Interview: Talking Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen's Early Access Launch With Creative Director Chris P

jenk3m

Vanguard SOH launched in 100 times better state than this. We have allowed game companies to get away with this crap. Pay to test a bare bone beta (i think it's an alpha but whatever)? Don't give them money it just emboldens them

skeaser

jenk3m said:

Vanguard SOH launched in 100 times better state than this. We have allowed game companies to get away with this crap. Pay to test a bare bone beta (i think it's an alpha but whatever)? Don't give them money it just emboldens them

I wanted to play it, I could afford it, so I bought it. Why is everyone so fired up about what other people do with their money? Do a lot of early access projects flop? Yes, but I would rather let a team try to build their vision without a big company backing them and forcing the "economic" decision every step of the way. It's a risk but occasionally the reward is worth it. The alternative is the only games that get made are backed by one of the big companies and we get more color-by-numbers schlock.

Brainy

Sovrath said:

If in 20 years they are still in alpha we know they have either extremely bad management and/ lack the funds to complete their game.

LOL and in 10 years we dont know that already?  Seriously?  It will take you another 20 years to figure that out?

Look I know and everyone else knows this game is complete garbage.

The only reason you and all the fanbois are not screaming off the rooftops on how awesome this game is right now, is you know it completely sucks.  Alpha, Beta, EA whatever, If it was a good game you would 100% be saying so, and you wouldnt worry about the state it was in to do it.

Its sucks, so you and the other fanbois instead of admitting that, want to dance around.

Game is garbage, its not going to be good EVER, end of story.

olepi

It has a very positive rating on Steam.

I remember the old days, played DAOC instead of EQ.

Hmmm ...

skeaser

Brainy said:

Sovrath said:

If in 20 years they are still in alpha we know they have either extremely bad management and/ lack the funds to complete their game.

LOL and in 10 years we dont know that already?  Seriously?  It will take you another 20 years to figure that out?

Look I know and everyone else knows this game is complete garbage.

The only reason you and all the fanbois are not screaming off the rooftops on how awesome this game is right now, is you know it completely sucks.  Alpha, Beta, EA whatever, If it was a good game you would 100% be saying so, and you wouldnt worry about the state it was in to do it.

Its sucks, so you and the other fanbois instead of admitting that, want to dance around.

Game is garbage, its not going to be good EVER, end of story.

I don't know that it's complete garbage, I've been enjoying it and am looking forward to seeing it develop. Don't assume to speak for everyone, just because you don't like something doesn't make it a fact.

Kyleran

thalasd said:

I don't pay a company to test their software. I both alpha and beta tested EQ and was asked to do so, I did not have to pay them for the privilege.

Back in 1997 or so?  Times have changed so much since then.  GaaS instead of sub only, designs largely homoginized into what is now called standard theme parks, cash shops, loot boxes, pre-orders, early access, crowd funding, the list goes on and on

I steer clear of most early access, preferring to play only "finished" games, but that means I don't get to play most of the currently in development MMORPGs.

I won't pay to test but then I wouldn't test even if invited to for free as I prefer to experience games after they've been more fully fleshed out, even a year or so after launch.

Sovrath

Brainy said:

LOL and in 10 years we dont know that already?  Seriously?  It will take you another 20 years to figure that out?

Look I know and everyone else knows this game is complete garbage.

The only reason you and all the fanbois are not screaming off the rooftops on how awesome this game is right now, is you know it completely sucks.  Alpha, Beta, EA whatever, If it was a good game you would 100% be saying so, and you wouldnt worry about the state it was in to do it.

Its sucks, so you and the other fanbois instead of admitting that, want to dance around.

Game is garbage, its not going to be good EVER, end of story.

Fanboy? I along with others do point out that not only, after all this time, is it missing features let alone small things like customization ( most likely to bad management and not having a clear development path,) but I've said many times I don't think it's going to be finished and launch 1.0. If that's a fanboy then they need better fans.

What we have is progress. That's what you ignore. They have added things over the year and have launched in a playable state on steam to mostly favorable reviews. "If" they can sustain this and "if" they can get other funding then maybe it will launch.

In which case what would 10 years matter? Heck, Darkfall launched after 10 years.

Also, I don't think the game is garbage at all, I just think it's a game that has had a horrible development cycle.

But you do "you" and harbor all that anger and make your posts, I'm sure, given that I don't think they are going to get enough money, that you will be right one of these days and you can "dance" on the game's grave.

For the benefit of the developers and the players that like it, I hope that's not the case.

Slapshot1188

Sovrath said:

Brainy said:

Sovrath said:

If in 20 years they are still in alpha we know they have either extremely bad management and/ lack the funds to complete their game.

LOL and in 10 years we dont know that already?  Seriously?  It will take you another 20 years to figure that out?

Look I know and everyone else knows this game is complete garbage.

The only reason you and all the fanbois are not screaming off the rooftops on how awesome this game is right now, is you know it completely sucks.  Alpha, Beta, EA whatever, If it was a good game you would 100% be saying so, and you wouldnt worry about the state it was in to do it.

Its sucks, so you and the other fanbois instead of admitting that, want to dance around.

Game is garbage, its not going to be good EVER, end of story.

Fanboy? I along with others can point out that not only, after all this time, is it missing features let alone small things like customization most likely to bad management and not having a clear development path, but I've said many times I don't think it's going to be finished and launch 1.0. If that's a fanboy then they need better fans.

What we have is progress. They have added things over the year and have launched on steam to mostly favorable reviews. "If" they can sustain this and "if" they can get other funding then maybe it will launch.

Also, I don't think the game is garbage at all, I just think it's a game that has had a horrible development cycle.

But you do "you" and harbor all that anger and make your posts, I'm sure, given that I don't think they are going to get enough money, that you will be right one of these days and you can "dance" on the game's grave.

For the benefit of the developers and the players that like it, I hope that's not the case.

I think this is important.

You kind of liked what you experienced and see reason for hope.
I absolutely HATED when I experienced and saw nothing promising at all.

You have never said my view was invalid.
I have never said yours was invalid.

People like different things.

We can argue in good faith about whether there is a path forward, about whether the company has been misleading or wasteful, about if mechanic X or Y is better. Heck we can even argue about whether your or my opinion is the majority and if there is enough support. But we can't really argue about you liking something that I do not like.

And at the end of the day if we all had the same opinions there wouldn't be anything to ever discuss, which would be a really boring world.

Sovrath

Slapshot1188 said:

Sovrath said:

Brainy said:

Sovrath said:

If in 20 years they are still in alpha we know they have either extremely bad management and/ lack the funds to complete their game.

LOL and in 10 years we dont know that already?  Seriously?  It will take you another 20 years to figure that out?

Look I know and everyone else knows this game is complete garbage.

The only reason you and all the fanbois are not screaming off the rooftops on how awesome this game is right now, is you know it completely sucks.  Alpha, Beta, EA whatever, If it was a good game you would 100% be saying so, and you wouldnt worry about the state it was in to do it.

Its sucks, so you and the other fanbois instead of admitting that, want to dance around.

Game is garbage, its not going to be good EVER, end of story.

Fanboy? I along with others can point out that not only, after all this time, is it missing features let alone small things like customization most likely to bad management and not having a clear development path, but I've said many times I don't think it's going to be finished and launch 1.0. If that's a fanboy then they need better fans.

What we have is progress. They have added things over the year and have launched on steam to mostly favorable reviews. "If" they can sustain this and "if" they can get other funding then maybe it will launch.

Also, I don't think the game is garbage at all, I just think it's a game that has had a horrible development cycle.

But you do "you" and harbor all that anger and make your posts, I'm sure, given that I don't think they are going to get enough money, that you will be right one of these days and you can "dance" on the game's grave.

For the benefit of the developers and the players that like it, I hope that's not the case.

I think this is important.

You kind of liked what you experienced and see reason for hope.
I absolutely HATED when I experienced and saw nothing promising at all.

You have never said my view was invalid.
I have never said yours was invalid.

People like different things.

We can argue in good faith about whether there is a path forward, about whether the company has been misleading or wasteful, about if mechanic X or Y is better. Heck we can even argue about whether your or my opinion is the majority and if there is enough support. But we can't really argue about you liking something that I do not like.

And at the end of the day if we all had the same opinions there wouldn't be anything to ever discuss, which would be a really boring world.

And that's the thing, I'd never tell someone they "should" or "shouldn't" like a thing or that they shouldn't be irritated, in this case, of that it's 10 years on and this is what they have to show for it.

Heck, Vanguard was five years. It didn't' launch in the best state but I think it had more to it than Pantheon. Same developer so "what happened?" 

I did enjoy Pantheon for what it was. Not what it should be. I'll be logging in again today because I have fun. If it launches then bonus. if not, well, it's a shame.

Kyleran

Sovrath said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Sovrath said:

Brainy said:

Sovrath said:

If in 20 years they are still in alpha we know they have either extremely bad management and/ lack the funds to complete their game.

LOL and in 10 years we dont know that already?  Seriously?  It will take you another 20 years to figure that out?

Look I know and everyone else knows this game is complete garbage.

The only reason you and all the fanbois are not screaming off the rooftops on how awesome this game is right now, is you know it completely sucks.  Alpha, Beta, EA whatever, If it was a good game you would 100% be saying so, and you wouldnt worry about the state it was in to do it.

Its sucks, so you and the other fanbois instead of admitting that, want to dance around.

Game is garbage, its not going to be good EVER, end of story.

Fanboy? I along with others can point out that not only, after all this time, is it missing features let alone small things like customization most likely to bad management and not having a clear development path, but I've said many times I don't think it's going to be finished and launch 1.0. If that's a fanboy then they need better fans.

What we have is progress. They have added things over the year and have launched on steam to mostly favorable reviews. "If" they can sustain this and "if" they can get other funding then maybe it will launch.

Also, I don't think the game is garbage at all, I just think it's a game that has had a horrible development cycle.

But you do "you" and harbor all that anger and make your posts, I'm sure, given that I don't think they are going to get enough money, that you will be right one of these days and you can "dance" on the game's grave.

For the benefit of the developers and the players that like it, I hope that's not the case.

I think this is important.

You kind of liked what you experienced and see reason for hope.
I absolutely HATED when I experienced and saw nothing promising at all.

You have never said my view was invalid.
I have never said yours was invalid.

People like different things.

We can argue in good faith about whether there is a path forward, about whether the company has been misleading or wasteful, about if mechanic X or Y is better. Heck we can even argue about whether your or my opinion is the majority and if there is enough support. But we can't really argue about you liking something that I do not like.

And at the end of the day if we all had the same opinions there wouldn't be anything to ever discuss, which would be a really boring world.

And that's the thing, I'd never tell someone they "should" or "shouldn't" like a thing or that they shouldn't be irritated, in this case, of that it's 10 years on and this is what they have to show for it.

Heck, Vanguard was five years. It didn't' launch in the best state but I think it had more to it than Pantheon. Same developer so "what happened?" 

I did enjoy Pantheon for what it was. Not what it should be. I'll be logging in again today because I have fun. If it launches then bonus. if not, well, it's a shame.

Vanguard had a fixed budget and developers were always working on the end product. Brad even found another studio to fund an additional year or so of development before launch.

Pantheon has always been underfunded and developers spent most of their early years building tech demos to try and secure additional funding rather than build the actual game.

This resulted in at least 3 major restarts including the graphics overhaul a year or so back.

Brad died in Nov 2019 which had to negatively impact their momentum ...and remember what March 2020 brought us? 

Finally, Covid-19 definitely threw the world a curve though I think this team was mostly working remotely before then.

Brainy

Part of the issue is that I don’t believe them when they say they like the game as it is now. It’s just wishful thinking—pure hopium.

If this game stays exactly the same for another year, there’s zero chance those same people will still like it. What we have now is supper subpar, plain and simple.

They’re not enjoying what the game is; they’re projecting what they want it to become and convincing themselves they like it.

I’ve seen it so many times—people defending bad games, only to completely change their opinion within a year. Just look back at the Embers thread: plenty of players were saying, "I’m level 5 and loving it, exactly the game I wanted." By level 20, those same people were calling the game trash. And the game itself didn’t change—what changed was their perception. Reality set in, and they realized there wasn’t some great experience waiting for them further along. Once the mystery faded, the hopium ran out.

skeaser

Brainy said:

Part of the issue is that I don’t believe them when they say they like the game as it is now. It’s just wishful thinking—pure hopium.

If this game stays exactly the same for another year, there’s zero chance those same people will still like it. What we have now is supper subpar, plain and simple.

They’re not enjoying what the game is; they’re projecting what they want it to become and convincing themselves they like it.

I’ve seen it so many times—people defending bad games, only to completely change their opinion within a year. Just look back at the Embers thread: plenty of players were saying, "I’m level 5 and loving it, exactly the game I wanted." By level 20, those same people were calling the game trash. And the game itself didn’t change—what changed was their perception. Reality set in, and they realized there wasn’t some great experience waiting for them further along. Once the mystery faded, the hopium ran out.

So you just assume we're liars. Cool. I also assume you're lying and are deeply in love with the game. Debates are easy when you can just make up the other side's opinion for them.

Brainy

skeaser said:

Brainy said:

Part of the issue is that I don’t believe them when they say they like the game as it is now. It’s just wishful thinking—pure hopium.

If this game stays exactly the same for another year, there’s zero chance those same people will still like it. What we have now is supper subpar, plain and simple.

They’re not enjoying what the game is; they’re projecting what they want it to become and convincing themselves they like it.

I’ve seen it so many times—people defending bad games, only to completely change their opinion within a year. Just look back at the Embers thread: plenty of players were saying, "I’m level 5 and loving it, exactly the game I wanted." By level 20, those same people were calling the game trash. And the game itself didn’t change—what changed was their perception. Reality set in, and they realized there wasn’t some great experience waiting for them further along. Once the mystery faded, the hopium ran out.

So you just assume we're liars. Cool. I also assume you're lying and are deeply in love with the game. Debates are easy when you can just make up the other side's opinion for them.

Sort of, yes. I think you might be having a bit of fun, but you're conflating that with the quality of the game. Just because parts of the game are enjoyable doesn't mean the game, as a whole, is good.

Let’s use an analogy: imagine a wooden go-kart that relies on gravity for power. If someone tried to claim this was equivalent to a race car, it would be laughable. Imagine buying a race car and being handed this instead—what a joke that would be!

Sure, you might have some fun pulling it up the hill and racing down a few times. But the novelty wears off quickly. Let’s not pretend this is just the early stage of some future stock car. It's time to be real and call it what it is.

If you’re having a few hours of fun, that’s fine. Babies have fun with rattles, and restaurants hand out crayons and paper to keep kids entertained. But that doesn’t make those things great products.

skeaser

Brainy said:

skeaser said:

Brainy said:

Part of the issue is that I don’t believe them when they say they like the game as it is now. It’s just wishful thinking—pure hopium.

If this game stays exactly the same for another year, there’s zero chance those same people will still like it. What we have now is supper subpar, plain and simple.

They’re not enjoying what the game is; they’re projecting what they want it to become and convincing themselves they like it.

I’ve seen it so many times—people defending bad games, only to completely change their opinion within a year. Just look back at the Embers thread: plenty of players were saying, "I’m level 5 and loving it, exactly the game I wanted." By level 20, those same people were calling the game trash. And the game itself didn’t change—what changed was their perception. Reality set in, and they realized there wasn’t some great experience waiting for them further along. Once the mystery faded, the hopium ran out.

So you just assume we're liars. Cool. I also assume you're lying and are deeply in love with the game. Debates are easy when you can just make up the other side's opinion for them.

Sort of, yes. I think you might be having a bit of fun, but you're conflating that with the quality of the game. Just because parts of the game are enjoyable doesn't mean the game, as a whole, is good.

Let’s use an analogy: imagine a wooden go-kart that relies on gravity for power. If someone tried to claim this was equivalent to a race car, it would be laughable. Imagine buying a race car and being handed this instead—what a joke that would be!

Sure, you might have some fun pulling it up the hill and racing down a few times. But the novelty wears off quickly. Let’s not pretend this is just the early stage of some future stock car. It's time to be real and call it what it is.

If you’re having a few hours of fun, that’s fine. Babies have fun with rattles, and restaurants hand out crayons and paper to keep kids entertained. But that doesn’t make those things great products.

I started to read this and stopped. I'm not reading that. Do you realize how asinine it is that you are trying not only to correct opinions but tell people that what they think isn't really what they think? How egotistical are you that you think that EVERYONE has to have the same experience as you?

Brainy

skeaser said:

Brainy said:

skeaser said:

Brainy said:

Part of the issue is that I don’t believe them when they say they like the game as it is now. It’s just wishful thinking—pure hopium.

If this game stays exactly the same for another year, there’s zero chance those same people will still like it. What we have now is supper subpar, plain and simple.

They’re not enjoying what the game is; they’re projecting what they want it to become and convincing themselves they like it.

I’ve seen it so many times—people defending bad games, only to completely change their opinion within a year. Just look back at the Embers thread: plenty of players were saying, "I’m level 5 and loving it, exactly the game I wanted." By level 20, those same people were calling the game trash. And the game itself didn’t change—what changed was their perception. Reality set in, and they realized there wasn’t some great experience waiting for them further along. Once the mystery faded, the hopium ran out.

So you just assume we're liars. Cool. I also assume you're lying and are deeply in love with the game. Debates are easy when you can just make up the other side's opinion for them.

Sort of, yes. I think you might be having a bit of fun, but you're conflating that with the quality of the game. Just because parts of the game are enjoyable doesn't mean the game, as a whole, is good.

Let’s use an analogy: imagine a wooden go-kart that relies on gravity for power. If someone tried to claim this was equivalent to a race car, it would be laughable. Imagine buying a race car and being handed this instead—what a joke that would be!

Sure, you might have some fun pulling it up the hill and racing down a few times. But the novelty wears off quickly. Let’s not pretend this is just the early stage of some future stock car. It's time to be real and call it what it is.

If you’re having a few hours of fun, that’s fine. Babies have fun with rattles, and restaurants hand out crayons and paper to keep kids entertained. But that doesn’t make those things great products.

I started to read this and stopped. I'm not reading that. Do you realize how asinine it is that you are trying not only to correct opinions but tell people that what they think isn't really what they think? How egotistical are you that you think that EVERYONE has to have the same experience as you?

I just think there are people that will completely BS people with their agenda.  Wouldnt surprise me to find out you been on the pantheon forums fanboying this game for years, saying how great it will be.  Now its hear and its garbage, you are going to tell people its not.  Then eventually the avalanche of negativity will come down on this game, and you will go away and hide.
Seen this so many times.

Sovrath

Brainy said:

Part of the issue is that I don’t believe them when they say they like the game as it is now. It’s just wishful thinking—pure hopium.

If this game stays exactly the same for another year, there’s zero chance those same people will still like it. What we have now is supper subpar, plain and simple.

They’re not enjoying what the game is; they’re projecting what they want it to become and convincing themselves they like it.

I’ve seen it so many times—people defending bad games, only to completely change their opinion within a year. Just look back at the Embers thread: plenty of players were saying, "I’m level 5 and loving it, exactly the game I wanted." By level 20, those same people were calling the game trash. And the game itself didn’t change—what changed was their perception. Reality set in, and they realized there wasn’t some great experience waiting for them further along. Once the mystery faded, the hopium ran out.

If the game stays "just the same" a year from now then a lot of people, most people, will have gone through all the content.

I had a blast today until I got lost and ended up running for my life (which is fun) jumping off a cliff to evade attackers, had a smidgen of health after that only to be finished by some thing at the bottom. All fun.

But eventually I will go through all the content. They need to have an aggressive release schedule in order to keep people engaged.

Brainy

Sovrath said:

Brainy said:

Part of the issue is that I don’t believe them when they say they like the game as it is now. It’s just wishful thinking—pure hopium.

If this game stays exactly the same for another year, there’s zero chance those same people will still like it. What we have now is supper subpar, plain and simple.

They’re not enjoying what the game is; they’re projecting what they want it to become and convincing themselves they like it.

I’ve seen it so many times—people defending bad games, only to completely change their opinion within a year. Just look back at the Embers thread: plenty of players were saying, "I’m level 5 and loving it, exactly the game I wanted." By level 20, those same people were calling the game trash. And the game itself didn’t change—what changed was their perception. Reality set in, and they realized there wasn’t some great experience waiting for them further along. Once the mystery faded, the hopium ran out.

If the game stays "just the same" a year from now then a lot of people, most people, will have gone through all the content.

I had a blast today until I got lost and ended up running for my life (which is fun) jumping off a cliff to evade attackers, had a smidgen of health after that only to be finished by some thing at the bottom. All fun.

But eventually I will go through all the content. They need to have an aggressive release schedule in order to keep people engaged.

Lets be real, 95-98% of the people will never make it through the little content they have.  The game is not good enough to bother.  Its not a content problem its a quality problem.

You are right about an aggressive release schedule, they would need that just to fix the existing bugs and trash systems in place.

They wont have an aggressive release schedule, that much is certain.

Sovrath

Brainy said:

Sovrath said:

Brainy said:

Part of the issue is that I don’t believe them when they say they like the game as it is now. It’s just wishful thinking—pure hopium.

If this game stays exactly the same for another year, there’s zero chance those same people will still like it. What we have now is supper subpar, plain and simple.

They’re not enjoying what the game is; they’re projecting what they want it to become and convincing themselves they like it.

I’ve seen it so many times—people defending bad games, only to completely change their opinion within a year. Just look back at the Embers thread: plenty of players were saying, "I’m level 5 and loving it, exactly the game I wanted." By level 20, those same people were calling the game trash. And the game itself didn’t change—what changed was their perception. Reality set in, and they realized there wasn’t some great experience waiting for them further along. Once the mystery faded, the hopium ran out.

If the game stays "just the same" a year from now then a lot of people, most people, will have gone through all the content.

I had a blast today until I got lost and ended up running for my life (which is fun) jumping off a cliff to evade attackers, had a smidgen of health after that only to be finished by some thing at the bottom. All fun.

But eventually I will go through all the content. They need to have an aggressive release schedule in order to keep people engaged.

Lets be real, 95-98% of the people will never make it through the little content they have.  The game is not good enough to bother.  Its not a content problem its a quality problem.

You are right about an aggressive release schedule, they would need that just to fix the existing bugs and trash systems in place.

They wont have an aggressive release schedule, that much is certain.

Well “intend” to go through with it because I do have think it’s good enough to bother.

I’ll have to join a guild but so far I’ve been running into very nice people.

It’s a friggin’’ breath of fresh air to have people helping you or vice versa while out in the world. 

I don’t get that with Elder Scrolls Online I can tell ya!

Digdugger

I've been a member of forums for a long time.  For some reason I get banned even when I'm not posting.  I've been playing Pantheon, and I've been enjoying it.  It's also getting good reviews.  I don't understand how so many people who don't play have negative things to say, while those playing have positive things to say.

Scot

Digdugger said:

I've been a member of forums for a long time.  For some reason I get banned even when I'm not posting.  I've been playing Pantheon, and I've been enjoying it.  It's also getting good reviews.  I don't understand how so many people who don't play have negative things to say, while those playing have positive things to say.

Welcome to the forums!

Well by default if you are played and you are still playing you probably are going to have good things to say about it or you would be gone. Whereas armchair gaming is as old as armchair sports, even if you don't play it you comment. While I have particular respect for players comments I do think they can be overly invested especially if they have put money in and find it harder to see the wood for the trees. So both comments from those both in and outside the game are essential.

Digdugger

Scot said:

Digdugger said:

I've been a member of forums for a long time.  For some reason I get banned even when I'm not posting.  I've been playing Pantheon, and I've been enjoying it.  It's also getting good reviews.  I don't understand how so many people who don't play have negative things to say, while those playing have positive things to say.

Welcome to the forums!

Well by default if you are played and you are still playing you probably are going to have good things to say about it or you would be gone. Whereas armchair gaming is as old as armchair sports, even if you don't play it you comment. While I have particular respect for players comments I do think they can be overly invested especially if they have put money in and find it harder to see the wood for the trees. So both comments from those both in and outside the game are essential.

Agree, both sides, but there are an almost overwhelming amount of games that get negative feedback on Steam.  Precisely because they paid for what they think is garbage.  Someone on one of these threads even said he was surprised that it was getting positive.  Armchair quarterbacking is definitely a tradition.  I just think that this time there seems to be an unusually high divergence of opinion in the case of Pantheon.

Kyleran

Digdugger said:

Scot said:

Digdugger said:

I've been a member of forums for a long time.  For some reason I get banned even when I'm not posting.  I've been playing Pantheon, and I've been enjoying it.  It's also getting good reviews.  I don't understand how so many people who don't play have negative things to say, while those playing have positive things to say.

Welcome to the forums!

Well by default if you are played and you are still playing you probably are going to have good things to say about it or you would be gone. Whereas armchair gaming is as old as armchair sports, even if you don't play it you comment. While I have particular respect for players comments I do think they can be overly invested especially if they have put money in and find it harder to see the wood for the trees. So both comments from those both in and outside the game are essential.

Agree, both sides, but there are an almost overwhelming amount of games that get negative feedback on Steam.  Precisely because they paid for what they think is garbage.  Someone on one of these threads even said he was surprised that it was getting positive.  Armchair quarterbacking is definitely a tradition.  I just think that this time there seems to be an unusually high divergence of opinion in the case of Pantheon.

Games with a lot of hype get quite a few buyers doing a lookie loo, who quickly refund and slag on them if they don't like what they see.

Pantheon benefits from it's own obscurity, most who purchase are actively looking for a MMORPG which promotes old school grouping and interdependence more than anything else, which it apparently deliverd on.

So you get a largely positive response on Steam where only people who buy the game can post a review, but in other forums like reddit or here the comments will likely be far more negative.

I've never been a communist, but I've read enough about it to dislike it.  Ive never eaten sushi, but the mere thought of eating raw meat from creatures which breath in their own crap is disgusting. 

Same with games, I don't necessarily have to play one to dislike it.  (I only play an average of 3-5 games per year) I've read enough, seen the videos about Pantheon to comment and despite the grouping mechanics which I applaud, there is far more to criticize unfortunately.

Thing is, don't take any of this personally, you didn't make the game, none of the criticism is directed at you and no one says you can't enjoy yourself, keep on you doing you.  

Welcome to the forums, home of cranky old bittervets still hanging around waiting for a new MMORPG that probably will never happen.

Cheers.

Brainy

Digdugger said:

Agree, both sides, but there are an almost overwhelming amount of games that get negative feedback on Steam.  Precisely because they paid for what they think is garbage.  Someone on one of these threads even said he was surprised that it was getting positive.  Armchair quarterbacking is definitely a tradition.  I just think that this time there seems to be an unusually high divergence of opinion in the case of Pantheon.

Steam's review system reveals that most games receive positive feedback, contrary to the perception that negative ratings dominate the platform. In fact, the majority of titles achieve a "Very Positive" rating or higher.

It’s amusing when circular arguments are made to defend games like Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. The claim that a game is "good" simply because it has a "Very Positive" rating is weak at best. Let's look at a truly comparable example:

• Banana – 82% positive reviews
• Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen – 81% positive reviews

Banana is a game where you just click a banana. That's it. Yet, by customer ratings, it scores higher than Pantheon.

Moreover, Banana has over 85,000 reviews, compared to Pantheon’s mere 1,500 reviews. The disparity in review volume matters. Games with fewer reviews often start with inflated ratings due to a loyal core fanbase. As more players (beyond the hardcore supporters) share their opinions, the score typically adjusts downward, as already noted by Kyleran.

For example, Banana initially had a much higher rating but declined as its popularity grew.

Terazon

Brainy said:

Digdugger said:

Agree, both sides, but there are an almost overwhelming amount of games that get negative feedback on Steam.  Precisely because they paid for what they think is garbage.  Someone on one of these threads even said he was surprised that it was getting positive.  Armchair quarterbacking is definitely a tradition.  I just think that this time there seems to be an unusually high divergence of opinion in the case of Pantheon.

Steam's review system reveals that most games receive positive feedback, contrary to the perception that negative ratings dominate the platform. In fact, the majority of titles achieve a "Very Positive" rating or higher.

It’s amusing when circular arguments are made to defend games like Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. The claim that a game is "good" simply because it has a "Very Positive" rating is weak at best. Let's look at a truly comparable example:

• Banana – 82% positive reviews
• Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen – 81% positive reviews

Banana is a game where you just click a banana. That's it. Yet, by customer ratings, it scores higher than Pantheon.

Moreover, Banana has over 85,000 reviews, compared to Pantheon’s mere 1,500 reviews. The disparity in review volume matters. Games with fewer reviews often start with inflated ratings due to a loyal core fanbase. As more players (beyond the hardcore supporters) share their opinions, the score typically adjusts downward, as already noted by Kyleran.

For example, Banana initially had a much higher rating but declined as its popularity grew.

Banana is also one of the top 20 'games' played...er engaged with on Steam.  

Sovrath

Brainy said:

Sort of, yes. I think you might be having a bit of fun, but you're conflating that with the quality of the game. Just because parts of the game are enjoyable doesn't mean the game, as a whole, is good.

I don't think "most" people are saying that the current game is "perfect" and I do think that there is a good number of people who are fine enjoying it for what it is now but who do want more in the future.

I'll say that I played Elder Scrolls Online on and off since launch and the beginning was enjoyable and the rest is just more of the same. And that's a game with gobs of money and was released in a finished state.

I play stints from time to time but I was playing it the other day and after a few minutes logged off and logged back into Pantheon.

That's not because Pantheon is a better game because of features or completeness but because it's a better "type" of game for me.

I'll also state that I've started playing "9 Lives" and I find the world amazing. This is not only an unfinished game but it will never be finished. Yet I choose to play it and have every intention of playing as much of it as possible.

It's ok to enjoy something for "what it is." You can call me a liar all you want but I would say, once again, that you are a "black and white" thinker and can only see the world in a way that fits your views.