- Leveling system(takes too many months to get to a level you can aid your friends in PvP or get to the real "content of the game).
- Money(people just get too rich, only trade/merchant classes should be making the real money and warriors should make alot less than them but get all the action)
- Point & Click(this system has been used to death and its about time we try get some more FPS style in there, MXO at least improved on it with more visuals/physical contact between 2 opponents,, Age of conan and Roma victor will have FPS elements and both look very promising.
RV is going to be alot like Eve Online but in a historical setting (and no fantasy/magic YAY!), economy will be the drive of this game, you'll need your guild members help to get the best equipment you can make/afford to attack/defend the other guilds over territory. my personal goal will be to get the romans off britain ^_^ oh and this MMORPG is no monthly sub. Its also going to be possible to take control of rome if you kill the emperor.
www.roma-victor.com is definitly worth a look(dont judge graphics at present time as they're all taken when on lowest spec).
I think mmorpg's should have both PVP and PVE but you should be able to chose between them, either by being able to chose between PVP and PVE servers or as in EQ (at least it was like some years ago) where you could walk up to an NPC and join the "Order of discord" (or something like that) then the players who have joined the order where PVP players (but they where only capable of killing each other) and there was RvR arenas.
I have read all your replies but there is just to much to quote.
First of all there is nothing wrong with being a carebear, a hardcore gamer, a weekend warrior etc etc. Some of us want to grief others, loot them...some of us dont want to do that at all, some of us want RvR, and some of us want other content in games.
I didnt start this thread to say my idea of a game is better than yours. No, I started this thread to discuss how there is a lack of the type of games which attract me. The games on the shelves or available for download revolve mainly around carebearish type games or carbeearish type pvp. As i said there is nothing wrong with this, but its annoying when you want something a little bit more hardcore and the only thing available are a select few games which you may or may not have played before.
Originally posted by seabass2003 The reason there are very few true pvp games is because of the players themselves ruin the game. Here is my example pf why. Player 1 hurries to level up and get to level 50. Player 2 just got his copy of the game 3 months after Player 1. Player 1 kills Player 2 who is only level 5. Then Player 1 talks smack and camps Player 2's body so when he comes back he kills him again. Repeat. Player 2 realizes he will never be able to level his character because of jackass Player 1. Player 2 says "Fcuk this game I'm cancelling." Player 2 finds other players to do this to and they also quit the game. Player 1 has singlehandedly destroyed a PvP game. This is why a true open PvP game will probably never work or will have a very low subscribtion rate. I have nothing against PvP, I actually enjoy it because its always more challenging to kill another PC than an AI NPC, but if you don't restrict it somewhat it will be ruined by the people who abuse their abilities.
Thats exactly why PVP does'nt work in mmorpgs, Ultima Online is your proof. Pvp will never work in mmorpgs untill the new guy can compete with the player whos been around a few months. But really pvp in mmorpgs is a joke anyway, I hardly call targeting a player, spamming a skill button while standing still untill hes dead pvp, player with higher stats, items, connection ect wins. Real pvp is games like counterstrike and unreal tournament and until mmorpgs get a real twitch system of play were you actually time your sword strikes and combos for example ill never take pvp in mmorpg's seriously.
Originally posted by Gamewize This guy seems to be similiar to Horsas....hmmmmm
Exactly what I was thinking, look at his register date too!
Originally posted by LlamaLord Thats exactly why PVP does'nt work in mmorpgs, Ultima Online is your proof. Pvp will never work in mmorpgs untill the new guy can compete with the player whos been around a few months. But really pvp in mmorpgs is a joke anyway, I hardly call targeting a player, spamming a skill button while standing still untill hes dead pvp, player with higher stats, items, connection ect wins. Real pvp is games like counterstrike and unreal tournament and until mmorpgs get a real twitch system of play were you actually time your sword strikes and combos for example ill never take pvp in mmorpg's seriously.
You want to take the RPG out of MMORPG, wait then add FPS and you get MMOFPS! Have you tried planetside or that World War II game?
---------------------------------- MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
A quick sidenote to Skelz: You used the term "carebear" which implies a PvP superiority. We've had far too many trolls walk onto the board and declare themselves to be the definition of "Xtreme 3l33t H4rdC0r3" and then slam everyone else for being "carebears". You're post brings back memories of these assholes and stirrs up anger at such behavior, regardless of whether you truely displayed that mentality.
As far as PvP in an RPG is concerned.... You can argue that it's all about stats, equipment, and connection speed, but in most FPS games the first thing you learn is not to pick a fight until you have a bigger gun, full armour, and the 200+ health boost. You also should nab Quad damage before slugging it out too. I also distinctly remember going through a progression of faster modems just to stay competetive in Duke Nukem, Quake 2, and eventually Unreal Tournament and Counter-strike. Most types of games are like this PvP. Get there first, with the most and you'll be able to win every time. I can also remember a ladder arena server that I played on NWN. You were restricted to a particular arena by level and the game was played in rounds. You were given a certain amount of gold to buy equipment before entering the Dungeon arena in between rounds. When you died during a round, you were out for that round and everyone had the right to loot your corpse. Everything you looted was carried between rounds. Then, after a set number of rounds, the player that came out on top would get to level and move on to the next arena in the ladder. This was probably the most fun I ever had in NWN. So yeah, it is possible to have really good PvP in an RPG, but it has to be balanced. And here is where we have the problem with the "hardcore" PvP PKer......
Having open PvP in a persistant world with full loot promotes the practice of stacking the odds in your favor. It encourages griefing and ganking. For most of us, winning or losing is enough. We feel good about winning and don't feel the need to take the loser's lunch money, paycheck, girlfriend, or the deed to their family farm. Yet "hardcore" PKers insist that death/failure have some kind of "sting" to it. You just get images of some 12 year old kid laughing to himself as he envisions the player on the other side in tears. Of course, you can also envision a 12 year old kid throwing a temper tantrum after he recieves the same from someone else under similar conditions. Wanting to punish someone for losing to you is not exactly the behavior of a person that thinks highly of themselves. PKers seem to have this desperate need to feel superior. They seem to tie their personal worth into their game perfomance. They just don't seem to understand that being better at a game won't make them any less inadequate than they already privately perceive themselves to be.
In short, there are those that truely are "hardcore" PvPers and there are punks that just want PvP so they can gank, grief, and somehow get a sense of control over others. PvPers always want a fair fight, punks just want to win and talk shit. Know which category you fall into.
Great article thats all I though was missing from COH and now they seem to have heard peoples crys... The game that has the best combat of any MMORPG on the market will soon have the best PVP of any MMORPG on the market.. IF they can actually pull it off correctly looks like WOW will loose alot of customers that yearn for PVP with meaning.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by Gamewize This guy seems to be similiar to Horsas....hmmmmm
Exactly what I was thinking, look at his register date too!
Originally posted by LlamaLord Thats exactly why PVP does'nt work in mmorpgs, Ultima Online is your proof. Pvp will never work in mmorpgs untill the new guy can compete with the player whos been around a few months. But really pvp in mmorpgs is a joke anyway, I hardly call targeting a player, spamming a skill button while standing still untill hes dead pvp, player with higher stats, items, connection ect wins. Real pvp is games like counterstrike and unreal tournament and until mmorpgs get a real twitch system of play were you actually time your sword strikes and combos for example ill never take pvp in mmorpg's seriously.
You want to take the RPG out of MMORPG, wait then add FPS and you get MMOFPS! Have you tried planetside or that World War II game?
Read the post properly i never said anything about replacing rpg with fps *slaps head*. I was refering to fps as an example of true pvp on a computer. Im talking about pvp that requires real skill on the players part, not high stats and queing skills. I want to be able to fight like in a single player game Severence Blade of Darkness for example, theres not many single player games were you stand still and spam skills, why? Because there boring, why should we have to play like that in a mmorpg?
Originally posted by Gamewize This guy seems to be similiar to Horsas....hmmmmm
Exactly what I was thinking, look at his register date too!
Originally posted by LlamaLord Thats exactly why PVP does'nt work in mmorpgs, Ultima Online is your proof. Pvp will never work in mmorpgs untill the new guy can compete with the player whos been around a few months. But really pvp in mmorpgs is a joke anyway, I hardly call targeting a player, spamming a skill button while standing still untill hes dead pvp, player with higher stats, items, connection ect wins. Real pvp is games like counterstrike and unreal tournament and until mmorpgs get a real twitch system of play were you actually time your sword strikes and combos for example ill never take pvp in mmorpg's seriously.
You want to take the RPG out of MMORPG, wait then add FPS and you get MMOFPS! Have you tried planetside or that World War II game?
Read the post properly i never said anything about replacing rpg with fps *slaps head*. I was refering to fps as an example of true pvp on a computer. Im talking about pvp that requires real skill on the players part, not high stats and queing skills. I want to be able to fight like in a single player game Severence Blade of Darkness for example, theres not many single player games were you stand still and spam skills, why? Because there boring, why should we have to play like that in a mmorpg?
Actually, you are spamming skills in games like Morrowind, Arx Fatalis, Mount & Blade, and even Diablo. You're just doing so fast that you don't really notice it. those games give a really nice illusion of being real time without actually being realtime. At least not in the sense of Unreal Tournament or Mortal Kombat.
Originally posted by LlamaLord Read the post properly i never said anything about replacing rpg with fps *slaps head*. I was refering to fps as an example of true pvp on a computer. Im talking about pvp that requires real skill on the players part, not high stats and queing skills. I want to be able to fight like in a single player game Severence Blade of Darkness for example, theres not many single player games were you stand still and spam skills, why? Because there boring, why should we have to play like that in a mmorpg?
Basicly what I read is that you don't like the RPG factor where items and stats determine who has a better chance of winning, you want a game where everyone has an equal chance no matter how long they've been playing and it has to be twitch combat(basicly an FPS). I've never played " Severence Blade of Darkness" so if you're refering to a cross between twitch combat and stats/items then OK ! Else you're really in the wrong genre.
---------------------------------- MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe Actually, you are spamming skills in games like Morrowind, Arx Fatalis, Mount & Blade, and even Diablo. You're just doing so fast that you don't really notice it. those games give a really nice illusion of being real time without actually being realtime. At least not in the sense of Unreal Tournament or Mortal Kombat.
Yes maybe your right about diablo, and morrowind to a certain extent but it does require you to time your blows and aim your spells, most mmorpgs cant even do that but how do you spam skills in Mount and Blade? That game takes skill on the players part and if a mmorpg had the combat system that game provides it would be the best combat system in any mmorpg ive played and would make pvp intresting and worth doing.
Originally posted by galapagos As has been pointed out many times before, a pvp game is not going to be worth anything unless it is developed for pvp from the ground up. A pvp server just doesn't work if the game has been designed for a pve environment. From a roleplaying standpoint, RvR, arena only combat, instanced areas, etc. are not a valid solution either. What we need is someone to develop a game for the pvp niche market. Then you could have your roleplay server and your griefer server. The roleplay server would probably require a strong faction systyem and/or GM oversight to make the game work. I, for one, am ready and waiting.
I think a lot of us are ready and waiting. I have high hopes for Irth Online and Darkfall, but the market for hardcore pvp games dictates that a small company make it. I hope a good one comes out soon.
When you refer to other games as "carebear" games, you're implying that it's for little wimps who don't want to fight other players. I'll tell you what. Go play Martial Heroes (formally known as d.o. online) where their PvP is COMPLETELY open. Also let me tell you that you're open game at level 36, and that getting into a guild/clan can start at 36. What's the catch? Oh, you need 100 fame, which is gotten from PvP OR killing things higher than you, but it's VERY random. Also, even if you join the "Chaotic" side, you still get screwed, mainly because "chaotic" assassins use their hide skill and troll the areas around where you HAVE to go at level 36, and they're all at LEAST 48 or higher, and you have no chance.
NOW do you see why a lot of devs DON'T put open PvP in their games? It's because the simple fact that it adds at LEAST a year to the dev cycle (as they have to balance each class and or race to each other), and to top that off, it scares away new players. What's the point in playing a game if the areas you want to go level in are camped by higher level people with higher stats and better gear? You don't have a chance.
Now, for my obligatory "jab" at the "1337 |-|/XX04" community.
"OMG CAREBEARS ARE TEH SUCK. PVP ARE SO BETTER. LOL! PLZ MAKE MORE PVP GAMES SO I CAN PWN SOME NUBS!"
Just so you know, some of us are playing whatever MMO we're playing for the community...not for the gameplay alone. I myself loved Everquest because open PvP was restricted to certain servers, and I still believe to this day that the policy they had is the best.
I don't think PvP has any business in MMORPG's anymore. There are more PvP players out there than every MMORPG combined- they're called FPS gamers- and they're increasingly coming online and discovering the joys of small servers... but they'll tire of those soon.
Eventually they'll be turned on to the promiscuity of games like planetside- where you can get it on with a new partner every minute. Anyway the industry is full of stupid nerds and they haven't been turned onto to this. Eventually FPS is going to dwarf RPG- just like in real life. Everyone remembers those few odd nerds from highschool who brough in multi sided dice and pen and paper and made up stats and monsters and what not. You guys are nerds- you're the niche market- and you're gonna be shocked when the industry matures and MMORPG is left in the dust.
guns + explosions > swords + mythical creatures.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Originally posted by goneglockin I don't think PvP has any business in MMORPG's anymore. There are more PvP players out there than every MMORPG combined- they're called FPS gamers- and they're increasingly coming online and discovering the joys of small servers... but they'll tire of those soon. Eventually they'll be turned on to the promiscuity of games like planetside- where you can get it on with a new partner every minute. Anyway the industry is full of stupid nerds and they haven't been turned onto to this. Eventually FPS is going to dwarf RPG- just like in real life. Everyone remembers those few odd nerds from highschool who brough in multi sided dice and pen and paper and made up stats and monsters and what not. You guys are nerds- you're the niche market- and you're gonna be shocked when the industry matures and MMORPG is left in the dust. guns + explosions > swords + mythical creatures.
I believe it does. While FPS is more along thinking of your toes. It does not exactly battle wits. You're trying to outsmart the other person, it's not about who gets the upper-advantage but of 'how' to get it.
Originally posted by Zhanghia Originally posted by goneglockin I don't think PvP has any business in MMORPG's anymore. There are more PvP players out there than every MMORPG combined- they're called FPS gamers- and they're increasingly coming online and discovering the joys of small servers... but they'll tire of those soon. Eventually they'll be turned on to the promiscuity of games like planetside- where you can get it on with a new partner every minute. Anyway the industry is full of stupid nerds and they haven't been turned onto to this. Eventually FPS is going to dwarf RPG- just like in real life. Everyone remembers those few odd nerds from highschool who brough in multi sided dice and pen and paper and made up stats and monsters and what not. You guys are nerds- you're the niche market- and you're gonna be shocked when the industry matures and MMORPG is left in the dust. guns + explosions > swords + mythical creatures.
I believe it does. While FPS is more along thinking of your toes. It does not exactly battle wits. You're trying to outsmart the other person, it's not about who gets the upper-advantage but of 'how' to get it.
The only true way to have "fair" PvP, would be to make everyone the same level, with access to equivalent gear and skills/spell. They're trying that experiment with RYL: Battle Lohan. Everyone's level 40 with the same grade gear. Other than that, there's always a bully or 20 who like to sit there mowing down lower level characters who don't have the stats, gear, or skills to fight back fairly.
I think hard core players are people with no lifes, sex lifes, or social lifes. I mean, if you are able to play 11-15 hours a day, well, I believe that speaks for itself.
Originally posted by DarkHeart2 I think hard core players are people with no lifes, sex lifes, or social lifes. I mean, if you are able to play 11-15 hours a day, well, I believe that speaks for itself.
Originally posted by galapagos As has been pointed out many times before, a pvp game is not going to be worth anything unless it is developed for pvp from the ground up. A pvp server just doesn't work if the game has been designed for a pve environment. From a roleplaying standpoint, RvR, arena only combat, instanced areas, etc. are not a valid solution either. What we need is someone to develop a game for the pvp niche market. Then you could have your roleplay server and your griefer server. The roleplay server would probably require a strong faction systyem and/or GM oversight to make the game work. I, for one, am ready and waiting.
/AGREED
Realm vs Realm pvp turns me off completely. I hate being designated who I can or cannot fight.
Sever was open pvp from day 1 and is still going strong, although the game has dropped off considerably due to age.
Darktide was HARSH, to say the least, you would be fighting all the time, alot of the time you'd lose and you would be ganked often but you learned to live with it or you quit, period. That's the way the players who stuck to DT liked it and in fact for the first few years it was common practice to camp newb areas where players first came into the server to "initiate" them. This was your right of passage to remain on the server and most guilds wouldnt even recruit you if you didn't prove yourself by leveling to level 20 (or later on 50) on your own, proving your self-sustained and not a carebear beggar.
Also note, if you play an open pvp game and quit because you get ganked a few times than the game is better off with you gone. The reason why carebear games attract more people is because the mindless "casual" gamers hate the fact that they cant play for 20 mins a week and compete with the "hardcore" gamers. Of course, this is due largely to the fact that most of these people are lazy and refuse to grind in any game to get a decent character and as such whine until the Devs nerf the game to one of 2 extremeties:
1) They neuter pvp, taking away all the risk, reward and fun (they did this on AC with pklite)
2) They make leveling extremely easy so that "casual" players who dedicate 1/20th the amount of time to the game can have uber characters, thus nagating the time and effort real players put into their characters tenfold (they also did this on AC)
It's the whiny "pubbies" that ruin most pvp games, they don't join clans/allegiances/groups to fight back (this should be the first logical course of action, and yet, here we are), they don't think of finding somewhere else to hunt, they just run to the same spot where they just got ganked over and over and over like lemmings.
And when they die, they either spam with obscenities, whine/beg/plead or threaten to get the killers banned. ..
Basically, you can't have a open pvp type game because most people can't handle that level of challenge and gameplay. Most people can't handle losing over and over and realizing that in these types of game you have to pay your dues before you can go around stomping on n00bs. Most people just plain suck at pvp in general
Hardcore PvP is pretty much dead in my mind, until a game comes along that actually does it properly again like pre-tram UO and AC.
Also, Blitzz, your assumption that anybody who's "hardcore" is automatically a kid is absurd and quite ignorant. Some people enjoy playing a game "casually" (aka. barely ever) while others actually like to achieve things in the game and have characters who are developed fully and experience the end-game. I'm definately one of those people and I fail to see the logic in playing an RPG where the game focuses entirely on levels and skills and numbers and then playing for 10 mins a day and wondering why your friends can go to all the cool new places in the game and you can't. The solution is quite simple, don't play MMOs or even RPGs for that matter if you cannot invest time in them, these aren't the type of games you can just pickup for 10 mins a week and stay competitive at (unless it's a hybrid like GuildWars). People need to accept this fact and learn that if you want a quick competition that you can pickup in 10 mins, they should stick to FPS games. Playing a MMO casually is a waste of time and money in my opinion becuase you're just robbing yourself of a ton of content that you PAY for.
Personally, I love pvp in games and sure I understand some people don't like it and don't want to be a part of it, but if you join a pvp game and then get pissed off because some random person in the game ganks you repeatedly, you really need to evaluate your choice of game. If you want an easy ride with great PvE content, play offline single player RPGs, they have boundless depth compared to most MMOs for a fraction of the cost. And please, PLEASE! stay off the !PK! servers unless you can handle losing, I know it's hard to wrap your head around the fact that you can't always win but this is a concept you need to get ahold of before you plod into the gameworld like a mindless drudge.
but when you're prepared to admit that you can't beat everyone all of the time, and you realize that losing isn't the end of the world, THEN buckle down, put your nose to the grindstone and kick some ***
Comments
the current problems with mmorpgs
- Leveling system(takes too many months to get to a level you can aid your friends in PvP or get to the real "content of the game).
- Money(people just get too rich, only trade/merchant classes should be making the real money and warriors should make alot less than them but get all the action)
- Point & Click(this system has been used to death and its about time we try get some more FPS style in there, MXO at least improved on it with more visuals/physical contact between 2 opponents,, Age of conan and Roma victor will have FPS elements and both look very promising.
RV is going to be alot like Eve Online but in a historical setting (and no fantasy/magic YAY!), economy will be the drive of this game, you'll need your guild members help to get the best equipment you can make/afford to attack/defend the other guilds over territory. my personal goal will be to get the romans off britain ^_^ oh and this MMORPG is no monthly sub. Its also going to be possible to take control of rome if you kill the emperor.
www.roma-victor.com is definitly worth a look(dont judge graphics at present time as they're all taken when on lowest spec).
I think mmorpg's should have both PVP and PVE but you should be able to chose between them, either by being able to chose between PVP and PVE servers or as in EQ (at least it was like some years ago) where you could walk up to an NPC and join the "Order of discord" (or something like that) then the players who have joined the order where PVP players (but they where only capable of killing each other) and there was RvR arenas.
//Walbus
I have read all your replies but there is just to much to quote.
First of all there is nothing wrong with being a carebear, a hardcore gamer, a weekend warrior etc etc. Some of us want to grief others, loot them...some of us dont want to do that at all, some of us want RvR, and some of us want other content in games.
I didnt start this thread to say my idea of a game is better than yours. No, I started this thread to discuss how there is a lack of the type of games which attract me. The games on the shelves or available for download revolve mainly around carebearish type games or carbeearish type pvp. As i said there is nothing wrong with this, but its annoying when you want something a little bit more hardcore and the only thing available are a select few games which you may or may not have played before.
Exactly what I was thinking, look at his register date too!
You want to take the RPG out of MMORPG,----------------------------------
MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
A quick sidenote to Skelz: You used the term "carebear" which implies a PvP superiority. We've had far too many trolls walk onto the board and declare themselves to be the definition of "Xtreme 3l33t H4rdC0r3" and then slam everyone else for being "carebears". You're post brings back memories of these assholes and stirrs up anger at such behavior, regardless of whether you truely displayed that mentality.
As far as PvP in an RPG is concerned.... You can argue that it's all about stats, equipment, and connection speed, but in most FPS games the first thing you learn is not to pick a fight until you have a bigger gun, full armour, and the 200+ health boost. You also should nab Quad damage before slugging it out too. I also distinctly remember going through a progression of faster modems just to stay competetive in Duke Nukem, Quake 2, and eventually Unreal Tournament and Counter-strike. Most types of games are like this PvP. Get there first, with the most and you'll be able to win every time. I can also remember a ladder arena server that I played on NWN. You were restricted to a particular arena by level and the game was played in rounds. You were given a certain amount of gold to buy equipment before entering the Dungeon arena in between rounds. When you died during a round, you were out for that round and everyone had the right to loot your corpse. Everything you looted was carried between rounds. Then, after a set number of rounds, the player that came out on top would get to level and move on to the next arena in the ladder. This was probably the most fun I ever had in NWN. So yeah, it is possible to have really good PvP in an RPG, but it has to be balanced. And here is where we have the problem with the "hardcore" PvP PKer......
Having open PvP in a persistant world with full loot promotes the practice of stacking the odds in your favor. It encourages griefing and ganking. For most of us, winning or losing is enough. We feel good about winning and don't feel the need to take the loser's lunch money, paycheck, girlfriend, or the deed to their family farm. Yet "hardcore" PKers insist that death/failure have some kind of "sting" to it. You just get images of some 12 year old kid laughing to himself as he envisions the player on the other side in tears. Of course, you can also envision a 12 year old kid throwing a temper tantrum after he recieves the same from someone else under similar conditions. Wanting to punish someone for losing to you is not exactly the behavior of a person that thinks highly of themselves. PKers seem to have this desperate need to feel superior. They seem to tie their personal worth into their game perfomance. They just don't seem to understand that being better at a game won't make them any less inadequate than they already privately perceive themselves to be.
In short, there are those that truely are "hardcore" PvPers and there are punks that just want PvP so they can gank, grief, and somehow get a sense of control over others. PvPers always want a fair fight, punks just want to win and talk shit. Know which category you fall into.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Exactly what I was thinking, look at his register date too!
You want to take the RPG out of MMORPG,Read the post properly i never said anything about replacing rpg with fps *slaps head*. I was refering to fps as an example of true pvp on a computer. Im talking about pvp that requires real skill on the players part, not high stats and queing skills. I want to be able to fight like in a single player game Severence Blade of Darkness for example, theres not many single player games were you stand still and spam skills, why? Because there boring, why should we have to play like that in a mmorpg?
Exactly what I was thinking, look at his register date too!
You want to take the RPG out of MMORPG,Read the post properly i never said anything about replacing rpg with fps *slaps head*. I was refering to fps as an example of true pvp on a computer. Im talking about pvp that requires real skill on the players part, not high stats and queing skills. I want to be able to fight like in a single player game Severence Blade of Darkness for example, theres not many single player games were you stand still and spam skills, why? Because there boring, why should we have to play like that in a mmorpg?
Actually, you are spamming skills in games like Morrowind, Arx Fatalis, Mount & Blade, and even Diablo. You're just doing so fast that you don't really notice it. those games give a really nice illusion of being real time without actually being realtime. At least not in the sense of Unreal Tournament or Mortal Kombat.
----------------------------------
MMOs Retired From: Earth and Beyond, Project Entropia, There, A Tale in the Desert, Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, Eve Online, City of Heroes/Villains.
MMOs Currently (worth) Playing: None.
MMO hopefuls: Age of Conan.
Yes maybe your right about diablo, and morrowind to a certain extent but it does require you to time your blows and aim your spells, most mmorpgs cant even do that but how do you spam skills in Mount and Blade? That game takes skill on the players part and if a mmorpg had the combat system that game provides it would be the best combat system in any mmorpg ive played and would make pvp intresting and worth doing.
When you refer to other games as "carebear" games, you're implying that it's for little wimps who don't want to fight other players. I'll tell you what. Go play Martial Heroes (formally known as d.o. online) where their PvP is COMPLETELY open. Also let me tell you that you're open game at level 36, and that getting into a guild/clan can start at 36. What's the catch? Oh, you need 100 fame, which is gotten from PvP OR killing things higher than you, but it's VERY random. Also, even if you join the "Chaotic" side, you still get screwed, mainly because "chaotic" assassins use their hide skill and troll the areas around where you HAVE to go at level 36, and they're all at LEAST 48 or higher, and you have no chance.
NOW do you see why a lot of devs DON'T put open PvP in their games? It's because the simple fact that it adds at LEAST a year to the dev cycle (as they have to balance each class and or race to each other), and to top that off, it scares away new players. What's the point in playing a game if the areas you want to go level in are camped by higher level people with higher stats and better gear? You don't have a chance.
Now, for my obligatory "jab" at the "1337 |-|/XX04" community.
"OMG CAREBEARS ARE TEH SUCK. PVP ARE SO BETTER. LOL! PLZ MAKE MORE PVP GAMES SO I CAN PWN SOME NUBS!"
Just so you know, some of us are playing whatever MMO we're playing for the community...not for the gameplay alone. I myself loved Everquest because open PvP was restricted to certain servers, and I still believe to this day that the policy they had is the best.
This cracks me up. The mindset of someone who thinks:
"I am not a carebear. I am a tough guy because I PvP with my cartoon character in a video game."
Ha!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
hmmm'zorz. You are definitely full of innovative thoughts.. such as the term - carebear. never heard of that one.
I'm glad you decided to start this topic.
Do not shut the fuck up.
you definitely did not repeat an old topic that has been repeated atleast 25995478223.456 times before
----------
nogold.org....
I don't think PvP has any business in MMORPG's anymore. There are more PvP players out there than every MMORPG combined- they're called FPS gamers- and they're increasingly coming online and discovering the joys of small servers... but they'll tire of those soon.
Eventually they'll be turned on to the promiscuity of games like planetside- where you can get it on with a new partner every minute. Anyway the industry is full of stupid nerds and they haven't been turned onto to this. Eventually FPS is going to dwarf RPG- just like in real life. Everyone remembers those few odd nerds from highschool who brough in multi sided dice and pen and paper and made up stats and monsters and what not. You guys are nerds- you're the niche market- and you're gonna be shocked when the industry matures and MMORPG is left in the dust.
guns + explosions > swords + mythical creatures.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
I believe it does. While FPS is more along thinking of your toes. It does not exactly battle wits. You're trying to outsmart the other person, it's not about who gets the upper-advantage but of 'how' to get it.
I believe it does. While FPS is more along thinking of your toes. It does not exactly battle wits. You're trying to outsmart the other person, it's not about who gets the upper-advantage but of 'how' to get it.
The only true way to have "fair" PvP, would be to make everyone the same level, with access to equivalent gear and skills/spell. They're trying that experiment with RYL: Battle Lohan. Everyone's level 40 with the same grade gear. Other than that, there's always a bully or 20 who like to sit there mowing down lower level characters who don't have the stats, gear, or skills to fight back fairly.
I think hard core players are people with no lifes, sex lifes, or social lifes. I mean, if you are able to play 11-15 hours a day, well, I believe that speaks for itself.
RF Online|LostGrace-3x Cora Caster-Spirit Server-Active
Lineage 2|LostGrace-4x Elemental Summoner-Gustin Server-Deactivated, Kiltor-3x Elven Oracle-Gustin Server-Baned T_T
As you "hardcore" people say:
ROFLZ OMFGWTFPWNT!!11!1!1 d4t w45 t3h sh331t b33-y4+ch l0lz1!1!1!!!
I think i got that right.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
/AGREED
Realm vs Realm pvp turns me off completely. I hate being designated who I can or cannot fight.
MMO Fav List:
Lineage 2 | 5x Silver Ranger, 7x Shillien Elder <- Active
WoW | 6x Rogue, 1x Priest
Anarchy Online | 8x MetaPhysicist
Saga of Ryzom | Matis Light Armourer
Waiting for: Age of Conan, Lineage 3
Asheron's Call - Darktide.
Sever was open pvp from day 1 and is still going strong, although the game has dropped off considerably due to age.
Darktide was HARSH, to say the least, you would be fighting all the time, alot of the time you'd lose and you would be ganked often but you learned to live with it or you quit, period. That's the way the players who stuck to DT liked it and in fact for the first few years it was common practice to camp newb areas where players first came into the server to "initiate" them. This was your right of passage to remain on the server and most guilds wouldnt even recruit you if you didn't prove yourself by leveling to level 20 (or later on 50) on your own, proving your self-sustained and not a carebear beggar.
Also note, if you play an open pvp game and quit because you get ganked a few times than the game is better off with you gone. The reason why carebear games attract more people is because the mindless "casual" gamers hate the fact that they cant play for 20 mins a week and compete with the "hardcore" gamers. Of course, this is due largely to the fact that most of these people are lazy and refuse to grind in any game to get a decent character and as such whine until the Devs nerf the game to one of 2 extremeties:
1) They neuter pvp, taking away all the risk, reward and fun (they did this on AC with pklite)
2) They make leveling extremely easy so that "casual" players who dedicate 1/20th the amount of time to the game can have uber characters, thus nagating the time and effort real players put into their characters tenfold (they also did this on AC)
It's the whiny "pubbies" that ruin most pvp games, they don't join clans/allegiances/groups to fight back (this should be the first logical course of action, and yet, here we are), they don't think of finding somewhere else to hunt, they just run to the same spot where they just got ganked over and over and over like lemmings.
And when they die, they either spam with obscenities, whine/beg/plead or threaten to get the killers banned. .
.
Basically, you can't have a open pvp type game because most people can't handle that level of challenge and gameplay. Most people can't handle losing over and over and realizing that in these types of game you have to pay your dues before you can go around stomping on n00bs. Most people just plain suck at pvp in general
Hardcore PvP is pretty much dead in my mind, until a game comes along that actually does it properly again like pre-tram UO and AC.
Also, Blitzz, your assumption that anybody who's "hardcore" is automatically a kid is absurd and quite ignorant. Some people enjoy playing a game "casually" (aka. barely ever) while others actually like to achieve things in the game and have characters who are developed fully and experience the end-game. I'm definately one of those people and I fail to see the logic in playing an RPG where the game focuses entirely on levels and skills and numbers and then playing for 10 mins a day and wondering why your friends can go to all the cool new places in the game and you can't. The solution is quite simple, don't play MMOs or even RPGs for that matter if you cannot invest time in them, these aren't the type of games you can just pickup for 10 mins a week and stay competitive at (unless it's a hybrid like GuildWars). People need to accept this fact and learn that if you want a quick competition that you can pickup in 10 mins, they should stick to FPS games. Playing a MMO casually is a waste of time and money in my opinion becuase you're just robbing yourself of a ton of content that you PAY for.
Personally, I love pvp in games and sure I understand some people don't like it and don't want to be a part of it, but if you join a pvp game and then get pissed off because some random person in the game ganks you repeatedly, you really need to evaluate your choice of game. If you want an easy ride with great PvE content, play offline single player RPGs, they have boundless depth compared to most MMOs for a fraction of the cost. And please, PLEASE! stay off the !PK! servers unless you can handle losing, I know it's hard to wrap your head around the fact that you can't always win but this is a concept you need to get ahold of before you plod into the gameworld like a mindless drudge.
but when you're prepared to admit that you can't beat everyone all of the time, and you realize that losing isn't the end of the world, THEN buckle down, put your nose to the grindstone and kick some ***