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Why Grind? The psychology and culture of repetitive and uninteresting gameplay | MMORPG.com
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Why Grind? The psychology and culture of repetitive and uninteresting gameplay | MMORPG.com
Philip takes a closer look at the grind central to pretty much every MMORPG out there, where its origins lie, and whether it's good overall.
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I haven't played MMORPGs in a while because the developers create gameplay loops, RNG loot treadmills, and thinly veiled attempts to keep you logged in doing meaningless tasks. They're basically made for braindead people who are willing to waste their time collecting meaningless pixels and grinding the same content ad nauseum.
I think the future of MMORPGs needs to be easy to pick up and play activities with the expectation that people will come and go as content is released. Charge what you need for content packs and expansions to be profitable. I liked Destiny (1, not 2) and think it was a step forward for this genre, although I wouldn't define it as a MMORPG in the purist traditional sense.
Then comes the issue of grinding as such, which can have completely different reasons, from being pushed to grind by the way the game is designed (unable to perform properly without rare and expensive consumables), grinding as a mindless background process while you do other stuff (watch videos or just relax after a tough day) or pure grind to slowly and extremely tediously raise your level or skill. Perhaps some of the more autistic gamers find enjoyment in that, but for the rest it's hardly fulfilling.
Two of those three are bad game design, plain and simple. The third is pretty much a non-issue, since it's done almost as a meditation while you are actually doing (and focusing on) other stuff.
RNG has always been awful game design. No matter if its RNG gear drops or mats to allow you to substantially up your performance. Grind is its one of its obvious results and just shows where the games either take bad shortcuts or don't aspire to anything much and go with the least work or creativity necessary.
In its defense, I find it relaxing - are more entertaining than TV.
I found it relaxing solo and fun with a group. Especially if there is a possibility of wiping if people make mistakes.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
An important piece of the puzzle that nearly everyone ignores when they complain about grind is the inclination for players to tie themselves to the fastest, most efficient route in pursuit of these incremental goals. Most of the time, the efficient route is also the safest and most boring. Much of the time, it's not even that much faster then playing the game normally. Still, the vast majority of players choose to do it the mind-numbing way, complaining about grind all the while.
While the video game dnd may be the first video game to allow and encourage grind, I think it's important to peel back one additional layer. The video game dnd was based on the tabletop RPG Dungeons & Dragons, and it is the slavish adherence to the level-based vertical progression of the tabletop game that creates the perceived need for grind in the first place.
In short, levels are the true villain here. You see far fewer complaints about grind in games with a more horizontal approach, but most AAA developers (especially in the high-cost realm of MMOs) are too risk-averse to try a design that is generally viewed as uncharted territory.
If the grind were more on my terms, say needing to invest 8 hours in a game over the course of a week, I could find that because it's flexible. Maybe this Tuesday I'm open and can knock out 3 of those hours. Maybe next week Tuesday is booked, but I can get it done Wednesday. I have the time, it's just not in these contiguous, predictable blocks.
Ultimately it's when I hit that wall of being unable to make meaningful progress in an MMO that I pull the ripcord and I'm out.
I will say I'm interested at least in what WoW is saying about The War Within... that they're keeping the solo player in mind. If that's more than just lip service, then yah I'll sign back up. However, they're going to need to spell out in pretty specific terms what they mean before I go preorder anything. I'm highly dubious with a tiny shred of hope.
I speak for myself, that I'd trudge through the muck to get to the prize (strength, loot, etc). Eventually, when the boring repetitive meaningless crap becomes too much, I eventually leave the game for others. Perhaps other people do the same.
I enjoy games like Diablo 3, and other ARPG's that are interesting and have fun classes to play and tinker with; but eventually it becomes pointless. Some people grind it out to get to the top of the charts. That isn't my interest.
I do think that the "grind" is just the devs keeping it simple and saving on labor, instead of being innovative. What else can they invent? I think we've seen it all. (I could be wrong) The only thing that changes is UI/UX and the technology behind it.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
Let's take WoW for example. If your goal is to get better gear, you could either partake in PvP, Mythic+, Raiding, Crafting, and Delves in the near future. Unless we are counting the act of playing the game and pressing buttons as a repetitive task in and of itself.
The definition from the Wikipedia article you cited comes from a 2007 Gamasutra article that was primarily advocating to include different venues to progress your character. As opposed to killing boars repeatedly ad nauseam. So that makes me wonder if the foundation of the discussion can still be applied under the same lenses.
That aside, I think what people are ultimately looking for is a persistent world where they can progress their character and have a certain amount of agency for self-expression. That, in my opinion, is the ultimate spirit for "grinding". To stand out, to see your character get stronger and to feel good about it. Whether these tasks are repetitive or not isn't as relevant as that.
Whereas say, in a strategy RPG, I abhore grinding. It's why Disgaea doesn't quite click with me.
If you were unemployed or college student, you had all the time in the world to play Time Sink games. I was both of those! Name me a Video Game that you are not repeating any effort in order to achieve a common goal? The term Grind and Repetitive are over used words for folks who do not understand character development or progression in an MMORPG game. Now, all it has created are folks crying over Predatory business models, selling resources for the exact thing folks would be farming for! You cannot have it both ways.
We also have so many great games I can't even stick to one anymore!
I recall sitting in one spot in Everquest and grinding all day long. It was fine because we chatted a lot and it was fun to talk and the fights were just a break in between chats. It can be numbing and rote. I guess it was something you just accepted in the older games and didn't overthink the mechanic much.
It's not just levels or proficiency we do it in all types of games. It is disguised better in some but quest grinding is still grinding. When you need more reputation to buy something is a grind too. Just trying to get over a gate in content is a grind. Levels are grinds. Even horizontal progressions are grinds. They all require some form of repetition. You cannot escape it in its myriad of forms. If you look at any gaming there is some form of grind in it. I just think the better disguised or entertaining forms are the least egregious of them. You cannot escape it even in real life. We live a life of grinds. Going to work, making dinner and even just getting ready everyday is a grind because it is repetitious. How can we escape that in games when our whole existence is a grind? The best thing we can hope for is variety in the grind.
I have a confession to make, I was one of those highly agreeable WoW players, not in Arkansas but here in the UK. I couldn't even do PvP, what was nice about PvP? I had to enter a support group for really agreeable people, you get taught to stop nodding all the time and saying yes. For me the hardest thing was losing that permanent easy going smile I always had. After two years therapy I was able to go back to WoW and kick the f***ing butt of those horde guys like we are supposed to!
To me? It's alien + braindead + pointless.
1) Many players find it relaxing to do repetitive tasks with small incremental changes.
For example:
One of the worst things, is trying to learn a new games Graphical User Interface, combat style etc... once people are familiar they can just relax and chill on gameplay.
High stress, new environments are usually only good for short periods of time.
Its a Balancing Act for Devs.
2) When grouping, if a game is very complex, with lots of new unfamiliar information coming non-stop, then there is little time to converse with friends in a chat.
Doing things that are comfortable and familiar, while in discord/chat with friends, allows for engaging socialization.
Add in some occasional chaos to keep things spicy, but not too much that people cant converse.
[*]Replace the word 'reading' with 'grinding'.
Fishing on Gilgamesh since 2013
Fishing on Bronzebeard since 2005
Fishing in RL since 1992
Born with a fishing rod in my hand in 1979
Endgame is pretty meaningful if you play a game where only a sliver of the overall content available is still meaningful to you and you don't like any of what is.