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There are very few hardcore games left. The rest =carebear
skelz
Member Posts: 77
Eve online was non carebear. You could lose your whole battleship to another player if he decided to blow it up. Perhaps it has changed since i played it a year ago
UO- You could loot items of corpses after pking them. Haevnt played it in years but it still stand out clearly in my mind as a great pvp game. However they F'd it up after putting in pvp penalties.
Shadowbane-You could pickpcoket items, and gank other players.
Conquest online-You can pvp any level and loot what they drop. The game kinda sux but still its pvp
Lineage and #2-both incredibly hard games to level up in which is what turned me and even part 2 had some pvp penalties.
What else is left that is non carebearish? Im looking for suggestions on hardcore pvp games i can play that are free or not free.
Comments
This link might interest you.
http://www.mpog.com/discussion.cfm?load=forums&loadforum=51&loadthread=51094&setstart=1&loadclass=35&fp=1280,1024,1625602562,20050920140511
Scroll down to a guy named nthnaoun who says;
"well i dont know of any out there currently youd be interested in but irth online and roma victor will both be free and will be out soon. i suggest playing whatever your playing now until one of those comes out."
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
i agree with u.
there really are a few full pvp games left.
but they would not take the pvp out of a game without a reason.
I see your point. However the same thing is done in non hardcore pvp games, such as WOW.
In fact people still play UO to this day and the game was jam packed with griefers and pvpers.
What im hoping on is a game, such as WOW that has a dedicated pvp server for the griefers, pvpers, and those hoping for a bit more of a challange.
I see your point. However the same thing is done in non hardcore pvp games, such as WOW.
In fact people still play UO to this day and the game was jam packed with griefers and pvpers.
What im hoping on is a game, such as WOW that has a dedicated pvp server for the griefers, pvpers, and those hoping for a bit more of a challange.
And I agree with you. If you allow people to choose a server or select their character to be open pvp then they know what they are getting into. But I think most people want a choice. Opening a whole server would be very cool.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
As has been pointed out many times before, a pvp game is not going to be worth anything unless it is developed for pvp from the ground up. A pvp server just doesn't work if the game has been designed for a pve environment.
From a roleplaying standpoint, RvR, arena only combat, instanced areas, etc. are not a valid solution either.
What we need is someone to develop a game for the pvp niche market. Then you could have your roleplay server and your griefer server. The roleplay server would probably require a strong faction systyem and/or GM oversight to make the game work.
I, for one, am ready and waiting.
Ding, ding, ding...
Give this guy an A+ for paying attention to some of the underlying problems in MMOs. You must be reading my posts.
To the OP: are you stating that you think the "carebear" trend is from the games or the players? Put another way, are there fewer "hardcore" games because people don't like them, or fewer hardcore gamers because they don't have games to play?
~PD
www.TheChippedDagger.com My 90-day 2D Java MMORPG project
They that can give up essential liberty for temporary safetey deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. -- Milton Berle
Ding, ding, ding...
Give this guy an A+ for paying attention to some of the underlying problems in MMOs. You must be reading my posts.
To the OP: are you stating that you think the "carebear" trend is from the games or the players? Put another way, are there fewer "hardcore" games because people don't like them, or fewer hardcore gamers because they don't have games to play?
~PD
I would think the latest "carebear" trend would have to come from the game makers.
Every pvp game I have played that has been good in my eyes is still being played by people wich to me says, since there is nothing else worth playing(pvp) we might as well stay here. I think this means that companies are catering to the carebear type of player and only focusing on PVE. There is nothing wrong with that, nor is there anything wrong with being a "carebear" but it seems that you cant have both in a game without ruining the gameplay for some people. You can see how UO turned out. The pvpers ruined the game for the PVE'ers and in turn the PVE'rs complained and ruined the game for the PVPers. They got the gama makers to set strict rules and harsh penalties on and evil players. I was one of those players and I quickly found myself not enjoying the game like I did at release.
It seems the companies feel there is a bigger market for PVE than there is PVP and perhaps they are right..I mean just look at the WOW numbers compared to something like shadowbane.
Asherons call and Eve online have probably been the best games I have ever played simply because I felt like I had something to gain and something much more to lose. I haev played every popular MMO and just didnt get the feel that I did from those games which I loved so much.
anyhow enough of my ramblings. My work day is over.
adios
How is it that there are very few left when these games are still around and more are on the way?
Dark and Light has a system for PVP that might be implemented that you might like. It has 12 regions, the 2 starting regions are non-pvp; everything else is, and was designed as a struggle to control the region. The system even rewards you for taking a region and killing other players. It does have some balancing done to it as well.
The world has many time effect buffs, such as the stellar position can give your character a stat boost. One of these buffs is the difference between levels. Sure you can pvp a lower level player, but when you initiate combat with them a god intervenes and grants power to the lower level one in order to make the fight fair. If the lower one should lose then when they return to thier body they are temporarily granted even more power; which would probably kill a griefer.
There is no signifigant demand for a PvP based game.
RYL was the best pvp I think. I mean, you could chalange someone to duel, or you could just go hunt.
I also like Ferentus. They have guild vs. guild seiges. And pvp zones. So it all works out.
RF Online|LostGrace-3x Cora Caster-Spirit Server-Active
Lineage 2|LostGrace-4x Elemental Summoner-Gustin Server-Deactivated, Kiltor-3x Elven Oracle-Gustin Server-Baned T_T
Check out Age of Conan which will be comming out next year.. The Developer talks about opening different servers that will have different rules.. Including a FFA type of server for the greifers pkers and others that just want to run around ganking and taking items...
Personally im glad most games are not like this nowadays.. The people are just ass's now and the internet allows them to be much worse then they would be in person since people cant put there hands around there scrawny little necks...AOC seems to understand that there are those type of people in the world and by what the dev says they will have there own personal server.
One last thing I wil say on this topic.. I would have no problem with ffa loot all pvp if people would actually stop being cowards IE ganging up on others or fighting people much weaker then them.... But since people in general are cowards this will never happen, so im glad most MMORPG's have penalties.
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Christ Almighty, not another one of these threads. Lets go through it ONE MORE TIME.
Its all marketing. Game designers see that most people who want to play MMO's are people who a) don't have time to keep up with "hardcore" games, b) just want a nice fantasy RPing game that they can get into or c) don't want to be repeatedly killed by some 12 year old. In turn, the game designers take this knowledge, and make a game most people would like and PAY FOR (thats our key word here). Now on the other side, they see that quite a few "hardcore" people have no base income, or basically get their money from daddy (not always the case, but can you really disagree with me on that one). They also see that "hardcore" MMO gamers are the minority of the MMO market. Using that knowledge, they usually steer clear of them because of the simple fact that their paycheck will be less fat because of a slight lack of players (compared to EQ for example). Take Shadowbane. Hardcore PvP, but a SEVERE LACK OF PLAYERS. Because hardcore gamers are the minority. Also more simple reasoning with this fact, the graphics aren't that good (im not complaining, i don't give a damn about graphics) seeing as how quite a few hardcore MMO'ers are kids, they stick their nose up at this because of the graphics. Look at it this way. You make a game for a group of people. Would you rather make a game that all but one love and would pay for, or would you make the game for that one person?
If any of my reasoning is incorrect, please correct it for me. And please, DON'T bash this because of the "kids turning up games because of graphics" or "kids usually are assholes in games". Seriously, can you really disagree there?
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
so in order for a game to be labeled "hardcore" theres has to be open pvp with full loot with no penelty? whats hardcore about griefing lower lvl's just so you can ruin their game experience? look at darkfall's pvp rules...... that to me is "hardcore"..... sure its open pvp and full loot, but if you decide to gank people just for fun your toon will become evil and be kos to every major city in the world.
i am a hardcore mmorpg player.... just because a game dosent have open pvp and loot dosent mean its not hardcore. look at games like eq (now thats hardcore hehe) its a pve game but very hardcore imo. bottom line is....
pvp must have meaning, not just mindless griefing..... if a game is challanging or "hard" then you could say its a hardcore game..... but just because a game has open pvp and promotes griefing does not mean its hardcore in my book.
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
imho EVE online executed Open PVP the best. just because i never had ran into anyone that would be a jerk and most of hte people i met were nice.
take a look at CoV m8
, if we are lucky we got an PvP revolution on the Stairs 
http://www.guildvsguild.com/nuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=319&mode=&order=0&thold=0
but Ofcouse we cant say anything before we have the game in our hands
MvH UbiNax
PS: i totally agree whit you skelz, where did the hardcore pvp-game's go?
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sorry for my bad english.
I think EVE is one of the only one left. (I respect your use of WoW slang,but please stop saying carebear)
This guy seems to be similiar to Horsas....hmmmmm
I am so damn sick and tired of this "carebear" label. Many say we complain nonstop, but lately you "Harcore" people are doing the whining. Forgive me if you are new, but ive seen far to many of these and im just too sick of it. We dont like being killed and losing everything we own. Please deal with this fact.
There are not enough players wanting Harcore PvP to make it profittable, and it always turns into a noob-unfriendly game.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
Harmony Bear is my favorite Carebear.
...
This is where I draw the line: __________________.
I second Gamewiz fully. We like to slowly ease ourselves into a game and get familiar with it, not try to figure out how to run for our lives in 4 seconds because some level 48 is chasing you. Then we lose ALL of our noob items, then what are we stuck with? No weapon, so armor, no gold to buy any of those necessities. We have to roll a new damn character.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
I think a game that gave you a reason to pvp would be alot funner than going around ganking people. Like waging war on a guild, fighting for the right to camp an are and so on. Be alot funner than getting in a group and running around looking for someone out farming to kill, that get old like shadowbane.
I agree with Gamewize too. You might at least denote your opinion as such, and furthermore refrain from disparaging what you say are the majority of games. You can make argument after argument about how PVP is better than PVE, and it won't matter as long as people don't like it, for whatever reason. In fact, I'm so sick and tired of those people that support PVP that also put down every single title that doesn't cater to the style of gameplay they prefer that I practically despise EvE without ever playing it. Simply because I've been told, over and over, indirectly or directly, that I'm somehow inferrior because I've failed to grind up in it for four months and partaken in a kind of system that I don't even have a remote fondness for. And I look to Roma Victor as an oasis for hopefully stopping the flood of "The games you like suck because they don't have enough PVP".
You might as well diss my favorite flavor of ice cream while promoting your own because it incorporates the awesome power of almonds. Which takes the ice cream experience to a whole new level to by varying the texture of the dessert with chunks of non-sweet nourishment. That I might not like almonds in the first place seems to have no bearing in my choice of frozen confection.
You're not going to change my opinion about PVP by telling me what I like is lousy and that I'm a carebear. Those days are long, long over, according your own complaint. For whatever reason at this point in time, there are enough people to keep a lot of so-called carebear games afloat. Tastes will certainly change in the future, and no doubt there exists a market for "hardcore" PVP games. I, for one, am not going to put that down just because it has a PVP system I don't like. I might say "I don't like it", and I probably won't play it.
Of course, this is probably a waste of time. No matter how well crafted my counter points, I'm a stupid carebear gamer and apparently know nothing about what I will actually find fun. Ultimately, your opinions about what I like have absolutely no bearing anyway. The only reason I'm writing a response at all is that every week I look in, I see another thread that basically implies I'm some kind of moron for liking the games I do and my irritation has finally triumphed.
To sum up, you're not making a case for PVP. You can't make people enjoy something they don't enjoy. In the end, how fun a game is is a purely subjective, relative thing. You can only quantify features that groups of players have liked in the past or like in present games in order to suggest that a game might be good or bad.
I hate PVP in most games, because in most games it is level based.. They should make it a bit like Planetside, where a guy that has purchased the game 3 months before release, still has the ability to kill players who have been playing it since release, it simply is alot harder to do.
Thats how I think RPG-PVP should also be, where 2 low levels can easily kill a high level if they do it right, yet in most rpg's a level 1 player trying to hit a level 50 one, simply can't hit him! There's no realism and IMHO, no fun in that.