Raph has also quite literally said that you can find or settle on planets that have zero PvP. But thats not good enough. Nope, you need an entire separate game system run in parallel to the main one.
I mean, come on. Enough is enough here. Just stop.
YUP, a completely separate server is what is needed for PVE players.
Your entire point that this game requires only 1 server is LOL. Here you are contorting yourself all in a pretzel trying to defend this gankfest system.
NOTHING is preventing them from making a separate universe for PVE players. The PVE playerbase is huge, and not doing so it moronic.
We all know if the USA passed a law saying USA players had to have their own server, then the very next day Raph would have 2 servers.
The only reason they are not giving PVE players a server is because its an obvious bait and switch. Been there done that and we all see through it.
Even DAOC had PVE servers. Nothing prevents a game from having PVP and PVE servers that are completely separate other than Devs that try to bait in PVE players as targets with no other options.
The only reason they are not giving PVE players a server is because its an obvious bait and switch. Been there done that and we all see through it.
This cannot be a bait and switch as the game hasn't even been released yet. You cannot even buy a founder's pack or any of that noise. Nobody is getting ripped off here.
It looks like Raph is more than willing to go into detail about how the system will work so I don't think anyone is being "lured" or "tricked".
I'll read the PvP rules and if I don't like them, I'll not buy the game. Seems pretty simple.
Raph has also quite literally said that you can find or settle on planets that have zero PvP. But thats not good enough. Nope, you need an entire separate game system run in parallel to the main one.
I mean, come on. Enough is enough here. Just stop.
YUP, a completely separate server is what is needed for PVE players.
Your entire point that this game requires only 1 server is LOL. Here you are contorting yourself all in a pretzel trying to defend this gankfest system.
NOTHING is preventing them from making a separate universe for PVE players. The PVE playerbase is huge, and not doing so it moronic.
We all know if the USA passed a law saying USA players had to have their own server, then the very next day Raph would have 2 servers.
The only reason they are not giving PVE players a server is because its an obvious bait and switch. Been there done that and we all see through it.
Even DAOC had PVE servers. Nothing prevents a game from having PVP and PVE servers that are completely separate other than Devs that try to bait in PVE players as targets with no other options.
Wow. The whole premise of the game is that there are no servers. Just one huge universe. With various planets and systems that will all be unique and run differently. But they should chuck that out the window because.. you don’t like it? Why don’t you do everyone, including yourself a favor and move along to the next thing to hate without actually reading up on it?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Raph has also quite literally said that you can find or settle on planets that have zero PvP. But thats not good enough. Nope, you need an entire separate game system run in parallel to the main one.
I mean, come on. Enough is enough here. Just stop.
YUP, a completely separate server is what is needed for PVE players.
Your entire point that this game requires only 1 server is LOL. Here you are contorting yourself all in a pretzel trying to defend this gankfest system.
NOTHING is preventing them from making a separate universe for PVE players. The PVE playerbase is huge, and not doing so it moronic.
We all know if the USA passed a law saying USA players had to have their own server, then the very next day Raph would have 2 servers.
The only reason they are not giving PVE players a server is because its an obvious bait and switch. Been there done that and we all see through it.
Even DAOC had PVE servers. Nothing prevents a game from having PVP and PVE servers that are completely separate other than Devs that try to bait in PVE players as targets with no other options.
Wow. The whole premise of the game is that there are no servers. Just one huge universe. With various planets and systems that will all be unique and run differently. But they should chuck that out the window because.. you don’t like it? Why don’t you do everyone, including yourself a favor and move along to the next thing to hate without actually reading up on it?
Not to nitpik, but what exactly do you think that "one huge universe with various planets and systems that will all be unique and run diofferently" will be existing on? Air?
If the PvP is a tagging system with robots to enforce the law, you can see all kinds of potential issues. The only way to set things up fairly while still doing PvP proud is to have separate zones for PvP. Let the PvE guys build and whatever to their hearts content but if a zone has a skull and crossbones flag on it you know what you are getting. That set up would vary as we may be dealing with shards or "servers" etc. Just don't "cross the streams".
Raph has also quite literally said that you can find or settle on planets that have zero PvP. But thats not good enough. Nope, you need an entire separate game system run in parallel to the main one.
I mean, come on. Enough is enough here. Just stop.
YUP, a completely separate server is what is needed for PVE players.
Your entire point that this game requires only 1 server is LOL. Here you are contorting yourself all in a pretzel trying to defend this gankfest system.
NOTHING is preventing them from making a separate universe for PVE players. The PVE playerbase is huge, and not doing so it moronic.
We all know if the USA passed a law saying USA players had to have their own server, then the very next day Raph would have 2 servers.
The only reason they are not giving PVE players a server is because its an obvious bait and switch. Been there done that and we all see through it.
Even DAOC had PVE servers. Nothing prevents a game from having PVP and PVE servers that are completely separate other than Devs that try to bait in PVE players as targets with no other options.
Wow. The whole premise of the game is that there are no servers. Just one huge universe. With various planets and systems that will all be unique and run differently. But they should chuck that out the window because.. you don’t like it? Why don’t you do everyone, including yourself a favor and move along to the next thing to hate without actually reading up on it?
Not to nitpik, but what exactly do you think that "one huge universe with various planets and systems that will all be unique and run diofferently" will be existing on? Air?
What's that? A server, you say?
Then copy it and turn off PvP.
It's fairly obvious that the goal is one universe that is shared and explored by all. Not duplicates and different servers that one joins and leaves. It's one of the foundational selling points in the sales pitch. Literally included in the second paragraph on both Steam and their website and also prominently answered in the FAQ.
I guess I never thought that the word UNIverse was one that needed an explanation. But hey, you learn something new every day I guess. But again, just in case somehow after all of this you still do not understand, here is another copy and paste from the FAQ:
Q. DOES THIS GAME WORLD HAVE SHARDS/SERVERS?
A. This world is not divided into shards. Every planet and space zone is unique. It takes place in one logical universe. We all play together.
We. All. Play. Together.
Simple concept? Right?
Now you can dislike the concept. But that's literally a foundational principle of this game. Now they "may" have to bend due to latency and actually break the universe into a multiverse to have regional experiences, but that's not the hope. The dream is that you can find YOUR niche in the universe. The place that appeals to YOU, while co-existing with other people, in other systems and planets who set other rules.
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If the PvP is a tagging system with robots to enforce the law, you can see all kinds of potential issues. The only way to set things up fairly while still doing PvP proud is to have separate zones for PvP. Let the PvE guys build and whatever to their hearts content but if a zone has a skull and crossbones flag on it you know what you are getting. That set up would vary as we may be dealing with shards or "servers" etc. Just don't "cross the streams".
I don't know if it will show up with a skull and crossbones flag, but the goal is to allow the inhabitants to create the rules by which each location lives by. From building rights, to PvP:
Vincevega2008
•
7d ago
Will PVP be in-game and if so will it be full loot?
RaphKoster
OP
•
7d ago
We have a lot of design work to do on PvP yet, and it's one of the things that we want to discuss carefully with the community. We are starting out by trying to get the PvE aspect right. Bear in mind that the living world means there are a lot of ways to grief others with world sim features -- like, what if you collapse a cliff on their house? Etc. So we want to make sure we solve all those edge cases before we add yet more ways for players to do harm to one another.
But broadly speaking, the plan is that PvP is zone based. If you want your planet to be PvP, the planetary government players set up can vote for it to be that way.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If the PvP is a tagging system with robots to enforce the law, you can see all kinds of potential issues. The only way to set things up fairly while still doing PvP proud is to have separate zones for PvP. Let the PvE guys build and whatever to their hearts content but if a zone has a skull and crossbones flag on it you know what you are getting. That set up would vary as we may be dealing with shards or "servers" etc. Just don't "cross the streams".
Exactly. Have some zones/planets that are PvE only, and they can't suddenly change to PvP where everybody gets their stuff that they built ruined.
Make some areas that have both. I used to farm mobs in the PvP areas in DAOC just for the added thrill of maybe getting attacked by another player. Anybody remember Darkness Falls? It could change hands and you'd suddenly be facing enemies. But you knew that going in.
If there is any form of non-consensual PvP that ppl cannot opt out of, the griefers will find a way to ruin the game and most players will quit. If that is the kind of game Raph wants to make then he should say so.
I think player defined zones is an interesting concept. I like to dabble in PvP from time to time, but I like the option of living without it for entire play sessions.
As long as it is clear what zone you're in, or about to enter, and get to decide there is no real issue here.
Brainy is correct in that often times developers do try to lure in PvE players with extra drops or rare resources in PvP zones. People who suggest those approaches fail to understand the nature of the problem and I don't play those games. However, if you've entire planets that are PvE I don't see where resources restrictions would apply.
(Raph) : But broadly speaking, the plan is that PvP is zone based. If you want your planet to be PvP, the planetary government players set up can vote for it to be that way.
That sounds fine unless they can also vote to change it. You settle on a PvE planet, suddenly a band of griefers manages to "change the rules" after you've built your dream castle. Now it's a PvP planet and you will be ganked and driven off.
(Raph) : But broadly speaking, the plan is that PvP is zone based. If you want your planet to be PvP, the planetary government players set up can vote for it to be that way.
That sounds fine unless they can also vote to change it. You settle on a PvE planet, suddenly a band of griefers manages to "change the rules" after you've built your dream castle. Now it's a PvP planet and you will be ganked and driven off.
That is in essence just another form of PvP.
If the team cannot anticipate these kinds of actions, then the game will fail anyways.
I think player defined zones is an interesting concept. I like to dabble in PvP from time to time, but I like the option of living without it for entire play sessions.
As long as it is clear what zone you're in, or about to enter, and get to decide there is no real issue here.
Brainy is correct in that often times developers do try to lure in PvE players with extra drops or rare resources in PvP zones. People who suggest those approaches fail to understand the nature of the problem and I don't play those games. However, if you've entire planets that are PvE I don't see where resources restrictions would apply.
Lure? I really doubt it.
How about there are drops in dangerous zones and if a person wants those drops they can:
go in with their guild and get them go in by themselves and hopefully they can get in and out quickly. barter for those who are willing to be in that zone and get them.
That's a far healthier and more appropriate way to look at it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
(Raph) : But broadly speaking, the plan is that PvP is zone based. If you want your planet to be PvP, the planetary government players set up can vote for it to be that way.
That sounds fine unless they can also vote to change it. You settle on a PvE planet, suddenly a band of griefers manages to "change the rules" after you've built your dream castle. Now it's a PvP planet and you will be ganked and driven off.
That is in essence just another form of PvP.
If the team cannot anticipate these kinds of actions, then the game will fail anyways.
My thought is that there is a grace period and a warning update.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
(Raph) : But broadly speaking, the plan is that PvP is zone based. If you want your planet to be PvP, the planetary government players set up can vote for it to be that way.
That sounds fine unless they can also vote to change it. You settle on a PvE planet, suddenly a band of griefers manages to "change the rules" after you've built your dream castle. Now it's a PvP planet and you will be ganked and driven off.
That is in essence just another form of PvP.
If the team cannot anticipate these kinds of actions, then the game will fail anyways.
My thought is that there is a grace period and a warning update.
Or a "Constitution" that needs X% to agree change the rules.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I've seen this exact intent expressed in FO (and other games) frequently.
In FO the players complained of the lack of action in PvP zones, so the developers responded by increasing the drop rate for some rare items. Clearly, the intent is to convince people who normally wouldn't want to risk PvP to venture into the zone. I've seen many players suggest the "free candy" approach more times than I can count.
I fully agree with your list of non PvP ways to achieve those items, and I applaud the design goal of encouraging markets and the striking of deals; however, that puts the game in the tricky place of giving exclusive access to some of the more desirable content to PvP players - which seems wrong to me for reasons I've a hard time articulating.
I guess what bothers me in PvE players often end up with gated content whereas the PvP player is comfortable with the entire map.
I'd suggest exploring a solution where "blood stained" players (PVP types) have an additional risk in the PvE portions of the map, such that they don't want to go there and have items they need from there for which they must trade. There would be nothing stopping them from going there, it would just be riskier. <-- this illustrates my point, I think, and why I've a hangup with some PvP area designs.
I'd suggest exploring a solution where "blood stained" players (PVP types) have an additional risk in the PvE portions of the map, such that they don't want to go there and have items they need from there for which they must trade. There would be nothing stopping them from going there, it would just be riskier. <-- this illustrates my point, I think, and why I've a hangup with some PvP area designs.
One could say that "raiding" or "locking items" behind "forced PvE" is the equivalent. Some PvP folks simply hate the concept of "wasting" hours killing mindless PvE mobs in the hope that some important item for their build will drop. But if they want to play a game that has this mechanism, they have to suck it up and do it.
I personally think it's all ludicrous. We simply have to stop expecting every game to be the perfect fit for every player. Its a recipe for disaster.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'd suggest exploring a solution where "blood stained" players (PVP types) have an additional risk in the PvE portions of the map, such that they don't want to go there and have items they need from there for which they must trade. There would be nothing stopping them from going there, it would just be riskier. <-- this illustrates my point, I think, and why I've a hangup with some PvP area designs.
One could say that "raiding" or "locking items" behind "forced PvE" is the equivalent. Some PvP folks simply hate the concept of "wasting" hours killing mindless PvE mobs in the hope that some important item for their build will drop. But if they want to play a game that has this mechanism, they have to suck it up and do it.
I personally think it's all ludicrous. We simply have to stop expecting every game to be the perfect fit for every player. Its a recipe for disaster.
Well, this is why the discussion is rather moot.
With hundreds of games on the market, you can basically skip to your end game of choice.
The idea that someone is being forced into something (non-consent PvP) is idiotic.
I'd suggest exploring a solution where "blood stained" players (PVP types) have an additional risk in the PvE portions of the map, such that they don't want to go there and have items they need from there for which they must trade. There would be nothing stopping them from going there, it would just be riskier. <-- this illustrates my point, I think, and why I've a hangup with some PvP area designs.
One could say that "raiding" or "locking items" behind "forced PvE" is the equivalent. Some PvP folks simply hate the concept of "wasting" hours killing mindless PvE mobs in the hope that some important item for their build will drop. But if they want to play a game that has this mechanism, they have to suck it up and do it.
I personally think it's all ludicrous. We simply have to stop expecting every game to be the perfect fit for every player. Its a recipe for disaster.
Well, this is why the discussion is rather moot.
With hundreds of games on the market, you can basically skip to your end game of choice.
The idea that someone is being forced into something (non-consent PvP) is idiotic.
Fully agree. Yet here we are...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'd suggest exploring a solution where "blood stained" players (PVP types) have an additional risk in the PvE portions of the map, such that they don't want to go there and have items they need from there for which they must trade. There would be nothing stopping them from going there, it would just be riskier. <-- this illustrates my point, I think, and why I've a hangup with some PvP area designs.
One could say that "raiding" or "locking items" behind "forced PvE" is the equivalent. Some PvP folks simply hate the concept of "wasting" hours killing mindless PvE mobs in the hope that some important item for their build will drop. But if they want to play a game that has this mechanism, they have to suck it up and do it.
I personally think it's all ludicrous. We simply have to stop expecting every game to be the perfect fit for every player. Its a recipe for disaster.
Well, this is why the discussion is rather moot.
With hundreds of games on the market, you can basically skip to your end game of choice.
The idea that someone is being forced into something (non-consent PvP) is idiotic.
Fully agree. Yet here we are...
I thought this was a discussion of what kind of game they were developing, where they asked for input and are considering different ideas. Nobody is being forced into anything.
If the PvP is a tagging system with robots to enforce the law, you can see all kinds of potential issues. The only way to set things up fairly while still doing PvP proud is to have separate zones for PvP. Let the PvE guys build and whatever to their hearts content but if a zone has a skull and crossbones flag on it you know what you are getting. That set up would vary as we may be dealing with shards or "servers" etc. Just don't "cross the streams".
Nah, PvP is like yeast in bread or creamer in tea or coffee. You can't separate them even if you have "safe zones". PvP affects balance, loot distribution, and everything else about a game. Albion has "safe zones" with grade Z mats in them. Have to go to the PvP zones for good mats. It's smoke and mirrors to get players engaged in content they don't want to participate in.
Since they've announced this will be a PvP game, the only logical choice PvE players have is to not play at all. Find another game. This isn't 2001. There are so many choices out there for us. Don't waste time on games that can't be honest about what they are and are not.
If the PvP is a tagging system with robots to enforce the law, you can see all kinds of potential issues. The only way to set things up fairly while still doing PvP proud is to have separate zones for PvP. Let the PvE guys build and whatever to their hearts content but if a zone has a skull and crossbones flag on it you know what you are getting. That set up would vary as we may be dealing with shards or "servers" etc. Just don't "cross the streams".
Nah, PvP is like yeast in bread or creamer in tea or coffee. You can't separate them even if you have "safe zones". PvP affects balance, loot distribution, and everything else about a game. Albion has "safe zones" with grade Z mats in them. Have to go to the PvP zones for good mats. It's smoke and mirrors to get players engaged in content they don't want to participate in.
Since they've announced this will be a PvP game, the only logical choice PvE players have is to not play at all. Find another game. This isn't 2001. There are so many choices out there for us. Don't waste time on games that can't be honest about what they are and are not.
I think what I enjoy is rather niche.
I like to PvE 99% of the time but I do enjoy sneaking into PvP zones and getting a load of stuff out of there. I enjoy a turn at being the mouse in a cat vs. mouse scenario - I just like to be able to turn that off for most of my playtime.
I am a bit surprised to see so much focus on the PvP thing, when it's really not core to the game...
For many of us this is not our first rodeo. "It has PvP" without some pretty firm details on how that mode is segregated from PvE activities puts your game squarely in the "don't get your hopes us" category.
I'm rather surprised this confuses you. People not interested in non-consensual PvP don't want to have their time wasted by somebody else looking to get their jollies off on ruining your night.
But the government! is still a bit too vague particularly when there are no details on how planets are acquired or maintained and if they need to be defended from PvP'ers
I'll restate what we have said already:
PvE first
Any PvP will be completely opt-in
It would be zone-based, so there can be areas with and without, clearly signposted outside
A guild can control a planet and set rules. We haven't gone into details on this and won't just yet, but things like banning people would be on the list.
Bottom line: the goal is that people not interested in non-consensual PvP should be safe.
I am a bit surprised to see so much focus on the PvP thing, when it's really not core to the game...
For many of us this is not our first rodeo. "It has PvP" without some pretty firm details on how that mode is segregated from PvE activities puts your game squarely in the "don't get your hopes us" category.
I'm rather surprised this confuses you. People not interested in non-consensual PvP don't want to have their time wasted by somebody else looking to get their jollies off on ruining your night.
But the government! is still a bit too vague particularly when there are no details on how planets are acquired or maintained and if they need to be defended from PvP'ers
I'll restate what we have said already:
PvE first
Any PvP will be completely opt-in
It would be zone-based, so there can be areas with and without, clearly signposted outside
A guild can control a planet and set rules. We haven't gone into details on this and won't just yet, but things like banning people would be on the list.
Bottom line: the goal is that people not interested in non-consensual PvP should be safe.
The real question is what, if any game mechanics or rewards will be used to "entice" players to opt into PVP?
Will players suffer from a degraded experience (no access to valuable resources is the usual limitation) should they decide to opt out of PVP? (Outside of not being able to visit said areas of course)
There are several MMOs where players could opt out of PVP such as Albion Online or BDO but user has to accept some pretty severe limitations on progression or wealth.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
YUP, a completely separate server is what is needed for PVE players.
Your entire point that this game requires only 1 server is LOL. Here you are contorting yourself all in a pretzel trying to defend this gankfest system.
NOTHING is preventing them from making a separate universe for PVE players. The PVE playerbase is huge, and not doing so it moronic.
We all know if the USA passed a law saying USA players had to have their own server, then the very next day Raph would have 2 servers.
The only reason they are not giving PVE players a server is because its an obvious bait and switch. Been there done that and we all see through it.
Even DAOC had PVE servers. Nothing prevents a game from having PVP and PVE servers that are completely separate other than Devs that try to bait in PVE players as targets with no other options.
You cannot even buy a founder's pack or any of that noise.
Nobody is getting ripped off here.
It looks like Raph is more than willing to go into detail about how the system will work so I don't think anyone is being "lured" or "tricked".
I'll read the PvP rules and if I don't like them, I'll not buy the game.
Seems pretty simple.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What's that? A server, you say?
Then copy it and turn off PvP.
I guess I never thought that the word UNIverse was one that needed an explanation. But hey, you learn something new every day I guess. But again, just in case somehow after all of this you still do not understand, here is another copy and paste from the FAQ:
We. All. Play. Together.
Simple concept? Right?
Now you can dislike the concept. But that's literally a foundational principle of this game. Now they "may" have to bend due to latency and actually break the universe into a multiverse to have regional experiences, but that's not the hope. The dream is that you can find YOUR niche in the universe. The place that appeals to YOU, while co-existing with other people, in other systems and planets who set other rules.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Vincevega2008
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Make some areas that have both. I used to farm mobs in the PvP areas in DAOC just for the added thrill of maybe getting attacked by another player. Anybody remember Darkness Falls? It could change hands and you'd suddenly be facing enemies. But you knew that going in.
If there is any form of non-consensual PvP that ppl cannot opt out of, the griefers will find a way to ruin the game and most players will quit. If that is the kind of game Raph wants to make then he should say so.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
I like to dabble in PvP from time to time, but I like the option of living without it for entire play sessions.
As long as it is clear what zone you're in, or about to enter, and get to decide there is no real issue here.
Brainy is correct in that often times developers do try to lure in PvE players with extra drops or rare resources in PvP zones. People who suggest those approaches fail to understand the nature of the problem and I don't play those games. However, if you've entire planets that are PvE I don't see where resources restrictions would apply.
That is in essence just another form of PvP.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
go in by themselves and hopefully they can get in and out quickly.
barter for those who are willing to be in that zone and get them.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
My thought is that there is a grace period and a warning update.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
In FO the players complained of the lack of action in PvP zones, so the developers responded by increasing the drop rate for some rare items. Clearly, the intent is to convince people who normally wouldn't want to risk PvP to venture into the zone. I've seen many players suggest the "free candy" approach more times than I can count.
I fully agree with your list of non PvP ways to achieve those items, and I applaud the design goal of encouraging markets and the striking of deals; however, that puts the game in the tricky place of giving exclusive access to some of the more desirable content to PvP players - which seems wrong to me for reasons I've a hard time articulating.
I guess what bothers me in PvE players often end up with gated content whereas the PvP player is comfortable with the entire map.
I'd suggest exploring a solution where "blood stained" players (PVP types) have an additional risk in the PvE portions of the map, such that they don't want to go there and have items they need from there for which they must trade. There would be nothing stopping them from going there, it would just be riskier. <-- this illustrates my point, I think, and why I've a hangup with some PvP area designs.
I personally think it's all ludicrous. We simply have to stop expecting every game to be the perfect fit for every player. Its a recipe for disaster.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
With hundreds of games on the market, you can basically skip to your end game of choice.
The idea that someone is being forced into something (non-consent PvP) is idiotic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
I like to PvE 99% of the time but I do enjoy sneaking into PvP zones and getting a load of stuff out of there. I enjoy a turn at being the mouse in a cat vs. mouse scenario - I just like to be able to turn that off for most of my playtime.
So a pure PvE game doesn't quite do it for me.
Will players suffer from a degraded experience (no access to valuable resources is the usual limitation) should they decide to opt out of PVP? (Outside of not being able to visit said areas of course)
There are several MMOs where players could opt out of PVP such as Albion Online or BDO but user has to accept some pretty severe limitations on progression or wealth.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon