Originally posted by Azirophos Originally posted by Elnator I suspect that MMORPG's just aren't a genre that suits you.
I second that. EVE (or any MMORPG) is not for you.
MMORPGs (even the one filled with "content") require imagination and active use by the player for the game to stay interesting over a longer period of time. To take EVE as example again: This game just provides you with the tools. The "story, the "content" you have to make. That is not laziness or incompetence by CCP. By putting players on the forefront of content creation it is THEM who shape the universe and THEM who are the ones influencing everything. There is no other game where players can shape the universe to this extent.
And everything you do in EVE should be a building block for what you want to do with the game.
Travelling is such a '"building block". But I usually never get bored. I chat with corpm8s, check the markets of the systems where I get through, check ship statistics, organize my stuff, think about possible ship setups, etc. Or if in safe space I just go afk, for a healthy doese of RL.
I agree that this is one way of running an MMO. But some players like to have a large ammt of the content already there that they can participate in. EVE is a very timesink intensive game. Other than the timesinks (TRAVEL... LOOTING... The months long time it takes to be competitive with vets) I loved it.
No offense to anyone but it SHOULD be fun to solo in an MMO if that's what someone chooses to do. It shouldn't be geared around soloing, by any means, after all it's an MMO... but there are times when even the most group-loving players want or need to solo... and those times should still be fun.
Again... as I said in my review of the game: EVE is a wonderful game but it's not for everyone. The things I personally don't like about it other players will like.
EVE as it currently is designed is a great niche Sci Fi game that caters to exactly what it's players enjoy.
For me: If it were JUST the travel delays it wouldn't bother me. But the INCREDIBLE time it takes just to even loot cargo is just silly. It is 'logical' but it certainly isn't 'fun' that it takes 30 minutes+ just to loot the cargo after finishing a level 2 or 3 mission.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Eve isn't for everyone. The very same factors that attract one kind of player are what put off another. Complex thinking, tactics and economics such as time invested in travelling vs. ISK made on the run are the hallmarks of this game. It is not an FPS and if someone wants to jump in, run aorund adn kill people with an equal chance as those who've been playing a year and then shove off again after half an hour, well I say go play Unreal Tournament.
Long travel times is one of the biggest points of contention. On the one had it can be boring as all hell if you need to go 20 jumps in a slow ship. This makes you stop and think "Why am I going there necessarily? Is it important enough to warrant it?" Perhaps you heard through your Alliance channel that some War targets were prime for a fight. Maybe you spotted an incredibly lucrative trade on the market. It's a decision that needs thought, with a trade off either way. Maybe there's enough of your Corp at the battle to handle it. Perhaps there's a less profitable but much quicker trade route. Eve is not a simple solo game and if you try to play it that way (mission grinding with the *same* agent day in day out and nothing more) then you will get bored.
Space is... well ti's space-like. Funnily enough. it's big and black with lots of stars, planets, gas clouds and other things. It's also VERY BIG. This means that yes, you will see that same gas cloud stretching for several light years and maybe even 2 or 3 systems in the constellation. That's like complaining that you're running through a huge forest in another MMO and it's filled with hundreds of trees for miles around. If your graphics card and drivers are good enough, you can see immense detail on the planets and moons. Cities, lightning storms - they even slowly rotate about an axis. Complexes, deadspace mission areas and even random ares of regular systems also have additional and unique features. Complex gas clouds that rotate and swirl or buildings that emit EM fields. Again, this sort of fine detail isn't to everyone's taste and if it grinds you down that much then EVE isn't a good game for you.
Originally posted by Dinion Sounds like you shouldn't even have started playing in the first place.You dismiss people who love the economics side of the game as "hardcore carebears", people who love the PvP are all gankers, you then trivialize EVE as simply a waiting game, which the same thing could be said about EVERYTHING. No I'm sorry, you haven't had some kind of amazing epiphany, you've simply just gone into it, nick picked and trivialized, until you got to the very basics, strippen away anything remotely complex, and decided no one should be having fun. If you don't like it that's great, but don't try to force your views on others, we're doing just fine enjoying the game.
What he said
If pitbulls could lock their jaw the first pitbull would still be hanging on
I for one, do like this game, for a number of reasons.
on/offline skill learning.
able to be whatever i want to be: miner, trader, manufacturer, pker
having betad , then played all the big mmorpg names out today( uo, eq,doac, swg, d&l atm, as well as some pure crap ones (horizons anyone?) I fond this game totally relaxing, no matter whatever i want to do on my playsession.
the orig poster claimed everything takes too long? maybe if you dont learn any skills, or learn how to play the game this could be true, but thats more a persons smartness than the game mechanics at work there.
The game is laid back for certain, but you can play hectic /stressful if you wish at any time you want.
I personally enjoy not staring at spawns for hours, doing impossible quests that take forever, and its nice to solo as much as you want, without it affecting your characters advancement.
having said that, there is a real focus on corps in this game, and those that make friends will have a far easier time of it imho.
If you find it boring, maybe you go play another game, for a game is what you make of it.
Man.. I get mostly angry when ppl that have played eve for what 10 days. And they talk like they have experienced everything eve have to offer. I got my first bs after a month. Even then I could hardly use it. A battleship is the backbone to everything in eve. After a month you haven't even experienced a desent battle most likely. I remember my first fleet battle in jnz nearly a year and a half ago. I was then 3 months old. My heart was pounding like hell. I've never had such an experiance in ANY other game. They just don't give you that kind of risk as in EVE. The effort you worked for the last 3 months can go up in matters of seconds. Hell.. It took me 1 year to get a general understanding what is drifting underneath the surface. The politics that dictates everything in eve. From who gets pounded where to who is able to buy what when. This is a totally player enviroment. And I mean total. But I ask you. Give me one online game that will stand the test of time better than eve. That have such an dedicated fanbase. Who love the game like no other. Becus the players who stay in eve. Know why this is the best game out there. There is no contest. Other games might have better grafhics, more npc stuff, better worlds, more stuff. But I assure you.. There are no grater player enviroment in any other game. There are none out there who give you this level of interaction whit your peers. On good and bad. So why make an online game if your not there for the interaction? Why not just stick to your normal single player games on your disconnected computer. Becus we're really here for interaction. To try our best against those bad mother f out there. Some you win. Many you lose. In my case.. the other way around.. WoW got nothing on us EVE'ers. ....
Its called something like regionalization, yes traveling is boring and long but it creates local markets instead of everybody just going to one place. Thats why you are able to buy things in low population far off areas at all, because people don't want to travel that distance.
second, you don't need t travel 20 jumps very often, if you are doing that daily then you are doing something wrong.
third, eve is what you make it, if you don't make an attempt to get involved with the story, the politics, the logistics, the pvp, the community etc. then you will get bored. Lastly, posting an anti-eve thread in an eve-online forum full of eve-lovers is . . . well . . . let's just say it rhymes with 'schlamebait'
oh and thanks, i'm sure your post opened all of our eyes. We thought we were having fun but really we weren't. I'm sure now tens of thousands of people, now with ignorant delusions of 'fun' lifted, will quit the game because of your fantastic contribution to this online community. and remember kids "Dude, it's space. Everywhere you go....it's space" don't be pulled into paying 15$ a month for a space game that has the nerve to be set in space.
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Azirophos Originally posted by Elnator I suspect that MMORPG's just aren't a genre that suits you.
I second that. EVE (or any MMORPG) is not for you.
MMORPGs (even the one filled with "content") require imagination and active use by the player for the game to stay interesting over a longer period of time. To take EVE as example again: This game just provides you with the tools. The "story, the "content" you have to make. That is not laziness or incompetence by CCP. By putting players on the forefront of content creation it is THEM who shape the universe and THEM who are the ones influencing everything. There is no other game where players can shape the universe to this extent.
And everything you do in EVE should be a building block for what you want to do with the game.
Travelling is such a '"building block". But I usually never get bored. I chat with corpm8s, check the markets of the systems where I get through, check ship statistics, organize my stuff, think about possible ship setups, etc. Or if in safe space I just go afk, for a healthy doese of RL.
I agree that this is one way of running an MMO. But some players like to have a large ammt of the content already there that they can participate in. EVE is a very timesink intensive game. Other than the timesinks (TRAVEL... LOOTING... The months long time it takes to be competitive with vets) I loved it.
No offense to anyone but it SHOULD be fun to solo in an MMO if that's what someone chooses to do. It shouldn't be geared around soloing, by any means, after all it's an MMO... but there are times when even the most group-loving players want or need to solo... and those times should still be fun.
Again... as I said in my review of the game: EVE is a wonderful game but it's not for everyone. The things I personally don't like about it other players will like.
EVE as it currently is designed is a great niche Sci Fi game that caters to exactly what it's players enjoy.
For me: If it were JUST the travel delays it wouldn't bother me. But the INCREDIBLE time it takes just to even loot cargo is just silly. It is 'logical' but it certainly isn't 'fun' that it takes 30 minutes+ just to loot the cargo after finishing a level 2 or 3 mission.
Games in general are timesinks at core. They keep us from doing meaningful things in life. We hang there before the computer (or a board) to get distracted from the outside world a bit. A discussion if that or that game is more of a time sink is totally needless.
EVE with its offline training and so many possible avenues of play caters to hardcore and casual gamers (which I would call myself), and in the end it is that what matters - no other game can claim to that to this extent. Everyone can finetune their time to play while still being competetive with their character.
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
I will take being bored in a game like this than a game with as much depth as a child swimming pool. You leave eve becuase its boring and then realize that no other game comes even close to Eve.
The rush... of traveling through 0.0.... nothing happens... you sweat as you are hauling your stuff between stations ... bloody corp relocating... and then boom! ...a pirate! No, two pirates! OMG!! Warp drive active! AACCCCTTITIIIIIVVVVEEEEE!!!
Travels in EVE are exciting IF you have the guts to play the game where it is risky. And where the kickback is real do some: and then some: and then some: and finally some and stop whining. Chicken.
The problem with Eve is the factors in which newbies can get involved.
Let me give you an example. I heard all about Shadowbane, and how it was gonna revolutionize everything. I wasn't normally interested in PvP, because it wasn't warfare; it was surprise gankiing, often of people with level differences so great that the ones being abused had ZERO chance of defending themselves.
So I tried it out on one of their free trials. And get told that you have to be at least level 20 to really seriously participate in the PvPing without being a joke. So I spent those seven days trying to level up, and realized I was in the same level treadmill as everything else.
Eve is beautiful, IMHO. Its a great concept. But, newbies have no way to really get involved except in the most indirect manner, and any "risks" they take are fully one-sided risks, as they have zero way of threatening those that threaten them.
Newbies need a way to get immersed in as deeply and quickly as possible. Thats the problem with any PvP system which has imbalancing factors such as levels, resources, etc. The newbie has no way of competing, and either has to play it safe until they can, or take risks that really has no real reward, and no risk for their potential adversaries.
One day, someone out there is gonna get it right. Until then....
Originally posted by Morfedel The problem with Eve is the factors in which newbies can get involved.
Let me give you an example. I heard all about Shadowbane, and how it was gonna revolutionize everything. I wasn't normally interested in PvP, because it wasn't warfare; it was surprise gankiing, often of people with level differences so great that the ones being abused had ZERO chance of defending themselves. So I tried it out on one of their free trials. And get told that you have to be at least level 20 to really seriously participate in the PvPing without being a joke. So I spent those seven days trying to level up, and realized I was in the same level treadmill as everything else.
Eve is beautiful, IMHO. Its a great concept. But, newbies have no way to really get involved except in the most indirect manner, and any "risks" they take are fully one-sided risks, as they have zero way of threatening those that threaten them. Newbies need a way to get immersed in as deeply and quickly as possible. Thats the problem with any PvP system which has imbalancing factors such as levels, resources, etc. The newbie has no way of competing, and either has to play it safe until they can, or take risks that really has no real reward, and no risk for their potential adversaries. One day, someone out there is gonna get it right. Until then....
Absolute and definite bollocks. I moved out to 0.0 space the first week of playing eve. Joined a nice corp in the xetic federation and had great fun fending off pirates and enemies alike. In solo play, yes theres not much a new player can do but 90% of players in eve fly with a group. 20 new players in frigates can do nasty, nasty things. If you specialize your skills you can almost catch up to veterans in your first 1-2 months with a 5% difference in some skills. 5% isnt much. Nowadays people just train skills to level 5 so that they can use tech 2 ships and modules.
So if you feel overwhelmed by veterans, i suggest you join a 0.0 corp today, jump into a frigatte and get familliar with pvp while at the same time, specializing your character. Today, most people fly tech 2 frigates since they are a blast to fly, so i would reccoment those.
It will take you roughly 1 month to be able to fly them, and about 2 months to fly them effectively. During that time, fly tech 1 frigates (They are getting a boost soon) and get familliar with frigate pvp. Heed my advice and you will thank me in the future.
_____________________ I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
Originally posted by Morfedel The problem with Eve is the factors in which newbies can get involved.
Let me give you an example. I heard all about Shadowbane, and how it was gonna revolutionize everything. I wasn't normally interested in PvP, because it wasn't warfare; it was surprise gankiing, often of people with level differences so great that the ones being abused had ZERO chance of defending themselves. So I tried it out on one of their free trials. And get told that you have to be at least level 20 to really seriously participate in the PvPing without being a joke. So I spent those seven days trying to level up, and realized I was in the same level treadmill as everything else.
Eve is beautiful, IMHO. Its a great concept. But, newbies have no way to really get involved except in the most indirect manner, and any "risks" they take are fully one-sided risks, as they have zero way of threatening those that threaten them. Newbies need a way to get immersed in as deeply and quickly as possible. Thats the problem with any PvP system which has imbalancing factors such as levels, resources, etc. The newbie has no way of competing, and either has to play it safe until they can, or take risks that really has no real reward, and no risk for their potential adversaries. One day, someone out there is gonna get it right. Until then....
The waiting time for newbies is what keeps the community so great. The steep learning curve and the amount of time before you can really dive fully into the game keeps the children and idiots away. Even most of the pirates in this game, the people that are called scum and such, are cunning and smart. A game that relies as much on wits and quick thinking than ship setups or experiance.
Take a look at games like Wow. You join the game, and instantly what your doing is basicly what you will be doing until you reach endgame (add a few instances and some pointless Pvp and theres all of Wow has to offer you). Now take a look at the community. Wow has one of the most immature gaming communities out there. Everything about that game is pointless and the only reason so many people play it is becuase each time they hit a level they feel like they accomplished somthing. That feeling of leveling doesnt exist in eve, so they stay away.
I am trying the trial atm, and it looks pretty cool.. but the learning curve is pretty steep. i think i have been on the tutorial for hours now.. then my comp locked up lol .. i mean you jump into space with what seems like endless solar systems to go, i dont even know where to start lol.. and if some parts dont make 100% sense it seems like your already far too deep in lol
Originally posted by RabbidFerret Originally posted by Morfedel The problem with Eve is the factors in which newbies can get involved.
Let me give you an example. I heard all about Shadowbane, and how it was gonna revolutionize everything. I wasn't normally interested in PvP, because it wasn't warfare; it was surprise gankiing, often of people with level differences so great that the ones being abused had ZERO chance of defending themselves. So I tried it out on one of their free trials. And get told that you have to be at least level 20 to really seriously participate in the PvPing without being a joke. So I spent those seven days trying to level up, and realized I was in the same level treadmill as everything else.
Eve is beautiful, IMHO. Its a great concept. But, newbies have no way to really get involved except in the most indirect manner, and any "risks" they take are fully one-sided risks, as they have zero way of threatening those that threaten them. Newbies need a way to get immersed in as deeply and quickly as possible. Thats the problem with any PvP system which has imbalancing factors such as levels, resources, etc. The newbie has no way of competing, and either has to play it safe until they can, or take risks that really has no real reward, and no risk for their potential adversaries. One day, someone out there is gonna get it right. Until then....
The waiting time for newbies is what keeps the community so great. The steep learning curve and the amount of time before you can really dive fully into the game keeps the children and idiots away. Even most of the pirates in this game, the people that are called scum and such, are cunning and smart. A game that relies as much on wits and quick thinking than ship setups or experiance.
Take a look at games like Wow. You join the game, and instantly what your doing is basicly what you will be doing until you reach endgame (add a few instances and some pointless Pvp and theres all of Wow has to offer you). Now take a look at the community. Wow has one of the most immature gaming communities out there. Everything about that game is pointless and the only reason so many people play it is becuase each time they hit a level they feel like they accomplished somthing. That feeling of leveling doesnt exist in eve, so they stay away.
Insta-child block version 3.0
Agree but only to a point. That learning curve and time investment just to get to a moderately enjoyable level of gameplay also drives off a lot of high quality and intelligent players.
The bottom line is that EVE caters to a very niche market:
PVP gamers who have tons of patience.
The game is awesome but it's not for everyone. It's both a strength and a weakness of the game. Not good but not bad either. The game itself is quite excellent. Personally I play games to be entertained not so I can watch TV while I warp It's a mindset: My entertainment must entertain me or it's not worth my money. If I have to *find* ways to entertain myself while paying for a *game* then it's not worth my money.
Other people enjoy the realism of EVE. I do too but I don't have the patience to wait 1-2 months to reach a point where I can 'contribute' in PVP. And 6 months to be able to go head to head in combat is just too long.
Add to the fact that many Corps won't even let you join till you have over 1mil SP and it just makes it worse for new players. Tell me: How many of you that tout and holler at people to "join a good corp". Start listing good corps for new players that don't have a skill point requirement. Because, frankly, it's very hard to find them. I suspect I might have stayed with EVE if I could have found a "good corp" "that operates in 0.0" which didn't have a 1mil SP requirement.
Case in point: I have now posted here on the corp forum what I'm looking for in a corp. I posted something very similar a *month* ago on the EVE official forums and only 2 corps replied. And even the guy who is doing 'headhunting' services couldn't find a corp that would take a new player with less than 1mil skill points.
My account will remain inactive until someone can point me to a corp that meets the needs outlined in my post here in the corp forums. If someone can point me at one that meets the requirements I have then I will re-activate and give EVE another try.
Till then I stand by this statement: EVE is beautiful It's a great game but it's very hard to get into and only caters to some players. Most will find it boring but it is worth a free trial to see if it suits your playstyle. After 14 days you should know if it's for you or not.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I think your semi right. It's for intelligent pvp gamers whit mature attitude and time to play long hours.
If you lack either. You very quickly fall out. I don't say that your stupid if your not enjoying eve. What I'm saying is that you most likely lack one or more of these attributes. But I think you can enjoy eve even if you have just intelligence and a mature attitude whit some time to spear.
But even if you like it or not. Eve is massive. And it takes a sertain cunning mind to get ahead in it. An it's very much the survival of the fittest in there. (I often lose out)
I personaly have a love/hate relationship with Eve.
I love it becuase it reminds me so much of my favourite game from the old times, Elite. and I hate it becuase its such a HUGE time sink. While time sink CAN be tolerable, the time sink in eve rarely is because I waste time traveling, I miss out a LOT of content becuase my skills are not high level skills. Whoever thought of leveling skills in real time should be .. spanked, and not in a good way. Real time skills means it takes literaly MONTHS of real time to level it. First, its a HGUE disadvantage for newcomers, second, it removes a portion of personal skill - becuase anyone can become level whatever of whatever, give enough real time is invested. Oh, and the reasoning behind "you can do other things while flying" is not valid becuase: a) you need to be present if u fly through low level system b) i dont want to wait. I want to play NOW! Any game that makes me spend more then 30 minutes to travel is not worthy playing. In eve, youve got to travel a lot so you could spend RL hours of travel daily.
Travel and skills are biggest errors in Eve development from my perspective. Combat is OK, not great but OK. Sure would love to have more action going on then just push several buttons from time to time...
Im sure if Eve would get rid of the these big issues, then it would become a realy big game with literaly tens or hundreds of thousands of players. The future of the MMO is content, variety and casual player friendliness. If they ignore these then the game is either doomed or it will never go beyond its hardcore fans.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 I personaly have a love/hate relationship with Eve.I love it becuase it reminds me so much of my favourite game from the old times, Elite. and I hate it becuase its such a HUGE time sink. While time sink CAN be tolerable, the time sink in eve rarely is because I waste time traveling, I miss out a LOT of content becuase my skills are not high level skills. Whoever thought of leveling skills in real time should be .. spanked, and not in a good way. Real time skills means it takes literaly MONTHS of real time to level it. First, its a HGUE disadvantage for newcomers, second, it removes a portion of personal skill - becuase anyone can become level whatever of whatever, give enough real time is invested. Oh, and the reasoning behind "you can do other things while flying" is not valid becuase: a) you need to be present if u fly through low level system b) i dont want to wait. I want to play NOW! Any game that makes me spend more then 30 minutes to travel is not worthy playing. In eve, youve got to travel a lot so you could spend RL hours of travel daily.Travel and skills are biggest errors in Eve development from my perspective. Combat is OK, not great but OK. Sure would love to have more action going on then just push several buttons from time to time...Im sure if Eve would get rid of the these big issues, then it would become a realy big game with literaly tens or hundreds of thousands of players. The future of the MMO is content, variety and casual player friendliness. If they ignore these then the game is either doomed or it will never go beyond its hardcore fans.
Ignorance.
Did you fail to ever consider that travel times are what enable eve to have the economy it does?
There is a lot more to combat than just clicking a few buttons if you understand it, obviously you don't.
Comments
I second that. EVE (or any MMORPG) is not for you.
MMORPGs (even the one filled with "content") require imagination and active use by the player for the game to stay interesting over a longer period of time. To take EVE as example again: This game just provides you with the tools. The "story, the "content" you have to make. That is not laziness or incompetence by CCP. By putting players on the forefront of content creation it is THEM who shape the universe and THEM who are the ones influencing everything. There is no other game where players can shape the universe to this extent.
And everything you do in EVE should be a building block for what you want to do with the game.
Travelling is such a '"building block". But I usually never get bored. I chat with corpm8s, check the markets of the systems where I get through, check ship statistics, organize my stuff, think about possible ship setups, etc. Or if in safe space I just go afk, for a healthy doese of RL.
I agree that this is one way of running an MMO. But some players like to have a large ammt of the content already there that they can participate in. EVE is a very timesink intensive game. Other than the timesinks (TRAVEL... LOOTING... The months long time it takes to be competitive with vets) I loved it.
No offense to anyone but it SHOULD be fun to solo in an MMO if that's what someone chooses to do. It shouldn't be geared around soloing, by any means, after all it's an MMO... but there are times when even the most group-loving players want or need to solo... and those times should still be fun.
Again... as I said in my review of the game: EVE is a wonderful game but it's not for everyone. The things I personally don't like about it other players will like.
EVE as it currently is designed is a great niche Sci Fi game that caters to exactly what it's players enjoy.
For me: If it were JUST the travel delays it wouldn't bother me. But the INCREDIBLE time it takes just to even loot cargo is just silly. It is 'logical' but it certainly isn't 'fun' that it takes 30 minutes+ just to loot the cargo after finishing a level 2 or 3 mission.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Eve isn't for everyone. The very same factors that attract one kind of player are what put off another. Complex thinking, tactics and economics such as time invested in travelling vs. ISK made on the run are the hallmarks of this game. It is not an FPS and if someone wants to jump in, run aorund adn kill people with an equal chance as those who've been playing a year and then shove off again after half an hour, well I say go play Unreal Tournament.
Long travel times is one of the biggest points of contention. On the one had it can be boring as all hell if you need to go 20 jumps in a slow ship. This makes you stop and think "Why am I going there necessarily? Is it important enough to warrant it?" Perhaps you heard through your Alliance channel that some War targets were prime for a fight. Maybe you spotted an incredibly lucrative trade on the market. It's a decision that needs thought, with a trade off either way. Maybe there's enough of your Corp at the battle to handle it. Perhaps there's a less profitable but much quicker trade route. Eve is not a simple solo game and if you try to play it that way (mission grinding with the *same* agent day in day out and nothing more) then you will get bored.
Space is... well ti's space-like. Funnily enough. it's big and black with lots of stars, planets, gas clouds and other things. It's also VERY BIG. This means that yes, you will see that same gas cloud stretching for several light years and maybe even 2 or 3 systems in the constellation. That's like complaining that you're running through a huge forest in another MMO and it's filled with hundreds of trees for miles around. If your graphics card and drivers are good enough, you can see immense detail on the planets and moons. Cities, lightning storms - they even slowly rotate about an axis. Complexes, deadspace mission areas and even random ares of regular systems also have additional and unique features. Complex gas clouds that rotate and swirl or buildings that emit EM fields. Again, this sort of fine detail isn't to everyone's taste and if it grinds you down that much then EVE isn't a good game for you.
What he said
If pitbulls could lock their jaw the first pitbull would still be hanging on
wtf that was nika
whats up 
holy crap ubi!! long time no see
ill log on and talk to u there if your on now
If pitbulls could lock their jaw the first pitbull would still be hanging on
cool
U still playing or what? i havnt seen u for a good while
If pitbulls could lock their jaw the first pitbull would still be hanging on
if you do not like this game , do not play it.
I for one, do like this game, for a number of reasons.
on/offline skill learning.
able to be whatever i want to be: miner, trader, manufacturer, pker
having betad , then played all the big mmorpg names out today( uo, eq,doac, swg, d&l atm, as well as some pure crap ones (horizons anyone?) I fond this game totally relaxing, no matter whatever i want to do on my playsession.
the orig poster claimed everything takes too long? maybe if you dont learn any skills, or learn how to play the game this could be true, but thats more a persons smartness than the game mechanics at work there.
The game is laid back for certain, but you can play hectic /stressful if you wish at any time you want.
I personally enjoy not staring at spawns for hours, doing impossible quests that take forever, and its nice to solo as much as you want, without it affecting your characters advancement.
having said that, there is a real focus on corps in this game, and those that make friends will have a far easier time of it imho.
If you find it boring, maybe you go play another game, for a game is what you make of it.
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Man.. I get mostly angry when ppl that have played eve for what 10 days. And they talk like they have experienced everything eve have to offer. I got my first bs after a month. Even then I could hardly use it. A battleship is the backbone to everything in eve. After a month you haven't even experienced a desent battle most likely. I remember my first fleet battle in jnz nearly a year and a half ago. I was then 3 months old. My heart was pounding like hell. I've never had such an experiance in ANY other game. They just don't give you that kind of risk as in EVE. The effort you worked for the last 3 months can go up in matters of seconds. Hell.. It took me 1 year to get a general understanding what is drifting underneath the surface. The politics that dictates everything in eve. From who gets pounded where to who is able to buy what when. This is a totally player enviroment. And I mean total. But I ask you. Give me one online game that will stand the test of time better than eve. That have such an dedicated fanbase. Who love the game like no other. Becus the players who stay in eve. Know why this is the best game out there. There is no contest. Other games might have better grafhics, more npc stuff, better worlds, more stuff. But I assure you.. There are no grater player enviroment in any other game. There are none out there who give you this level of interaction whit your peers. On good and bad. So why make an online game if your not there for the interaction? Why not just stick to your normal single player games on your disconnected computer. Becus we're really here for interaction. To try our best against those bad mother f out there. Some you win. Many you lose. In my case.. the other way around..
WoW got nothing on us EVE'ers. ....
EVE forever.....
Its called something like regionalization, yes traveling is boring and long but it creates local markets instead of everybody just going to one place. Thats why you are able to buy things in low population far off areas at all, because people don't want to travel that distance.
second, you don't need t travel 20 jumps very often, if you are doing that daily then you are doing something wrong.
third, eve is what you make it, if you don't make an attempt to get involved with the story, the politics, the logistics, the pvp, the community etc. then you will get bored. Lastly, posting an anti-eve thread in an eve-online forum full of eve-lovers is . . . well . . . let's just say it rhymes with 'schlamebait'
oh and thanks, i'm sure your post opened all of our eyes. We thought we were having fun but really we weren't. I'm sure now tens of thousands of people, now with ignorant delusions of 'fun' lifted, will quit the game because of your fantastic contribution to this online community. and remember kids "Dude, it's space. Everywhere you go....it's space" don't be pulled into paying 15$ a month for a space game that has the nerve to be set in space.
Make of it what you will.
I second that. EVE (or any MMORPG) is not for you.
MMORPGs (even the one filled with "content") require imagination and active use by the player for the game to stay interesting over a longer period of time. To take EVE as example again: This game just provides you with the tools. The "story, the "content" you have to make. That is not laziness or incompetence by CCP. By putting players on the forefront of content creation it is THEM who shape the universe and THEM who are the ones influencing everything. There is no other game where players can shape the universe to this extent.
And everything you do in EVE should be a building block for what you want to do with the game.
Travelling is such a '"building block". But I usually never get bored. I chat with corpm8s, check the markets of the systems where I get through, check ship statistics, organize my stuff, think about possible ship setups, etc. Or if in safe space I just go afk, for a healthy doese of RL.
I agree that this is one way of running an MMO. But some players like to have a large ammt of the content already there that they can participate in. EVE is a very timesink intensive game. Other than the timesinks (TRAVEL... LOOTING... The months long time it takes to be competitive with vets) I loved it.
No offense to anyone but it SHOULD be fun to solo in an MMO if that's what someone chooses to do. It shouldn't be geared around soloing, by any means, after all it's an MMO... but there are times when even the most group-loving players want or need to solo... and those times should still be fun.
Again... as I said in my review of the game: EVE is a wonderful game but it's not for everyone. The things I personally don't like about it other players will like.
EVE as it currently is designed is a great niche Sci Fi game that caters to exactly what it's players enjoy.
For me: If it were JUST the travel delays it wouldn't bother me. But the INCREDIBLE time it takes just to even loot cargo is just silly. It is 'logical' but it certainly isn't 'fun' that it takes 30 minutes+ just to loot the cargo after finishing a level 2 or 3 mission.
Games in general are timesinks at core. They keep us from doing meaningful things in life. We hang there before the computer (or a board) to get distracted from the outside world a bit. A discussion if that or that game is more of a time sink is totally needless.
EVE with its offline training and so many possible avenues of play caters to hardcore and casual gamers (which I would call myself), and in the end it is that what matters - no other game can claim to that to this extent. Everyone can finetune their time to play while still being competetive with their character.
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Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Hey Ubi, what the heck is taking time?
when are you coming back online mate?
/Blood
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Famous people speak out:
Im for the death penalty. If you commit a terrible crime you should have a harsh punishment...So you learn until next time.
-Britney Spears
Hey Ubi, what the heck is taking time?
when are you coming back online mate?
/Blood
when i get my Visa so i can pay
I will take being bored in a game like this than a game with as much depth as a child swimming pool. You leave eve becuase its boring and then realize that no other game comes even close to Eve.
The rush... of traveling through 0.0.... nothing happens... you sweat as you are hauling your stuff between stations ... bloody corp relocating... and then boom! ...a pirate! No, two pirates! OMG!! Warp drive active! AACCCCTTITIIIIIVVVVEEEEE!!!
Travels in EVE are exciting IF you have the guts to play the game where it is risky. And where the kickback is real do some:
and then some: 
and then some: 
and finally some 
and stop whining. Chicken.
The problem with Eve is the factors in which newbies can get involved.
Let me give you an example. I heard all about Shadowbane, and how it was gonna revolutionize everything. I wasn't normally interested in PvP, because it wasn't warfare; it was surprise gankiing, often of people with level differences so great that the ones being abused had ZERO chance of defending themselves.
So I tried it out on one of their free trials. And get told that you have to be at least level 20 to really seriously participate in the PvPing without being a joke. So I spent those seven days trying to level up, and realized I was in the same level treadmill as everything else.
Eve is beautiful, IMHO. Its a great concept. But, newbies have no way to really get involved except in the most indirect manner, and any "risks" they take are fully one-sided risks, as they have zero way of threatening those that threaten them.
Newbies need a way to get immersed in as deeply and quickly as possible. Thats the problem with any PvP system which has imbalancing factors such as levels, resources, etc. The newbie has no way of competing, and either has to play it safe until they can, or take risks that really has no real reward, and no risk for their potential adversaries.
One day, someone out there is gonna get it right. Until then....
Absolute and definite bollocks. I moved out to 0.0 space the first week of playing eve. Joined a nice corp in the xetic federation and had great fun fending off pirates and enemies alike. In solo play, yes theres not much a new player can do but 90% of players in eve fly with a group. 20 new players in frigates can do nasty, nasty things. If you specialize your skills you can almost catch up to veterans in your first 1-2 months with a 5% difference in some skills. 5% isnt much. Nowadays people just train skills to level 5 so that they can use tech 2 ships and modules.
So if you feel overwhelmed by veterans, i suggest you join a 0.0 corp today, jump into a frigatte and get familliar with pvp while at the same time, specializing your character. Today, most people fly tech 2 frigates since they are a blast to fly, so i would reccoment those.
It will take you roughly 1 month to be able to fly them, and about 2 months to fly them effectively. During that time, fly tech 1 frigates (They are getting a boost soon) and get familliar with frigate pvp. Heed my advice and you will thank me in the future.
_____________________
I am the flipside of the coin on which the troll and the fanboy are but one side.
The waiting time for newbies is what keeps the community so great. The steep learning curve and the amount of time before you can really dive fully into the game keeps the children and idiots away. Even most of the pirates in this game, the people that are called scum and such, are cunning and smart. A game that relies as much on wits and quick thinking than ship setups or experiance.
Take a look at games like Wow. You join the game, and instantly what your doing is basicly what you will be doing until you reach endgame (add a few instances and some pointless Pvp and theres all of Wow has to offer you). Now take a look at the community. Wow has one of the most immature gaming communities out there. Everything about that game is pointless and the only reason so many people play it is becuase each time they hit a level they feel like they accomplished somthing. That feeling of leveling doesnt exist in eve, so they stay away.
Insta-child block version 3.0
Yepp, I absolutely true. Somebody else in these forums called it "Community Filter", and it actually works.
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Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
The waiting time for newbies is what keeps the community so great. The steep learning curve and the amount of time before you can really dive fully into the game keeps the children and idiots away. Even most of the pirates in this game, the people that are called scum and such, are cunning and smart. A game that relies as much on wits and quick thinking than ship setups or experiance.
Take a look at games like Wow. You join the game, and instantly what your doing is basicly what you will be doing until you reach endgame (add a few instances and some pointless Pvp and theres all of Wow has to offer you). Now take a look at the community. Wow has one of the most immature gaming communities out there. Everything about that game is pointless and the only reason so many people play it is becuase each time they hit a level they feel like they accomplished somthing. That feeling of leveling doesnt exist in eve, so they stay away.
Insta-child block version 3.0
Agree but only to a point. That learning curve and time investment just to get to a moderately enjoyable level of gameplay also drives off a lot of high quality and intelligent players.
The bottom line is that EVE caters to a very niche market:
PVP gamers who have tons of patience.
The game is awesome but it's not for everyone. It's both a strength and a weakness of the game. Not good but not bad either. The game itself is quite excellent. Personally I play games to be entertained not so I can watch TV while I warp
It's a mindset: My entertainment must entertain me or it's not worth my money. If I have to *find* ways to entertain myself while paying for a *game* then it's not worth my money.
Other people enjoy the realism of EVE. I do too but I don't have the patience to wait 1-2 months to reach a point where I can 'contribute' in PVP. And 6 months to be able to go head to head in combat is just too long.
Add to the fact that many Corps won't even let you join till you have over 1mil SP and it just makes it worse for new players. Tell me: How many of you that tout and holler at people to "join a good corp". Start listing good corps for new players that don't have a skill point requirement. Because, frankly, it's very hard to find them. I suspect I might have stayed with EVE if I could have found a "good corp" "that operates in 0.0" which didn't have a 1mil SP requirement.
Case in point: I have now posted here on the corp forum what I'm looking for in a corp. I posted something very similar a *month* ago on the EVE official forums and only 2 corps replied. And even the guy who is doing 'headhunting' services couldn't find a corp that would take a new player with less than 1mil skill points.
My account will remain inactive until someone can point me to a corp that meets the needs outlined in my post here in the corp forums. If someone can point me at one that meets the requirements I have then I will re-activate and give EVE another try.
Till then I stand by this statement:
EVE is beautiful
It's a great game
but it's very hard to get into and only caters to some players. Most will find it boring but it is worth a free trial to see if it suits your playstyle. After 14 days you should know if it's for you or not.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
i agree with fizzle on most points, i think that you have explained to me, why i stopped playing eve and why its got boring...
I think your semi right.
It's for intelligent pvp gamers whit mature attitude and time to play long hours.
If you lack either. You very quickly fall out. I don't say that your stupid if your not enjoying eve.
What I'm saying is that you most likely lack one or more of these attributes.
But I think you can enjoy eve even if you have just intelligence and a mature attitude whit some time to spear.
But even if you like it or not. Eve is massive. And it takes a sertain cunning mind to get ahead in it. An it's very much the survival of the fittest in there. (I often lose out)
I personaly have a love/hate relationship with Eve.
I love it becuase it reminds me so much of my favourite game from the old times, Elite. and I hate it becuase its such a HUGE time sink. While time sink CAN be tolerable, the time sink in eve rarely is because I waste time traveling, I miss out a LOT of content becuase my skills are not high level skills. Whoever thought of leveling skills in real time should be .. spanked, and not in a good way. Real time skills means it takes literaly MONTHS of real time to level it. First, its a HGUE disadvantage for newcomers, second, it removes a portion of personal skill - becuase anyone can become level whatever of whatever, give enough real time is invested.
Oh, and the reasoning behind "you can do other things while flying" is not valid becuase:
a) you need to be present if u fly through low level system
b) i dont want to wait. I want to play NOW! Any game that makes me spend more then 30 minutes to travel is not worthy playing. In eve, youve got to travel a lot so you could spend RL hours of travel daily.
Travel and skills are biggest errors in Eve development from my perspective. Combat is OK, not great but OK. Sure would love to have more action going on then just push several buttons from time to time...
Im sure if Eve would get rid of the these big issues, then it would become a realy big game with literaly tens or hundreds of thousands of players. The future of the MMO is content, variety and casual player friendliness. If they ignore these then the game is either doomed or it will never go beyond its hardcore fans.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Ignorance.
Did you fail to ever consider that travel times are what enable eve to have the economy it does?
There is a lot more to combat than just clicking a few buttons if you understand it, obviously you don't.