My first posts wasn't that constructive. So here is a better one. Since Blizzard first announced World of Warcraft, they have said that the game will follow the normal mmo pricing model. Wich means. 1. You pay monthly to recieve: Servers, support and patches(With or without content) . For 15$ you pay to Blizzard each month recieve all these thing, including content in the patches. 2. You pay for big extensions to the game. Blizzard has yet to announce expansion pricing, but I think it will follow in the lines of: Daoc, EQ, EQ2, SWG, + insert most western mmo's here. This is normal, the whole gaming industry is like this. You pay for expansion packs. Blizzard has always and always will follow the lines of the industry. They have found out that polishing is what they do best, and they won't change it. So expecting Blizzard to do this is wrong.
Regarding games that do this different. Eve is always used as an example. 1. you pay more monthly. 2. It's space, requires about 90% less time to make the enviroments. 3. A Eve "expansion" doesn't offer as much as a EQ2, Daoc or Wow expansion. Eve expansions are what you get in 2-3 content patches in Wow. It's quite similar for Lineage II.
Originally posted by Anofalye The best proof that Blizzard is money hungry, they keep changing staff.
A company that care for it customers would keep the same staff, especially when they are successful. Changing staff is not done for gameplay reasons in the case of Blizzard, it is done for economic reasons (when the dev team who already cost 15% to much insist on some features, Blizzard fire them, rather than argue or consider why the staff think a feature or two is critical for the gameplay).
You are totally wrong about this. Blizzard is probably one of the big game companies that fires the smallest amount of people. The core development staff of Blizzard has been the same people basicly since the company started. Those who left, left a couple of years ago because they wanted something new. Gw people and Flagship Studios. They left, not fired. These are some of the most talented people in the world, noone will fire them.
Seriously if you logged in or even saw how many servers they have to run.....you would believe. Not to mention , that many servers and people are still complaining about having problems logging in cause of server load. YOur littel interent cafe story was hilarious also......that statement would mean Lineage 2 probably has only 20 active subscribers as opposed to 2 million.
Also on SOE adding content to SWG.....then calling it an expansion. They added SPACE , they also added new planets in rage of the wookies. These arent patches guys and expect to pay for them. It cost them time and money to develop these expanions. And if you werent paying for it...you would get patches any monkey could come up with.
Firstly I play in Europe, but I am well aware how many servers they have in the US and the EU. But I NEVER disputed those numbers, EVER.
Secondly; Little internet story? What I spoke about is clearly fact. I did NOT say HOW many subs WoW has in China, nor how many Lineage has in Korea. I stated how subs work out there and that you cannot PROVE how many they have.
Lineage: The Blood Pledge has been a gaming phenomenon in South Korea for years, and has since been exported, with somewhat lesser success, to China, Japan, Taiwan, and the United States. Some press reports will say Lineage has over 4 million subscribers. Lineage actually has a variety of different pricing schemes, and many players access the game via Internet cybercafes rather than a more traditional monthly subscription. The numbers I have chosen to use are the monthly access numbers, which I feel are the most directly comparable to other monthly subscription MMOGs. As of March 2005, Lineage has just under 2 million such users worldwide, but only 7,623 subscribers in the United States.
An active sub as you understand it, and someone that logs to play with a game card, maybe a few times a week, or NOT the same thing. Can YOU verify those access numbers? I sure can't. I take such info, and ALL press releases with a pinch of salt.
Seriously if you logged in or even saw how many servers they have to run.....you would believe. Not to mention , that many servers and people are still complaining about having problems logging in cause of server load. YOur littel interent cafe story was hilarious also......that statement would mean Lineage 2 probably has only 20 active subscribers as opposed to 2 million.
Also on SOE adding content to SWG.....then calling it an expansion. They added SPACE , they also added new planets in rage of the wookies. These arent patches guys and expect to pay for them. It cost them time and money to develop these expanions. And if you werent paying for it...you would get patches any monkey could come up with.
Firstly I play in Europe, but I am well aware how many servers they have in the US and the EU. But I NEVER disputed those numbers, EVER.
Secondly; Little internet story? What I spoke about is clearly fact. I did NOT say HOW many subs WoW has in China, nor how many Lineage has in Korea. I stated how subs work out there and that you cannot PROVE how many they have.
Lineage: The Blood Pledge has been a gaming phenomenon in South Korea for years, and has since been exported, with somewhat lesser success, to China, Japan, Taiwan, and the United States. Some press reports will say Lineage has over 4 million subscribers. Lineage actually has a variety of different pricing schemes, and many players access the game via Internet cybercafes rather than a more traditional monthly subscription. The numbers I have chosen to use are the monthly access numbers, which I feel are the most directly comparable to other monthly subscription MMOGs. As of March 2005, Lineage has just under 2 million such users worldwide, but only 7,623 subscribers in the United States.
An active sub as you understand it, and someone that logs to play with a game card, maybe a few times a week, or NOT the same thing. Can YOU verify those access numbers? I sure can't. I take such info, and ALL press releases with a pinch of salt.
You disputed the 4 million totall and thats what im getting at. Also the chart that im well aware of is from July after they hit 2 mill. It has not been updated, though he said he would be working on it asap.
WORLD OF WARCRAFT
Launched in November 2004, this is Blizzards much-anticipated entry into the MMOG market. The early data points on the chart represent reasonable estimates of worldwide subscriptions based upon the limited data Blizzard provided regarding North America accounts (750,000) and boxes sold. In February 2005 I estimated WoW had some 1.25 million subscribers worldwide; in March 2005, Blizzard announced WoW had 1.5 million subscribers worldwide. In June 2005, anonymous sources indicate WoW has reached the 2 million subscriber mark, and that number is expected to increase with the recent launch of WoW in China.
.....old numbers. Which mean they want way up with release in China and elsewhere.
Also Lineage and Lineage 2 are 2 different games made by the same company. Of course im sure your well aware of that. And Im well aware of what an active sub is and what isnt.
Only point im making here is they have 4 million which you dispute.....Blizzard isnt making this stuff up as they go along. You can reference your chart to reassure you when he puts up his new findings which so far have been right along with what BLizzard reports.
Originally posted by checkthis500 Originally posted by tu_uilwen dude, your an idiot. everygame with an expansion is bought not dled for free...........they need money for the peopel running and fixing the game, people for patching and services, they need money to run the buildings to operate the game, and money to run the servers. jsut becasue they have money doesn't mean they couldn't use alittle more.....like any of us...... Umm I have an expansion and a content expansions that I didn't pay for. It's called Devs that worry more about the players than money. Its called CCP. Yes a full expansion and a content expansion. dled for free. As will be the next content expansion, and probably the next full expansion. And seeing how they only have 70k subscribers, I think Blizzard has plenty of money to make expansions and let them be dled for free. They just choose not to as you said, because they could always use a little more. There's no way a free expansion would hurt them in the slightest.
I'm really starting to get sick of these Eve-Online players at this point. Everytime someone makes a thread. We get at least 1 person. That just has to bring up Eve-Online. That one thread the guy made joking about it was funny. Now though I'm starting to see what he meant. Come on guys give it a rest. If people want to find out about Eve-Online. They will, they don't need you jumping in every thread created going "eve this" or "eve that".
PS: Dear OP, please never start another thread again. At least until you have something logical to say. Your post is pure rubbish, and when you get called on it. You start insulting people by calling them "kids" and "noobs"? Yeah, real mature there.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Sorry if I ever brought up EvE online and it hurt your feelings. I only do it if it's relevant, if it happened that DAoC did something that someone said didn't exist I would've posted that, its kind of just coincidence. Because I love all games, but if a certain game does something like not make me pay for an expansion, and someone says "every game makes you pay for an expansion" I can correct them by pointing out one that doesnt, and add in my experience as proof. I'm not a fanboi, I just like people to know what else is out there, and if they say something that is statistically wrong, I'm going to point it out due to the fact that lots of people read this forum. And I rant, so its hard for me to make one sentenced responses.
(Didn't mean to offend by bringing the game up, it just always happens that someone brings up something that I've seen them do, and says it hasn't been done.)
*This is by Volkmar* You should jump on him too
To date, EVE is the only game that had a free expansion (i do not count the DAoC PvP revamp as an expansion but as an update), but that's because of their unique business model. They do not need 100000s of players to survive, their own base is enough to cover their expenses, fund some development and pay for their monthly pay. CCP is a quite small company and they do not need shelf space either as EVE is distributed by internet and has on internet their best source of advertisement (just look up and chances are you see a EVE banner).
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Originally posted by checkthis500 Sorry if I ever brought up EvE online and it hurt your feelings. I only do it if it's relevant, if it happened that DAoC did something that someone said didn't exist I would've posted that, its kind of just coincidence. Because I love all games, but if a certain game does something like not make me pay for an expansion, and someone says "every game makes you pay for an expansion" I can correct them by pointing out one that doesnt, and add in my experience as proof. I'm not a fanboi, I just like people to know what else is out there, and if they say something that is statistically wrong, I'm going to point it out due to the fact that lots of people read this forum. And I rant, so its hard for me to make one sentenced responses. (Didn't mean to offend by bringing the game up, it just always happens that someone brings up something that I've seen them do, and says it hasn't been done.)
I said that all games make you pay for expansions. Because frankly that is true. 90% of western mmo's make you pay for expansions. I also explained why Eve makes it free. 1. You pay more in the month. 2. You got about 70% less content in a Eve expansion than in a expansion for EQ2, Wow and so on. 3. Eve expansions are only new skills, items, tech levelsm, gameplay functions, wallpapers with planets and some new ships. Making them takes about 90% less time than making it for Wow etc. You get what you pay for.
Originally posted by tu_uilwen dude, your an idiot. everygame with an expansion is bought not dled for free...........they need money for the peopel running and fixing the game, people for patching and services, they need money to run the buildings to operate the game, and money to run the servers. jsut becasue they have money doesn't mean they couldn't use alittle more.....like any of us......
Umm I have an expansion and a content expansions that I didn't pay for. It's called Devs that worry more about the players than money. Its called CCP. Yes a full expansion and a content expansion. dled for free. As will be the next content expansion, and probably the next full expansion. And seeing how they only have 70k subscribers, I think Blizzard has plenty of money to make expansions and let them be dled for free. They just choose not to as you said, because they could always use a little more. There's no way a free expansion would hurt them in the slightest.
I'm really starting to get sick of these Eve-Online players at this point. Everytime someone makes a thread. We get at least 1 person. That just has to bring up Eve-Online. That one thread the guy made joking about it was funny. Now though I'm starting to see what he meant. Come on guys give it a rest. If people want to find out about Eve-Online. They will, they don't need you jumping in every thread created going "eve this" or "eve that".
PS: Dear OP, please never start another thread again. At least until you have something logical to say. Your post is pure rubbish, and when you get called on it. You start insulting people by calling them "kids" and "noobs"? Yeah, real mature there.
ROFL, yeah I thought that post about EVE was right on and truely funny. Everytime......someone hypes EVE. IT doesnt bother me.....but is starting to get annoying. Im pretty sure EVE players would get tired of reading posts about, hey TRY WOW! in theyre EVE forums.
Originally posted by Aseenus For those of you out there who dont know how game company's work every other game Blizzard has made in the past has been to save money so they can create WoW. Once they make a MMORPG such as WoW there not only getting paid for the purchace of the game but getting paid monthly so people like us can play it. My point being is that all my time of playing WoW iv thought that the expantion would be free, as in when u log on it will just update itself but now i hear that the Blizzard entertainment industry is going to make the expantion bought as well? isnt this abit much? - were paying to by the game - were paying to play monthly - were paying for updates as well? this is abit much in my book.. I honestly feel that Blizzard entertainment is becoming very greedy! now im thinking of if i should keep playing and paying money hungry guys like this for a game or if i should quit..
What mmorpg have you played that had an exspansion this big for free?
Originally posted by tu_uilwen dude, your an idiot. everygame with an expansion is bought not dled for free...........they need money for the peopel running and fixing the game, people for patching and services, they need money to run the buildings to operate the game, and money to run the servers. jsut becasue they have money doesn't mean they couldn't use alittle more.....like any of us......
Umm I have an expansion and a content expansions that I didn't pay for. It's called Devs that worry more about the players than money. Its called CCP. Yes a full expansion and a content expansion. dled for free. As will be the next content expansion, and probably the next full expansion. And seeing how they only have 70k subscribers, I think Blizzard has plenty of money to make expansions and let them be dled for free. They just choose not to as you said, because they could always use a little more. There's no way a free expansion would hurt them in the slightest.
I'm really starting to get sick of these Eve-Online players at this point. Everytime someone makes a thread. We get at least 1 person. That just has to bring up Eve-Online. That one thread the guy made joking about it was funny. Now though I'm starting to see what he meant. Come on guys give it a rest. If people want to find out about Eve-Online. They will, they don't need you jumping in every thread created going "eve this" or "eve that".
PS: Dear OP, please never start another thread again. At least until you have something logical to say. Your post is pure rubbish, and when you get called on it. You start insulting people by calling them "kids" and "noobs"? Yeah, real mature there.
ROFL, yeah I thought that post about EVE was right on and truely funny. Everytime......someone hypes EVE. IT doesnt bother me.....but is starting to get annoying. Im pretty sure EVE players would get tired of reading posts about, hey TRY WOW! in theyre EVE forums.
LOL , no sooner had i posted my above post and someone had allready posted about eve in another wow thread. Highly annoying!
Originally posted by Kiamde Your grammer is horrid.
WAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So is your speling.
Back to the thread, Blizzard isn't money hungry, you think this expansion was just done by their existing devs in their spare time? No. It takes a new team of devs, meetings, consultations, artwork and concepts from inside and outside artists and programmers. Proabably tens of thousands of hours from the president of the company down to the lowliest paid testers.
If they didn't charge for the expansion they would probably go bankrupt. Expansions cost big bucks, and people might hate it, you just never know and they can lose money even with charging for it.
If you look at the scope of the expansion, you will be happy to pay for it: it's gonna be a whopper!
Originally posted by tu_uilwen dude, your an idiot. everygame with an expansion is bought not dled for free...........they need money for the peopel running and fixing the game, people for patching and services, they need money to run the buildings to operate the game, and money to run the servers. jsut becasue they have money doesn't mean they couldn't use alittle more.....like any of us......
Umm I have an expansion and a content expansions that I didn't pay for. It's called Devs that worry more about the players than money. Its called CCP. Yes a full expansion and a content expansion. dled for free. As will be the next content expansion, and probably the next full expansion. And seeing how they only have 70k subscribers, I think Blizzard has plenty of money to make expansions and let them be dled for free. They just choose not to as you said, because they could always use a little more. There's no way a free expansion would hurt them in the slightest.
I would wonder if maybe the guys at CCP did a little market research and found that their players wouldn't pay for an expansion. And to keep the game going their decision was to release the stuff for free and tell you they love you. Isn't love beautiful? Especially when businesses give you stuff for "free".
Do you think that making an expansion for EVE costs as much as for WoW? I like the game but it's just some ships, some rocks, and some big balls floating in space. It's really just battle of the spreadsheets with some floating balls. (Oh and a really cool soundtrack)
Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, or hype anything. If I was hyping anyone it was the devs at CCP. And I'm not on WoW's site forums, so I didn't see the problem of mentioning another game that does what WoW doesn't.
And no I don't know all the marketing facts that go into why expansions are free or not. I was just pointing out that I didn't pay for the one I got with Eve. If you look in an earlier post I said that I didn't mind paying for an expansion, and I have in the past. I simply pointed out that not "every" game has expansions that you have to pay for.
Again the expansion in WoW of course isn't necessary and it's meant for the highest of level players, but I think it would simply be a nice gesture on Blizzard's part to put out an expansion that didn't cost their players a thing. And yes it probably costs quite a bit, but I hardly think it would cost enough to hurt them at all.
Anyway off the topic of Eve. Since it hurts peoples eyes to read the name, I rephrase my comment with "Yes I have heard of a game that had an expansion that the players didn't pay for and I thought it was pretty cool of the devs to do that."
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
I am playin since the "ZX Spectrum era" and trust me, i know what i'm talking about.
How many of you played Warcraft I ? It was a fantastic game for its time. Bought mine which was on 4 or 6 1.44MB diskettes. It was absolutly addictive. I've played with my friends in multiplayer using a Serial Cable. A orc's Demon hitting a human church was something that i will never forget.
Then there was Diablo I, Starcraft, Diablo II, Warcraft II, and then Warcraft III. All absolutly superb games. After Warcraft III, The Frozen Throne expansion, Blizzard was my religion. All their games were perfect.
Making such beatifull games helped Blizzard earn money. And it was NOT from a monthly fee. Yet services such as Battle.net: Diablo II, Starcraft, Warcraft III still exists and they existed way before WoW (so dont try to argue that WoW's fees are keeping Diablo II Battle Net servers running).
A beautifull Non MMO game can be profitable and can keep online servers up. It is true that content isnt added at the same rate as for a MMO, but thats where montly fee makes the difference.
To continue my story, Blizzard, after the release of Warcraft III (+ expansion) was the most respected and known game company in the world. It was Vivendi's (blizzard's "boss") only profitable department.
No wonder World Of Warcraft was one of the most anticipated game in the world and history. I was one of the millions that checked the WoW's site daily thirsty for some new info about the game. You CANNOT imagine my disappointment when finally WoW was out . It is a cheap DAOC clone with crap game mechanics. The only thing that made me play it for a few days was the familiar Warcraft universe that was so close to my heart from playing WC3. After few day, i couldnt take it anymore so i left and returned to the one and only: Warcraft III.
I think WoW's HUGE subscription database exists because of the PREVIOUS games that were pure gems. Diablo fans, starcraft fans, warcraft fans, all bought WoW and start playing. It was a new game from their loved company. Some played cuz they've already paid for it, some played cuz it was something new and they hadnt consider any alternative and some even like it, imagine that.
WoW's succes is based on the fame Blizzard had due to their other games, games created by ppl that left the company and that is showing up. Blizzard is not what it was before and i cannot expect any future games from them to be at least good. WoW is a bad clone (i'm referring to the game mechanics) who has a good part that doesnt make it a complete failure: a beautifull universe with an imersive history.
If you say an expansion of a MMO (subscription based) game cannot be free due to company bills, etc., you are completly wrong. The only reason an expansion costs money is for pure profit (why not make 10 million if we can). It is a good thing in a free market (the desire to make profit), however you miss a point. What if the expansion makes ppl leave just because the expansion has a price ? What if the curent playerbase is reduced from 4 million to 3 million ? And what if a free expansion would attract more players ? What if a free expansion would make the subscription number reach 5 million ? Wouldnt be more profitable to have a free expansion with 5 million subscribers then with a 30$ expansion with a 3 million subscribers ?? I think Blizzard's marketing department "is fading away too" !
PS: Indeed, CCP releases free expansions for their Eve Online with the result of a constant growth in the subscription database. And rest assured Eve Online and CCP will still be on the market when WoW would be laying underground right next to Asheron's Call !
PS2: Please forgive my grammar and spelling mistake. I am not an english native.
Originally posted by omunegru Let me tell the Blizzard fanboys a little story. I am playin since the "ZX Spectrum era" and trust me, i know what i'm talking about.
How many of you played Warcraft I ? It was a fantastic game for its time. Bought mine which was on 4 or 6 1.44MB diskettes. It was absolutly addictive. I've played with my friends in multiplayer using a Serial Cable. A orc's Demon hitting a human church was something that i will never forget. Then there was Diablo I, Starcraft, Diablo II, Warcraft II, and then Warcraft III. All absolutly superb games. After Warcraft III, The Frozen Throne expansion, Blizzard was my religion. All their games were perfect. Making such beatifull games helped Blizzard earn money. And it was NOT from a monthly fee. Yet services such as Battle.net: Diablo II, Starcraft, Warcraft III still exists and they existed way before WoW (so dont try to argue that WoW's fees are keeping Diablo II Battle Net servers running). A beautifull Non MMO game can be profitable and can keep online servers up. It is true that content isnt added at the same rate as for a MMO, but thats where montly fee makes the difference. To continue my story, Blizzard, after the release of Warcraft III (+ expansion) was the most respected and known game company in the world. It was Vivendi's (blizzard's "boss") only profitable department. No wonder World Of Warcraft was one of the most anticipated game in the world and history. I was one of the millions that checked the WoW's site daily thirsty for some new info about the game. You CANNOT imagine my disappointment when finally WoW was out . It is a cheap DAOC clone with crap game mechanics. The only thing that made me play it for a few days was the familiar Warcraft universe that was so close to my heart from playing WC3. After few day, i couldnt take it anymore so i left and returned to the one and only: Warcraft III. I think WoW's HUGE subscription database exists because of the PREVIOUS games that were pure gems. Diablo fans, starcraft fans, warcraft fans, all bought WoW and start playing. It was a new game from their loved company. Some played cuz they've already paid for it, some played cuz it was something new and they hadnt consider any alternative and some even like it, imagine that. WoW's succes is based on the fame Blizzard had due to their other games, games created by ppl that left the company and that is showing up. Blizzard is not what it was before and i cannot expect any future games from them to be at least good. WoW is a bad clone (i'm referring to the game mechanics) who has a good part that doesnt make it a complete failure: a beautifull universe with an imersive history. If you say an expansion of a MMO (subscription based) game cannot be free due to company bills, etc., you are completly wrong. The only reason an expansion costs money is for pure profit (why not make 10 million if we can). It is a good thing in a free market (the desire to make profit), however you miss a point. What if the expansion makes ppl leave just because the expansion has a price ? What if the curent playerbase is reduced from 4 million to 3 million ? And what if a free expansion would attract more players ? What if a free expansion would make the subscription number reach 5 million ? Wouldnt be more profitable to have a free expansion with 5 million subscribers then with a 30$ expansion with a 3 million subscribers ?? I think Blizzard's marketing department "is fading away too" ! PS: Indeed, CCP releases free expansions for their Eve Online with the result of a constant growth in the subscription database. And rest assured Eve Online and CCP will still be on the market when WoW would be laying underground right next to Asheron's Call ! PS2: Please forgive my grammar and spelling mistake. I am not an english native. Thank you.
You had a point some where in that garbage? For every 1 person like you, there are 10 or even more people that will say the game rocks.
....so yeah I fail to see a point to this post! And dead next to AC.....thats a real laugher.
Disclaimer:
WOW isnt the greatest game on earth but it isnt trash like the above poster would lead you to believe.
They'll take anyones money ,dont care how long you stay, no CS , shallow , and in the end unsatisfying . Oh and you'll probably feel guilty that you played it at one time.
It can only last so long anyway. ALl those 12 year olds should grow up eventually.. and if theyre not 12 then the ones who act 12 SHOULD grow up.
OK WoW haters, we know you don't like the game. A week can't go by with one of you starting a new topic just to start the same discussion over and over agian.
You either like the game or not but please don't come to the WORLD OF WARCRAFT BOARDS just to complain about a game that you don't like.
Go play a game you do like instead of talking about one you don't.
I know the original poster didn't mean to start a anti-WoW topic but it has rapidly turned into one.
Originally posted by nothing2gein OK WoW haters, we know you don't like the game. A week can't go by with one of you starting a new topic just to start the same discussion over and over agian. You either like the game or not but please don't come to the WORLD OF WARCRAFT BOARDS just to complain about a game that you don't like. Go play a game you do like instead of talking about one you don't.I know the original poster didn't mean to start a anti-WoW topic but it has rapidly turned into one.
read my sig properly and you will see that im not a wow hater but a player!
Originally posted by Aseenus Originally posted by nothing2gein OK WoW haters, we know you don't like the game. A week can't go by with one of you starting a new topic just to start the same discussion over and over agian. You either like the game or not but please don't come to the WORLD OF WARCRAFT BOARDS just to complain about a game that you don't like. Go play a game you do like instead of talking about one you don't.I know the original poster didn't mean to start a anti-WoW topic but it has rapidly turned into one.
read my sig properly and you will see that im not a wow hater but a player!
If you read my post carefully, I said I know you didn't mean for it to turn into a anti-WoW post but it eventually became one. No offense to you.
Just other people try to take a discussion about Blizzard's motives and turn into a fanboy fight (Like some one said earlier, the Eve Online players really need to lay off. If Eve is so great go play it and stop wasting your time on talking about a, in your words, crappy game.
I'm just an ex Blizzard fan dissapointed by the way WoW is. That is all. I still fermly belive that warcraft III is one of the best games ever. That game makes me play in my spare time for more then few years now.
Eve is different and for different ppl. I dont need to flame at WoW just to make Eve looks better because they compete on different targets.
I hope the ex-employes that made new companies will teach Blizzard's current leadership a lesson.
I cant wait to see how Hellgate: London will be like. Even if its not a MMO, it seems promising.
This thread is pointless. They have already given much more than most MMOs through updates (battlegrounds, instances, etc.) and they will keep doing so. The expansion isnt free because it adds 2 races, a class, many instances, and entire new island. I mean come on think of all the models, sounds, etc. Most people cant even download all that. Someone has to be paid for this work they are doing and personally I think Blizzard is fair.
They provide a solid content filled game and ur whining about another 30 bucks or so. Pay it if you want the extremly huge expansion or dont if u wanna stick with playing the old game.
You're an idiot. Blizzard has offered more free content in their patches than any MMO I have ever seen. I don't even play WoW anymore, I found it got boring and pointless, but you should still be able to see the value in spending $50 on an expansion. Name 1 game that has offered more free content thant WoW, and in addition free expansion packs containing months of work by employees. Be embarassed.
EDIT: Reading through this whole topic I'd like to add how funny I think it iis that Aseenus is still trying to defend himself after getting dominated countless times. Go away, dont complain about MMORPG's in MMORPG forums if you don't understand the concepts of how the games make money. If I wasn't lazy I'd give you a link to a shitty free MMORPG and tell you that's where you belong.
Comments
My first posts wasn't that constructive. So here is a better one.
Since Blizzard first announced World of Warcraft, they have said that the game will follow the normal mmo pricing model. Wich means. 1. You pay monthly to recieve: Servers, support and patches(With or without content) . For 15$ you pay to Blizzard each month recieve all these thing, including content in the patches. 2. You pay for big extensions to the game. Blizzard has yet to announce expansion pricing, but I think it will follow in the lines of: Daoc, EQ, EQ2, SWG, + insert most western mmo's here. This is normal, the whole gaming industry is like this. You pay for expansion packs. Blizzard has always and always will follow the lines of the industry. They have found out that polishing is what they do best, and they won't change it. So expecting Blizzard to do this is wrong.
Regarding games that do this different. Eve is always used as an example. 1. you pay more monthly. 2. It's space, requires about 90% less time to make the enviroments. 3. A Eve "expansion" doesn't offer as much as a EQ2, Daoc or Wow expansion. Eve expansions are what you get in 2-3 content patches in Wow. It's quite similar for Lineage II.
You are totally wrong about this. Blizzard is probably one of the big game companies that fires the smallest amount of people. The core development staff of Blizzard has been the same people basicly since the company started. Those who left, left a couple of years ago because they wanted something new. Gw people and Flagship Studios. They left, not fired. These are some of the most talented people in the world, noone will fire them.
Seriously if you logged in or even saw how many servers they have to run.....you would believe. Not to mention , that many servers and people are still complaining about having problems logging in cause of server load. YOur littel interent cafe story was hilarious also......that statement would mean Lineage 2 probably has only 20 active subscribers as opposed to 2 million.
Also on SOE adding content to SWG.....then calling it an expansion. They added SPACE , they also added new planets in rage of the wookies. These arent patches guys and expect to pay for them. It cost them time and money to develop these expanions. And if you werent paying for it...you would get patches any monkey could come up with.
Firstly I play in Europe, but I am well aware how many servers they have in the US and the EU. But I NEVER disputed those numbers, EVER.
Secondly; Little internet story? What I spoke about is clearly fact. I did NOT say HOW many subs WoW has in China, nor how many Lineage has in Korea. I stated how subs work out there and that you cannot PROVE how many they have.
Quoted from: http://www.mmogchart.com/
Lineage: The Blood Pledge has been a gaming phenomenon in South Korea for years, and has since been exported, with somewhat lesser success, to China, Japan, Taiwan, and the United States. Some press reports will say Lineage has over 4 million subscribers. Lineage actually has a variety of different pricing schemes, and many players access the game via Internet cybercafes rather than a more traditional monthly subscription. The numbers I have chosen to use are the monthly access numbers, which I feel are the most directly comparable to other monthly subscription MMOGs. As of March 2005, Lineage has just under 2 million such users worldwide, but only 7,623 subscribers in the United States.
An active sub as you understand it, and someone that logs to play with a game card, maybe a few times a week, or NOT the same thing. Can YOU verify those access numbers? I sure can't. I take such info, and ALL press releases with a pinch of salt.
Seriously if you logged in or even saw how many servers they have to run.....you would believe. Not to mention , that many servers and people are still complaining about having problems logging in cause of server load. YOur littel interent cafe story was hilarious also......that statement would mean Lineage 2 probably has only 20 active subscribers as opposed to 2 million.
Also on SOE adding content to SWG.....then calling it an expansion. They added SPACE , they also added new planets in rage of the wookies. These arent patches guys and expect to pay for them. It cost them time and money to develop these expanions. And if you werent paying for it...you would get patches any monkey could come up with.
Firstly I play in Europe, but I am well aware how many servers they have in the US and the EU. But I NEVER disputed those numbers, EVER.
Secondly; Little internet story? What I spoke about is clearly fact. I did NOT say HOW many subs WoW has in China, nor how many Lineage has in Korea. I stated how subs work out there and that you cannot PROVE how many they have.
Quoted from: http://www.mmogchart.com/
Lineage: The Blood Pledge has been a gaming phenomenon in South Korea for years, and has since been exported, with somewhat lesser success, to China, Japan, Taiwan, and the United States. Some press reports will say Lineage has over 4 million subscribers. Lineage actually has a variety of different pricing schemes, and many players access the game via Internet cybercafes rather than a more traditional monthly subscription. The numbers I have chosen to use are the monthly access numbers, which I feel are the most directly comparable to other monthly subscription MMOGs. As of March 2005, Lineage has just under 2 million such users worldwide, but only 7,623 subscribers in the United States.
An active sub as you understand it, and someone that logs to play with a game card, maybe a few times a week, or NOT the same thing. Can YOU verify those access numbers? I sure can't. I take such info, and ALL press releases with a pinch of salt.
You disputed the 4 million totall and thats what im getting at. Also the chart that im well aware of is from July after they hit 2 mill. It has not been updated, though he said he would be working on it asap.
WORLD OF WARCRAFT
Launched in November 2004, this is Blizzards much-anticipated entry into the MMOG market. The early data points on the chart represent reasonable estimates of worldwide subscriptions based upon the limited data Blizzard provided regarding North America accounts (750,000) and boxes sold. In February 2005 I estimated WoW had some 1.25 million subscribers worldwide; in March 2005, Blizzard announced WoW had 1.5 million subscribers worldwide. In June 2005, anonymous sources indicate WoW has reached the 2 million subscriber mark, and that number is expected to increase with the recent launch of WoW in China.
.....old numbers. Which mean they want way up with release in China and elsewhere.
Also Lineage and Lineage 2 are 2 different games made by the same company. Of course im sure your well aware of that. And Im well aware of what an active sub is and what isnt.
Only point im making here is they have 4 million which you dispute.....Blizzard isnt making this stuff up as they go along. You can reference your chart to reassure you when he puts up his new findings which so far have been right along with what BLizzard reports.
I'm really starting to get sick of these Eve-Online players at this point. Everytime someone makes a thread. We get at least 1 person. That just has to bring up Eve-Online. That one thread the guy made joking about it was funny. Now though I'm starting to see what he meant. Come on guys give it a rest. If people want to find out about Eve-Online. They will, they don't need you jumping in every thread created going "eve this" or "eve that".
PS: Dear OP, please never start another thread again. At least until you have something logical to say. Your post is pure rubbish, and when you get called on it. You start insulting people by calling them "kids" and "noobs"? Yeah, real mature there.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Sorry if I ever brought up EvE online and it hurt your feelings. I only do it if it's relevant, if it happened that DAoC did something that someone said didn't exist I would've posted that, its kind of just coincidence. Because I love all games, but if a certain game does something like not make me pay for an expansion, and someone says "every game makes you pay for an expansion" I can correct them by pointing out one that doesnt, and add in my experience as proof. I'm not a fanboi, I just like people to know what else is out there, and if they say something that is statistically wrong, I'm going to point it out due to the fact that lots of people read this forum. And I rant, so its hard for me to make one sentenced responses.
(Didn't mean to offend by bringing the game up, it just always happens that someone brings up something that I've seen them do, and says it hasn't been done.)
*This is by Volkmar* You should jump on him too
To date, EVE is the only game that had a free expansion (i do not count the DAoC PvP revamp as an expansion but as an update), but that's because of their unique business model. They do not need 100000s of players to survive, their own base is enough to cover their expenses, fund some development and pay for their monthly pay. CCP is a quite small company and they do not need shelf space either as EVE is distributed by internet and has on internet their best source of advertisement (just look up and chances are you see a EVE banner).
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
I said that all games make you pay for expansions. Because frankly that is true. 90% of western mmo's make you pay for expansions. I also explained why Eve makes it free. 1. You pay more in the month. 2. You got about 70% less content in a Eve expansion than in a expansion for EQ2, Wow and so on. 3. Eve expansions are only new skills, items, tech levelsm, gameplay functions, wallpapers with planets and some new ships. Making them takes about 90% less time than making it for Wow etc. You get what you pay for.
I'm really starting to get sick of these Eve-Online players at this point. Everytime someone makes a thread. We get at least 1 person. That just has to bring up Eve-Online. That one thread the guy made joking about it was funny. Now though I'm starting to see what he meant. Come on guys give it a rest. If people want to find out about Eve-Online. They will, they don't need you jumping in every thread created going "eve this" or "eve that".
PS: Dear OP, please never start another thread again. At least until you have something logical to say. Your post is pure rubbish, and when you get called on it. You start insulting people by calling them "kids" and "noobs"? Yeah, real mature there.
ROFL, yeah I thought that post about EVE was right on and truely funny. Everytime......someone hypes EVE. IT doesnt bother me.....but is starting to get annoying. Im pretty sure EVE players would get tired of reading posts about, hey TRY WOW! in theyre EVE forums.
I'm really starting to get sick of these Eve-Online players at this point. Everytime someone makes a thread. We get at least 1 person. That just has to bring up Eve-Online. That one thread the guy made joking about it was funny. Now though I'm starting to see what he meant. Come on guys give it a rest. If people want to find out about Eve-Online. They will, they don't need you jumping in every thread created going "eve this" or "eve that".
PS: Dear OP, please never start another thread again. At least until you have something logical to say. Your post is pure rubbish, and when you get called on it. You start insulting people by calling them "kids" and "noobs"? Yeah, real mature there.
ROFL, yeah I thought that post about EVE was right on and truely funny. Everytime......someone hypes EVE. IT doesnt bother me.....but is starting to get annoying. Im pretty sure EVE players would get tired of reading posts about, hey TRY WOW! in theyre EVE forums.
LOL , no sooner had i posted my above post and someone had allready posted about eve in another wow thread. Highly annoying!
WAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So is your speling.
Back to the thread, Blizzard isn't money hungry, you think this expansion was just done by their existing devs in their spare time? No. It takes a new team of devs, meetings, consultations, artwork and concepts from inside and outside artists and programmers. Proabably tens of thousands of hours from the president of the company down to the lowliest paid testers.
If they didn't charge for the expansion they would probably go bankrupt. Expansions cost big bucks, and people might hate it, you just never know and they can lose money even with charging for it.
If you look at the scope of the expansion, you will be happy to pay for it: it's gonna be a whopper!
Grammar, not grammer. Sorry could not resist that.
No! Guy above me beat me to it! Not fair!
I would wonder if maybe the guys at CCP did a little market research and found that their players wouldn't pay for an expansion. And to keep the game going their decision was to release the stuff for free and tell you they love you. Isn't love beautiful? Especially when businesses give you stuff for "free".
Do you think that making an expansion for EVE costs as much as for WoW? I like the game but it's just some ships, some rocks, and some big balls floating in space. It's really just battle of the spreadsheets with some floating balls.
(Oh and a really cool soundtrack)
Before you get mad, breathe. I play EVE too.
Didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, or hype anything. If I was hyping anyone it was the devs at CCP. And I'm not on WoW's site forums, so I didn't see the problem of mentioning another game that does what WoW doesn't.
And no I don't know all the marketing facts that go into why expansions are free or not. I was just pointing out that I didn't pay for the one I got with Eve. If you look in an earlier post I said that I didn't mind paying for an expansion, and I have in the past. I simply pointed out that not "every" game has expansions that you have to pay for.
Again the expansion in WoW of course isn't necessary and it's meant for the highest of level players, but I think it would simply be a nice gesture on Blizzard's part to put out an expansion that didn't cost their players a thing. And yes it probably costs quite a bit, but I hardly think it would cost enough to hurt them at all.
Anyway off the topic of Eve. Since it hurts peoples eyes to read the name, I rephrase my comment with "Yes I have heard of a game that had an expansion that the players didn't pay for and I thought it was pretty cool of the devs to do that."
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
Let me tell the Blizzard fanboys a little story.
I am playin since the "ZX Spectrum era" and trust me, i know what i'm talking about.
How many of you played Warcraft I ? It was a fantastic game for its time. Bought mine which was on 4 or 6 1.44MB diskettes. It was absolutly addictive. I've played with my friends in multiplayer using a Serial Cable. A orc's Demon hitting a human church was something that i will never forget.
Then there was Diablo I, Starcraft, Diablo II, Warcraft II, and then Warcraft III. All absolutly superb games. After Warcraft III, The Frozen Throne expansion, Blizzard was my religion. All their games were perfect.
Making such beatifull games helped Blizzard earn money. And it was NOT from a monthly fee. Yet services such as Battle.net: Diablo II, Starcraft, Warcraft III still exists and they existed way before WoW (so dont try to argue that WoW's fees are keeping Diablo II Battle Net servers running).
A beautifull Non MMO game can be profitable and can keep online servers up. It is true that content isnt added at the same rate as for a MMO, but thats where montly fee makes the difference.
To continue my story, Blizzard, after the release of Warcraft III (+ expansion) was the most respected and known game company in the world. It was Vivendi's (blizzard's "boss") only profitable department.
No wonder World Of Warcraft was one of the most anticipated game in the world and history. I was one of the millions that checked the WoW's site daily thirsty for some new info about the game. You CANNOT imagine my disappointment when finally WoW was out
. It is a cheap DAOC clone with crap game mechanics. The only thing that made me play it for a few days was the familiar Warcraft universe that was so close to my heart from playing WC3. After few day, i couldnt take it anymore so i left and returned to the one and only: Warcraft III.
I think WoW's HUGE subscription database exists because of the PREVIOUS games that were pure gems. Diablo fans, starcraft fans, warcraft fans, all bought WoW and start playing. It was a new game from their loved company. Some played cuz they've already paid for it, some played cuz it was something new and they hadnt consider any alternative and some even like it, imagine that.
WoW's succes is based on the fame Blizzard had due to their other games, games created by ppl that left the company and that is showing up. Blizzard is not what it was before and i cannot expect any future games from them to be at least good. WoW is a bad clone (i'm referring to the game mechanics) who has a good part that doesnt make it a complete failure: a beautifull universe with an imersive history.
If you say an expansion of a MMO (subscription based) game cannot be free due to company bills, etc., you are completly wrong. The only reason an expansion costs money is for pure profit (why not make 10 million if we can). It is a good thing in a free market (the desire to make profit), however you miss a point. What if the expansion makes ppl leave just because the expansion has a price ? What if the curent playerbase is reduced from 4 million to 3 million ? And what if a free expansion would attract more players ? What if a free expansion would make the subscription number reach 5 million ? Wouldnt be more profitable to have a free expansion with 5 million subscribers then with a 30$ expansion with a 3 million subscribers ?? I think Blizzard's marketing department "is fading away too" !
PS: Indeed, CCP releases free expansions for their Eve Online with the result of a constant growth in the subscription database. And rest assured Eve Online and CCP will still be on the market when WoW would be laying underground right next to Asheron's Call !
PS2: Please forgive my grammar and spelling mistake. I am not an english native.
Thank you.
and you are mmorpg hungry. see the logic?
Blizzard are the Pimps to the WoW money whore.
They'll take anyones money ,dont care how long you stay, no CS , shallow , and in the end unsatisfying . Oh and you'll probably feel guilty that you played it at one time.
It can only last so long anyway. ALl those 12 year olds should grow up eventually.. and if theyre not 12 then the ones who act 12 SHOULD grow up.
OK WoW haters, we know you don't like the game. A week can't go by with one of you starting a new topic just to start the same discussion over and over agian.
You either like the game or not but please don't come to the WORLD OF WARCRAFT BOARDS just to complain about a game that you don't like.
Go play a game you do like instead of talking about one you don't.
I know the original poster didn't mean to start a anti-WoW topic but it has rapidly turned into one.
read my sig properly and you will see that im not a wow hater but a player!
There could be something to be said that people feel the need to make it known that they hate the game.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
read my sig properly and you will see that im not a wow hater but a player!
If you read my post carefully, I said I know you didn't mean for it to turn into a anti-WoW post but it eventually became one. No offense to you.
Just other people try to take a discussion about Blizzard's motives and turn into a fanboy fight (Like some one said earlier, the Eve Online players really need to lay off. If Eve is so great go play it and stop wasting your time on talking about a, in your words, crappy game.
Not defending anything, just posting the counterpoint. If WoW is so great, stop defending it against all these fanbois and go play it.
(This post is all in fun. Don't take it as flaming)
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
I'm just an ex Blizzard fan dissapointed by the way WoW is. That is all. I still fermly belive that warcraft III is one of the best games ever. That game makes me play in my spare time for more then few years now.
Eve is different and for different ppl. I dont need to flame at WoW just to make Eve looks better because they compete on different targets.
I hope the ex-employes that made new companies will teach Blizzard's current leadership a lesson.
I cant wait to see how Hellgate: London will be like. Even if its not a MMO, it seems promising.
This thread is pointless. They have already given much more than most MMOs through updates (battlegrounds, instances, etc.) and they will keep doing so. The expansion isnt free because it adds 2 races, a class, many instances, and entire new island. I mean come on think of all the models, sounds, etc. Most people cant even download all that. Someone has to be paid for this work they are doing and personally I think Blizzard is fair.
They provide a solid content filled game and ur whining about another 30 bucks or so. Pay it if you want the extremly huge expansion or dont if u wanna stick with playing the old game.
Please stop crying.
To the OP:
You're an idiot. Blizzard has offered more free content in their patches than any MMO I have ever seen. I don't even play WoW anymore, I found it got boring and pointless, but you should still be able to see the value in spending $50 on an expansion. Name 1 game that has offered more free content thant WoW, and in addition free expansion packs containing months of work by employees. Be embarassed.
EDIT: Reading through this whole topic I'd like to add how funny I think it iis that Aseenus is still trying to defend himself after getting dominated countless times. Go away, dont complain about MMORPG's in MMORPG forums if you don't understand the concepts of how the games make money. If I wasn't lazy I'd give you a link to a shitty free MMORPG and tell you that's where you belong.