This sounds like a decision made in a boardroom with a whole bunch of people in suits that have not played an MMO outside of three or four FFA PVP ones and they asked "How do we get people to flag for PVP?". "Let's punish PVE players more!"
I think this goes back to the idea that PVP leads to increased content and longevity of a MMO. I have seen this discussed on these forums but its a complicated topic. I am not going to get into the weeds except to say - IMHO, punishing players is not the best way to draw in today's new gamer.
That's fine if the game is not for everyone. But when your design decisions keep many players away and 12-24 months after launch you are asking where are all the players and having subscriber number issues, please do not pretend we won't remember your bad design decisions. We will.
After playing so many games where the PvE players demand all the development budget for their PvE interests, its refreshing that someone with a vision doesn't care about appealing to the broadest community and instead is making a PvP game that they dreamt of when growing up. Now I get to hear the PvE players complain and try to bring AOC down but I think when it comes out, it will stick around.
Where are you seeing all of the PVE player demands?
Throne and Liberty - PVP game at heart New World - latest expansion has just one PVE raid and multiple changes for PVP including a FFA zone and where the highest tier content can be obtained.
Cozy MMOs I guess?
Its non stop everywhere I go. I have played Path of exile since closed alpha and that game is plagued by PvE players demanding PvP be phased out even though PvP was part of the original vision.
Its funny you mention new world because it was basically suppose to be a full loot KOS survival game to start.
Dark and darker is another game which mixes pvp and pve and its gross how the players treat the developers when they have stated their vision for the game over and over.
Diablo 4 is another example of a IP that has ALWAYS had PvP has now been reduced to an antiquated zone with no reason to be in it because all the other pve zone's drop rates have dwarfed its potential.
Diablo 3 cancelled pvp just a few months before releasing after being in development for almost a decade and had pvp announced and included in its core vision since the start.
I could keep going. It seems that any PvP game that also has PvE in it, I hear droves of people asking for the devs focus to be on PvE because its not League of Legends, therefor its not a PvP core game.
People with different desires will always try to sway a team into making a game aligned with their wants. More people are into PvE and single player games but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for PvP. Its just not he largest market.
I applaud Stephen for what hes doing, and of course we will hear the lame ass endless sentiment "Can't Wait to see how long their PvP vision lasts" implying it won't. You are entitled to your opinions but keep your misery and dreams of other peoples dreams failing on a leash.
I applaud what they're attempting to do at AoC and I hope it works!
However, in the games you cited, let's not pretend that market forces didn't come into play. The developers didn't see some PvE players crying on the forum and decide to radically alter the direction of the game without the cash incentives to back that up. They responded to the market.
The concerns over AoC is exactly because it is trying stuff that has been tried before, stuff that has failed, and here's to hoping they pull it off.
Steven has taken the things he loved from, I think, 5 different MMOs and mixed that with his node system he came up with. I Remeber some but not all of it. Liniage 2 he took Thier flagging system, KToR the crafting system and the list goes on. I hope it plays well together.
The game industry is too profit driven. If you are justifying altering the developers vision for the game they want to make, in order to appeal to larger demographics yielding better profit margins, then we should just stop making MMOs and everyone should just start creating Mobile games or fortnite clones.
I think AAA games will dwindle. I think the industry is over bloated and people are chasing previous year's profit margins. Developers like Iron Mace (Dark and darker) where the developers use their own gear, work out of a ju jitsu gym (pro bono until profits come in), and making games THEY personally want to play, will be the future. AAA will still exist but many companies will learn that proper management and delivering smaller, cheaper, more controlled projects will yield more profitable results.
Games won't dwindle so long as the "pay as much as you want" model is dominant.
The game industry is too profit driven. If you are justifying altering the developers vision for the game they want to make, in order to appeal to larger demographics yielding better profit margins, then we should just stop making MMOs and everyone should just start creating Mobile games or fortnite clones.
I think AAA games will dwindle. I think the industry is over bloated and people are chasing previous year's profit margins. Developers like Iron Mace (Dark and darker) where the developers use their own gear, work out of a ju jitsu gym (pro bono until profits come in), and making games THEY personally want to play, will be the future. AAA will still exist but many companies will learn that proper management and delivering smaller, cheaper, more controlled projects will yield more profitable results.
Actually sadly for most of us gamers they have already discovered the tactics employed by mobile games works extremely well. They are not going to give those up any time soon because it is making them money. Profit driven is what businesses are focused on.
All I can hope for is that somewhere in that calculation a good game is also delivered. When I see a new game I just check my hopes at the door and then pray that the monetary gouge isn't that bad and I can mostly ignore it and keep playing.
I suppose a developer with deep pockets can make any game they want because they're not focused on the profits but you are very naive to think things will change in the future. It will change but not for the better because the generation of players I am not a part of have already embraced the profit first mantra and have adapted. Most of them don't even blink at the cost of whaling and just get tutorials on youtube on how to get the most of the games with the least amount of money spent. Yeah those are very popular. That there is a perfect example of where gaming is at if we have to look up guides on how to play games without getting fleeced.
Games are also being shut down at alarming rates when they don't make enough or are not making staggering amounts quickly. MMORPGs are not cheap games so if you think a company can blithely continue without an eye to bringing in as many players as they can manage then prepare to be disappointed.
Comments
I think this goes back to the idea that PVP leads to increased content and longevity of a MMO. I have seen this discussed on these forums but its a complicated topic. I am not going to get into the weeds except to say - IMHO, punishing players is not the best way to draw in today's new gamer.
That's fine if the game is not for everyone. But when your design decisions keep many players away and 12-24 months after launch you are asking where are all the players and having subscriber number issues, please do not pretend we won't remember your bad design decisions. We will.
All I can hope for is that somewhere in that calculation a good game is also delivered. When I see a new game I just check my hopes at the door and then pray that the monetary gouge isn't that bad and I can mostly ignore it and keep playing.
I suppose a developer with deep pockets can make any game they want because they're not focused on the profits but you are very naive to think things will change in the future. It will change but not for the better because the generation of players I am not a part of have already embraced the profit first mantra and have adapted. Most of them don't even blink at the cost of whaling and just get tutorials on youtube on how to get the most of the games with the least amount of money spent. Yeah those are very popular. That there is a perfect example of where gaming is at if we have to look up guides on how to play games without getting fleeced.
Games are also being shut down at alarming rates when they don't make enough or are not making staggering amounts quickly. MMORPGs are not cheap games so if you think a company can blithely continue without an eye to bringing in as many players as they can manage then prepare to be disappointed.