Originally posted by jimmyman99 I personaly have a love/hate relationship with Eve.I love it becuase it reminds me so much of my favourite game from the old times, Elite. and I hate it becuase its such a HUGE time sink. While time sink CAN be tolerable, the time sink in eve rarely is because I waste time traveling, I miss out a LOT of content becuase my skills are not high level skills. Whoever thought of leveling skills in real time should be .. spanked, and not in a good way. Real time skills means it takes literaly MONTHS of real time to level it. First, its a HGUE disadvantage for newcomers, second, it removes a portion of personal skill - becuase anyone can become level whatever of whatever, give enough real time is invested. Oh, and the reasoning behind "you can do other things while flying" is not valid becuase: a) you need to be present if u fly through low level system b) i dont want to wait. I want to play NOW! Any game that makes me spend more then 30 minutes to travel is not worthy playing. In eve, youve got to travel a lot so you could spend RL hours of travel daily.Travel and skills are biggest errors in Eve development from my perspective. Combat is OK, not great but OK. Sure would love to have more action going on then just push several buttons from time to time...Im sure if Eve would get rid of the these big issues, then it would become a realy big game with literaly tens or hundreds of thousands of players. The future of the MMO is content, variety and casual player friendliness. If they ignore these then the game is either doomed or it will never go beyond its hardcore fans.
So would you rather have a grinding system, where you are forced to grind the same amount of time as skill training in order to compete? I don't see how it removes a portion of personal skill as you say, I mean do you consider freetime player skill?
and don't give me "you can hit cap in *insert game name here* in only 3 months, while training all the skills in EVE takes years!" because how long would it take you to have a capped character in all the different classes in that particular game?
I do agree that skill system is annoying at times(like when the skills take 20+ days to train) but it's like the game is doing the grinding for me. Traveling works towards establishing regional markets and making trading fit into EVE, you aren't meant to be zipping around all across the universe at the snap of your fingers, choose a region, and stick with it. Although it's annoying when you have to make long trips, the traveling time is essential to making EVE work.
---------------------------------- MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
HOw on earth does time traveled MAKE an economy in Eve??? By your words, the more time is spent traveling, the better economy is??? Imagine for a second that there were wormholes in Eve spread around the galaxies, allowing players to reach the other side of the universe in not DAYS of real time flying but lets say 1 hour. How would that effect the economy? It would boost it because now players are encouraged to manufacture pretty much anywhere, they are not forced to choose between a handfull of stars where most of the commerce takes place.
If i were into manufacturing, and travel time wasnt such an issue, then i didnt care that much about where I try to sell my items at. If its a far far system, well, no problem, i know people can travel there in 30 mins if someone realy wanted an item. I know this from my experience - i saw an item i wanted and it was like 2 hours RL traveling from my current location - so I had to drop whatever I was doing, and start traveling, sit by my computer for 2 hours (dont even tell me i can do other stuff because one ganker = no more doing other stuff while warping) just to get that item.. and OMG, what do u know, this is so exciting! Whos ignorant now?
Dinion. No, i would not like a grinding system. What id like is a system that would let me level my skills at my speed, that means if im good, i will level my skills 10x faster then someone who sux at it. Just like leveling, a hardcore player can level several times faster then a casual or sucky player - and that is their reward for the time invested and for their actual game skills. If yer good - good reward, if yer bad- not so good reward.
Regarding travel time, thank you for not calling me ignorant like the person above you did. My point is - i dont want the warp-to-any-place-in-the-universe system. no, I want a reasonable travel time, the one that doesnt take 2 hours to get a dozen systems away from my current location. Face it, casual players are the bulk of the player base, we dont have time to spend 2 hours, not even 30 minutes on mindless travel. It may work for eceonomy in a strage way I suppose, but it would work so much better if it were faster. Just take real life example, economy booms with faster transportation. In general, traveling in Eve is plain and simple wait-time - its the same as in EQ you have to regain mana/health after each fight, very unfriendly. Well heres a thought, make a much faster travel for people in i duno, shuttles or something, that way you can get to places faster, but dont let big ships travel that fast. That way economy as you know it will not be affected that much, big ships carrying tons of ore wont be able to sell it all in the core system, but at least people who want to buy that missile launcher dont have to spend half a day to grab it.
Even so, with the current system in place, Eve will not get a lot of people playing it. Like i said, the current system is fine for the hardcore diehard people, not for common average gamer Joe. If you or devs want more people in, they need to change something, and who would know more on what needs to be changed then an average Joe? If 1 person tells you your music sux, thats just an opinion, if 100s do that - thats a fact. Dont go calling names someone who shares his experience and concerns and tries to make a suggestion that would actualy may improve the game.
I show a problem, I give you an explanation and a solution. What more is to ask? Thank you.
PS: sory if i sound a bit angry, i just got called ignorant for trying to make a game better. *steam off*
I havent gotten to the top levels, but as far as I know, there are only several clicks needed during a fight, u activate a weapon, maybe some items like shield boost or what have you. Thats pretty much it. During combat, you can have a choice of approximately 5-10 clickable actions. How many clickable options do you have at the high levels? Just to clear up my point, im not saying the strategy side of EO combat is bad, im saying is that during a fight, I dont have a lot of options to choose from. In comparison to WoW, at the mid-level range some classes have up to 40-50 clickable actions they can do to win the fight - skills, potions, talents, bombs, trinkets and other clickable items. Imagine your tactics with that many options!!?? Not many games have that many options. GW for example has only a handfull, so it relies more on the careful precombat choice - but once you are in combat, you are very limited in your options. Your personal skills still play a very important role in the outcome of the fight, but I think the more options you have, the more unpredictable, and thus more interesting combat is.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 HOw on earth does time traveled MAKE an economy in Eve??? By your words, the more time is spent traveling, the better economy is??? Imagine for a second that there were wormholes in Eve spread around the galaxies, allowing players to reach the other side of the universe in not DAYS of real time flying but lets say 1 hour. How would that effect the economy? It would boost it because now players are encouraged to manufacture pretty much anywhere, they are not forced to choose between a handfull of stars where most of the commerce takes place.If i were into manufacturing, and travel time wasnt such an issue, then i didnt care that much about where I try to sell my items at. If its a far far system, well, no problem, i know people can travel there in 30 mins if someone realy wanted an item. I know this from my experience - i saw an item i wanted and it was like 2 hours RL traveling from my current location - so I had to drop whatever I was doing, and start traveling, sit by my computer for 2 hours (dont even tell me i can do other stuff because one ganker = no more doing other stuff while warping) just to get that item.. and OMG, what do u know, this is so exciting! Whos ignorant now?
Ignorance.
A balanced length of travel provides incentive to trade. If you could get everywhere instantly you'd never have high and low prices in regions or high and low sell points because you'd buy the cheapest stuff since it was easily accessible. Wow, that took a lot of thought, maybe you just aren't thinking very hard.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Dinion. No, i would not like a grinding system. What id like is a system that would let me level my skills at my speed, that means if im good, i will level my skills 10x faster then someone who sux at it. Just like leveling, a hardcore player can level several times faster then a casual or sucky player - and that is their reward for the time invested and for their actual game skills. If yer good - good reward, if yer bad- not so good reward.Regarding travel time, thank you for not calling me ignorant like the person above you did. My point is - i dont want the warp-to-any-place-in-the-universe system. no, I want a reasonable travel time, the one that doesnt take 2 hours to get a dozen systems away from my current location. Face it, casual players are the bulk of the player base, we dont have time to spend 2 hours, not even 30 minutes on mindless travel. It may work for eceonomy in a strage way I suppose, but it would work so much better if it were faster. Just take real life example, economy booms with faster transportation. In general, traveling in Eve is plain and simple wait-time - its the same as in EQ you have to regain mana/health after each fight, very unfriendly. Well heres a thought, make a much faster travel for people in i duno, shuttles or something, that way you can get to places faster, but dont let big ships travel that fast. That way economy as you know it will not be affected that much, big ships carrying tons of ore wont be able to sell it all in the core system, but at least people who want to buy that missile launcher dont have to spend half a day to grab it.Even so, with the current system in place, Eve will not get a lot of people playing it. Like i said, the current system is fine for the hardcore diehard people, not for common average gamer Joe. If you or devs want more people in, they need to change something, and who would know more on what needs to be changed then an average Joe? If 1 person tells you your music sux, thats just an opinion, if 100s do that - thats a fact. Dont go calling names someone who shares his experience and concerns and tries to make a suggestion that would actualy may improve the game. I show a problem, I give you an explanation and a solution. What more is to ask? Thank you.PS: sory if i sound a bit angry, i just got called ignorant for trying to make a game better. *steam off*
What you want is the ability to become better stronger because you live at home without a job and you have 24x7 to play the game. EVE's limit on what you can learn how fast makes you choose and specialize which makes each individual unique. Again you are wrong and miss the very point of EVE. It isn't an issue or a bug, it's the way it is meant to be and it is very well thought out.
EVE has plenty of people playing it and more people who are smarter than you join every day. I introduced my average game friend to the game and he decided to subscribe on his second day and is still going he likes it so much. If 100s tell you something it doesn't mean squat. The majority isn't right all the time because the majority of people are idiots. Claiming that numbers make facts is just plain idiocy.
You don't know how to make a game better because you can't even understand the purpose of the game in the first place.
EVE: Boring... unless you like watching TV or reading a book while paying to play a video game.
It's got GREAT PVP. Unfortunately you won't be able to participate in it for at least 2-3 months (people will tell you '1 month if you get in a good corp' but most corps won't even invite you till you have 1mil SP (which takes 2-3 months to get)
To me EVE felt like a job... a bad one at that where over half the time I'm bored out of my skull...
If I want to do a job I'll go to work.. At least there I get paid... not the other way around.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
You can go from stain to tenal in an hr or so and thats the longest distance you can go in eve!
How does lots of jumps help the economy? you just answered that one yourself, you build the stuff ewhere you mine, sell it there, dont move it to another region to sell, the reason ur traveling is all wrong. CCP is trying to make peiople not travel, so that people will live in their own regions, thus regional markets, price fluxes between regions and so on, thats the reason for the extra jumps, ofcourse you can go the short ways, but thats through low sec space so there you have some risk V reward too.
I love people who produce in out of the way systems then move their stuff to hubs where they get into price wars with other idiots, i just buy up everything and move it back to the out of the way systems and sell them for double or tripple
The people who complain about long travel times are mostly too dumb to see that they dont have to travel anywhere (well, not far) to play eve.
If you coldnt instantly go from one side of eve to another then it would be damm impossible to claim space as scounts couldnt see fleets aproaching.
The combat system in eve comprises of pre setup and tactics and then catching the person to fight in a predicament that enhances your setup while really crushing theirs, thats where the player skill comes in:
Selecting setup
Selecting time
selecting enemy
Selecting range
I make about 1000 clicks when im actually fighting, but people who talk about whacking F1-F8 are the people i kill without a problem, take alook at the columns in your over view, your speed, your range and the stats of your guns, i will leave you to figure out what to do with all that...put yet again that would take player skill
You have very little clue as far as I can read as to how this game works. You want to sit on your ass in front of your monitor all day long and get above those who work and have a life. Playing 24/7 does not equate to skill, it equates to your jobless ass having time to grind, which any chimp can do. EvE relies far more on grey matter (that means brains) than being glued to your PC for 100 hours a week.
Your lack of understanding on the travel times in EvE is incredible. How you fail to see the relevance between travel times and market is stunning. Your exaggaration of the travel times is also incredible. What do you travel in a hauler? No instas? Safe route all the way?
The reason for the "long" travel times is in order for numbskuls like you to get frustrated, and either quit in a sulk, or stay in the same region and create regional variance in market prices.
Bleh I would like to type more but your ignorance is too incredible to waste more of my time.
Originally posted by Elnator EVE: Boring... unless you like watching TV or reading a book while paying to play a video game. .
Hey, I do that in every MMO .
---------------------------------- MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
Sure it takes a while to go anyway. there are 70 thousand people in one universe, a hell of a lot bigger than any other "shard" "realm" or whatever you want to call them. I've played eve for almost two years now, and i've spent 99% of my game time in just 2 or 3 regions. I personally love EVE's varient and realistic economy, so thats what I do. Do you want loads of PVP, then join an aggressive pvp corp or invading alliance, I'm sure you'll get pvp to your hearts desire.
And of course people don't want to lose their ships. Ships cost money, and money takes time to earn, which therefore makes battle more MEANINFUL. One of the reasons I can never play WoW for long is because there is no risk in doing ANYTHING. Your eq doesn't even get damaged in PVP. Now, if you could actually capture a town or city from the horde or alliance in WoW that would have an effect on the players in that game, now that would make something meaninful, and therefore more interesting.
Well, fine then. People call me ignorant because I try to give a suggestion that would improve the game but OMG, some people sit at home 24/7 and grind their asses till there is no tommorow. No room for casual player at all. If spending an hour watching your ship warp makes you horny, fine by me. EO will never be a hit like EQ2 or WoW because of stubborn people who only see their little room and spit at anyone who doesnt agree with them.
Oh, and the person who thinks hes smart and the rest of the people are idiots - now THATS ignorance.
Id love to see Eve evolve into more casual friendly game, but judging from the hardcore players' reactions, thats not gonna happen. Fine, just play in your universe with 70000 players spread around thousands of stars.
Morphuess, yes you are correct WoW. It would be so much better if it had more tangible PvP rewards. Id love to see WoW implement Planetside style PvP. That would rule.
I agree with the original poster, that game is just a giant waste of time, more so than any other mmo i've played in the last 6-7 years.
Eve seems really interesting when you first start out learning the game, and to be honest the learning curve isnt even as bad as people make out. Then once you figure out the basics, know what your buying/selling, and have to do to get anywhere I realised that its just as repetative as all the other mmo's too.
Eve devs must just be laughing at people whilst raking it in.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Well, fine then. People call me ignorant because I try to give a suggestion that would improve the game but OMG, some people sit at home 24/7 and grind their asses till there is no tommorow. No room for casual player at all. If spending an hour watching your ship warp makes you horny, fine by me. EO will never be a hit like EQ2 or WoW because of stubborn people who only see their little room and spit at anyone who doesnt agree with them. Oh, and the person who thinks hes smart and the rest of the people are idiots - now THATS ignorance. Id love to see Eve evolve into more casual friendly game, but judging from the hardcore players' reactions, thats not gonna happen. Fine, just play in your universe with 70000 players spread around thousands of stars. Morphuess, yes you are correct WoW. It would be so much better if it had more tangible PvP rewards. Id love to see WoW implement Planetside style PvP. That would rule.
EO is probably the most casual friendly game out there with skill training being real time based.
Well I apologise for calling people idiots, put it down to a bad hair day. But the reason why so many people travel in eve is idiotic.
The reasons why distances were changed in eve and it now takes longer to move is because TechII sellers and other TechI producers were sick of the 'Yulai' syndromme of undercutting other peoples prices.
CCP changed the routes to try and make people mine/produce then sell in other regions and not move the items to one hub as there would not be one hub, then creating regional markets.
CCP are trying there best to encourage people not to move around too much and to make localised communities.
So id like to know why you move around and say that you are bored with traveling?
My moving around is my game, I move around looking for people to kill, not know whats on the other side of the gate, but that doesnt seem to be what you do.
If you need to travel far to buy a new ship, you have to travel far because one of your locals produced a ship and moved it to a hub. If you have to move to a hub to buy guns, then its because some1 from your region put them there.
If your a producer you can form little syndicates in your region so that all producers have a chance to place certain goods on in certain systems and advertise to local agent runners/pvpers.
Agent runners/pvpers dont want to have to move 20jumps to a hub because their local producer decided to go 20 jumps to put the stuff their.
Producers make more isk because they dont have to move and they are not in a such a competetive market, miners make more isk because of the same reasons and agent runners make more isk because they can get back to running missions.
Originally posted by Tenacha Originally posted by jimmyman99 Well, fine then. People call me ignorant because I try to give a suggestion that would improve the game but OMG, some people sit at home 24/7 and grind their asses till there is no tommorow. No room for casual player at all. If spending an hour watching your ship warp makes you horny, fine by me. EO will never be a hit like EQ2 or WoW because of stubborn people who only see their little room and spit at anyone who doesnt agree with them. Oh, and the person who thinks hes smart and the rest of the people are idiots - now THATS ignorance. Id love to see Eve evolve into more casual friendly game, but judging from the hardcore players' reactions, thats not gonna happen. Fine, just play in your universe with 70000 players spread around thousands of stars. Morphuess, yes you are correct WoW. It would be so much better if it had more tangible PvP rewards. Id love to see WoW implement Planetside style PvP. That would rule. EO is probably the most casual friendly game out there with skill training being real time based. Well I apologise for calling people idiots, put it down to a bad hair day. But the reason why so many people travel in eve is idiotic. The reasons why distances were changed in eve and it now takes longer to move is because TechII sellers and other TechI producers were sick of the 'Yulai' syndromme of undercutting other peoples prices. CCP changed the routes to try and make people mine/produce then sell in other regions and not move the items to one hub as there would not be one hub, then creating regional markets. CCP are trying there best to encourage people not to move around too much and to make localised communities. So id like to know why you move around and say that you are bored with traveling? My moving around is my game, I move around looking for people to kill, not know whats on the other side of the gate, but that doesnt seem to be what you do. If you need to travel far to buy a new ship, you have to travel far because one of your locals produced a ship and moved it to a hub. If you have to move to a hub to buy guns, then its because some1 from your region put them there. If your a producer you can form little syndicates in your region so that all producers have a chance to place certain goods on in certain systems and advertise to local agent runners/pvpers. Agent runners/pvpers dont want to have to move 20jumps to a hub because their local producer decided to go 20 jumps to put the stuff their. Producers make more isk because they dont have to move and they are not in a such a competetive market, miners make more isk because of the same reasons and agent runners make more isk because they can get back to running missions.
So what you're saying is that if we don't play the game the way CCP wants us to then we'll be bored.
No offense... that's not a game... that's a job I don't pay someone money to have a job
A game should entertain ME. I should not have to entertain myself while playing the game.
And, as I have said numerous times. It's not so much the TRAVEL time that irks the living hell out of me, it's the time it takes to gather up cargo after a big fight. That is just flat out annoying. If it weren't for that one thing I would probably still be playing. I got sick of wasting 45 minutes or more of my time looting the cargo after a mission.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
If you spent 45 minutes gathering cargo you have a brain disorder because it isn't that hard...sheesh. I think you just have to learn basic geometry and to learn to fly because if you approach containers in a logical order and do fly bys as you pick em up you can gather it all fairly easily.
Practice makes perfect, quitting and whining does not.
Originally posted by PnHobbit If you spent 45 minutes gathering cargo you have a brain disorder because it isn't that hard...sheesh. I think you just have to learn basic geometry and to learn to fly because if you approach containers in a logical order and do fly bys as you pick em up you can gather it all fairly easily.Practice makes perfect, quitting and whining does not.
Mhmmm
Someone hasn't been a noob in a long time. Travel for us noobs with under 1mil SP is ***slow***... painfully ***slow*** even in "fast" ships.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by PnHobbit If you spent 45 minutes gathering cargo you have a brain disorder because it isn't that hard...sheesh. I think you just have to learn basic geometry and to learn to fly because if you approach containers in a logical order and do fly bys as you pick em up you can gather it all fairly easily.Practice makes perfect, quitting and whining does not.
Mhmmm
Someone hasn't been a noob in a long time. Travel for us noobs with under 1mil SP is ***slow***... painfully ***slow*** even in "fast" ships.
And once again you are dead wrong. I have a character above a million by a ways and I also have an alternate I play that is below 1 million. I know what it is like, and it isn't bad.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's understandable that you can't graph simple concepts.
Originally posted by PnHobbit Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by PnHobbit If you spent 45 minutes gathering cargo you have a brain disorder because it isn't that hard...sheesh. I think you just have to learn basic geometry and to learn to fly because if you approach containers in a logical order and do fly bys as you pick em up you can gather it all fairly easily.Practice makes perfect, quitting and whining does not.
Mhmmm
Someone hasn't been a noob in a long time. Travel for us noobs with under 1mil SP is ***slow***... painfully ***slow*** even in "fast" ships.
And once again you are dead wrong. I have a character above a million by a ways and I also have an alternate I play that is below 1 million. I know what it is like, and it isn't bad.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's understandable that you can't graph simple concepts.
What I fail to "graph" is why certain people can't grasp why people don't like EVE.
If you've read my posts at all you would get that I think it's a good game, it's just too much of a time sink for me. I don't enjoy the waiting involved in this game. I'm just not that patient. Nor are the majority of gamers. EVE is a solid MMO and it's a great game, for those who enjoy the style of play it provides. For others, like myself, there are too many time sinks.
And, no, you can't possibly understand or "relate" to what it's like because you are already in a corp that you enjoy. For true new players we don't have that luxury. We have to find a corp that 1) plays during our playtimes (not easy for those of us in the USA) 2) has a decent member count at that time of day/night. 3) will take members who don't have over 1mil SP
That isn't exactly easy to do. As I said in another thread: IF I could have found a corp that suited me, had anough people on when I am, and would take me with under 1mil SP I would probably still be playing. Because the fact of the matter is that community is what helps a game like EVE to be fun. Without the community of friends to chat with and do things with while *waiting* the game is just that.... *waiting*.... with the community at least you have someone to talk to during all the waiting.
Unfortunately I wasn't as lucky as european new players. They have the luxury of having the bulk of the playerbase playing in thier time zone. So getting 1, 2 and 3 is a lot easier for them.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I played for about 45 days, and after that amount of time gave up on it. I consider myself a patient person- that's why I gave this game a chance- but it looked like a lot of work was going into it for just a little reward. Obviously, the more time you spend on the game the better it gets, but it seems like its painfully slow getting beyond having the low level ships/items/missions/whatever, and earning a decent amount of money. Maybe I was just doing something wrong, I wasn't sure because specific help was hard to get for a new player. If I can find the time to read a lot more about it and get better advice then I might give it another shot.
Originally posted by t0r0 I played for about 45 days, and after that amount of time gave up on it. I consider myself a patient person- that's why I gave this game a chance- but it looked like a lot of work was going into it for just a little reward. Obviously, the more time you spend on the game the better it gets, but it seems like its painfully slow getting beyond having the low level ships/items/missions/whatever, and earning a decent amount of money. Maybe I was just doing something wrong, I wasn't sure because specific help seemed to be hard to get. If I can find the time to read a lot more about it and get better advice then I might give it another shot.
No, it wasn't you. The folks that have been playing EVE for several months, or even years, fail to remember is that the lower end of the game is quite boring and very lonely. And it's not nearly as easy to get in a corp now as when they were "young".
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by fizzle32 You can't deny that the game is boring, it just IS. After reading another thread I've figured out what it is.... The #2 reason is that every part of the universe looks the same with a different wallpaper. But the #1 aspect that makes Eve so boring is TRAVEL TIME. I mean it's just inSANE. Every game out there has ways of speedy travel, you either take the subway in CoH or you get on the bird in WoW, they had PoK in Everquest, basically a means of fast travel. In Eve there is no means of fast travel, and even worse you can't autopilot everywhere for fear of getting ganked. So right there we have a triple game-gimping combination of : 1) Slow travel times 2) Identical environment with a different wallpaper 3) Have to be at the keyboard during the WHOLE time from gankers. As I see it right now, Eve is basically a game kept afloat by pandering to gankers, that's really the only fun thing to do in the game. There is also a sizeable population of what I would call "hardcore carebears" which are basically carebears that are such hardcore nerds that they are content to sit in base all day long manufacturing, buying/selling, researching, and basically igoring the rest of the game. Either that or they work as slave-miners to huge 400 man alliance corps, who take their labor and give back "access to 0.0" in return. Fleet battles involve blobs of purple blue and red dots, and battle involves listening for a primary target, locking it up, and hitting F1-F8. If your tank gets too weak, warp to a moon, recharge for 30 seconds and warp back. The loser gets to mine and go shopping for a new ship. You can summarize Eve in one word : Wait. Wait to travel. Wait to warp. Wait for someone to jump through the gate. Wait for skills. Wait for manufacturing. Wait for research. Wait for the mining laser. Anything you do, the first thing you do is WAIT. What Eve needs is to overhaul their system of instas, overhaul their travel times, it's just HORRENDOUS. Even travelling 20 jumps is EXCRUCIATING. Dude, it's space. Everywhere you go....it's space....you jump through the gate and you're still in...space. You make 60 jumps, AND YOU'RE STILL IN SPACE. The 60th universe looks exactly like the other 59 jumps you went through! What thought process went through your minds that thought it would be EXCITING to travel 15k to each gate, just to go to a place that looks exactly like the place you came from! And if you're lucky enough to have instas, your game content consists of waiting for the next sector to load. Think about it. You don't actually see anything, you're warping right on top of the gate and jumping through. Where's the content? Oh the warp animation is the content. The warp animation...warping...coming out of warp...jumping....warping...coming out of warp...jumping....warping ....warping....warping....warping....over and over and over and over. Don't get brainwashed into playing this game just because it took so long to develop your character. I got into this trap and it took me a long time to figure out that all the promises of a fun tommorrow never happen. You go from mining in a bantam, to mining in a cruiser, to mining in a BS, to mining in a barge...or hunting in a Kestrel...to hunting in a Caracal...to hunting in a Raven....you're just doing the same boring thing with a more expensive ship. It's not worth it. Break free and play something else that's actually fun.
Well u sound like a in a hurry kind of guy, What fun you must have in life i dont know. And by the way I dont got the game just wonted to tell you that you need to slow down get some PAXAL it works!
There are other games like CS, BF2 and the like. Please play those game and give away your stuff to some new player in EvE before you leave.. if you havent left already.
I don't think this game is for me either! I'm trying the 14 day trial, but the travel time is way too much. 10 minutes of waiting just to get to home base 6 jumps away, and that's a short journey. I can see exactly why someone called it an AFK game.
I have plenty of patience and hate the twitchiness of CS, BF2 etc, but I prefer a bit more action in my games than this! I'm typing this while waiting (again) for my ship to arrive at it's destination! I'm not too keen on the idea of a game I can play while surfing the net or doing the housework!
Comments
So would you rather have a grinding system, where you are forced to grind the same amount of time as skill training in order to compete? I don't see how it removes a portion of personal skill as you say, I mean do you consider freetime player skill?
and don't give me "you can hit cap in *insert game name here* in only 3 months, while training all the skills in EVE takes years!" because how long would it take you to have a capped character in all the different classes in that particular game?
I do agree that skill system is annoying at times(like when the skills take 20+ days to train) but it's like the game is doing the grinding for me. Traveling works towards establishing regional markets and making trading fit into EVE, you aren't meant to be zipping around all across the universe at the snap of your fingers, choose a region, and stick with it. Although it's annoying when you have to make long trips, the traveling time is essential to making EVE work.
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MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
HOw on earth does time traveled MAKE an economy in Eve??? By your words, the more time is spent traveling, the better economy is??? Imagine for a second that there were wormholes in Eve spread around the galaxies, allowing players to reach the other side of the universe in not DAYS of real time flying but lets say 1 hour. How would that effect the economy? It would boost it because now players are encouraged to manufacture pretty much anywhere, they are not forced to choose between a handfull of stars where most of the commerce takes place.
If i were into manufacturing, and travel time wasnt such an issue, then i didnt care that much about where I try to sell my items at. If its a far far system, well, no problem, i know people can travel there in 30 mins if someone realy wanted an item. I know this from my experience - i saw an item i wanted and it was like 2 hours RL traveling from my current location - so I had to drop whatever I was doing, and start traveling, sit by my computer for 2 hours (dont even tell me i can do other stuff because one ganker = no more doing other stuff while warping) just to get that item.. and OMG, what do u know, this is so exciting! Whos ignorant now?
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Dinion. No, i would not like a grinding system. What id like is a system that would let me level my skills at my speed, that means if im good, i will level my skills 10x faster then someone who sux at it. Just like leveling, a hardcore player can level several times faster then a casual or sucky player - and that is their reward for the time invested and for their actual game skills. If yer good - good reward, if yer bad- not so good reward.
Regarding travel time, thank you for not calling me ignorant like the person above you did. My point is - i dont want the warp-to-any-place-in-the-universe system. no, I want a reasonable travel time, the one that doesnt take 2 hours to get a dozen systems away from my current location. Face it, casual players are the bulk of the player base, we dont have time to spend 2 hours, not even 30 minutes on mindless travel. It may work for eceonomy in a strage way I suppose, but it would work so much better if it were faster. Just take real life example, economy booms with faster transportation. In general, traveling in Eve is plain and simple wait-time - its the same as in EQ you have to regain mana/health after each fight, very unfriendly. Well heres a thought, make a much faster travel for people in i duno, shuttles or something, that way you can get to places faster, but dont let big ships travel that fast. That way economy as you know it will not be affected that much, big ships carrying tons of ore wont be able to sell it all in the core system, but at least people who want to buy that missile launcher dont have to spend half a day to grab it.
Even so, with the current system in place, Eve will not get a lot of people playing it. Like i said, the current system is fine for the hardcore diehard people, not for common average gamer Joe. If you or devs want more people in, they need to change something, and who would know more on what needs to be changed then an average Joe? If 1 person tells you your music sux, thats just an opinion, if 100s do that - thats a fact. Dont go calling names someone who shares his experience and concerns and tries to make a suggestion that would actualy may improve the game.
I show a problem, I give you an explanation and a solution. What more is to ask?
Thank you.
PS: sory if i sound a bit angry, i just got called ignorant for trying to make a game better. *steam off*
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Regarding the skills use in combat...
I havent gotten to the top levels, but as far as I know, there are only several clicks needed during a fight, u activate a weapon, maybe some items like shield boost or what have you. Thats pretty much it. During combat, you can have a choice of approximately 5-10 clickable actions. How many clickable options do you have at the high levels? Just to clear up my point, im not saying the strategy side of EO combat is bad, im saying is that during a fight, I dont have a lot of options to choose from. In comparison to WoW, at the mid-level range some classes have up to 40-50 clickable actions they can do to win the fight - skills, potions, talents, bombs, trinkets and other clickable items. Imagine your tactics with that many options!!?? Not many games have that many options. GW for example has only a handfull, so it relies more on the careful precombat choice - but once you are in combat, you are very limited in your options. Your personal skills still play a very important role in the outcome of the fight, but I think the more options you have, the more unpredictable, and thus more interesting combat is.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Ignorance.
A balanced length of travel provides incentive to trade. If you could get everywhere instantly you'd never have high and low prices in regions or high and low sell points because you'd buy the cheapest stuff since it was easily accessible. Wow, that took a lot of thought, maybe you just aren't thinking very hard.
You're still the ignorant one.
What you want is the ability to become better stronger because you live at home without a job and you have 24x7 to play the game. EVE's limit on what you can learn how fast makes you choose and specialize which makes each individual unique. Again you are wrong and miss the very point of EVE. It isn't an issue or a bug, it's the way it is meant to be and it is very well thought out.
EVE has plenty of people playing it and more people who are smarter than you join every day. I introduced my average game friend to the game and he decided to subscribe on his second day and is still going he likes it so much. If 100s tell you something it doesn't mean squat. The majority isn't right all the time because the majority of people are idiots. Claiming that numbers make facts is just plain idiocy.
You don't know how to make a game better because you can't even understand the purpose of the game in the first place.
EVE:
Boring... unless you like watching TV or reading a book while paying to play a video game.
It's got GREAT PVP.
Unfortunately you won't be able to participate in it for at least 2-3 months (people will tell you '1 month if you get in a good corp' but most corps won't even invite you till you have 1mil SP (which takes 2-3 months to get)
To me EVE felt like a job... a bad one at that where over half the time I'm bored out of my skull...
If I want to do a job I'll go to work.. At least there I get paid... not the other way around.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
You can go from stain to tenal in an hr or so and thats the longest distance you can go in eve!
How does lots of jumps help the economy? you just answered that one yourself, you build the stuff ewhere you mine, sell it there, dont move it to another region to sell, the reason ur traveling is all wrong. CCP is trying to make peiople not travel, so that people will live in their own regions, thus regional markets, price fluxes between regions and so on, thats the reason for the extra jumps, ofcourse you can go the short ways, but thats through low sec space so there you have some risk V reward too.
I love people who produce in out of the way systems then move their stuff to hubs where they get into price wars with other idiots, i just buy up everything and move it back to the out of the way systems and sell them for double or tripple
The people who complain about long travel times are mostly too dumb to see that they dont have to travel anywhere (well, not far) to play eve.
If you coldnt instantly go from one side of eve to another then it would be damm impossible to claim space as scounts couldnt see fleets aproaching.
The combat system in eve comprises of pre setup and tactics and then catching the person to fight in a predicament that enhances your setup while really crushing theirs, thats where the player skill comes in:
Selecting setup
Selecting time
selecting enemy
Selecting range
I make about 1000 clicks when im actually fighting, but people who talk about whacking F1-F8 are the people i kill without a problem, take alook at the columns in your over view, your speed, your range and the stats of your guns, i will leave you to figure out what to do with all that...put yet again that would take player skill
J ~
You have very little clue as far as I can read as to how this game works. You want to sit on your ass in front of your monitor all day long and get above those who work and have a life. Playing 24/7 does not equate to skill, it equates to your jobless ass having time to grind, which any chimp can do. EvE relies far more on grey matter (that means brains) than being glued to your PC for 100 hours a week.
Your lack of understanding on the travel times in EvE is incredible. How you fail to see the relevance between travel times and market is stunning. Your exaggaration of the travel times is also incredible. What do you travel in a hauler? No instas? Safe route all the way?
The reason for the "long" travel times is in order for numbskuls like you to get frustrated, and either quit in a sulk, or stay in the same region and create regional variance in market prices.
Bleh I would like to type more but your ignorance is too incredible to waste more of my time.
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MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
Sure it takes a while to go anyway. there are 70 thousand people in one universe, a hell of a lot bigger than any other "shard" "realm" or whatever you want to call them. I've played eve for almost two years now, and i've spent 99% of my game time in just 2 or 3 regions. I personally love EVE's varient and realistic economy, so thats what I do. Do you want loads of PVP, then join an aggressive pvp corp or invading alliance, I'm sure you'll get pvp to your hearts desire.
And of course people don't want to lose their ships. Ships cost money, and money takes time to earn, which therefore makes battle more MEANINFUL. One of the reasons I can never play WoW for long is because there is no risk in doing ANYTHING. Your eq doesn't even get damaged in PVP. Now, if you could actually capture a town or city from the horde or alliance in WoW that would have an effect on the players in that game, now that would make something meaninful, and therefore more interesting.
Well, fine then. People call me ignorant because I try to give a suggestion that would improve the game but OMG, some people sit at home 24/7 and grind their asses till there is no tommorow. No room for casual player at all. If spending an hour watching your ship warp makes you horny, fine by me. EO will never be a hit like EQ2 or WoW because of stubborn people who only see their little room and spit at anyone who doesnt agree with them.
Oh, and the person who thinks hes smart and the rest of the people are idiots - now THATS ignorance.
Id love to see Eve evolve into more casual friendly game, but judging from the hardcore players' reactions, thats not gonna happen. Fine, just play in your universe with 70000 players spread around thousands of stars.
Morphuess, yes you are correct WoW. It would be so much better if it had more tangible PvP rewards. Id love to see WoW implement Planetside style PvP. That would rule.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I agree with the original poster, that game is just a giant waste of time, more so than any other mmo i've played in the last 6-7 years.
Eve seems really interesting when you first start out learning the game, and to be honest the learning curve isnt even as bad as people make out. Then once you figure out the basics, know what your buying/selling, and have to do to get anywhere I realised that its just as repetative as all the other mmo's too.
Eve devs must just be laughing at people whilst raking it in.
Accounting online, but more power to the folks who like it and it aids in sleep disorders.
So what you're saying is that if we don't play the game the way CCP wants us to then we'll be bored.
No offense... that's not a game... that's a job
I don't pay someone money to have a job
A game should entertain ME. I should not have to entertain myself while playing the game.
And, as I have said numerous times. It's not so much the TRAVEL time that irks the living hell out of me, it's the time it takes to gather up cargo after a big fight. That is just flat out annoying. If it weren't for that one thing I would probably still be playing. I got sick of wasting 45 minutes or more of my time looting the cargo after a mission.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
If you spent 45 minutes gathering cargo you have a brain disorder because it isn't that hard...sheesh. I think you just have to learn basic geometry and to learn to fly because if you approach containers in a logical order and do fly bys as you pick em up you can gather it all fairly easily.
Practice makes perfect, quitting and whining does not.
Mhmmm
Someone hasn't been a noob in a long time. Travel for us noobs with under 1mil SP is ***slow***... painfully ***slow*** even in "fast" ships.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Mhmmm
Someone hasn't been a noob in a long time. Travel for us noobs with under 1mil SP is ***slow***... painfully ***slow*** even in "fast" ships.
And once again you are dead wrong. I have a character above a million by a ways and I also have an alternate I play that is below 1 million. I know what it is like, and it isn't bad.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's understandable that you can't graph simple concepts.
Mhmmm
Someone hasn't been a noob in a long time. Travel for us noobs with under 1mil SP is ***slow***... painfully ***slow*** even in "fast" ships.
And once again you are dead wrong. I have a character above a million by a ways and I also have an alternate I play that is below 1 million. I know what it is like, and it isn't bad.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's understandable that you can't graph simple concepts.
What I fail to "graph" is why certain people can't grasp why people don't like EVE.
If you've read my posts at all you would get that I think it's a good game, it's just too much of a time sink for me. I don't enjoy the waiting involved in this game. I'm just not that patient. Nor are the majority of gamers. EVE is a solid MMO and it's a great game, for those who enjoy the style of play it provides. For others, like myself, there are too many time sinks.
And, no, you can't possibly understand or "relate" to what it's like because you are already in a corp that you enjoy. For true new players we don't have that luxury. We have to find a corp that
1) plays during our playtimes (not easy for those of us in the USA)
2) has a decent member count at that time of day/night.
3) will take members who don't have over 1mil SP
That isn't exactly easy to do. As I said in another thread:
IF I could have found a corp that suited me, had anough people on when I am, and would take me with under 1mil SP I would probably still be playing. Because the fact of the matter is that community is what helps a game like EVE to be fun. Without the community of friends to chat with and do things with while *waiting* the game is just that.... *waiting*.... with the community at least you have someone to talk to during all the waiting.
Unfortunately I wasn't as lucky as european new players. They have the luxury of having the bulk of the playerbase playing in thier time zone. So getting 1, 2 and 3 is a lot easier for them.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
I played for about 45 days, and after that amount of time gave up on it. I consider myself a patient person- that's why I gave this game a chance- but it looked like a lot of work was going into it for just a little reward. Obviously, the more time you spend on the game the better it gets, but it seems like its painfully slow getting beyond having the low level ships/items/missions/whatever, and earning a decent amount of money. Maybe I was just doing something wrong, I wasn't sure because specific help was hard to get for a new player. If I can find the time to read a lot more about it and get better advice then I might give it another shot.
No, it wasn't you. The folks that have been playing EVE for several months, or even years, fail to remember is that the lower end of the game is quite boring and very lonely. And it's not nearly as easy to get in a corp now as when they were "young".
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
To put it simple. This game is not for you.
There are other games like CS, BF2 and the like. Please play those game and give away your stuff to some new player in EvE before you leave.. if you havent left already.
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Im for the death penalty. If you commit a terrible crime you should have a harsh punishment...So you learn until next time.
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I don't think this game is for me either! I'm trying the 14 day trial, but the travel time is way too much. 10 minutes of waiting just to get to home base 6 jumps away, and that's a short journey. I can see exactly why someone called it an AFK game.
I have plenty of patience and hate the twitchiness of CS, BF2 etc, but I prefer a bit more action in my games than this! I'm typing this while waiting (again) for my ship to arrive at it's destination! I'm not too keen on the idea of a game I can play while surfing the net or doing the housework!