. They will be replaced with some other Pre-Order pack, renamed as Early Access, or True Believer or something else. To think that they are done selling access in Jan 2024 for a game not releasing until 2025 at the earliest... is simply disingenuous.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Selling spots is a great way to make money. I 100% agree this is gouging the gamers just to make money. But I can't count how many games I was invited to test that I had no interest in, so I'm thrilled to fork out $50 bucks to test a game Im excited about.
Flip side is they need testers that will engage. So it's a fact, most people have no clue what alpha testing means. So if IS does not have enough people engaging in the testing process, they will sell Alpha packs again and its 100% needed and its also 100% a lets take more money from the fans.
Steven said clearly and I don't doubt. They have all the Alpha testers they need. It does nothing to sell more slots then they need. I just don't agree with you that it's just a greed thing but it's not just a greed thing. They need testers that will engage. When testing was free, we would see new waves of invites for the same reason. Not all the testers kept testing.
As for what I paid. Was not trying to deceive. I have always been open I am a OG kickstarter for this game. I was thrilled over everyone else needing to drop $250 or $350. I forget the cost. I only needed to pay $50 to get Alpha 2 access.
No, you don't have the right to complain, you have the option to do so. That doesn't mean it's meritable.
Again, if gamers don't understand what game development and crowdfunding entails it's on them alone.
That delays and changes of features and even monetization models change along development and even after release it's public info and should be common knowledge by now.
Now you can go back to hating games like all the intelligent armchair developers around here
Pre-Order packs are not going to stop being sold for the next year. It's not a "greed thing". It's a lying thing IMHO. I don't really care if they charge $10k for pre-orders. Just be honest about it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Doesn't mean it cant change in the future.
Gamers need to understand that many factors in game development change constantly, including whatever plans a dev might have spoken about.
Factor that in everything about gaming and you'll stop falling into the "angry gamer" mode every time something doesn't go as expected.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018