Massively is reporting large scale layoffs at CIG. Seems like folks are
being told to immediately (or with short notice) more to Manchester
England or lose their jobs.
Curious that the folks who post numbers somehow skipped this news?
>>>>
Massively is reporting "additional layoffs", not "large scale". If you want to stay true to your source.
And - just like you said - its mostly marching orders to the Manchester office. For tax reasons. Which quite a few of the US developers will not want to do.
Turbulent producer Annie Bouffard is quite outspoken and not happy, most of the others are quite low-key and matter of fact in public (if you check their LinkedIn profiles).
"the folks who post numbers" wait for the newest financial information, which is due soon. Especially the mandatory UK financial statement. Because they - well ... post numbers. And dont speculate as much as others.
Given the current situation in the gaming industry in general, it is not really surprising to see additional layoffs. And if you are an accountant: There currently is an opportunity to hire experienced talent at less than usual wages with all these people on the market looking for jobs.
Some on Reddit speculate that with Squadron 42 possibly in the polishing phase as reported, a few positions (such as a Lead Level Designer) are not needed anymore.
Meanwhile life continues in the (Alpha) game and many backers still ....
Have fun
They used the quote "Bouffard references leaving a “highly toxic company” after the end of January saw “a mass dismissal, disguised as a ‘relocation of staff’
So if you want to quibble whether large scale and mass dismissal are equivalent you go knock yourself out.
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So if you want to quibble whether large scale and mass dismissal are equivalent you go knock yourself out.
English is not my mother language, but as far I underrstand a mass dismissal does not require large scale on the context of layoffs, it implies that there's a larger number of employees being let go simultaneously.
To what may be 1 or 2 a week, can be 10 or 20 at once, isn't that on itself be a mass dismissal?
So if you want to quibble whether large scale and mass dismissal are equivalent you go knock yourself out.
English is not my mother language, but as far I know a mass dismissal does not imply large scale, it just implies a wave of dismissals at once to what the norm happens in a segregated manner.
English is my mother language. When used in this context it means large scale. As in : Mass shooter kills 15 at parade. And the dictionary definition: relating to, done by, or affecting large numbers of people or things.
But if this is the hill you wanna focus on... go ahead. Ill just wait to see the MMORPG article when it comes out.
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English is my mother language. When used in this context it means large scale. As in : Mass shooter kills 15 at parade. And the dictionary definition: relating to, done by, or affecting large numbers of people or things.
But if this is the hill you wanna focus on... go ahead. Ill just wait to see the MMORPG article when it comes out.
On a studio of 200, if 20 let are let go on layoffs, that can be seen as a mass layoff but it's a 10% cut.
Otherwise a "large number" wouldn't be the 10%, but a "larger than normal". The layoffs around labeled as mass layoffs have effectively represented a small fraction of the workforce.
Lots of 'splaining' ain't going to make it smell any less fishy.
What's fishy?
People say "relocation ain't real" but the thing that CIG did, on the past years, was downsize gamedev positions on the US while they've grown their other studios, especially the UK one:
If it wasn't for that, you'd figure "oh they just downsizing", but if one office downsizes and the other grows... they're moving the positions (even if they don't move the people).
But the trend as the graph there shows, is that they been slowly but surely removing dev positions in the US despite growing totals every year.
Lots of 'splaining' ain't going to make it smell any less fishy.
Bingo
Well they just did their article, and guess what nonburguer, "some people been laid off" that's it, meh
Idk what is the fishy thing, is there supposed to be a bigger truth here? CIG closing doors quietly and running away with all the money?
No. I hope this is the sign of them actually starting to be RESPONSIBLE and prudent with OUR money. They were far to large and ridiculously broken into numerous sub-companies. All for a company that has yet to produce a single launched game. Maybe if they right-size they can focus and deliver. No studio working on 1-2 projects needs to be as large as they grew.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Slapshot1188 said: Maybe if they right-size they can focus and deliver. No studio working on 1-2 projects needs to be as large as they grew.
Well with that much I agree. I do not think CIG needs to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest studio in gaming working on a single game to pull off SC.
There's a saying in gaming about too many cooks in the kitchen, only some areas benefit from that.
But I do underrstand these moves of them because moving positions isolated throughout multiple studios, and centralizing them especially in the UK studio, to me simply makes sense, even if they do it for cuttting costs there can't be a more efficient structure than people working together in the same place (and timezone!)
Lots of 'splaining' ain't going to make it smell any less fishy.
What's fishy?
People say "relocation ain't real" but the thing that CIG did, on the past years, was downsize gamedev positions on the US while they've grown their other studios, especially the UK one:
If it wasn't for that, you'd figure "oh they just downsizing", but if one office downsizes and the other grows... they're moving the positions (even if they don't move the people).
But the trend as the graph there shows, is that they been slowly but surely removing dev positions in the US despite growing totals every year.
Good post, and thanks for the graphic.
The shady elements come from things like how much notice of the move did they give their employees? Had they told them they'd be secure in their positions? Is it a way to layoff employees while not 'technically' laying them off?
Anyone with family given a short notice may have trouble navigating this -- partner's jobs, school year for kids, selling houses, etc.
And again, folks who want to continue working in the field tend to not complain about their previous employer. No matter what. So absence of complaints does not equal absence of reasons for complaints.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
The shady elements come from things like how much notice of the move did they give their employees? Had they told them they'd be secure in their positions? Is it a way to layoff employees while not 'technically' laying them off?
Anyone with family given a short notice may have trouble navigating this -- partner's jobs, school year for kids, selling houses, etc.
And again, folks who want to continue working in the field tend to not complain about their previous employer. No matter what. So absence of complaints does not equal absence of reasons for complaints.
I've seen this story on repeat on these waves of layoffs around gaming since last year, companies generally rather agressive, short notices, it's a pretty sad reality, even when management quells concerns of layoffs then they still happen anyway.
The downsize on those gamedev US teams has been progressive, it may be that the prospect of having an US employee move to the UK is by nature almost null that they've just been building those teams on offices like the UK, conduct the necessary knowledge transfer and when the dev is laid off there was already an active replacement in place.
That's what I think been happening, the financial numbers also sustain that they are in need to conduct cost cutting, it feels they did overreach on growth, as a company of this scale even with the huge amount of money they make the costs are also insanely high.
When I heard over 1,100 employees after Turbulent aquisition I was already saying last year expecting this year to see layoffs. The company has been increasing costs on the order of dozens of millions per year, sooner or later the income wouldn't be able to cope with it, now it's time for financial discipline; which is not outright a bad thing as that puts pressure on fullfilling deliveries, taking schedules more seriously and focusing dev efficiency.
The shady elements come from things like how much notice of the move did they give their employees? Had they told them they'd be secure in their positions? Is it a way to layoff employees while not 'technically' laying them off?
Of course it's a layoff. Moving location like this and asking people to move basically means that the company gets to keep a couple of people who relocate and their experience from the old location, while most are laid off.
It may be that they're just moving operations and will hire new workers in the new location to replace the old ones they laid off. But whether they are moving or downsizing, it should be called a layoff, because most of their affected employees are losing their jobs as a result.
It may be that they're just moving operations and will hire new workers in the new location to replace the old ones they laid off. But whether they are moving or downsizing, it should be called a layoff, because most of their affected employees are losing their jobs as a result.
The story of SC's director Todd Papy what info came from there is that he didn't want to relocate to the UK, and what ended up happening is SQ42's director became SC's director, followed by him leaving the company.
Reasonably layoffs wouldn't be aimed at directors, which makes this make more sense that the UK relocation for Todd at least, was a deal breaker.
Mass lay-offs across the entire gaming industry, people being forced to return to the office. CIG is the only culprit. /eye roll
I get the CIG witch hunt is alive and well and mostly based on wild conjecture but damn, this is a real stretch even for the typical posters here. The professionally ignorant, obsessively ill-informed, malcontents that inhabit these forums.
What is happening is CEOs are seeing that a large portion of employees being allowed to 'Work from home" don't. If you want to cry about CIG missing deadlines, it's not just them or even the gaming industry that is having issues with this.
Working from home certainly fosters a great work/life balance mainly because most people don't work, or work at far reduced efficiency. While I get the vast majority of the posters here do not care for facts, the fact is the policies that many companies put in place due to the plannedemic are simply money-sink due to lack of productivity.
It is a step in the right direction to trim fat (and while I agree the timeline published, if believable, was purely designed to force people out) and reduce the work-from-home privilege.
As for SC, consolidating offices is a good idea, especially as someone pointed out with the UK giving such heavy tax breaks.
What is even more hilarious is people screaming for a livable wage for fast food workers and then crying to the stars when the prices of everything go up. /smh
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Mass lay-offs across the entire gaming industry, people being forced to return to the office. CIG is the only culprit. /eye roll
CIG is not the only studio to have lay offs but they are the only studio to try and cover it up.
They are the only studio to tell employees that they could keep their jobs if they moved to a different continent with days notice.
Also, if an employee refuses to change location to Manchester they wouldn't technically be laid off they would be marked as voluntary quitting.
And all this just to scam some more tax breaks because this scam is run by scammers.
Yeah, layoffs suck, but they happen. The manner of this particular layoff is what's being called into question. With some words from those impacted to back it up.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Mass lay-offs across the entire gaming industry, people being forced to return to the office. CIG is the only culprit. /eye roll
CIG is not the only studio to have lay offs but they are the only studio to try and cover it up.
They are the only studio to tell employees that they could keep their jobs if they moved to a different continent with days notice.
Also, if an employee refuses to change location to Manchester they wouldn't technically be laid off they would be marked as voluntary quitting.
And all this just to scam some more tax breaks because this scam is run by scammers.
Yeah, layoffs suck, but they happen. The manner of this particular layoff is what's being called into question. With some words from those impacted to back it up.
There's worse manners of being laid off, one is to be "furloughed."
Crop Circle Games just used this trick recently.
Kotaku spoke to one person familiar with the situation who explained that “just under 50” people were affected. But staff weren’t technically laid off. Instead, they have allegedly been furloughed because the company can’t afford to pay their severance. Crop Circle Games was founded in 2022 by former Undead Labs
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Bad CIG and Roberts...should've had a party and closed an entire studio instead of asking a couple of dev's to relocate !
Thank god we have the e-batman squadron protecting the gaming industry peasants...
Bonus irony points for coming from the same crowd that attacked CIG for building cool studios, getting ergonomic chairs and providing quality fresh coffe to it's devs.
Well, they have to be. CIG needs the Kool Aid swilling cultists to run damage control for them because they obviously dont have the money to do it themselves.
Comments
So if you want to quibble whether large scale and mass dismissal are equivalent you go knock yourself out.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
English is not my mother language, but as far I underrstand a mass dismissal does not require large scale on the context of layoffs, it implies that there's a larger number of employees being let go simultaneously.
To what may be 1 or 2 a week, can be 10 or 20 at once, isn't that on itself be a mass dismissal?
And the dictionary definition: relating to, done by, or affecting large numbers of people or things.
But if this is the hill you wanna focus on... go ahead. Ill just wait to see the MMORPG article when it comes out.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
On a studio of 200, if 20 let are let go on layoffs, that can be seen as a mass layoff but it's a 10% cut.
Otherwise a "large number" wouldn't be the 10%, but a "larger than normal". The layoffs around labeled as mass layoffs have effectively represented a small fraction of the workforce.
People say "relocation ain't real" but the thing that CIG did, on the past years, was downsize gamedev positions on the US while they've grown their other studios, especially the UK one:
If it wasn't for that, you'd figure "oh they just downsizing", but if one office downsizes and the other grows... they're moving the positions (even if they don't move the people).
But the trend as the graph there shows, is that they been slowly but surely removing dev positions in the US despite growing totals every year.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Idk what is the fishy thing, is there supposed to be a bigger truth here? CIG closing doors quietly and running away with all the money?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Well with that much I agree. I do not think CIG needs to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest studio in gaming working on a single game to pull off SC.
There's a saying in gaming about too many cooks in the kitchen, only some areas benefit from that.
But I do underrstand these moves of them because moving positions isolated throughout multiple studios, and centralizing them especially in the UK studio, to me simply makes sense, even if they do it for cuttting costs there can't be a more efficient structure than people working together in the same place (and timezone!)
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I've seen this story on repeat on these waves of layoffs around gaming since last year, companies generally rather agressive, short notices, it's a pretty sad reality, even when management quells concerns of layoffs then they still happen anyway.
The downsize on those gamedev US teams has been progressive, it may be that the prospect of having an US employee move to the UK is by nature almost null that they've just been building those teams on offices like the UK, conduct the necessary knowledge transfer and when the dev is laid off there was already an active replacement in place.
That's what I think been happening, the financial numbers also sustain that they are in need to conduct cost cutting, it feels they did overreach on growth, as a company of this scale even with the huge amount of money they make the costs are also insanely high.
When I heard over 1,100 employees after Turbulent aquisition I was already saying last year expecting this year to see layoffs. The company has been increasing costs on the order of dozens of millions per year, sooner or later the income wouldn't be able to cope with it, now it's time for financial discipline; which is not outright a bad thing as that puts pressure on fullfilling deliveries, taking schedules more seriously and focusing dev efficiency.
It may be that they're just moving operations and will hire new workers in the new location to replace the old ones they laid off. But whether they are moving or downsizing, it should be called a layoff, because most of their affected employees are losing their jobs as a result.
The story of SC's director Todd Papy what info came from there is that he didn't want to relocate to the UK, and what ended up happening is SQ42's director became SC's director, followed by him leaving the company.
Reasonably layoffs wouldn't be aimed at directors, which makes this make more sense that the UK relocation for Todd at least, was a deal breaker.
I get the CIG witch hunt is alive and well and mostly based on wild conjecture but damn, this is a real stretch even for the typical posters here. The professionally ignorant, obsessively ill-informed, malcontents that inhabit these forums.
What is happening is CEOs are seeing that a large portion of employees being allowed to 'Work from home" don't. If you want to cry about CIG missing deadlines, it's not just them or even the gaming industry that is having issues with this.
Working from home certainly fosters a great work/life balance mainly because most people don't work, or work at far reduced efficiency. While I get the vast majority of the posters here do not care for facts, the fact is the policies that many companies put in place due to the plannedemic are simply money-sink due to lack of productivity.
It is a step in the right direction to trim fat (and while I agree the timeline published, if believable, was purely designed to force people out) and reduce the work-from-home privilege.
As for SC, consolidating offices is a good idea, especially as someone pointed out with the UK giving such heavy tax breaks.
What is even more hilarious is people screaming for a livable wage for fast food workers and then crying to the stars when the prices of everything go up. /smh
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Yeah, layoffs suck, but they happen. The manner of this particular layoff is what's being called into question. With some words from those impacted to back it up.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Crop Circle Games just used this trick recently.
Kotaku spoke to one person familiar with the situation who explained that “just under 50” people were affected. But staff weren’t technically laid off. Instead, they have allegedly been furloughed because the company can’t afford to pay their severance. Crop Circle Games was founded in 2022 by former Undead Labs
https://kotaku.com/game-industry-layoffs-how-many-2024-unity-twitch-1851155818
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thank god we have the e-batman squadron protecting the gaming industry peasants...
Bonus irony points for coming from the same crowd that attacked CIG for building cool studios, getting ergonomic chairs and providing quality fresh coffe to it's devs.
Well, they have to be. CIG needs the Kool Aid swilling cultists to run damage control for them because they obviously dont have the money to do it themselves.