"We are nearing the one year anniversary of World of Warcraft, a game that many of us spent at least a good month of that year playing. In any online game Player vs. Player is always an important part for people to test their skills against others, not just Artificial Intelligence. PvP as it has become known really incorporates a skill level that some players may never know. Ive seen friends type faster than a court reporter and spam spells or switch targets at lightening speed. Ive watched people throw the mouse at their computers, heard the curses over Team Speak or Ventrilo, and even seen people quit games over this wild competition that exists."
And you cant hang.... you will learn to live with it...
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Just dont get the whole... going online to battle computer monsters.... never have, never will...
UO Beta and 6 year Veterano and proud of it.
Played the first 2 years of UO on a 56k modem from Australia... got my ass kicked and PK'd over and over and over again. Loved every minute of it. Could have destroyed the computer several times over. Got so mad I went out walking many times so I didnt break something.
What I realise now is that it was the best gaming days of my life, the excitement, panic, fear and absolute emotional overload of open PvP is what makes a game great. I feel sorry for anyone who doesnt realise that or is too limp to try and get into it...
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Read the thread again Razor. No one is talking about eliminating PvP. We're discussing how to eliminate griefers. If you're really a PvP player this shouldn't bother you. Now if you're a griefer that preys on low lvl players with a lvl 1000+ character, I'd imagine you'd be pretty pissed off about this thread. But hey, I'm sure you just didn't take the time to READ this thread and totally misunderstood.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe Read the thread again Razor. No one is talking about eliminating PvP. We're discussing how to eliminate griefers. If you're really a PvP player this shouldn't bother you. Now if you're a griefer that preys on low lvl players with a lvl 1000+ character, I'd imagine you'd be pretty pissed off about this thread. But hey, I'm sure you just didn't take the time to READ this thread and totally misunderstood.
I understand perfecty and managed PvP is as bad and silly as no PvP at all... again I quote from the story on the front page.
Article by Garrett Fuller
"Many online players forged their opinion of PvP playing other games. In Ultima Online there were no rules. You left town, you were a target for Player Killers. The only warning you had was the name in red on the screen. It was truly a risky environment to play in and it was fun. Not only did you die, but you lost your gear and loot, could todays players handle such a loss? I seriously doubt it."
Its ok I understand not everyone can deal with freedom... dont beat yourself up...
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
What was I thinking?!! Of course a one sided ass kicking is just so much more fun than having people compete with the same advantages and disadvantages!! Damn, I was mislead into thinking that there was a good reason why boxing had weight divisions and Chess gave both players the same units in the same configuration at the start of the game. Silly me! My god, people that lose in a fight with both hands tied and blindfolded then whine about it are all just a bunch of pussies that should just get over it. It takes a real man to defeat a naked lvl 1 character with a 40 lvl paladin wielding a +20 mystic spork!! Thank you Razor. Thank you for opening my eyes. God bless you.
Disclaimer: The proceeding paragraph was sarcasm. the writer thereof takes no responsibilty for the reads misinterpretation of said paragraph. Thank you.
First off , I never even sugested eliminating PvP in any way ... I support PvP. It is very important part of any serious and good MMORPG.
Second I never seen this measure as getting rid of Gankers. No. They would still be there. Just now instead of pwn1ng n00b with 0% risk. They will pwn n00b and get involved in whole new kind of risk. Possibly (although i bare no love for the ganker) even enriching their game experience.
It is like keep both the wolf fed and the sheep alive....
PvP would just get much more interesting.
And if you wish you could go and Gank , but you would risk many NPC's chasing you eventually and being killed and looted.
If you like the risk , live by the risk ... If you like PvP with zero risk - than stay out of the kitchen Ganker !
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Why do these topics come up? Its always against the open pvp games that seem to be the most hated among some gamers. Maybe because almost everyone who have played open pvp games have felt the same way, they really hate it when nobody fight fairly. They really hate it when running out of town the next thing they know they are dead, or they go to a popular hunting ground and you're dead because someone is being protective of that spot. Maybe they really hate is when they themselves are hunting and the next they know their dead because of people want that spot too.
I think its time for mmorpg.com to do an editoral on how pvp games are doing compared to non pvp games.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
Originally posted by gattm99 Jd1689 said, "I think its time for mmorpg.com to do an editoral on how pvp games are doing compared to non pvp games." Why write an editorial when the players have done it themselves, EVE ONLINE, voted number one.
The vote is nothing. Try the number of people playing pure PvP and non-pure PvP or PvE games. Eve is a good game, but it doesnt have that many people playing it. Open PvP with permanent results (item loss, etc) will NEVER be very popular becuase of the griefers. It will not die, but it will never reach to the top. Look from the history, there were and still are several pure PvP MMOs, but they have only a handful of subscribers. That should speak for itself. People simply dont like unfairness. Its like watching a hockey game between Toronto Maple Leafs and some highschool team.
Originally posted by Rattrap PvP what a wonderfull concept ! Matching your skill against a living human mind in battle of wits and strenght ! How much better than battling mindles pieces of code... I bet we all agree on that. But then comes the Ganker ... grazes trough level 2 population with his lvel 40 character. Unfair ? Same level is fair ... So lets try again. Then comes the Ganker and slays lev 40 crafter with his lev 40 uber fighting behemoth. You say its fair. You say thats life. The problem is , its not.... In life there were always bullies who can crush another in instant , and always they were willing to do so. That is why dating millions of years in past humans invented law. So the uber bully can not just go beating everyone up as he wishes...or he will be beaten soon by even bigger bully , or imprisoned...or worse. Simple formula.... But Where is it in MMORPG's? Why are mmorpgs in state of constant ANARCHY ? My guess is because the developers are to lazy to develop any law system in the games...what is your guess ?
If you are playing in a game and the map your in has open pvp and you get killed its no ones fault but your own for being there.
I do think its unfair when a lvl 40 beats on a lvl 20 say. Maybe some games if not already should implement some bad karma system where you get punished for killing the weak and if you continue to do so then you become wanted and a reward is placed on your head etc (I think D & L might be like this but not sure).
Surely the game you was playing has areas that are non pvp so why not lvl there? Does the guy who attack you get any kind of reward?
When i played WoW and they brought in PvP it did at that element of risk to the game where you never knew if mid pull you was going to get ganked but that was kinda exciting and kept you on your toes. If I was ganked I would hit sprint key and hope the guy attacking could see through my stealth once I was out of sight.
I vote for Anarchy. Law are for IRL, Anarchy is for fun, and MMO are for fun. It's to the dev to find a way that PvP is fun everywhere, everytime. Law against players will kill fun for them. With a clever method, like n00b zones and battlefield, the devs lead PvPers to play with fun without restrictions and let the newbies play as they want.
The only problem is MMO doesn't give the fear of death, but give lot's of power to high lvl players. That's why PKers exists. And that's why systems like perma-death exists, and it's cool IMO, because a pker doesn't want to see a bounty on his head because he killed a noob in a "noob zone". But I wait the day when there will be a very small difference of power between a noob and a hardcore gamer. When the time of play will result in popularity, politic power, money and knowledge of the world, but not in fight power.
Originally posted by Reeloyd I vote for Anarchy. Law are for IRL, Anarchy is for fun, and MMO are for fun. It's to the dev to find a way that PvP is fun everywhere, everytime. Law against players will kill fun for them. With a clever method, like n00b zones and battlefield, the devs lead PvPers to play with fun without restrictions and let the newbies play as they want.The only problem is MMO doesn't give the fear of death, but give lot's of power to high lvl players. That's why PKers exists. And that's why systems like perma-death exists, and it's cool IMO, because a pker doesn't want to see a bounty on his head because he killed a noob in a "noob zone". But I wait the day when there will be a very small difference of power between a noob and a hardcore gamer. When the time of play will result in popularity, politic power, money and knowledge of the world, but not in fight power.
Yes, I think thats what everyone is talking about. Anarchy is good but ONLY if there is SOME kind of restriction on the ganking. Nobody likes unfair combat where you have no chance in hell to defend against a realy high level player. I think the best system uptoday is in Planetside, a level 1 player has a very good chance to win a fight vs high level (level 25). Level 25 simply has more options to chose from (more weapon selections, slightly better armor, etc). Not sure if this, however, can be implemented in a MMORPG, since most, if not all of them rely on player levels.
Comments
pffft....
"We are nearing the one year anniversary of World of Warcraft, a game that many of us spent at least a good month of that year playing. In any online game Player vs. Player is always an important part for people to test their skills against others, not just Artificial Intelligence. PvP as it has become known really incorporates a skill level that some players may never know. Ive seen friends type faster than a court reporter and spam spells or switch targets at lightening speed. Ive watched people throw the mouse at their computers, heard the curses over Team Speak or Ventrilo, and even seen people quit games over this wild competition that exists."
And you cant hang.... you will learn to live with it...
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Wow Razorback, You're not compensating for anything. Are you?
Just dont get the whole... going online to battle computer monsters.... never have, never will...
UO Beta and 6 year Veterano and proud of it.
Played the first 2 years of UO on a 56k modem from Australia... got my ass kicked and PK'd over and over and over again. Loved every minute of it. Could have destroyed the computer several times over. Got so mad I went out walking many times so I didnt break something.
What I realise now is that it was the best gaming days of my life, the excitement, panic, fear and absolute emotional overload of open PvP is what makes a game great. I feel sorry for anyone who doesnt realise that or is too limp to try and get into it...
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Read the thread again Razor. No one is talking about eliminating PvP. We're discussing how to eliminate griefers. If you're really a PvP player this shouldn't bother you. Now if you're a griefer that preys on low lvl players with a lvl 1000+ character, I'd imagine you'd be pretty pissed off about this thread. But hey, I'm sure you just didn't take the time to READ this thread and totally misunderstood.
I understand perfecty and managed PvP is as bad and silly as no PvP at all... again I quote from the story on the front page.
"Many online players forged their opinion of PvP playing other games. In Ultima Online there were no rules. You left town, you were a target for Player Killers. The only warning you had was the name in red on the screen. It was truly a risky environment to play in and it was fun. Not only did you die, but you lost your gear and loot, could todays players handle such a loss? I seriously doubt it."
Its ok I understand not everyone can deal with freedom... dont beat yourself up...
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
What was I thinking?!! Of course a one sided ass kicking is just so much more fun than having people compete with the same advantages and disadvantages!! Damn, I was mislead into thinking that there was a good reason why boxing had weight divisions and Chess gave both players the same units in the same configuration at the start of the game. Silly me! My god, people that lose in a fight with both hands tied and blindfolded then whine about it are all just a bunch of pussies that should just get over it. It takes a real man to defeat a naked lvl 1 character with a 40 lvl paladin wielding a +20 mystic spork!! Thank you Razor. Thank you for opening my eyes. God bless you.
Disclaimer: The proceeding paragraph was sarcasm. the writer thereof takes no responsibilty for the reads misinterpretation of said paragraph. Thank you.
First off , I never even sugested eliminating PvP in any way ... I support PvP.
It is very important part of any serious and good MMORPG.
Second I never seen this measure as getting rid of Gankers. No. They would still be there.
Just now instead of pwn1ng n00b with 0% risk. They will pwn n00b and get involved in whole new
kind of risk. Possibly (although i bare no love for the ganker) even enriching their game experience.
It is like keep both the wolf fed and the sheep alive....
PvP would just get much more interesting.
And if you wish you could go and Gank , but you would risk many NPC's chasing you eventually and being killed and looted.
If you like the risk , live by the risk ... If you like PvP with zero risk - than stay out of the kitchen Ganker !
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Why do these topics come up? Its always against the open pvp games that seem to be the most hated among some gamers. Maybe because almost everyone who have played open pvp games have felt the same way, they really hate it when nobody fight fairly. They really hate it when running out of town the next thing they know they are dead, or they go to a popular hunting ground and you're dead because someone is being protective of that spot. Maybe they really hate is when they themselves are hunting and the next they know their dead because of people want that spot too.
I think its time for mmorpg.com to do an editoral on how pvp games are doing compared to non pvp games.
Have played: CoH, DDO EQ2, FFXI, L2, HZ, SoR, and WW2 online
Jd1689 said, "I think its time for mmorpg.com to do an editoral on how pvp games are doing compared to non pvp games."
Why write an editorial when the players have done it themselves, EVE ONLINE, voted number one.
The vote is nothing. Try the number of people playing pure PvP and non-pure PvP or PvE games. Eve is a good game, but it doesnt have that many people playing it. Open PvP with permanent results (item loss, etc) will NEVER be very popular becuase of the griefers. It will not die, but it will never reach to the top. Look from the history, there were and still are several pure PvP MMOs, but they have only a handful of subscribers. That should speak for itself. People simply dont like unfairness. Its like watching a hockey game between Toronto Maple Leafs and some highschool team.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
If you are playing in a game and the map your in has open pvp and you get killed its no ones fault but your own for being there.
I do think its unfair when a lvl 40 beats on a lvl 20 say. Maybe some games if not already should implement some bad karma system where you get punished for killing the weak and if you continue to do so then you become wanted and a reward is placed on your head etc (I think D & L might be like this but not sure).
Surely the game you was playing has areas that are non pvp so why not lvl there? Does the guy who attack you get any kind of reward?
When i played WoW and they brought in PvP it did at that element of risk to the game where you never knew if mid pull you was going to get ganked but that was kinda exciting and kept you on your toes. If I was ganked I would hit sprint key and hope the guy attacking could see through my stealth once I was out of sight.
I vote for Anarchy. Law are for IRL, Anarchy is for fun, and MMO are for fun. It's to the dev to find a way that PvP is fun everywhere, everytime. Law against players will kill fun for them. With a clever method, like n00b zones and battlefield, the devs lead PvPers to play with fun without restrictions and let the newbies play as they want.
The only problem is MMO doesn't give the fear of death, but give lot's of power to high lvl players. That's why PKers exists. And that's why systems like perma-death exists, and it's cool IMO, because a pker doesn't want to see a bounty on his head because he killed a noob in a "noob zone".
But I wait the day when there will be a very small difference of power between a noob and a hardcore gamer. When the time of play will result in popularity, politic power, money and knowledge of the world, but not in fight power.
Yes, I think thats what everyone is talking about. Anarchy is good but ONLY if there is SOME kind of restriction on the ganking. Nobody likes unfair combat where you have no chance in hell to defend against a realy high level player. I think the best system uptoday is in Planetside, a level 1 player has a very good chance to win a fight vs high level (level 25). Level 25 simply has more options to chose from (more weapon selections, slightly better armor, etc). Not sure if this, however, can be implemented in a MMORPG, since most, if not all of them rely on player levels.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.